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Sassy Sasquatch posted:Some people might be more interested in the circumstances around the leaks than the leaks themselves? I got some major plot points spoiled already but I don’t feel like reading up more or discussing them without fully knowing the game’s context. honestly in that case it seems like 2 separate threads might be a smart idea, considering one subject doesn't require spoiler tags to discuss Mr. Fortitude posted:The other big problem is that Ellie and Dina are completely innocent and undeserving of Abby's wrath. It makes sense for her to kill Joel but you don't play as Abby until after she kills Joel, so at that point she already has an uphill battle in making players give a poo poo about her. Then she spends the rest of the game going after a girl who literally had no choice in the matter with what the Fireflies were going to do and what Joel did in retaliation and her pregnant lover who literally has done nothing to harm Abby. Abby even going "good" at being told that Dina is pregnant before attempting to slit her throat just throws any sympathy and investment for the new character out of the window. I think you're missing some info from the leaks. Abby lets Ellie go after ambushing them and killing Joel, since she knows Ellie had nothing to do with this. Ellie then spends the rest of the game hunting down and murdering Abby's friends who took part in the ambush which makes Abby come after her
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Apr 28, 2020 13:51
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Booty Pageant posted:for such a hack fraud game that riffs off every other season of walking dead they coulda gone fear the walking dead route Nah. Nomura Remake.
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Apr 28, 2020 13:52
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The leaks if true sound like trash. gently caress the fireflies and their surgeons.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:00
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Drunckmann said a few years ago that the theme of TLOU2 is 'Hate'. I hate it already Neil. Tyvm.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:01
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Also "Hurr everythang bade 5evr" is hack bullshit and I'm entirely sick of it, it's not 'subversive' or 'shocking' or any of the fartsy empty labels people like to try and pretend that tiresome misery porn is and hasn't been for a while.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:07
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Everything about this makes it seem like the studio bought into a lot of the undeserved praise the first game got as this quantum leap for storytelling in games. The first game has excellent presentation - great visuals, believable characters, strong performances, etc. but it also has lots of the same dumb contrivances from the Uncharted series. It's easier to overlook in Uncharted because that series is trying to be a playable pulpy action movie with quips and a happy-go-lucky attitude. It's harder to overlook in The Last of Us since the game takes itself so seriously. With this new game, on paper it would work to have the player character be someone who has a blood feud with Joel, but they would have to be a playable character from the start and the blood feud would have to be revealed very gradually after we've already grown to care about her. If they really do the character swap after she kills Joel then it smacks of overconfidence. Like they think the audience is so in love with this property they can be strung along for anything
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Apr 28, 2020 14:11
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I was one of the weirdos who didn't like the first game at all. Joel was a loathsome prick I hated playing as, but at least that game did the legwork of trying to build empathy for him as a protagonist by showing his trauma, giving him a surrogate kid to care for, and by pitting him against opponents even more callous and incompetent than himself. This game looks like it plans to skip all that and just force you to play as the rear end in a top hat without any of the character-building or emotional manipulation needed to make that kind of thing at all tolerable. Not sure what they're going for with that choice, but it sure sounds lovely!
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Apr 28, 2020 14:14
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am0kgonzo posted:lol And? who cares.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:14
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Onmi posted:And? who cares. Anyone who cares about the medium? Abusing your employees and telling terrible stories shouldn't be a meal ticket in this or any industry. And yeah, it's hardly exclusive to games, but that only makes it more depressing.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:18
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I'm sure TLOU2 will still review pretty well but it does appear to make some decisions that even undiscerning game journalists hate with the downer ending and forced protagonist switch. Naughty Dog must have been confident that their storytelling would carry this because on its face these narrative choices are going to be really unpopular with people.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:18
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I mean media does this all the time. Introduce a character that you loving loathe, but over time does things that make the audience love them more and more until by the end you're actively rooting for this guy you hated at the start. It's slightly different in that you're playing as this character for half the game but it's the same concept, and we're missing hours and hours of story and gameplay that will probably show Abby in a better light. I think the main issue is: is this really a story that needed to be told? I liked the sort of ambiguous ending the 1st one had and dont really think they needed to revisit these characters, especially if they're going to give one of them the Andrew Ryan treatment
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Apr 28, 2020 14:22
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exquisite tea posted:I'm sure TLOU2 will still review pretty well but it does appear to make some decisions that even undiscerning game journalists hate with the downer ending and forced protagonist switch. Naughty Dog must have been confident that their storytelling would carry this because on its face these narrative choices are going to be really unpopular with people. No see, you just don't understand the narrative brilliance of the scene were a jacked adult woman beats the poo poo out of two teenagers and nearly slits one of their throats. This is a harsh world, don't get it? They'll happily brutalize some more women for you if you don't yet get it.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:23
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Gamers love the "badly written HBO drama with a boring hallway shooter in between episodes" genre. This thing will sell like hotcakes and game devs will continue to be abused and refuse to unionize due to decades of pro-corporate propaganda.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:29
