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Arglebargle III posted:Now is this true? Probably the particulars are not accurate, but it's plausible in the general outline and it's told well. That last story is close enough to the Mutiny on the Bounty, so it makes sense.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:52
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Also Herodotus will drop these huge bombshells as an aside. Like there's this one passage where he's describing this big temple in Lydia, and mentions, "and there are six stele around the temple recording what section of the people donated the most to its construction, and when the totals were complete the most part came from the working girls of Lydia, because it is the custom of the Lydians for common girls to universally prostitute themselves, and by this means they supply their own dowries and give themselves away in marriage. So anyway this temple is made at the base from cut stone, but higher up from earth..."
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Apr 30, 2020 00:59
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So dolphins wouldn’t mind “rescuing” a dude but in reality he was probably trying to have sex with him and just kinda of scooted him towards shore on accident.
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Apr 30, 2020 01:11
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LingcodKilla posted:So dolphins wouldn’t mind “rescuing” a dude but in reality he was probably trying to have sex with him and just kinda of scooted him towards shore on accident. Yeah, even in modern times dolphins are known to push drowning people ashore, and also to grab perfectly healthy swimmers and push them far out to sea. Dolphins are capricious dicks, and a man overboard saved by a dolphin is perfectly believable.
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Apr 30, 2020 01:18
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Arglebargle III posted:Also Herodotus will drop these huge bombshells as an aside. Like there's this one passage where he's describing this big temple in Lydia, and mentions, "and there are six stele around the temple recording what section of the people donated the most to its construction, and when the totals were complete the most part came from the working girls of Lydia, because it is the custom of the Lydians for common girls to universally prostitute themselves, and by this means they supply their own dowries and give themselves away in marriage. So anyway this temple is made at the base from cut stone, but higher up from earth..." this has got to be one of those "drat dude all the girls in lydia are whores" type tall tales right
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Apr 30, 2020 01:40
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  I've definitely been struggling with all the ancient place names. Being conversant with Roman place names only gets you so far 500 years before the Principate.
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Apr 30, 2020 01:43
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cheetah7071 posted:this has got to be one of those "drat dude all the girls in lydia are whores" type tall tales right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_ancient_Greece I really doubt it the ancient greeks were pretty wild. Athens similarly built a temple funded by taxes on prostitution. Herodotus has the benefit of having no one to disagree with him. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 01:48
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Arglebargle III posted:Herodotus has the benefit of having no one to disagree with him. Thucydides begs to differ. (Someone please post the comic  )
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Apr 30, 2020 01:59
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All I know is I've seen a lot of headlines over the years saying things like "Weird Herodotus story proves correct by new archaeology" and I've never seen a headline going the other way At this point I default to giving him the benefit of the doubt
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Apr 30, 2020 02:51
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"Archaeologists continue to find no evidence that Scythians made quivers out of skinned human hands" doesn't really make for a flashy article.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:16
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Ugh the new Assassin's Creed is doing vikings like everybody was five years ago. I want an An Lushan Rebellion setting. Tang China is a setting that hasn't been done to death like the Three Kingdoms or Sengoku Japan or vikings or Rome.
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Apr 30, 2020 03:25
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There's another Herodotus prostitute story I wonder about, the city where all the women have to go the temple at puberty and prostitute themselves at least once. I always figured that was some "those foreigners are all sex freaks" popular in every country, so I'd be surprised if there's other sources that confirm it.
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Apr 30, 2020 04:38
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Squalid posted:There's another Herodotus prostitute story I wonder about, the city where all the women have to go the temple at puberty and prostitute themselves at least once. I always figured that was some "those foreigners are all sex freaks" popular in every country, so I'd be surprised if there's other sources that confirm it. The Wikipedia article on this goes into more.depth than I thought it would: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution
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Apr 30, 2020 04:45
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Arglebargle III posted:Ugh the new Assassin's Creed is doing vikings like everybody was five years ago. I want an An Lushan Rebellion setting. Tang China is a setting that hasn't been done to death like the Three Kingdoms or Sengoku Japan or vikings or Rome. I still want a mesoamerican AC. See the Mayan or Aztec empires at their height.
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Apr 30, 2020 06:11
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Teotihuacan would be an interesting setting for a game. A massive multi-ethnic city that was possibly brought down by widespread class conflict (just going from memories of former Wikipedia binges), and since we know so little about it there would be a a lot of room for artistic licence. For better or possibly (definitely if an AC game) for worse.
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Apr 30, 2020 06:15
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Arglebargle III posted:Ugh the new Assassin's Creed is doing vikings Wait, what?
