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Admiral Ray posted:So why wouldn't they just have those parts damaged, if at all? The Normandy has reaper tech in it too and it didn't explode. I think the writers possibly did think it through, they just didn't care about the things you care about e.g. keeping the robot characters around for a sequel
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Apr 8, 2020 23:17
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| # ? May 30, 2024 11:34 |
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Never stop defending the precious, infallible, misunderstood writers of Mass Effect (3) 
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Apr 8, 2020 23:53
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Apr 8, 2020 23:56
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Lt. Danger posted:I think the writers possibly did think it through, they just didn't care about the things you care about e.g. keeping the robot characters around for a sequel I don't really give a gently caress that they died, it was worth it to sacrifice them to kill the reapers. I just want consistent pulse behavior. Control should have resulted in Shepard taking control of EDI and the Geth since Destroy killed them.
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Apr 9, 2020 00:08
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It is canon that Shepard moves hearts and minds to historically reconcile the two factions that had been warring for generations, and they agreed to share their mutual homeland, and then a week later he wiped one of those factions completely out of existence
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Apr 9, 2020 00:11
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It is known that the geth and all Reaper-assisted technology will die with the Reapers because the Reapers said so and have never been demonstrated to lie or manipulate in any way. edit: i like french fries
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Apr 9, 2020 02:54
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My Argument for the destroy ending being the real ending and not killing the Geth has always been, if you have your warscore high enough you get the nice little ending video of Shephard clearly still alive under wreckage. Given he's mostly reaper tech and if the Starchild was telling the truth, that can't happen.
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Apr 9, 2020 05:15
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ZombyDog posted:My Argument for the destroy ending being the real ending and not killing the Geth has always been, if you have your warscore high enough you get the nice little ending video of Shephard clearly still alive under wreckage. Given he's mostly reaper tech and if the Starchild was telling the truth, that can't happen. they prolly didn't think that through tbh
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Apr 9, 2020 05:47
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Mass Effect - they prolly didn't think that through
orcane fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 08:35
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Pattonesque posted:they prolly didn't think that through tbh Pre-extended cut, EDI could even show up in the destroy ending perfectly fine. They really didn't.
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Apr 9, 2020 10:56
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Pattonesque posted:they prolly didn't think that through tbh I have it on good authority that they possibly did think it through, they just didn't care about the things you care about e.g. making a compelling and satisfying ending.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:05
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I've wrote about this before - here's my pitch to fix the end of Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect universe, keeping all the game's assets and horrible decisions but just updating the last hour or so: The catalyst doesn't actually defeat the reapers directly - it nullifies indoctrination. Everyone who was under the Reapers' control is suddenly cut loose, their troops fall like puppets or are completely confused, and the Reaper fleet is thrown into chaos. They still need to be defeated conventionally, and how well they are defeated depends on your war assets score. If it's high enough, it's like the suicide mission - everyone gets to survive. When you are eradicating the last Reaper they say something ominous like 'You think this defeats us? You have no idea what we truly are' or whatever so they remain a mysterious malevolent force that can keep Gannoning the Hyrule.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:35
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My fanfiction was that the Crucible allows you to control the mass relays, isolating the reapers and allowing you to divide and conquer. That way, an entire game spent building an alliance, mobilizing forces, and rescuing survivors actually feels like it means something.
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Apr 9, 2020 20:13
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My head canon is that the people who wrote the codex were going for Indoctrination Theory but the leadership just read that German kid's letter and went  .Anywho, looks like ME:A was bad enough to kill the likely reboot prequel featuring Anderson/Saren. 
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Apr 10, 2020 04:30
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Hey, here's how to make a new mass effect game ignore mass effect 3
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Apr 10, 2020 11:32
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That's what they did with Andromeda and it was cowardly + resulted in a stupid game nobody liked. If they have to make another Mass Effect game they should acknowledge the endings to ME3 in a meaningful way that advances the story or else it'll be endless prequels and side stories with no stakes.
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Apr 10, 2020 11:34
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exquisite tea posted:That's what they did with Andromeda and it was cowardly + resulted in a stupid game nobody liked. If they have to make another Mass Effect game they should acknowledge the endings to ME3 in a meaningful way that advances the story or else it'll be endless prequels and side stories with no stakes. E: Ah yes, "stakes", the thing Mass Effect needs more of. Maybe instead of a thing threatening the galaxy it should be the entire universe, no, multiple universes next time 
orcane fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 12:13
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"Meanwhile, this other thing you never heard of was happening 2mil light years away" is about the most transparent sidestep to ME3 you could do given the circumstances. It's not the only reason why Andromeda was bad but it certainly contributed to the blandness of the setting, all the story beats directly ripped off from Mass Effect 1, and serving up memes in lieu of actual character development. The stakes don't have to span the entire galaxy (even though they still kinda do in Andromeda) but they should probably feel connected or meaningful to everything that came before instead of being so bad it canonically killed all the Quarians due to catastrophic badgame failure.
