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All of the design choices in STP were extremely lazy. I think others have brought up how the Borg Cube is just kind of bland corridors. I think there's only one point where we even see the alcoves at all. The La Sirena is just very blank and featureless. How much time do they spend in Picard's holo-office instead of an actual room?
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Apr 27, 2020 01:07
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I think the Sirena is fine for what it needed to be: an inglamorous, nondescript "blue collar" sort of ship that is about as far as you can get from the capital starship to which Picard is accustomed. It's not supposed to be a "hero ship" or anything iconic, it's supposed to be rather unremarkable. The cube was alright, somewhere in between the TNG and Voyager design philosophies on the Borg, though they admittedly could have done more with it. I'm kind of glad they ditched all the random hoses and fog, though, which I always thought looked silly.
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Apr 27, 2020 01:25
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I get the sense the Picard producers were like "okay, so we have to depict a future that looks like TNG but slightly more futuristic, but also way more futuristic than Discovery, but also LESS futuristic than the next season of Discovery, in a way that doesnt piss of fans like Discovery did... Aaah, gently caress it. Keep the scope small, let's not even get into what Starfleet and all that looks like."
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Apr 27, 2020 02:26
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Pinterest Mom posted:They tried to do a genocide. To a bunch of racist fucks who have determined that the universe at large is incompatible with them, without realizing that they themselves are now incompatible with the universe. The Quickening convinced me that the Dominion is actually worse than the Borg. Unless assimilation is Literally That One Sequence From Quake 4, it’s gotta be better than an entire lifetime of Space AIDS. But I like to think the Borg are nice enough guys to give you an aesthetic before ripping your flesh to ribbons. TheDiceMustRoll posted:I think a big problem of it was that Star Trek's original idea was like: "The future" + "But also written for TV so it needs to be exciting". There are limits to this vision, because it was brought to you by old straight white guys trying to show how they’re woke but only up to 1975 standards. But to me the core thing of Trek vs Dune or BSG or whatever is not being afraid to slam an anti-reactionary allegory in your face. Even the DS9 writers who found the vision of tolerance to be antithetical to good writing had the occasional progressive moral episode. Why it fell apart, that’s much more complex. Probably some mix of cynicism taking hold, Star Wars lifting off in popularity, box office demands, and the fact that Star Trek is ultimately a business and Anti-capitalism wasn’t a big thing pre-online (“Bar Association” really got away with a lot since Reagan was hardly a decade ago.) The progressive vision also fell apart when there were no queer people visible in Starfleet at the same time that the US was debating Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. You can thank big titty lover Rick Berman for that. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 02:41
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Reusing random off the shelf stuff is a staple of SciFi, but having been looking at them recently I love how these containers at the back are just rainwater tanks from a hardware store.
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Apr 27, 2020 04:21
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La Sirena isn't featureless, it's painted like Eddie Van Halen's guitar! 
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Apr 27, 2020 05:08
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I get the sense the Picard producers were like "okay, so we have to depict a future that looks like TNG but slightly more futuristic, but also way more futuristic than Discovery, but also LESS futuristic than the next season of Discovery, in a way that doesnt piss of fans like Discovery did... Aaah, gently caress it. Keep the scope small, let's not even get into what Starfleet and all that looks like."
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Apr 27, 2020 05:10
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Craptacular! posted:Star Trek’s original idea was, “the future is this wild new non-judgmental place where tolerance is the norm and intolerance is relatively minor or limited to the intolerant.” People are racist, but they’re racist to Klingons because their culture is tribal warrior people and the Federation views tribalism as outdated and conflict as a total last resort. A lot of Star Trek's idea, honestly, was just, "What if Great Society Liberalism but in space?' The Klingons weren't bad because they were a tribal warrior people (they weren't a tribal warrior people until TNG's reimagining of them). They were bad because they were the space Soviet Union....an aggressive totalitarian empire that enslaved the people they ruled over. The Federation was post-racial, but that wasn't particularly uncommon. You saw that in a lot of 1960s and 70s science fiction...the idea that we would eventually solve the problem of racism and racial hatred and recognize our common humanity.
