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titty fat pizza posted:I disagree. Joel is the game. The original would not have been anywhere close to as good as it was without him. Joel redeemed himself through Ellie and now that and everything else they went through in part one means gently caress all. Playing as his killer for half of the game is the stupidest twist in any game ever. gently caress everything about it. Joel didnt redeem himself. In fact he got worse.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:42
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*shoots group of people about to kill a kid* Actually, why did no one ask whether or not the kid wanted to die? 
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Apr 28, 2020 23:44
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Extreme pragmatism is not a good luck dude
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Apr 28, 2020 23:46
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Yardbomb posted:The fireflies sucked and killing them was pretty cool and good from joels perspective they are going to find a cure from ellie and he is acting purely out of self interest, and not only that he is doing it because of his own cowardice in continuing to take her to them for what he knew was going to happen. then compounded on him massacring everyone in there, he refuses to even take a possible step towards any sort of redemption in his character by just lying to ellie when she already knew the truth and just wanted him to say it. he sucks and its good he dies in 2 regardless of anything else.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:46
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The fireflies were so comically villainous and stupid I don't know why anyone would feel anything for any of them
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Apr 28, 2020 23:47
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Joel did not "redeem" himself. The decision he made was 100% his own. Any after the fact justification doesn't change the fact he would have made the same decision even if it was a 100% success rate. He is an unrepentant murderer who puts himself and his family above *Anything* else. And that is fine! It makes him a plausible character. A lot of people were onboard the "gently caress anyone who isn't Ellie" train. It doesn't change the fact he made the decision for himself as much as her which is why he has to lie about it in the end.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:47
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Wait, people in this thread still think the first game was good? I thought TLOU was like Avatar, where everyone who loved it kind of quietly realized it was really not that good and had really awful themes in hindsight.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:55
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It is possible to empathize with Joel while also thinking he is a gigantic violent rear end in a top hat. ... Which is why it makes no loving sense putting you into Abby’s character after killing him, since it’s a perfect opportunity of framing him in a far different light. But I guess I didn’t win many Game Awards
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Apr 28, 2020 23:56
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Lurdiak posted:Wait, people in this thread still think the first game was good? I thought TLOU was like Avatar, where everyone who loved it kind of quietly realized it was really not that good and had really awful themes in hindsight. No, you're thinking of Bioshock Infiinite. The only complaints about TLOU that seem to stick are just based on being tired of apocalypse stories in general, which seems to the bulk of the complaints about the sequel.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:56
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Stux posted:from joels perspective they are going to find a cure from ellie and he is acting purely out of self interest, and not only that he is doing it because of his own cowardice in continuing to take her to them for what he knew was going to happen. then compounded on him massacring everyone in there, he refuses to even take a possible step towards any sort of redemption in his character by just lying to ellie when she already knew the truth and just wanted him to say it. he sucks and its good he dies in 2 regardless of anything else. This is why I have been a firm believer in the "Joel is Dead" theory since the reveal trailer (I was never joking about this) and the earlier he dies in LoU2 the better Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Wnvvj33Wo Galaxy brains knew Joel was Dead
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Apr 28, 2020 23:57
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TLOU actually had multiple endings, but no one saw the other ones because it just turns out "save your kid" vs "kill your kid, some other people might not die now" isn't much of a trolley problem outside of Philosophy 101.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:57
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Someone make a meme picture of CRUNCH with Abby breaking Joels head with a golf club and NO CRUNCH with the animal crossing villagers harmlessly bouncing off each other with axes and shovels.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:02
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FallenGod posted:TLOU actually had multiple endings, but no one saw the other ones because it just turns out "save your kid" vs "kill your kid, some other people might not die now" isn't much of a trolley problem outside of Philosophy 101. much like life is strange
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Apr 29, 2020 00:02
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ImpAtom posted:Joel did not "redeem" himself. The reason why you're getting this reaction is because the fireflies are terrible assholes and the developer was dumb enough to put a collectible in that says these guys don't what they're doing Like that collectible fucks up the entire theme they were going for edit: Not to mention you're killing people proven to be immune on the chances to save your own rear end.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:03
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SirKibbles posted:The reason why you're getting this reaction is because the fireflies are terrible assholes and the developer was dumb enough to put a collectible in that says these guys don't what they're doing this might shock you but that doesnt change anything about joels character or what he did and his motivations for it 
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Apr 29, 2020 00:04
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make a gamer stare at some guy's back for ten hours and they'll bend their brains into pretzels for his sake
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Apr 29, 2020 00:05
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SirKibbles posted:The reason why you're getting this reaction is because the fireflies are terrible assholes and the developer was dumb enough to put a collectible in that says these guys don't what they're doing The collectible doesn't even say that. At best it says they're not 100% sure it will succeed. I feel like people went from "it wasn't a sure success and thus isn't worth Ellie's life" to "Actually it had a 100% chance to FAIL" which wasn't something the game ever said either. It also has nothing to do with Joel's motivations. Joel has no idea what the Firefly's chance of success is when he decides to start murdering people.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:06
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actually becoming very clear why tlou2 might end up being far more obvious and literal than 1 already was
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Apr 29, 2020 00:07
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Stux posted:this might shock you but that doesnt change anything about joels character or what he did and his motivations for it It changes how the player views sacrificing Ellie which is going to make the player go " Ellie would've died for nothing so it's good he didn't" because they like Ellie. It makes you agree with Joel even though for the narrative to work they need to see how this has nothing to do with that. It's bad writing and was a mistake
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Apr 29, 2020 00:08