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ColdPie posted:Gamers love the "badly written HBO drama with a boring hallway shooter in between episodes" genre. This thing will sell like hotcakes and game devs will continue to be abused and refuse to unionize due to decades of pro-corporate propaganda. we live in the worst universe so this is the likely outcome realistically
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Apr 28, 2020 14:30
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exquisite tea posted:I'm sure TLOU2 will still review pretty well but it does appear to make some decisions that even undiscerning game journalists hate with the downer ending and forced protagonist switch.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:32
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CharlestonJew posted:I think the main issue is: is this really a story that needed to be told? I liked the sort of ambiguous ending the 1st one had and dont really think they needed to revisit these characters, especially if they're going to give one of them the Andrew Ryan treatment The Last Of Us sold too many copies for them to not make another one. 20 million lifetimes sales versus Uncharted 4's 16 million.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:35
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Holy poo poo I expected this game to be garbage but 
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Apr 28, 2020 14:37
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I am glad that misery porn is gradually going out of style. It really is one of my least liked story frameworks.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:40
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I feel kinda bad that my first gut response to this was "oh thank god that's one less thing that I have on my long list of games to play." But really it's not that, it's when he said the poo poo about the next game being about "Hate" I was like "wuh oh" e: cringe edge-lording is the best way to put it
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Apr 28, 2020 14:44
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am0kgonzo posted:lol Yeah, I'm laughing at how bad it is, but it absolutely is going to be a critical and commercial success. People may turn on it after buying it, but it's gonna sell gangbusters. The only real question is how many years til the general press flips on it and pretends they always scorned it.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:45
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Onmi posted:And? who cares. Exactly, you dinguses aren't witty for kramering in to say that massive AAA games will still sell no matter what, Fallout 76 sold, one of the most neverending blunders in AAA space for a while, everyone already knows, we live in a capitalist poo poo pit where almost everything marketed will sell no matter what, it's not relevant anymore.
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Apr 28, 2020 14:47
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I didnt think the first game was all that great and definitely undeserving of the level of praise it got so I wasnt expecting much out of the second game but holy poo poo I might just have to play it for the lols At the very least it will join the pile of games "which I know I wont like but would like to play eventually to be able to form a more concrete opinion about but will never actually get around to it"
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Apr 28, 2020 14:51
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Skippy McPants posted:I am glad that misery porn is gradually going out of style. It really is one of my least liked story frameworks. it’s due for a comeback imo, we need pessimistic art now more than ever too bad this is looking like a rehash of a point better made by its predecessor
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Apr 28, 2020 15:02
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The only thing in recent memory that the leaks remind me of is A Way Out where (spoilers for that game) you play the entire game co-op until the very end when you find out that one of the players has been undercover the whole game and you fight to the death in a 1 on 1 gun battle. Like the whole game was a multiplayer lobby for the most underwhelming deathmatch mode. It seems like games take for granted a lot the idea that because you're given control of something in game, you automatically adjust to the goals and parameters that the game has laid out for you. That bioshock reveal of "whoa what IS choice!?" only goes so far when you're talking in real world terms of you paying 60 dollars to play something. To be constantly confronted with the dollar store psychological bent of "whoa have you ever thought how you never actually questioned what the game was asking you to do?" gets a little old.
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Apr 28, 2020 15:03
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Oxxidation posted:it’s due for a comeback imo, we need pessimistic art now more than ever Pessimistic art is one thing, someone mentioned Come and See earlier in the thead and that film is outstanding. What I take issue with are stories that use those elements gratuitously. Tales of awful people and awful events that aspire to be nothing more than ego-wank for their creators.
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Apr 28, 2020 15:09
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Dork457 posted:It seems like games take for granted a lot the idea that because you're given control of something in game, you automatically adjust to the goals and parameters that the game has laid out for you. That bioshock reveal of "whoa what IS choice!?" only goes so far when you're talking in real world terms of you paying 60 dollars to play something. To be constantly confronted with the dollar store psychological bent of "whoa have you ever thought how you never actually questioned what the game was asking you to do?" gets a little old. Yeah it was lame when bioshock did it, when spec ops the line did it, when far cry 3 did it, and it doesn't stop being a lame conceit. I'm still kinda okay with holding my judgement until I can see the story as a whole with respect to Last of Us 2(The original kinda works okay though the limited resource setpieces were way more interesting gameplaywise than the plot ended up being)
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Apr 28, 2020 15:11
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Oxxidation posted:We need pessimistic art now more than ever We really don't, everyone's already spent the last 4 years especially playing the epic irony nothing matters jaded shtick, if anything we need 'Put up or shut up' right now.
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Apr 28, 2020 15:14
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I'm genuinely curious what the moral and ethical "message" of the game will be. Surely, it must be more than "The game is about hate." *15 hours later* "Hate is bad."