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Apr 30, 2020 06:20
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One interesting thing about Athenian prostitution was that prostitution was sanctioned (and taxed) but pimping waa illegal. At least for free women. Not sure how slave prostitutes were counted in the law. Assassin's Creed actually makes the distinction between pornoi and heteroi and has a pornoi character complain about the glamorous image of Corinthian courtesans not matching real life for most prostitutes.
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Apr 30, 2020 06:25
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The Wikipedia article on this goes into more.depth than I thought it would: looking at that article briefly and it appears this Herodotus story is still angrily disputed by the pros, so at least I have some support for my hunches. Actually though, I was just reminded about a BBC article I read on a small community, Lesotho, I think? That really did have a universal deflowering ritual for adolescent girls, although it employed a professional rather than letting any man come off the street and participate. Weirdly the only people they could find to support the practice were the girls mothers, who insisted it was necessary for religious reasons and became defensive when pressed. Girls universally expressed disgust at the prospect, while the professional deflowerer said he knew it was backward and claimed he only did it for the money while his wife facepalmed behind him. Then when the areas high HIV prevalence was brought up, the man just straight up admitted to the absolutely incredulous reporters that he was HIV positive. They eventually badgered him into promising to give it up, although who knows if he kept to that after they left (the locals believe he was magically purified by his status as a holy man or something) Anyway, that was just a long winded way to say that even the weirdest and most inexplicably unpleasant customs are possible or even likely to exist somewhere in this wide world, so its always worth looking into Herodotus's tall tales.
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Apr 30, 2020 06:43
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Grevling posted:Teotihuacan would be an interesting setting for a game. A massive multi-ethnic city that was possibly brought down by widespread class conflict (just going from memories of former Wikipedia binges), and since we know so little about it there would be a a lot of room for artistic licence. For better or possibly (definitely if an AC game) for worse. formation of the xiongnu confederacy and how they went from disparate tribes of horse people to a united nation that drat near turned the han empire into a historical footnote
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Apr 30, 2020 06:55
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The only sacred prostitution is my prostitution.
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Apr 30, 2020 07:01
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Squalid posted:looking at that article briefly and it appears this Herodotus story is still angrily disputed by the pros, so at least I have some support for my hunches. Actually though, I was just reminded about a BBC article I read on a small community, Lesotho, I think? That really did have a universal deflowering ritual for adolescent girls, although it employed a professional rather than letting any man come off the street and participate. Weirdly the only people they could find to support the practice were the girls mothers, who insisted it was necessary for religious reasons and became defensive when pressed. Girls universally expressed disgust at the prospect, while the professional deflowerer said he knew it was backward and claimed he only did it for the money while his wife facepalmed behind him. Then when the areas high HIV prevalence was brought up, the man just straight up admitted to the absolutely incredulous reporters that he was HIV positive. They eventually badgered him into promising to give it up, although who knows if he kept to that after they left (the locals believe he was magically purified by his status as a holy man or something) That was actually in southern Malawi. I remember reading that report when it came out as well. The "hyena" in question ended up being arrested and sentenced to two years hard labor. The prosecution wanted a tougher charge, but couldn't get any underage witnesses to come forward. He got out in 2018. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36843769 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37431005 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38006053 https://www.nyasatimes.com/malawi-hyena-man-aniva-prison-served-sentence-ritual-sex-stalled-appeal-withdrawn/ Kaal fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 12:50
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Kylaer posted:Thucydides begs to differ. (Someone please post the comic Gotchu fam 
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Apr 30, 2020 13:35
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Squalid posted:looking at that article briefly and it appears this Herodotus story is still angrily disputed by the pros, so at least I have some support for my hunches. Actually though, I was just reminded about a BBC article I read on a small community, Lesotho, I think? That really did have a universal deflowering ritual for adolescent girls, although it employed a professional rather than letting any man come off the street and participate. This was also true for aristocrats in Angkor, according to a Chinese diplomat who visited for a couple of months and wrote down his experiences, which is the only record, IIRC, of day-to-day life there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Daguan Under the circumstances, though, who knows how reliable that is.
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Apr 30, 2020 16:01
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Squalid posted:this is a cool quote and it really has me wondering what life was like in a place like Wales during the Roman empire and immediate aftermath. Since with mining and all it was obviously pretty integrated to the Roman economy Was Wales (as opposed to Cornwall) mined much at the time? Cornish tin was the biggest thing then, coal was around but not that important before the Industrial Revolution.
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Apr 30, 2020 17:53
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feedmegin posted:Was Wales (as opposed to Cornwall) mined much at the time? Cornish tin was the biggest thing then, coal was around but not that important before the Industrial Revolution. Yeah there were a number of mines. 
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Apr 30, 2020 18:20
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The Romans actually did use a fair amount of coal and mined for it in England and Wales. They had other sources too and most of the British coal was used locally, but there are finds of coal shipped from Britain to other parts of the empire.
