|
Stux posted:you realise outside the US is pretty common that minors can overrule parents specifically on medical matters. like to get insanely real in the uk the largest use of it is to protect trans kids from awful garbage parents. its not really trolley problem nonsense. Me: Your minor child cannot consent to killing themselves for trolley problem reasons This argument in about 2 pages: So you think parents should wield absolute power over their children and female genital mutilation is actually cool?!?! No thanks, I'm out.
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 06:28 |
|
|
FallenGod posted:I'm not really seeing a real world analogue for this that isn't trolley problem nonsense or some bizarre edge case like a parent consenting to separate conjoined twins but somehow against their will? There are plenty. Vaccinations are an easy one. There are plenty of anti-vax parents who refuse to have their kids vaccinated and in doing so risk not only their children but other people as well. I don't think anyone would argue that vaccinations should be the sole realm of the parents. (And indeed there are teenagers who actually sneak out to get vaccinations against their parent's will for this exact reason.) Abortion is another one where it is generally recognized that a parent should not have the ability to force their child to have a child of their own without the child's consent. Another case where people are forced to sneak out against their parent's will. There are also cases of risky but necessary operations that can have long-term impact on a child. This is another case where the patient is owed the frank discussion because they are the ones who have to live with the consequences. (Not to mention operations that are against a parent's religious beliefs or otherwise paranoid conspiracy beliefs.) "Ellie is not allowed to make any decisions for herself ever" is infantalizing her in a way the real world doesn't people of her age.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 01:04
|
|
|
the closest thing ellie has to a mother is literally going to kill her by wielding absolute power over her thats the entire point
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 01:06
|
|
|
halwain posted:Obvious Spoiler in the Video drat, that, uh made me a bit uncomfortable. I play loads of violent video games, but there's something about this kind of violence that's crossing into torture porn territory or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:33
|
|
|
Imagine if Austin Powers 4 came out and 30 minutes in Mr.Powers gets beaten to death by the son of the guy murdered by the steamroller in the first film. That's it. That's the game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:35
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:drat, that, uh made me a bit uncomfortable. I play loads of violent video games, but there's something about this kind of violence that's crossing into torture porn territory or something. It definitely is torture porn
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:37
|
|
Dramicus posted:drat, that, uh made me a bit uncomfortable. I play loads of violent video games, but there's something about this kind of violence that's crossing into torture porn territory or something. I feel that way about that one Tomb Raider game that everyone pretends isn't terrible.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:39
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I feel that way about that one Tomb Raider game that everyone pretends isn't terrible. Yeah, I got that in a humble monthly pack and noped out of it pretty early once I saw some of the environment deaths. It's the only game I've ever stopped playing for that reason.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:40
|
|
|
yeah on the gross scale its around tomb raider and doesnt hit the level of some of the new MK stuff for me
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:40
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I feel that way about that one Tomb Raider game that everyone pretends isn't terrible. Do you mean the original reboot? It was pretty heavy, but no where near tlou heavy and you got your cathartic kill frenzy on later.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:41
|
|
|
Shooting people is one thing, but when you start getting a vibe that the animator spent way too much time detailing a death, to the point you start wondering if it's some kind of fetish. That's something else.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:47
|
|
|
Stux posted:i mean tlous writing isnt that amazing no, its like, just solidly fine to good. but its shocking to me genuinely so many people seem to have misread like, basic story elements so hard and im not longer shocked if tlou2 is extremely upfront about it to the point of excess. Subtlety is generally overrated imo. Look at Death Stranding. Incredibly blunt with the added benefit of all its gameplay systems reinforcing its themes at every possible opportunity. A character literally says "here, I brought you a metaphor" and it rules.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:48
|
|
|
It seems honestly about as violent as the original TLOU it is just that the primary violence is being done to sympathetic characters this time. Admittedly I'm not sure fond of violence but I also am probably a bit desensitized since the last violent game I played was RE3make and that has deaths where your character begs and screams as their guts are violently torn out and a completely unavoidable scene where the heroine gets a giant parasite tube forced down her throat.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:51
|
|
|
im looking forward to playing death stranding when it comes out on pc and also i can afford it and to drink monster energy drink in game
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:51
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:Subtlety is generally overrated imo. Look at Death Stranding. Incredibly blunt with the added benefit of all its gameplay systems reinforcing its themes at every possible opportunity. A character literally says "here, I brought you a metaphor" and it rules. It was interesting watching Parasite not long after DS. A character in that directly refers to an object as a metaphor. It's also blunt as gently caress and rules.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:52
