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Somfin posted:got me worried that you were actually denying that he was a rapist, but I understand your stance. That’s correct in my case, but I also think most of the thread knows the arguments at this point. In my book it would be more insulting to your intelligence to just reiterate the same stuff over and over again about why I put the premium on “D next to their name, get rid of Trump”—and for me those nine words are shorthand for the other stuff I mentioned. Some people will frame that as “orange man bad” but so be it. I understand you have drawn a line for your vote and everyone needs to decide that for themselves. What I do challenge in the thread generally (not you in particular) is the assumption that I need to feel positively about an individual candidate—let alone feel “excited”—to pull the “D” lever. I’m not excited about taking my trash out, it’s just something I feel the need to do. On that note, I generally avoid trying to see elections as being “about” individual candidates at all, and when the framing is “why does so-and-so deserve to be president” it’s really missing the forest for the trees. This isn’t the finale of the Bachelor, or for that matter the Apprentice. Some array of interests will come out ahead and some won’t. I prefer the array of Democratic interests to Republican interests on the whole and would be hard pressed as of 2020 to think of even a single Republican interest that deserves more power than it has.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:38
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Somfin posted:Like, being afraid of Trump, I understand, I genuinely do. i think that line is somewhere around bloomberg had won the nomination
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Apr 28, 2020 07:50
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Marxalot posted:e: bonus comedy round Biden voted for Scalia among others For anyone reading at home unaware of the history who thinks this is some amazing own, “among others” means the entire senate in 1986 voted unanimously to confirm Scalia, except for two Republicans who weren’t present to vote. Ginsburg was also confirmed without a real fight, 96-3, because at that point in history confirmation fights were the exception rather than the rule. The practice, whether we like it or not, changed as partisanship ramped up for the past 25 years.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:55
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yronic heroism posted:That’s correct in my case, but I also think most of the thread knows the arguments at this point. In my book it would be more insulting to your intelligence to just reiterate the same stuff over and over again about why I put the premium on “D next to their name, get rid of Trump”—and for me those nine words are shorthand for the other stuff I mentioned. Some people will frame that as “orange man bad” but so be it. I understand you have drawn a line for your vote and everyone needs to decide that for themselves. What I do challenge in the thread generally (not you in particular) is the assumption that I need to feel positively about an individual candidate—let alone feel “excited”—to pull the “D” lever. I’m not excited about taking my trash out, it’s just something I feel the need to do. I'd agree with you, but for the breathtaking post-9/11 expansion of the executive branch and its direct authority and control. yronic heroism posted:For anyone reading at home unaware of the history who thinks this is some amazing own, “among others” means the entire senate in 1986 voted unanimously to confirm Scalia, except for two Republicans who weren’t present to vote. Ginsburg was also confirmed without a real fight, 96-3, because at that point in history confirmation fights were the exception rather than the rule. The practice, whether we like it or not, changed as partisanship ramped up for the past 25 years. The fact that we didn't fight this stuff out before is bad, not good.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:59
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Imagine voting voting for the rear end in a top hat who put Clarence Thomas on SCOTUS, destroyed Anita Hill’s reputation, wrote the 1994 Nazi Crime Bill, voted for NAFTA/WTO, voted for the Iraq War, and has always empowered the banks and capital at the expense of labor. Oh, and he literally raped someone, too. And to be proud of it...
