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I just feel like anyone not voting for Scream must not have been a horror fan in the mid/late 90's(either too young or not born yet). You had to be there. It was an event series where you got your friends together and maybe had to sneak into the theater and then people would be talking about the movie at school for weeks. The Scream sequels, regardless of their quality, were a BIG deal. Blade just never reached that iconic status and has nowhere near the level of importance as Scream does. At least in the horror genre, if you want to talk about Blade's impact on superhero action flicks that's another discussion.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:14
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I voted for Scream, but I'd question the logic of voting for something based upon its historical context. If that's what you want to do, that's valid. For me though, there are a lot of Historically Important films which I respect, but would never recommend to anyone as a worthwhile viewing experience
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Apr 28, 2020 18:23
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Bigger question: Could Scream be the Elm Street killer?
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Apr 28, 2020 18:32
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The 90s is the least interesting decade of media to me in general, and I find a lot of the films pretty hard to watch—horror especially. I dislike the tone and feel of the era, not to mention how loving atrocious the majority of the flicks are to my aesthetic sensibilities. So it's rare that anything from that era is going to be particularly sacrosanct to me. Blade is more my thing than Scream because I tend to be a monsters guy and not a slasher guy, but neither of them are particularly beloved in my book. Sure, Scream is a way bigger deal objectively, and certainly a better movie objectively, but growing up in the 90s made me hate the whole Dawson's Creek 90s hot sexy slick melodramatic teen attitude, and even though Scream is consciously playing with that it can't escape that it also is that. I'm also not in love with the rave and leather and techno thing that Blade has going on, but I find it a lot more palatable, personally. But for the purposes of this bracket, Scream does make more sense as a winner from pretty much any angle than my own weird biases.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:32
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See I feel like even if you have no historical context for Scream or no appreciation for its impact on the genre or slasher sub genre or Wes's legacy or whatever... Scream still holds up as a classic horror, IMO. That's what makes it so drat good. Its not some pretentious meta commentary or deeply dated groundbreaker that got surpassed. Scream's a great slasher. And like the sequels are pretty hotly debated but I think that in and of itself says there's a lot there people like or feel strongly about. Blade is fun and sometimes silly and sometimes cool, I just don't see the math on how it beats Scream unless I am way more out of touch with our community than I realize. edit: And yeah, Blade is arguably like the proto-MCU film which is an interesting road to go down with it, but not one terribly meaningful to a horror tournament. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 18:33
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TrixRabbi posted:Bigger question: Could Scream be the Elm Street killer? Naw. There are more good Elm Street movies than there are Scream entries. Now, is Scream OG better than Elm Street OG?...That's a hard question. They're both incredibly creative and innovative in different ways. I kinda want to give it to the film that posits a serial killer who gets you in your dreams, with nightmare imagery and body horror, but Scream is incredibly tight for a 2 hour movie, and it uses the whole buffalo. STAC Goat posted:See I feel like even if you have no historical context for Scream or no appreciation for its impact on the genre or slasher sub genre or Wes's legacy or whatever... Scream still holds up as a classic horror, IMO. That's what makes it so drat good. Its not some pretentious meta commentary or deeply dated groundbreaker that got surpassed. Scream's a great slasher. And like the sequels are pretty hotly debated but I think that in and of itself says there's a lot there people like or feel strongly about. Scream is also an excellent whodunit mystery. The conclusion is better than anything Agatha Christie wrote. It's so satisfying. And funny. It's black humor works so well. Blade is also fun and creative and exciting, but Scream 1 & 2 are a better knockout than Blade 1 & 2 in almost every category for me. Hell, I had a friend who's a Blade stan change his vote to Scream after we watched it this weekend. He had never seen it, and was blown away. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 18:36
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Results! Nightmare isn't afraid of Candyman and wins, though perhaps it shows some weakness as "everyone's second-favorite slasher"? I definitely feel out of the "Big 4" it definitely has the fewest dedicated Fred-Heads, so while everyone is pretty happy to watch a Nightmare movie, everyone also has a pet B-tier franchise they like better. Meanwhile, despite several ardent supporters, Blade is firmly in the "best superhero movie with horror elements" camp which, sadly, is not what this bracket is for. Eastern Division shaping up to be a Craven v Craven matchup!  Evil Dead actually does better in the second round than Halloween did in the first against theoretically weaker competition. It's a good franchise ya'll. And From Dusk Till Dawn's one good film is not as many as Hellraiser's two, so it's gone. Western Bracket voting in a few!