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Apr 10, 2020 12:19
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You don't actually have to alter the MEA plot much to make it a direct sequel that connects it to "everything that came before" and take ME3's poo poo heap of a plot into account. I'm thinking this could even have been cheaper/easier by the time they had to abandon the procedurally generated exploration game they set out to make, but of course by then it was too late to do anything about it. That would make it a ~true Mass Effect~ game by your standards but it still wouldn't fix any of the issues the game has and make it a better game. MEA being bland was entirely on the devs making a bland game (ie. running out of time and going with what they know worked before in the least imaginative way short of directly remastering the first game).
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Apr 10, 2020 12:34
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But that's exactly what I'm saying: Not being able to advance the story or established races of Mass Effect directly contributed to Andromeda's failure to create an engaging narrative. Bioware knew they obviously had to bring back some elements of the original series, but because they couldn't build upon those elements in any meaningful way, you ended up with a plot and characters that were effectively in meme stasis from what people remembered about them in 2010. Krogans like to fight! Salarians are quirky! Asari Commandos are real badasses, did I tell you I trained with them?! It's such a lazy retread that this bold new galaxy doesn't feel that new at all. Obviously a direct sequel to ME3 could have been equally inadventurous, but Andromeda was already hamstrung by its core concept. If this is how all future potential Mass Effects are going to dance around ME3, then I would rather they just not be made.
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Apr 10, 2020 12:49
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exquisite tea posted:I would rather they just not be made. I think you'll get your wish.
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Apr 10, 2020 15:12
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ashpanash posted:I've wrote about this before - here's my pitch to fix the end of Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect universe, keeping all the game's assets and horrible decisions but just updating the last hour or so: Pretty impressive how you actually managed to come up with a worse ending than the writers.
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Apr 10, 2020 18:18
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Admiral Ray posted:The easiest thing, creatively, is to choose an ending and retcon the parts that make it fuckin' stupid.
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Apr 11, 2020 01:53
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Mymla posted:Pretty impressive how you actually managed to come up with a worse ending than the writers. Yeah, I got $0 for it, too
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Apr 11, 2020 05:31
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just to be explicit, the core concept of andromeda is fine imho: exploration of the unknown aboard giant sleeper ships is sci-fi as gently caress and is well at home with the pulpier elements of mass effect it's really the core motivation for embracing that concept, a lethargic desire to preserve the old galaxy past its expiration date even tho it had long since gone bad, that's at fault and it's ultimately that motivation which pushed the new setting down a sad road because the desire to preserve moves in a very different direction to the idea of exploring a bold new galaxy where anything goes and the old systems, institutions and histories are millions of light years behind even a lot of the older, minor concepts like everyone having roughly equivalent tech, which doesn't make sense in a galaxy without the milky way reaper cycle, were lazily ported over anyway because andromeda's writers weren't interested in actually exploring the new idea they created - they just wanted a soft reboot that maintained a certain feel and certain dynamics i can be optimistic enough to think that a smart company can learn from its narrative mistakes but i don't know how well positioned bioware is to do that anymore - i can believe that a lot of andromeda's mistakes came out of a troubled development cycle that put technology first and writing last but i don't know if bioware's going to actually fix its process, which has whiffed an awful lot lately, or just continue to latch onto quick-fix superficial solutions while keeping development issues in its blind spot
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Apr 12, 2020 00:09
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Mymla posted:Pretty impressive how you actually managed to come up with a worse ending than the writers. It was fine other than the last paragraph honestly, would have been a step up from what we got.
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Apr 12, 2020 00:36
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It also might have been interesting to explore the concepts of colonization, empire building, and the cost of encroaching on already occupied lands, but welp! 
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Apr 12, 2020 02:57
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orcane posted:Never stop defending the precious, infallible, misunderstood writers of Mass Effect (3) Never forget about the bad thing in video game
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Apr 30, 2020 16:36
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Halloween Jack posted:My fanfiction was that the Crucible allows you to control the mass relays, isolating the reapers and allowing you to divide and conquer. That way, an entire game spent building an alliance, mobilizing forces, and rescuing survivors actually feels like it means something. you blew up the relays, the things which, along with the Citadel were the means of controlling the growth and self-determination of galactic civilization for millions of years!! how does that not "mean something"?? me3 was a problem of execution. the destination was not only fine, it was precisely where the story should have ended (specifically the control/destroy choice, i'm not touching synthesis right now, which has further issues of execution). the problem was the journey there. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Apr 30, 2020 |
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Apr 30, 2020 17:24
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Blue red or green Jell-O sir
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Apr 30, 2020 18:19
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Feels Villeneuve posted:you blew up the relays,
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Apr 30, 2020 18:58
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Halloween Jack posted:My fanfiction was that the Crucible allows you to control the mass relays, isolating the reapers and allowing you to divide and conquer. That way, an entire game spent building an alliance, mobilizing forces, and rescuing survivors actually feels like it means something. I don't think that works though. The Reapers are clearly shown to outfight any individual ship, and if I remember rightly there was a Codex entry stating that you needed 4 capital class ships to have a hope of taking one down, though I don't recall if that was a Reaper Destroyer or one of the big ones. See also an entire human fleet being sacrificed so that parts of one could escape. There were victories, yes, but it seemed like it was made pretty clear that they were aberrations in an otherwise doomed effort.