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Apr 28, 2020 08:01
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The court itself is a conservative institution by design. Only a single-digit number of cases that are even considered by the court are ever heard. And I'd suspect you'd be hard pressed to find a direct line between the partisan makeup of the court and the decisions that ultimately get made, divorced from a broader social context. It was the liberal court put into place by FDR that banned the Communist Party. Was it due to a neutral adjudication of laws and the weight of complex legal arguments? Or was it because the Communist Party presented a threat at the time and needed to be suppressed? It was obviously the latter, and it was un-banned once that threat passed. It was the Roberts court that legalized same-sex marriage, at that, but unlikely to have ever happened if it wasn't for a long struggle by a social movement making demands and willing, in many cases, to act as a disruptive force for many years. The court IMO is always going to follow public opinion, never lead it, and it won't act in ways that contradict ruling class priorities.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:14
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yronic heroism posted:Again, voting isn’t a morality play. Turning voting into full utilitarianism is pointless too, given that a single vote is meaningless. No one here has any real influence in electing Joe Biden, he's competitive against Trump because old people like him, and if they stop liking him, he won't be competitive against Trump, there's not much else to it.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:17
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For the sake of historical completeness, neither George Bush nor any Senator who voted to confirm Thomas in 1991 are on the ballot this year.Somfin posted:The fact that we didn't fight this stuff out before is bad, not good. I agree because people need to be educated on what a bunch of Republican nominations will do to the court, and there was a time only Republicans focused on it. It’s entirely why I see it as a presidential GE consideration.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:17
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A4R8 posted:Imagine voting voting for the rear end in a top hat who put Clarence Thomas on SCOTUS, destroyed Anita Hill’s reputation, wrote the 1994 Nazi Crime Bill, voted for NAFTA/WTO, voted for the Iraq War, and has always empowered the banks and capital at the expense of labor. Oh, and he literally raped someone, too. On top of then shaming people for disagreeing to vote for that candidate.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:18
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Bidens gonna nominate Condi Rice lol
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Apr 28, 2020 08:20
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yronic heroism posted:For the sake of historical completeness, neither George Bush nor any Senator who voted to confirm Thomas in 1991 are on the ballot this year. I don't trust Biden to do the needful and put an actual lefty judge on the court, when it's so obviously something that the Republicans will demand concessions on, and when the left is being shut out of any influence over the party.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:20
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The bleakest thing about Biden being the nominee is that it solidifies that there is literally no merit in the Democratic Party. The third of four recent nominees who voted for the war in Iraq. A pathological liar who's been on the wrong side of everything for decades, and no repercussions whatsoever for it. None. Zero. gently caress up all you want, it doesn't matter.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:22
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:The court itself is a conservative institution by design. Only a single-digit number of cases that are even considered by the court are ever heard. And I'd suspect you'd be hard pressed to find a direct line between the partisan makeup of the court and the decisions that ultimately get made, divorced from a broader social context. It was the liberal court put into place by FDR that banned the Communist Party. Was it due to a neutral adjudication of laws and the weight of complex legal arguments? Or was it because the Communist Party presented a threat at the time and needed to be suppressed? It was obviously the latter, and it was un-banned once that threat passed. It was the Roberts court that legalized same-sex marriage, at that, but unlikely to have ever happened if it wasn't for a long struggle by a social movement making demands and willing, in many cases, to act as a disruptive force for many years. The court IMO is always going to follow public opinion, never lead it, and it won't act in ways that contradict ruling class priorities. Public opinion hates gerrymandering. Public opinion is pro choice. Public opinion is pro union. Public opinion doesn’t say corporations are people. These are all areas the Roberts court has certainly not followed opinion, and no progressive legislation is safe without the judicial branch wrested from the Federalist society. Pedro De Heredia posted:Turning voting into full utilitarianism is pointless too, given that a single vote is meaningless. A single vote is a small probability chance at being the tipping point vote in a swing state (and a much more minuscule probability anywhere else). The catch is that it’s a small probability with a huge payout—namely which party controls the country. People sink their money into the lottery with worse odds. Now, the argument goes that we could find something more productive to do than voting for president in the time it takes to go vote, but if you were going to vote for Congress or even your city council or water board you are already in the voting booth and it takes zero effort to fill out the presidential line too.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:29
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Raskolnikov38 posted:mine is supposedly getting mailed on the first so maybe that’s when they’re getting sent out in bulk Here's hoping! I'm going to save it in case this thing keeps going for a little while.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:35
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Somfin posted:I don't trust Biden to do the needful and put an actual lefty judge on the court, when it's so obviously something that the Republicans will demand concessions on, and when the left is being shut out of any influence over the party. The left had no influence when Clinton (who was more conservative than Biden) nominated RBG and Breyer, still turned out okay. And the left has more influence now than when Obama nominated Kagan and Sotomayor, which also turned out okay. We know what kinds of justices get nominated under each party. It’s not a surprise. And since I am volunteering/contributing to get as many Republican Senators defeated as possible, I will hold out hope they won’t be in any position to get SCOTUS concessions in the minority. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 08:35
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yronic heroism posted:The left had no influence when Clinton (who was more conservative than Biden) nominated RBG and Breyer, still turned out okay. And the left has more influence than when Obama nominated Kagan and Sotomayor, which also turned out okay. We know what kinds of justices get nominated under each party. It’s not a surprise. And since I am volunteering/contributing to get as many Republican Senators defeated as possible, I will hold out hope they won’t be in any position to get SCOTUS concessions in the minority. Nah, we all remember the Garland debacle, and we’re not gullible enough to think that Biden will do any better. Thanks for the offer though!