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Apr 28, 2020 18:39
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As long as Craven gets his props, I'm happy.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:41
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Evil Dead vs. Hellraiser feels apt and Ash is gonna wipe the floor with Pinhead (which will probably leave scratches depending on the surface)
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Apr 28, 2020 18:44
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I've been nervous about Elm Street all along. I don't feel like that's a loved/appreciated franchise around here so I can see it falling to any solidly loved/respected franchise in this thing. i definitely thought Scream could take it down but this conversation is giving me doubt. Would I vote Scream over Elm Street? No. As I've said I have a hard time seeing myself voting against Elm Street as to me it really is the franchise that defined my horror upbringing. Freddy Kreuger is the face of horror for my youth, maybe closely followed only by Pennywise the Clown. That Evil Dead matchup is a difficult contest for me if it happens because its basically my horror youth vs my horror young adulthood. Objectively I think ED should win but I don't know if I can vote against Nightmare.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:44
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Apr 28, 2020 18:55
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Meryl Streep's hand behind the Scream poster is really freaking me the gently caress out.
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Apr 28, 2020 18:57
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Western Division SWEET SIX-SCREAM  Wake up... time to die. We're gonna spend a whole-rear end week with these four choices, so remember that you can go back and edit your selection. I also want to open up  posting options by having a permalink to your defense of a franchise in this post. Essentially, do a writeup explaining not just why this franchise beat who it beat to get here, but also like, an explanation to someone who maybe has only seen the iconic one in the series why the whole franchise is so great. I think it would help people who maybe haven't done a deep dive on, say, the Return of the Living Dead series to explain just why Yuzna's zombies are better than Romero's.And with that out of the way, the matchups!  Jason vs Djinn. Did you know J is the least-common letter in the alphabet, beyond even Z or X? It's true, and both these killers have a J in their name, so that's something! In Defense of Friday the 13th: No Volunteers  In Defense of Wishmaster: Shrecknet  Talbot-Era Universal Monsters vs C H U N K Y. Literally some of the best villains in history right here. In Defense of Universal Monsters: Burkion (...twice!) In Defense of Child's Play: Class3KillStorm   lovers of the world, unite! These are wildly different takes on the concept of the Living Dead, but I'm excited to hear pitches for both!In Defense of Night of the Living Dead: No Volunteers In Defense of Return of the Living Dead: No Volunteers  Absolute soul-shredding terror in space vs absolute soul-shredding terror in a 1970s bedroom. The choice is yours! In Defense of Alien: Timeless Appeal In Defense of Exorcist: Debbie Does Dagon Vote Now! Voting and discussion will continue until May 5!  HERE'S YOUR BALLOT! SHARE THIS LINK!
Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 18:58
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:I voted for Scream, but I'd question the logic of voting for something based upon its historical context. If that's what you want to do, that's valid. For me though, there are a lot of Historically Important films which I respect, but would never recommend to anyone as a worthwhile viewing experience My point isn't so much that Scream is Important, but that I was there to see the impact it had and so I just have a lot of fond memories of that whole experience. I'd grown up watching Michael and Jason and Freddy on cable t.v. but I'd been too young to experience the slasher boom properly. Scream was like my generations own version of that.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:02
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Weirdly I've seen EVERY film in these 8 franchises except for Covenant and Survival of the Dead. Maybe I'll sneak the latter in the next few days and do my Alien binge in the first week of May.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:05
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gently caress, Alien vs. Exorcist is a hard one. Personally I'm tending towards Alien, but having recently seen Beyond The Door reminded me how well made Exorcist is compared to any other movie in the rather dire exorcism movie subgenre. Exorcist III is of course wonderful, and if we count The 9th Configuration (are we?) there is probably more versatility in that franchise than in anything else in the competition.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:10