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Apr 27, 2020 06:02
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It has been a while since I have really watched it, but it seems to me like TOS was just a brainy space western and all the utopian stuff was just the backdrop. Then people latched onto the backdrop and by the 90's that became its central conceit.
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Apr 27, 2020 06:41
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lol people like gene roddenberry the TMP novelization is good for insight into that not good as in like, a good book but you know what I mean TheDiceMustRoll posted:And Star Trek doesn't really feel like they're interested in talking about the future, it seems to be just a setting people are exploiting in a very nihilistic way for money. bingo. excuse me since this is depressing I'm going to do shots of bourbon and stumble off to my next adventure *star trek theme plays* arent I so loving relatable fellow kids
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Apr 27, 2020 06:59
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Craptacular! posted:Star Trek’s original idea was, “the future is this wild new non-judgmental place where tolerance is the norm and intolerance is relatively minor or limited to the intolerant.” People are racist, but they’re racist to Klingons because their culture is tribal warrior people and the Federation views tribalism as outdated and conflict as a total last resort. Honestly I think it "fell apart" because most of the chatter and feedback I saw in the 2000s from my research into old poo poo from the past is that most people weren't really like "Yeah this is great. Rubber foreheads." they were usually complaining about the lack of good special effects and weird foreheads being the only thing that made people alien. Farscape had tons of cool aliens. Enterprise was awful, and people just went ape poo poo for CGI in the beginning of the 2000s, Star Wars leading the charge by having the whole drat movie be greenscreened. It was a pretty common complaint about TNG that they had just the one village set. People are just driven by a need for the next shiny and flashy thing. But you're very correct that Star Trek also fell way behind on its progressive reputation (not overly deserved but propped up by CBS telling everyone that Star Trek Was Progressive) by refusing to put LBGT people into a show until 2017. From 2005 - 2017 there was a shitload of shows that went around breaking ground and kicking rear end and doing progressive things. loving Brooklyn nine Nine is ridiculously "woke" compared to Star Trek nowadays. Drink-Mix Man posted:It has been a while since I have really watched it, but it seems to me like TOS was just a brainy space western and all the utopian stuff was just the backdrop. Then people latched onto the backdrop and by the 90's that became its central conceit. It's not "brainy" but yeah. The whole "no money" thing was in STIV and Gene liked it. Epicurius posted:A lot of Star Trek's idea, honestly, was just, "What if Great Society Liberalism but in space?' The Klingons weren't bad because they were a tribal warrior people (they weren't a tribal warrior people until TNG's reimagining of them). They were bad because they were the space Soviet Union....an aggressive totalitarian empire that enslaved the people they ruled over. The Federation was post-racial, but that wasn't particularly uncommon. You saw that in a lot of 1960s and 70s science fiction...the idea that we would eventually solve the problem of racism and racial hatred and recognize our common humanity. Honestly Star Trek TOS has this weird obsession with "Two sides, both are wrong, and both need to learn to be friends" TheDiceMustRoll fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 07:17
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:Honestly Star Trek TOS has this weird obsession with "Two sides, both are wrong, and both need to learn to be friends" Iirc, a common thread in TOS is basically “none of this bullshit you’re fixated on actually matters, you’ve gotta look forward if you want to survive,” which kind of fits with how, even in TOS, it was an established setting detail that Earth nearly wiped itself clean multiple times before finally getting their poo poo together.
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Apr 27, 2020 08:32
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It's a Cold War narrative, very much "hey can we not die in nuclear fire over ideological differences please"
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Apr 27, 2020 08:42
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quote:Why are they on the Death Star?
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Apr 27, 2020 09:00
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Lemony posted:I really dislike the Picard ship. I finished the show with absolutely no sense of it as a ship. I literally can't remember it's name. The main set is a box full of lens flare. Half the scenes on it are the chateau set. I never feel like they're on a cool spaceship, just a dumb glowy set. I assume the big empty space is supposed to for cargo, but we never actually see it used for that. La Sirena is actually a single set too! They just never actually used that fact. They really should've a) had better direction to show the space and b) maybe had an event where they pick something up to go in the big cargo area and give it some color. And yeah, all the use of the holochateau damaged the feeling of the ship as a space. Pastamania posted:Why are they on the Death Star? That's the warp core. It's off in that shot because they crashed but normally it's glowing, like, soft blue at impulse and bright yellow when they're at warp or fighting or stuff, I think? Something like that. It gets brighter when the drama turns up. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 09:09
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:loving Brooklyn nine Nine is ridiculously "woke" compared to Star Trek nowadays. I don't know why you call that out in a way that makes it sound surprising, it's been a fairly strong tenet of the show since day 1.