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Apr 28, 2020 08:40
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Marching orders are out, Bidens done, gone within a week and that's why all the primaries just got pulled.
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Apr 28, 2020 08:59
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yronic heroism posted:The left had no influence when Clinton (who was more conservative than Biden) nominated RBG and Breyer, still turned out okay. And the left has more influence now than when Obama nominated Kagan and Sotomayor, which also turned out okay. We know what kinds of justices get nominated under each party. It’s not a surprise. And since I am volunteering/contributing to get as many Republican Senators defeated as possible, I will hold out hope they won’t be in any position to get SCOTUS concessions in the minority. In defense of either of the Clintons; I'm unaware of them calling for the death penalty to be used against drug offenders.
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Apr 28, 2020 09:03
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yronic heroism posted:A single vote is a small probability chance at being the tipping point vote in a swing state (and a much more minuscule probability anywhere else). The catch is that it’s a small probability with a huge payout—namely which party controls the country. People sink their money into the lottery with worse odds. Now, the argument goes that we could find something more productive to do than voting for president in the time it takes to go vote, but if you were going to vote for Congress or even your city council or water board you are already in the voting booth and it takes zero effort to fill out the presidential line too. Hell, if you're already in the booth you might as well vote for Howie Hawkins. A single vote is a small probability chance at being the tipping point vote in the Greens getting 5% and $100m in Federal funding (and a much more miniscule probability of winning the Electoral college). Plus that would actually be a positive outcome for the country and world, unlike a Biden presidency
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Apr 28, 2020 09:37
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yronic heroism posted:A single vote is a small probability chance at being the tipping point vote in a swing state (and a much more minuscule probability anywhere else). The catch is that it’s a small probability with a huge payout—namely which party controls the country. People sink their money into the lottery with worse odds. Now, the argument goes that we could find something more productive to do than voting for president in the time it takes to go vote, but if you were going to vote for Congress or even your city council or water board you are already in the voting booth and it takes zero effort to fill out the presidential line too. Yeah, so you all gotta remember that if you vote for Biden there's a small chance that you'll end up being personally responsible for rewarding a rapist with the highest office in the country. Do you really want that on your conscience?
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Apr 28, 2020 09:45
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The small probability chance is functionally zero.
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Apr 28, 2020 09:51
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All I'm saying is that if the existence of said chance is enough to impart a moral duty then it is also enough to impart a moral responsibility. So could you really live with yourself being responsible for sending a rapist to the White House and thus establishing that the right to not be sexually assaulted is just some meaningless tertiary concern when push comes to shove?
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Apr 28, 2020 10:01
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Just came in here to remind folks that Deepwater Horizon happened a decade and 8 days ago. An ecological disaster of untold proportions that still affects the Gulf Coast today. And BP still exists. There’s still drilling in the Gulf, but I believe there was a moratorium on new wells at the time. That is the same kind of environmental stewardship I would expect from a Biden presidency. If not worse. In case there are people who may not recall that huge event that occurred in our lifetime.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:10
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The more I try to rectify this in my mind I just keep coming back to the rape allegation. I'm trying so hard to find a way to vote for this guy but I just can't get past that. There is something so disqualifying about a person that thinks that it is acceptable to just take what you want from someone with no regard for them. I've tried thinking "well we can get him to move left", and "he is slightly better than trump", and even "its the immigrants that are at stake here" but then I realize its all bullshit and we couldn't even get someone that clears one of the lowest bars. Didn't sexually assault someone is a pretty easy feat to accomplish.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:15
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Come on Buttigieg, shiv Biden and retract your endorsement. I'll even stop calling you ratboy!