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Basebf555 posted:Scream was like my generations own version of that. (well, not totally. The lack of melanin in the films is expected, but it was "teenager" enough to be appealing). The later Freddy/Jason films tended to go really wide with their representation of kids. Here's the burnout potsmoker. Here's the boppy 80s pop jazzercise girl with neon legwarmers, crimped hair and a cutoff top. Here's jockguy. I think that leaves an impression. ___ I'll add one thing to the Alien/Exorcist discussion. I was talking to a guidance counselor in middle school once and the topic of horror films came up. She mentioned that she didn't really watch the films of the era because they were too out there or too gory. But The Exorcist? The Exorcist loving terrified her and her family. She was a semi-devout Catholic, and she mentioned that the film portrayed something that she was brought up to believe could happen. The film captured something about that previously abstract idea and made it tangibly horrifying for her. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 19:11
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That Alien/Exorcist matchup is really tough. Really really tough. I have to think about this. Maybe not so tough for those that don't like Heretic and Dominion but I really like every Exorcist movie except for Renny Harlin's.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:12
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Basebf555 posted:That Alien/Exorcist matchup is really tough. Really really tough. I have to think about this. I need to see Heretic for sure.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:14
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Oh, I haven't seen Dominion. But thats on today's schedule. The only easy vote for me this round of Night of the Living Dead. And I suspect there will be a strong push for Return but I will not be wooed to vote for it over the film that made it possible. But the rest are tough rear end votes. Wishmaster has no chance but I just don't want to vote for Jason. Chucky vs Universal is... I don't loving know. And Alien vs Exorcist? gently caress... I have no idea.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:15
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I'm a Return fan through and through, but even I feel weird about voting against Romero's OG trilogy plus the sequels I refuse to watch.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:16
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Yea as much as Return of the Living Dead is one of my all-time favorite movies, this is a case where one great movie just isn't enough to match the total body of work on the other side.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:25
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FilthyImp posted:I'll add one thing to the Alien/Exorcist discussion. I was talking to a guidance counselor in middle school once and the topic of horror films came up. She mentioned that she didn't really watch the films of the era because they were too out there or too gory.
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Apr 28, 2020 19:27
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STAC Goat posted:Wishmaster has no chance but I just don't want to vote for Jason.  please please please don't ask how long this took
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Apr 28, 2020 19:36
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Ironically it will probably be my "suck it up and vote responsibly" compulsion that gets me to pull the lever for Jason. But I'm gonna fight it for at least as long as it takes for me to decide between those other races with candidates I believe in. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Apr 28, 2020 |
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Apr 28, 2020 19:46
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Shrecknet posted:
IT'S HIS TURN
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Apr 28, 2020 19:52
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STAC Goat posted:Ironically it will probably be my "suck it up and vote responsibly" compulsion that gets me to pull the lever for Jason. That behavior is why you will never get a good candidate in the actual election. Vote Wishmaster. Follow your heart.
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Apr 28, 2020 20:10
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There IS some truth to the idea that Jason is a weak candidate that the system set up an easier path for to protect him. Too bad Wishmaster is very much not "my heart."
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Apr 28, 2020 20:25
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Frankenstein and Dracula are coming for Jason
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Apr 28, 2020 20:34
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FilthyImp posted:I'll add one thing to the Alien/Exorcist discussion. I was talking to a guidance counselor in middle school once and the topic of horror films came up. She mentioned that she didn't really watch the films of the era because they were too out there or too gory. I can't seem to track down a clip, but there's a stand-up bit that really hit me, being raised Catholic, about WASP parents not letting their kids watch horror movies and Catholic parents making their toddlers watch The Exorcist and going "See? That's what happens if you gently caress around."
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Apr 28, 2020 20:41
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Shrecknet posted:
Man, we need gang tags.