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Apr 27, 2020 12:00
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mehall posted:I don't know why you call that out in a way that makes it sound surprising, it's been a fairly strong tenet of the show since day 1. Yeah I dont know why I did it either, but I hope that my point that Star Trek is bizarrely conservative sunk in
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Apr 27, 2020 12:08
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Wasn't Rick Berman the guy who forced Terry Farrell out after she rejected his advances too?
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Apr 27, 2020 13:37
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multijoe posted:Wasn't Rick Berman the guy who forced Terry Farrell out after she rejected his advances too? What is it with Ricks?
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Apr 27, 2020 13:53
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:Honestly I think it "fell apart" because most of the chatter and feedback I saw in the 2000s from my research into old poo poo from the past is that most people weren't really like "Yeah this is great. Rubber foreheads." they were usually complaining about the lack of good special effects and weird foreheads being the only thing that made people alien. Farscape had tons of cool aliens. Enterprise was awful, and people just went ape poo poo for CGI in the beginning of the 2000s, Star Wars leading the charge by having the whole drat movie be greenscreened. It was a pretty common complaint about TNG that they had just the one village set. People are just driven by a need for the next shiny and flashy thing. I don't think it was so much about shiny and flashy as the fact that Star Trek no longer felt like it was straining against the limits of TV to show the future. So much of the genesis of TNG, for better or worse, was around building the lore of what society could be by then. Star Wars was the science fantasy, and while not at all hard sci fi, Trek was the more "realistic" of the two. Other shows like Farscape started doing more alien things, and turned Trek from the best possible depiction of our future into a stage play. quote:But you're very correct that Star Trek also fell way behind on its progressive reputation (not overly deserved but propped up by CBS telling everyone that Star Trek Was Progressive) by refusing to put LBGT people into a show until 2017. From 2005 - 2017 there was a shitload of shows that went around breaking ground and kicking rear end and doing progressive things. loving Brooklyn nine Nine is ridiculously "woke" compared to Star Trek nowadays. This is spot on.
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Apr 27, 2020 13:56
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I'm finally watching Farscape through after only ever seeing a handful of episodes when it first came out (I'd gone off sci-fi a bit back then and the show just didn't click with me), and I'm actually really loving it this time round. The wierd-rear end alien designs are amazing, and Pilot in particular has to be hands down one of the greatest animatronics ever put in a show. I just watched the episode where they cut off one of his limbs. Fuckers 
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Apr 27, 2020 16:26
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Drunk in Space posted:I'm finally watching Farscape through after only ever seeing a handful of episodes when it first came out (I'd gone off sci-fi a bit back then and the show just didn't click with me), and I'm actually really loving it this time round. The wierd-rear end alien designs are amazing, and Pilot in particular has to be hands down one of the greatest animatronics ever put in a show. There's one episode where they have to like, tear off pilot's leg or something painful, can't remember what exactly, but I've never felt so bad for a puppet since Gonzo
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Apr 27, 2020 16:29
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Yep, see my edit. I hated them so much for that!