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:It seems honestly about as violent as the original TLOU it is just that the primary violence is being done to sympathetic characters this time. oh yeah i was playing re2make and the combo of head crush/half of a living man pulled out from a door back to back early on in the station was pretty extreme
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:53
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:Subtlety is generally overrated imo. Look at Death Stranding. Incredibly blunt with the added benefit of all its gameplay systems reinforcing its themes at every possible opportunity. A character literally says "here, I brought you a metaphor" and it rules. I know authors who use subtext, and they're all cowards.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:55
|
|
|
Stux posted:yeah on the gross scale its around tomb raider and doesnt hit the level of some of the new MK stuff for me Like I am not really into MK and from what I heard they had similar issues with animators getting hosed up from needing to watch a bunch of violent reference material. But there it almost just pushes into cartoon slapstick, especially with them popping back up in the next round. Last of Us is all about "THIS IS REAL-LIFE PAIN"
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 02:56
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:02
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:Like I am not really into MK and from what I heard they had similar issues with animators getting hosed up from needing to watch a bunch of violent reference material. But there it almost just pushes into cartoon slapstick, especially with them popping back up in the next round. Last of Us is all about "THIS IS REAL-LIFE PAIN" im generally not bothered by stuff like that unless its full blown Body Horror stuff, but the new MKs are the only games for me personally where it legit gets to the point of being uncomfortable, this is definitely very very violent but in the same way as other zombie games or TR to me. the stuff from what the studio heads are boasting about they made animators watch for reference is obviously absolutely turbo gross. im fine with everything being less violent even if its for no reason other than that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:05
|
|
|
A goon once said "the xray attacks in this MK game are 'filmed' like cumshots" and I've never forgotten it
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:09
|
|
|
The actual physical violence affects me less than the realistic reactions that accompany it. Like with Tomb Raider the actual stabbing or bludgeoning is less traumatizing than the amount of detail they put into depicting the reaction of fear and panic and then the life draining from her eyes, and the camera like lingers on that. Same with Last of Us, where their "special" execution animations feature the person thrashing or begging for their life before they get domed
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:09
|
|
|
mk11 has more of the fun cartoony over the top fatailities than X had, but overall there's still too many that's 'oh wow those sure are some realistic intestines i get to see after that guy got disemboweled'
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:11
|
|
|
The level of violence in MK runs from gross-out to just plain goofy, but the overall tone of the games is like an Evil Dead movie. It's way different in feeling and scope from showing two people realistically getting beaten to within an inch of their lives in a grounded work of fiction.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:14
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:The actual physical violence affects me less than the realistic reactions that accompany it. Like with Tomb Raider the actual stabbing or bludgeoning is less traumatizing than the amount of detail they put into depicting the reaction of fear and panic and then the life draining from her eyes, and the camera like lingers on that. Same with Last of Us, where their "special" execution animations feature the person thrashing or begging for their life before they get domed This is exactly it, thanks for putting it into words. I was having difficulty explaining why I found it uncomfortable. Like if a dude gets his arm blown off in battlefield, sure that's violent, but the game doesn't have him bleed out for 5 minutes while coughing up blood from a shrapnel wound in his chest and crying about his mother while grasping at his dismembered limb. The tomb raider deaths were really drawn out and morbid, particularly if you pay attention to the facial expressions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:16
|
|
|
i think with mk its like... i think the disconnect makes it weirder for me? like the extremely casual nature of insane levels of violence when painstakingly rendered in a modern engine is what flips it over to making me feel uncomfortable. i dunno, im not a good measuring stick for this anyway probably
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:21
|
|
|
Read the TLOU 2 subreddit and lmao, people are furious over this poo poo for the dumbest reasons. Like drat, I popped into a thread where some dude is posting transphobic poo poo, looked at his post history, and dude has spent 9+ hours ranting about trans women because Joel died and that made him really sad and he thinks the buff lady is trans. poo poo’s wild, I think the game sounds dumb but these people are either broken up about it as if it were a death in the family or think it’s a communist plot.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 03:59
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/LightGaia51/status/1254750888817758210
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 04:47
|
|
|