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Apr 28, 2020 15:15
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halwain posted:Obvious Spoiler in the Video This seems fine to me tbh though lol at the red lighting in case you couldn't figure out what you're supposed to be feeling
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Apr 28, 2020 15:16
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Sudden Loud Noise posted:I'm genuinely curious what the moral and ethical "message" of the game will be. if you kill somebody better kill their friends and family too, it's the only way to be sure
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Apr 28, 2020 15:18
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Skippy McPants posted:Anyone who cares about the medium? Abusing your employees and telling terrible stories shouldn't be a meal ticket in this or any industry. My point wasn't that it's fine if a poo poo game run by a poo poo company makes money, my point was the defense of "Well this game is going to review well and sell loads of copies." Is irrelevant. Mass Effect 3 reviewed and sold well and guess what, the damage done by that game tanked that loving franchise down into the ground. Because rarely is a successful sequel property going to be killed on its own merits, it'll kill what follows it. There are people who'll defend this, there are people who don't want to know and will buy it for themselves and there are pretentious fucks who'll claim this is deep or compelling storytelling because they have the knowledge of a gnat with about the same taste. My hope is this torpedo's that planned TLOU tv series they were hoping for, one, because Druckmann's on it, and seeing shitbags get hoist by their own petard is delicious, and also because this was, and remains, the least interesting story you can tell in a Zombie Apocalypse. Human's are the real monsters, yeah I get it. You need new material. Oxxidation posted:it’s due for a comeback imo, we need pessimistic art now more than ever Doesn't a trend need to go away before it's due for a comeback and hell no, we've had like 6 years of pessimistic bullshit polluting everything, toss it in a bonfire already.
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Apr 28, 2020 15:20
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Dork457 posted:It seems like games take for granted a lot the idea that because you're given control of something in game, you automatically adjust to the goals and parameters that the game has laid out for you. That bioshock reveal of "whoa what IS choice!?" only goes so far when you're talking in real world terms of you paying 60 dollars to play something. To be constantly confronted with the dollar store psychological bent of "whoa have you ever thought how you never actually questioned what the game was asking you to do?" gets a little old. It's even worse when games admonish you for doing things you're given 0 actual agency over (besides turning off your monitor). I'm thinking specifically of Spec Ops: The Line here, I'd sure prefer not to drop those phosphorous bombs on innocent people but uuhh you're not giving me any other choice here to progress the story so I guess I'll just get a refund? Was that the point of your game? Who knows.
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Apr 28, 2020 15:22
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Dork457 posted:The only thing in recent memory that the leaks remind me of is A Way Out where (spoilers for that game) you play the entire game co-op until the very end when you find out that one of the players has been undercover the whole game and you fight to the death in a 1 on 1 gun battle. Like the whole game was a multiplayer lobby for the most underwhelming deathmatch mode. splinter cell conviction’s co-op story did that as well
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Apr 28, 2020 15:22
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halwain posted:Obvious Spoiler in the Video Ohhhh the game is a metaphor of what it's like to work for Naughty Dog. It's a pretty meta idea, but I guess it could work.
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Apr 28, 2020 15:23
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Onmi posted:My point wasn't that it's fine if a poo poo game run by a poo poo company makes money, my point was the defense of "Well this game is going to review well and sell loads of copies." Is irrelevant. Mass Effect 3 reviewed and sold well and guess what, the damage done by that game tanked that loving franchise down into the ground. Because rarely is a successful sequel property going to be killed on its own merits, it'll kill what follows it. There are people who'll defend this, there are people who don't want to know and will buy it for themselves and there are pretentious fucks who'll claim this is deep or compelling storytelling because they have the knowledge of a gnat with about the same taste. ME3 was fine, if anything tanked the franchise it was Andromeda, because it was a bad game.
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Apr 28, 2020 15:25
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am0kgonzo posted:ME3 was fine, if anything tanked the franchise it was Andromeda, because it was a bad game. ME3's story was very dumb but the gameplay and co-op multi was amazingly good
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Apr 28, 2020 15:27
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Andromeda was outsider art masquerading as a triple a game, easily the best mass effect game in the series
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Apr 28, 2020 15:29
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am0kgonzo posted:ME3 was fine, if anything tanked the franchise it was Andromeda, because it was a bad game. Andromeda was a bad game but at least it was fun to play
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Apr 28, 2020 15:30
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Yardbomb posted:We really don't, everyone's already spent the last 4 years especially playing the epic irony nothing matters jaded shtick buddy, you haven't seen anything yet
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Apr 28, 2020 15:35
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Onmi posted:Hell no, we've had like 6 years of pessimistic bullshit polluting everything, toss it in a bonfire already.  Pessimism is tired tripe, act or get out of the way already.
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Apr 28, 2020 15:35
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