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Apr 28, 2020 10:17
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Demiurge4 posted:Come on Buttigieg, shiv Biden and retract your endorsement. I'll even stop calling you ratboy! i'd still call him a rat, but like the cute one you have as a pet, not the ratling gunner rat
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Apr 28, 2020 10:22
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yronic heroism posted:For the sake of historical completeness, neither George Bush nor any Senator who voted to confirm Thomas in 1991 are on the ballot this year. I guess the democrats really should have taken these elections seriously. They could have worked to get people that wouldn't be so distasteful to people in their party. They probably knew about the sexual assault. The establishment could have put their thumb on the scale for someone else. This is what they chose. Telling a bunch of people they are wrong for having a conscience isn't really that good a look. You should be looking at the people that keep giving us choices like this. It's the Media and the establishment dems shaping the boomers views with propaganda. The real question is will this change before it is too late?
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Apr 28, 2020 10:24
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Somfin posted:I don't trust Biden to do the needful and put an actual lefty judge on the court, when it's so obviously something that the Republicans will demand concessions on, and when the left is being shut out of any influence over the party. You are right. I see a serious amount of pro corporate/ pro finance judges coming in our future. Chances are the republicans won't let him seat anyone anyway unless we win the senate, which will be nice.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:26
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yronic heroism posted:Point by point: I really question how likely HR 1 is to pass. You might remember the 63 times that the Republicans passed a bill through the House to repeal and replace Obamacare, which they of course successfully followed through on when they had control of the House, Senate and White House. It's a lot easier to get full votes through on measures like these when you know they won't actually go anywhere. Willo567 posted:You don't think Trump will do the same drat thing as Biden will do when it comes to social security? This is from this morning, so forever ago, but I did want to address it. I expect that both Biden and Trump will attempt to cut social security at some point. The difference is that with Biden in the White House the democrats will support that measure, presumably as part of some Very Important Grand Bargain, and with Trump in the White House they're more likely to oppose it. Only Nixon could go to China, only a Democrat can slash social security and medicare. Putting Biden in charge causes a whole host of issues, but a big one is that it actively makes the Democratic party worse.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:26
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StealthArcher posted:Marching orders are out, Bidens done, gone within a week and that's why all the primaries just got pulled. Things are just so absurd at this point that this seems likely.
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Apr 28, 2020 10:28
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Demiurge4 posted:Come on Buttigieg, shiv Biden and retract your endorsement. I'll even stop calling you ratboy! I will never stop calling him ratboy....i still think he looks more like a nutria though
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Apr 28, 2020 10:31
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Phew. I was worried that they'd need or want my vote this election.
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Apr 28, 2020 11:52
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https://twitter.com/crulge/status/1254855623872622593?s=20 They're about to turn on him in droves.
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Apr 28, 2020 12:38
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Another example of how if they were going to blatantly force through a single candidate, Biden was the absolute worst choice, since he pisses off so many of the demographics that actually matter to the party. Mainly, wealthy white women.
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Apr 28, 2020 12:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Another example of how if they were going to blatantly force through a single candidate, Biden was the absolute worst choice, since he pisses off so many of the demographics that actually matter to the party. Mainly, wealthy white women. he certainly pisses of legit progressive people too.
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Apr 28, 2020 12:53
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ManBoyChef posted:he certainly pisses of legit progressive people too. Well of course, but the party doesn't think they mattter.
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Apr 28, 2020 12:53
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Demiurge4 posted:https://twitter.com/crulge/status/1254855623872622593?s=20 With Joe Biden unopposed, #metoo is returning to twitter. The checkmarks are beginning to #believewomen again. Twitter is healing, we are the virus.
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Apr 28, 2020 13:01
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Boywhiz88 posted:Just came in here to remind folks that Deepwater Horizon happened a decade and 8 days ago. An ecological disaster of untold proportions that still affects the Gulf Coast today. And BP still exists. There’s still drilling in the Gulf, but I believe there was a moratorium on new wells at the time. https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1067746578226704384
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Apr 28, 2020 13:02
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I love how proud of it he is, and how he also signed the Paris agreement while pumping billions of crude oil from the ground lol. Can’t wait to see what Biden is gonna do for the oil and gas industry!
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Apr 28, 2020 13:21
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America's shale oil was never, ever profitable and was propped up by government subsidy and requires enormous amounts of technical expertise to get at. What it allowed for was wild speculation that is currently valuing crude oil at negative dollars when the economy shits the bed, which is now.
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Apr 28, 2020 13:24
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