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Apr 28, 2020 20:57
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The worst thing you can say about most of the Friday the 13ths is that they're average slashers who got screwed over by censors. Wishmaster is a disaster of a series where I'm not even its two best films even live up to what they should be, given what they had to work with. Wishmaster is the low rent knock off of the Leprechaun series, and anyone who isn't just taking the piss knows that. Literally any other franchise on the list right now would also stomp Wishmaster and the fact that it made it this far is a fluke at best. Chucky, I love you man, but you're just one inventive slasher genre. You're going up against titans of horror. I love you, but its time to take your bow. Make sure to go for the ankles while you can though. And honestly, Exorcist has had some love in recent years for latter films, but I've just never found it all that scary. It was fine, definitely a good horror film, but I just think the original Alien is better. And the other Exorcist films are less good as horror and more good as "What the gently caress are you doing yes do that yes"
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Apr 28, 2020 21:02
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I think this is the most interesting set we have so far. I only recently watched the Wishmaster movies and I was surprised by how much I liked the series over all but it is really punching above its weight even getting to this round. I definitely think Friday the 13th is getting a relatively easy path here, but that's just the way the bracket is drawn and it can eat its loss next round. If somebody wants to convince me that Chucky is better than the Universal Monsters, they can try... but there aren't really any terribly unwatchable UM movies to me. Even the like "Abbot and Costello" movies are good dumb fun. Seed of Chucky is just unbearably bad and that's coming from somebody who has a huge crush on Jennifer Tilly. At this point in my life I would choose to watch Return over Night 100% of the time, but the Night sequels I think are overall better and the historical impact is obvious here in that there wouldn't be a Return if Night hadn't preceded it. Exorcist Vs. Alien is hard. Alien is an incredibly effective horror movie. Aliens has a lot more action in its DNA, but its still got the horror elements through and through. Alien 3 is a nihilistic hopeless horror movie that I have kind of a soft spot for and it's definitely more horror than action to me. Resurrection and the AVP movies are 100% action though, and when the franchise does return to horror with Prometheus and Covenant... it sucks. It sucks so bad. The movies lose all internal logic. The story is an overcomplicated mess. They're movies so beautifully shot that it kind of frustrates you how bad the scripts for them actually are. What does that add up to when we're talking about greatest horror franchises? I'm not sure. The first two movies are better than the best two movies in most franchises in this competition though... Exorcist is foundational horror. Nobody is going to argue that every entry in the series is, first and foremost, a horror movie. And it also has two really amazing entries. I think I am voting for it because ultimately I think something that is 100% absolutely a HORROR franchise, should win this bracket.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:25
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Ah, the eternal Prometheus discussion (it's a masterpiece). It's insane that anyone would rank Leprechaun above Wishmaster. Not that Wishmaster is great, it got this far because of pure luck, but Leprechaun sucks so, so much.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:33
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married but discreet posted:Ah, the eternal Prometheus discussion (it's a masterpiece). If that's your bar for "masterpiece"... I don't even know how to respond.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:12
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 Aliens vs Exorcist is tough. I ended up voting for Aliens since looking at it as a franchise it's much stronger. Each movie is very different from the last and the majority are good. The first two are great and I think Prometheus and Covenant are a great return to form for the main franchise after Resurrection.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:16
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Basebf555 posted:That Alien/Exorcist matchup is really tough. Really really tough. I have to think about this. It's boggling me that so many people are saying this when Alien was a windmill slam for me. And yes, I have seen all the original Exorcist trilogy. Whatever you want to argue about Resurrection - and I do think that movie still had much in the way of merit, certainly in Ripley-8's journey - the Alien franchise contains not one but two legendary movies as well as several brave efforts. The remainder of the Exorcist franchise is riding on the coattails of the original movie, which is inarguably one of the greatest horror movies of all time but even then still has Alien as a competitor.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:19
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I remain baffled that so many people don't appreciate Prometheus. It has a couple of flaws but if you want to stack it up against the weaker Exorcist movies we're looking at a complete blowout in favor of the Xenomorphs. I still need to watch Covenant, and maybe the good cut of III (is that streaming anywhere?) - on the Exorcist side I've seen the first three, which as far as things people claim are good go I guess I should watch...the TV show? That just sounds annoying. I should watch the first two Universal Frankensteins before I make up my mind on that one, but given the decision that Universal Monsters is actually The Wolfman Saga and doesn't include The Invisible Man it's really hard to get excited about checking the rest out. From a distance there's just nothing interesting about Larry and I'd rather have Hammer Dracula. I hate Friday the 13th as a franchise just because there's so much wasted potential. Every time one of the entries comes close to greatness the MPAA cuts out all the violence or something. Probably still better than Wishmaster but ugh.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:37
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The weakest Alien entries are perhaps stronger than the weakest Exorcist entries, but Exorcist's two strongest are even better than Alien's. It's definitely a close call but it's not like Exorcist is a one hit wonder.
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Apr 29, 2020 00:55
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The first Wishmaster is better than all of Leprechaun combined. Blade mouthed it best: what the gently caress?
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Apr 29, 2020 01:27
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