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TLOU is already super obvious, it's just kinda dumb.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:08
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SirKibbles posted:It changes how the player views sacrificing Ellie which is going to make the player go " Ellie would've died for nothing so it's good he didn't" because they like Ellie. It makes you agree with Joel even though for the narrative to work they need to see how this has nothing to do with that. ImpAtom posted:The collectible doesn't even say that. At best it says they're not 100% sure it will succeed.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:09
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SirKibbles posted:It changes how the player views sacrificing Ellie which is going to make the player go " Ellie would've died for nothing so it's good he didn't" because they like Ellie. It makes you agree with Joel even though for the narrative to work they need to see how this has nothing to do with that. And again it doesn't say that. People expand it into "actually they knew NOTHING!!!" because that way the choice is 100% justified and has no ambiguity at all. I also suspect that TLOU2 is going to retcon it so there was a 100% chance of success (or at least Abby has good reason to feel that way) which will transform her quest from "Killing that guy who killed my dad" to "Killing that guy who killed my dad and doomed the world" because ~thematic opposites~
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Apr 29, 2020 00:10
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e: ^^^ Ha, I didn't even consider that as part of her motivation. If she's a true believer in what they were going for it makes even more sense.SirKibbles posted:The reason why you're getting this reaction is because the fireflies are terrible assholes and the developer was dumb enough to put a collectible in that says these guys don't what they're doing I mean, that sounds like a personal problem. I got that collectible too and I'm entirely OK with Joel getting head-clubbed, because he's a monster in a world of monsters. No hang-ups here, never thought it hosed up anything. Dewgy fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 00:11
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thank god naughty dog is going to punish the bad fans for liking and sympathizing with the character they wrote
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Apr 29, 2020 00:12
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Brother Entropy posted:thank god naughty dog is going to punish the bad fans for liking and sympathizing with the character they wrote this but unironically is now my position
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Apr 29, 2020 00:13
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Brother Entropy posted:thank god naughty dog is going to punish the bad fans for liking and sympathizing with the character they wrote tlou2 is bad because your brain was stupid
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Apr 29, 2020 00:13
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ImpAtom posted:The collectible doesn't even say that. At best it says they're not 100% sure it will succeed. The collectible shouldn't exist at all like why introduce that doubt into the plot? I don't think Joel is a good person or he doesn't deserve whatever comes to him. But I can see why players would because the writing team did a bad job at this.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:14
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Brother Entropy posted:thank god naughty dog is going to punish the bad fans for liking and sympathizing with the character they wrote 
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Apr 29, 2020 00:14
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SirKibbles posted:The collectible shouldn't exist at all like why introduce that doubt into the plot? Because video games are idiot tier garbage for lovely babies, OR because ambiguity is interesting. Take your pick, depending on personal preference.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:14
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Oxxidation posted:tlou2 is bad because your brain was stupid actually my brain was smart for not paying money for tlou and waiting for it to hit ps+
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Apr 29, 2020 00:14
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titty fat pizza posted:Joel redeemed himself through Ellie What the
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Apr 29, 2020 00:16
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also im relatively certain that the actual content of it is insanely hopeful that it will actually work and that its a breakthrough
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Apr 29, 2020 00:16
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Dewgy posted:Because video games are idiot tier garbage for lovely babies, OR because ambiguity is interesting. Take your pick, depending on personal preference. The fact that the writers think that is ambiguous is why they are bad writers, the player is already inclined towards save Ellie don't put your thumb on that part of the scale more. edit : I just realized the actual gameplay could just be garbage
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Apr 29, 2020 00:19
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Stux posted:also im relatively certain that the actual content of it is insanely hopeful that it will actually work and that its a breakthrough pretty much quote:April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients. they had false starts because no poo poo they did, but their reaction to ellie was "holy gently caress this is exactly what we've been waiting for all this time" not that it matters in the end, of course
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Apr 29, 2020 00:19
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Actually, I killed my child to save the whole world, it was quite the moral dilemma and I really had to think on that one *turns into a cloud of farts and huffs himself*
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Apr 29, 2020 00:19
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The fireflies sucked even before the collectible, that just made it even more worthwhile to run and gun them.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:20
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SirKibbles posted:The collectible shouldn't exist at all like why introduce that doubt into the plot? I don't think Joel is a good person or he doesn't deserve whatever comes to him. But I can see why players would because the writing team did a bad job at this. I mean, why introduce what they did in the Blade Runner movie Director's cut? I have always thought Joel was a piece of poo poo, even despite what he did for Ellie, but that goes a bit deeper to outside of the game because there are plenty of these assholes in real life that I have come across.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:20
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TLOU wanted to be a movie so bad that it fails as a game because we cant control Joel or Ellie`s action regarding the final act. Of course i would have shot the doc and saved her but what if: a) We let the fireflies go with their plan and it works? b) those loving idiots kill a girl for nothing Thats more interesting to me that what we got because it wasnt a game it was Durkmann story. Also speaking of movies i really liked Maggie and i think its a better story than TLOU. This scene is really sad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N4KPkoJf6c
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Apr 29, 2020 00:20
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Brother Entropy posted:thank god naughty dog is going to punish the bad fans for liking and sympathizing with the character they wrote Killing a character off isn't meant to be punishment. If done poorly (and TLOU2 has a good chance of being done poorly) it can upset people for the wrong reasons but it isn't to punish players. The viewpoint of "you're killing the character I like as a slight to me" isn't generally one backed up unless you get an author who is so sick of being asked to write a character they just want them to go over a waterfall.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:21
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Oxxidation posted:pretty much lol
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Apr 29, 2020 00:21
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