I guess how violence is framed, and to what end it is being used, is often more important than the violence itself. Tons of games are way gorier the the Tomb Raider reboot, but the environmental deaths in that game were much more uncomfortable than anything else because the camera lingers on it and because it doesn't accomplish anything, making it feel incredibly gratiutous. TLOU 1 had some rough stuff in the death animations, but it tended to cut to black quite quickly. What's weird about the leaks is that the violence in them is definitely framed in a way to make it uncomfortable and is also directed towards sympathetic characters, but it is also completely derived from any other context in the story which makes it come of much gratuitous and cruel then it might when placed in context. This isn't certain and ND could definitely have hosed up the writing leading up to it, but is sorta impossible to know right now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 10:02
|
|
|
Mortal Kombat violence definitely gives me more of an impression of a goofy cartoon or, say, one of those Kill Bill deaths where there's a firehose of blood after. There's no emotional weight to it since they just get back up for the next fight and most of the time the level of violence is completely unrealistic and fantastical. Agreed that the violence in Tomb Raider was much more unsettling. Even if there's much less blood and no x-ray viewpoints of exploding kidneys or whatever, it relishes the emotional pain and fear and misery of it which is significantly nastier and more psychopathic
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 11:08
|
|
|
I think I died twice to the environment playing tomb raider because the environment was violent and terrifying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 11:11
|
|
|
I liked this thread better then it was about TLOU2 instead of a rehash of the TLOU1 thread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 12:06
|
|
|
doingitwrong posted:I liked this thread better then it was about TLOU2 instead of a rehash of the TLOU1 thread. joel did nothing wrong
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 12:14
|
|
Stux posted:yeah on the gross scale its around tomb raider and doesnt hit the level of some of the new MK stuff for me I havent played MK10 or 11 so I'm sad to hear the kills got more upsetting. I appreciate gore in a horror movie kind of way, especially if it's presented in a fun way instead of an upsetting one, and MK always seemed to lean towards the Peter Jackson/Evil Dead kind of gleeful gore instead of making people think of war crimes. Like I think there's a big difference between some Paul Verhoeven bloody spectacle vs someone realistically begging and crying as a branches pierces their lungs or w/e.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 13:01
|
|
|
MK11 is a game where Shao Kahn bashes your head in with a hammer so hard it flies out of your rear end. Gory yes but also extremely goofy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 13:03
|
|
|
The leaks honestly haven't dampened my excitement for this game at all. God gamers (at least gamers on reddit and Twitter) are awful. Anything would sound poo poo if released in dot point format. I can't wait for this game and trust in Naughty Dog.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 14:04
|
|
|
BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I can't wait trust in Naughty Dog. Congrats on the new job at Naughty Dog.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 14:34
|
|
|
BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:The leaks honestly haven't dampened my excitement for this game at all. God gamers (at least gamers on reddit and Twitter) are awful. Anything would sound poo poo if released in dot point format. I can't wait for this game and trust in Naughty Dog. TLOU 1 wasnt a good game so why would the second one be?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 14:36
|
|
|
fridge corn posted:TLOU 1 wasnt a good game so why would the second one be? TLOU is a good game, though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 15:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 06:28 |
|
|
TLOU is a game that aggressively demands you take it seriously, this is serious man! It demands to be taken more seriously than anything else, more than If This Is A Man, more than Come And See. So when you actually look at it seriously and it crumbles, it feels like poo poo. Everything is precious, including every single bullet, that's why those bandits move and entire motorized infantry battalion to kill two little shits that are already fleeing, pissing away thousands of rounds of heavy machine gun ammunition. That's why the fireflies start straightaway with destructive testing on their single hope, not ever taking a moment to check if the arm shroom has an effect on some poor shmuck or other unsavory thing they might do from being such assholes as threatening to shoot a guy giving CPR to their one hope of salvation, that's why there has to be some free Rape Peril moment, and not only a black kid dies but another black guy has to die too, that's why people at risk of getting instant killed by being bitten don't wear heavy clothes or bike leathers that would perhaps save them. You don't take time to question all the things that make zero sense in Mad Max because it doesn't take itself so seriously that you feel you have to, you don't do it in Soul Calibur because that series knows exactly what it's about, you don't do it in Homeworld 1 or cataclysm or DoK because they do things competently enough that you don't really care about where the big missiles are and so on. FEAR has good enough shooting and action and is engaging enough that you don't quetion it too much. The Lord of the Rings has enough depth to it when you poke that you go with it. TLOU demands to be taken seriously and then slowly proceeds to poo poo itself over its entire length. And sure the character writing is good, excellent even, but it just bounces off the stupidity of the rest and appears as transparently manipulative, same for the giraffe scene that would actually have been great in another, better, actually good, game. It wanted to make Joel's decision understandable, justified but monstrous all at once and failed because the fireflies are stupid and when you consider a situation such as that one seriously, killing the one hope you have is intensely stupid for an infinity of reasons. Also it might just be that the weird mutant is Elie and not the shroom she got. Also a raider and bandit of twenty years still hasn't found a single loving knife. Basically, TLOU is a bad game. SIGSEGV fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Apr 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 15:42
|
|