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Apr 30, 2020 22:14
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feedmegin posted:Was Wales (as opposed to Cornwall) mined much at the time? Cornish tin was the biggest thing then, coal was around but not that important before the Industrial Revolution. well according to the wikipedia article on welsh history I skimmed after I posted that, Wales wasn't as heavily developed compared to Cornwall, and outside the SE area it was mostly just military roads and forts. Still its obvious from the map that it wasn't like, isolated or anything. I watched a BBC documentary that explored the Welsh goldmine on that map and the host said the Romans mined it clear out, they left basically nothing for modern miners to extract.
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Apr 30, 2020 23:48
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I feel like if you dropped a bce 80 - bce 50 Roman into America today they’d be dictator within 2 months
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May 1, 2020 04:27
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Is Dan Carlin respected among historians? I’d imagine there would be some elitism or jealousy that he’s a popular well known figure in the historical community, yet he didn’t spend that time and money earning a history degree. He didn’t pay his dues. But he made an interesting point in his podcast about Caesars gallic wars. He’s more free to speculate and indulge theories because he doesn’t have to protect his credibility like a history professor would.
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May 1, 2020 04:51
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ChocNitty posted:Is Dan Carlin respected among historians? I’d imagine there would be some elitism or jealousy that he’s a popular well known figure in the historical community, yet he didn’t spend that time and money earning a history degree. He didn’t pay his dues. For those of us not familiar with the podcast, would you elaborate on the point you mentioned?
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May 1, 2020 05:13
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I'm not sure what you mean by respected, but the historians I know are generally fans of history podcasting because it gets a wide audience interested in history. As long as it isn't spreading bullshit. There are extremely stuffy academics who look down on any history material designed for consumption by the general public rather than True Specialists but they're assholes and nobody likes them anyway.
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May 1, 2020 05:16
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I know one of the history podcaster is looked down upon by their peers because they have become a sort of creep with regards to collegues and students after their fame. But the universities and departments seem to be throwing lots of money at them since it is so successful and has huge amounts of engagement by the public.
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May 1, 2020 05:24
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Which one is the creep?
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May 1, 2020 05:25
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ChocNitty posted:Is Dan Carlin respected among historians? I’d imagine there would be some elitism or jealousy that he’s a popular well known figure in the historical community, yet he didn’t spend that time and money earning a history degree. He didn’t pay his dues. He's Traditional History all the way. If you want to ignore recent scholarship, if you want to have several dozen pop historical books distilled down for you, if you want only to engage with any topic on the superficial, he's your man. People who want Romans to be squat black haired Jupiter worshipping Latin speaking dudes named Publius wearing lorica segmemtata who live in red-roofed houses will love Dan Carlin.
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May 1, 2020 06:02
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His WWI history really bothered me and now I'm unwilling to give him a chance at all. This is me admitting my prejudices.
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May 1, 2020 06:04
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:His WWI history really bothered me and now I'm unwilling to give him a chance at all. This is me admitting my prejudices. Yeah, same here.
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May 1, 2020 06:18
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:His WWI history really bothered me and now I'm unwilling to give him a chance at all. This is me admitting my prejudices. Why so?
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May 1, 2020 06:32
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Squalid posted:looking at that article briefly and it appears this Herodotus story is still angrily disputed by the pros, so at least I have some support for my hunches. Actually though, I was just reminded about a BBC article I read on a small community, Lesotho, I think? That really did have a universal deflowering ritual for adolescent girls, although it employed a professional rather than letting any man come off the street and participate. Weirdly the only people they could find to support the practice were the girls mothers, who insisted it was necessary for religious reasons and became defensive when pressed. Girls universally expressed disgust at the prospect, while the professional deflowerer said he knew it was backward and claimed he only did it for the money while his wife facepalmed behind him. Then when the areas high HIV prevalence was brought up, the man just straight up admitted to the absolutely incredulous reporters that he was HIV positive. They eventually badgered him into promising to give it up, although who knows if he kept to that after they left (the locals believe he was magically purified by his status as a holy man or something) It's kinda like how the infamous Procopius story about Empress Theodora just sounds like something Lena Dunham would put on Girls if it was still on the air.
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May 1, 2020 06:39
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euphronius posted:I feel like if you dropped a bce 80 - bce 50 Roman into America today they’d be dictator within 2 months I really doubt it, American politics is extremely racialized in a way that would be downright strange to a Roman.
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May 1, 2020 07:08
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's kinda like how the infamous Procopius story about Empress Theodora just sounds like something Lena Dunham would put on Girls if it was still on the air. It would be easier to take the swan thing seriously if it wasn't part of a book that also includes the chapter headings Proving That Justinian and Theodora Were Actually Fiends in Human Form and How Justinian Killed a Trillion People.
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May 1, 2020 07:09
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