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May 1, 2020 03:32
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orcane posted:They didn't really ignore it and it's not why Andromeda wasn't great. Use the Logan rule. Drop the stakes. Kotor II handled the different endings thing relatively well, I thought, so just make a game set in the Mass Effect universe after the fact that deals with the new challenges of being in a devastated galaxy. But now you're just trying to save your abuela instead of the universe.
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May 1, 2020 03:37
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orange juche posted:Blue red or green Jell-O sir i choose instead to imagine i ate cheesecake
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May 1, 2020 04:06
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I don't think that works though. The Reapers are clearly shown to outfight any individual ship, and if I remember rightly there was a Codex entry stating that you needed 4 capital class ships to words words words etc etc yada yada Y'know the actual purpose of a game telling the player that all conventional methods won't be enough to stop the enemy? So that the player will feel satisfied when they do end up finding some method that will stop the enemy. That's it. It's Gandalf going on about how scary Sauron is, it's Palpatine waxing poetic about how he's totally unstoppable, it's friggin' Jafar crowing about how he's the most powerful being ever. It's setting up how difficult it will be to obtain the goal of the storyline, so that the audience feels the utmost sense of catharsis when the heroes pull it off anyway. Trying to read into it any more than that is them trying to outsmart their own story for some reason, probably to make bold claims about how shooting yourself in the foot is actually super groundbreaking. So a big machine you build to destroy all Reapers instantaneously is completely appropriate. A big gun that you the player shoot at the Reapers that explodes their faces is completely appropriate. Overwhelming the Reapers through the power of galactic friendship, more galactic and more friendly than there ever has been before, is completely appropriate; no one would've batted an eye (in a good way) if that's how the series had in fact ended. If we take the diegetic concept that the Reapers are literally unbeatable by any achievable means as a face value blueprint for this series then we should've stopped playing back in ME1 when you crashed your Mako through space magic and then pimpslapped a Reaper to death through sheer testicular fortitude alone. The only reason the story told you that you couldn't do it is so that you can do it. Is that predictable? Is that milquetoast? Or is it just writing your story well? Because a story that you can foresee the general outcome of simply means that it's being true to its setup. That doesn't mean there aren't twists and turns, but those twists have to be satisfying in context. If you want to, for some reason, have the genre-flouting upheavals that make it as difficult as humanly possible to actually make more games after this one, then you also have to go through the effort of setting those twists and turns up well through the 100+ hours of gametime that you had available. Honestly, the closest things that modern genre fiction got to establishing a truly pyrrhic, but-at-what-cost, bulldoze-the-worldstate payoff at the end of their gray-scale narrative was Battlestar Galactica and Game of Thrones and both of them also hosed up their attempts so ineptly that they'll never be remembered as anything more than bad memes now. Maybe people should just stop trying to do...whatever it is that these things are. G̸̹͈͚̈́o̶͇̣̼̐̈́̊̑̐͜d̶̨̳͓͓̜́̚ ̸̢̛̠̲̀̀I̷͚͇̾̌ ̴̣̺̬̞̦̇̾̍l̵̪͙͎͔̊ṍ̵͇̖̩̏̀͜͜͝v̷̜̪̘̫̋̉e̵̡̤͒̍͐́̅ ̶̻͍̖̻͂̇̃͝M̴̰̣̾̚͝a̷̭̺͂͂͝s̴̼͈͇͉̙͋̒̽̿s̵̰̻̄͗ ̸͋̈́͜Ě̸̠̙̮̺̈́̑͆f̷̲̟͉̰̯͗͑f̸̛͓̲̊̈́͝ͅȩ̶̹̰̋̿c̸̹̹̍̉ͅt̵̟̟̤͔͚̋̀̑͊
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May 1, 2020 14:10
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If you like Greek food Assassin's Creed Odyssey is a lot better than rear end Defect
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May 1, 2020 15:07
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I know, it's 67% off on Steam right now! I never managed to finish it but I probably will now. 
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May 1, 2020 15:29
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Odyssey is the best ME game since 2 and Kassandra is a fine successor to Shepard (not MaleShep).
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May 2, 2020 05:36
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Odyssey is the best ME game since 2 and Kassandra is a fine successor to Shepard (not MaleShep). Shepard's never forced to marry a guy and have a baby with him, so Odyssey will always be an awful game.
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May 2, 2020 12:17
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the achivement was called "Growing Up" lmao
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May 2, 2020 12:39
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