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Apr 27, 2020 16:29
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Drunk in Space posted:Yep, see my edit. I hated them so much for that! Haha that's hilarious, must be a major grievance of most Farscape viewers.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:30
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the muppet's CD rom
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Apr 27, 2020 16:34
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MikeJF posted:La Sirena is actually a single set too! They just never actually used that fact. I didn't know that! That's actually kinda sad then. Knowing that, I think maybe the issue is that they never seem to show the characters moving from one area of the ship to another in a clean shot, so you never feel like the parts are actually connected. Plus I really hate all the sharp lens flare lighting. The whole ship feels super sterile and dim. It doesn't feel like a place where someone lives and works. Again, the ship in Firefly has stuff like the mess being painted up to make it feel like someone actually wanted it to feel more comfortable and cheery. I feel like it makes even less sense with the captain clearly being a huge dork for old stuff, but he doesn't have any of that crap around his living spaces. Why is that stuff only in his quarters? He's usually the only one aboard, so why not have his hipster stuff all over the place? To be fair to the show, I guess they do establish that he has everything squared away in proper Starfleet fashion.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:48
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La Sirena feels way too open, especially on that upper level.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:59
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Certainly saves time if you can just glance over your shoulder to see if the warp core is about to blow
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Apr 27, 2020 17:42
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I kinda figured it’s meant to be a modular space with room for additions as needed, but because Rios is the only crew most of the interior is still empty. And I imagine being in Starfleet cures you of any pack-rat tendencies, so he doesn’t have much more stuff than fits in his quarters.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:02
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If you all are going to insist on putting a definite article before "La Sirena", at least use Spanish and make it "El La Sirena".
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Apr 27, 2020 18:34
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La Sirena is fine, it shows the Federation basically hitting The Culture levels of technology which means that your ship can just be a series of empty rooms because who the gently caress cares, you have holo emitters that can instantly make every empty space whatever you want it to be.
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Apr 27, 2020 18:48
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multijoe posted:Wasn't Rick Berman the guy who forced Terry Farrell out after she rejected his advances too? He also used a guy outed as a fake Native American in the 70s to plan out Chakotay's backstory. Achoocheemoya!
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Apr 27, 2020 20:51
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A couple interesting tidbits about Discovery season three:Jonathan Frakes posted:Michael Burnham has found a new core, not to mention a new partner in crime. So again, there’s a big tonal shift on that show, less driven by the pain and guilt of her past and more about the magical reunification of the Discovery crew and wherever she went off to. God knows where she went as the Red Angel. So those two things coming back together is very much the theme, and how grateful everyone is and what’s next. It’s got a lot of action-adventure and not so much pain. Also he said that they are doing post-production during lockdown, and as such the composer won't be able to use an actual orchestra. So that could result in a different style of soundtrack unless he just decides to use synthetic orchestral instruments, which can be pretty convincing these days. https://trekmovie.com/2020/04/27/jonathan-frakes-says-star-trek-discovery-season-3-will-be-a-big-tonal-shift-for-the-show/
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Apr 27, 2020 22:30
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Drink-Mix Man posted:A couple interesting tidbits about Discovery season three: A weird electronic soundtrack would be cool and good.
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Apr 27, 2020 22:38
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Drink-Mix Man posted:A couple interesting tidbits about Discovery season three:
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Apr 27, 2020 22:44
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this time things will be different
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Apr 27, 2020 23:08
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Tighclops posted:this time things will be different I believed in Picard. I loving believed. This is not the sexy kind of sadism. I am not into it and Kurtzman must be stopped.
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Apr 27, 2020 23:27
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What if they made a Star Trek where the events of the episodes were largely resolved inside the same episodes and they didn't have to build towards saving the entire Federation from extinction every season? They could even use the format to dedicate whole episodes to exploring individual characters and putting them in strange and interesting situations which, again, don't have to build towards of season arc of saving the Federation of exploding. Does anyone think such a format could work, in Star Trek?
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Apr 27, 2020 23:37
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multijoe posted:What if they made a Star Trek where the events of the episodes were largely resolved inside the same episodes and they didn't have to build towards saving the entire Federation from extinction every season? They could even use the format to dedicate whole episodes to exploring individual characters and putting them in strange and interesting situations which, again, don't have to build towards of season arc of saving the Federation of exploding. Does anyone think such a format could work, in Star Trek? "You're obviously not cut out for this kind of work." - Alex Kurtzman, Akiva Goldsman
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Apr 27, 2020 23:51
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multijoe posted:What if they made a Star Trek where the events of the episodes were largely resolved inside the same episodes and they didn't have to build towards saving the entire Federation from extinction every season? They could even use the format to dedicate whole episodes to exploring individual characters and putting them in strange and interesting situations which, again, don't have to build towards of season arc of saving the Federation of exploding. Does anyone think such a format could work, in Star Trek? Ah, the new Doctor Who issue, which culminated in the destruction of Reality! Itself!
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Apr 27, 2020 23:57
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