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wormil posted:Bourbon barrels are charred to get the vanilla flavor, might have better luck going that way than just toasting in an oven.
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Apr 30, 2020 19:21
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For home use, wood spirals for beer brewing and a nitrogen infusion setup works pretty good for wood flavored spirits. Can't quite imitate the complexity of aging but it's not unpleasant
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Apr 30, 2020 19:24
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Infinite Karma posted:If there were a shortcut that didn't involve aging your alcohol in single-use (for bourbon anyway), precision crafted wood barrels for years on end, losing a significant portion of the spirit to evaporation... wouldn't all whiskey be made that way? I'm not the person wooding vodka but no doubt there are ongoing experiments in alternative aging methods. I brought up charring because that's what gives bourbon it's signature vanilla flavor and I'm not sure that just soaking alcohol in wood chips will do much other than give you woody alcohol.
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Apr 30, 2020 20:22
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You can get bourbon barrel chunks for barbecueing, maybe you can use some of those?
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Apr 30, 2020 23:10
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You could char white oak sticks with a torch. I imagine there are others who have tried it.
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Apr 30, 2020 23:56
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Infinite Karma posted:If there were a shortcut that didn't involve aging your alcohol in single-use (for bourbon anyway), precision crafted wood barrels for years on end, losing a significant portion of the spirit to evaporation... wouldn't all whiskey be made that way? Well, no, not necessarily, because you wouldn't be legally allowed to call it whiskey for one thing. Also, I question the assumption that something is impossible to do just because it hasn't been done yet. And there are indeed a bunch of people making shortcut whiskey right now (to greatly varying degrees of success), it's just generally not very good (usually they circumvent the US rules by putting it in an actual barrel for a very short length of time). Just as an example, if you take a bunch of quality new make and put it in a large, stainless steel tank with the correct number of charred staves for a few years, you can probably achieve a result that is very much like traditional whiskey. Though again, you wouldn't legally be allowed to call it whiskey in most jurisdictions. Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 01:34 on May 1, 2020 |
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May 1, 2020 01:30
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But if the shortcuts were good, then the big producers would want to use them to save money, and then the rules about what can be called whiskey would change.
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May 1, 2020 02:25
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good jovi posted:But if the shortcuts were good, then the big producers would want to use them to save money, and then the rules about what can be called whiskey would change. You might get a spirit that's similar to traditional whiskey with a weird method like stainless steel tanks and charred oak staves, but if that actually tasted good and was faster and cheaper than building a giant rickhouse and piling barrels up for decades, we'd see that non-whiskey moonshine on shelves somewhere. And eventually they'd probably start calling that whiskey because the traditional methods are deprecated. If you want to do it at home, probably look at buying an empty barrel and some white spirit and aging it yourself? You could even do it solera-style and continuously refill with new spirits that mix with the aged stuff.
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May 1, 2020 03:01
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Big producers don't want to screw with the status quo. Their brands and supply chains are tied to the traditional methods, and the accompanying barrier to entry is a big bonus. There are producers who sell the shortcut stuff already. Some of the "store brand" stuff at Total Wine is made that way (with the "TerrePure Method"). It tastes terrible, but even if it was decent I doubt any of the major brands would want to be associated with it.
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May 1, 2020 03:13
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It’s funny all this “do it yourself barrel aging” stuff popped up, because I just went down this rabbit hole-https://chasethecraft.com/stillit/videos?offset=1574374736474 I hope I am not re-posting this.
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May 1, 2020 03:55
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You can buy staves and stick them in bottles. I got a bunch for Christmas. They’re a fun way to experience alcohol. Buy an ol’ cheap fav and stick one in and try it over the course of a couple days (or even a week or two.) Sometimes they can rescue a terrible bottle like Toki! I just recently bought a bottle of 1792 Full Proof and it has waaaaaaay too intense of a burn, so I stuck one in and by day three it became a much more pleasant drink.
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May 1, 2020 04:58
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Vox Nihili posted:Just as an example, if you take a bunch of quality new make and put it in a large, stainless steel tank with the correct number of charred staves for a few years, you can probably achieve a result that is very much like traditional whiskey. Though again, you wouldn't legally be allowed to call it whiskey in most jurisdictions.
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May 1, 2020 09:37
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Sure there's a bit of "magic" in whisky maturation, but I don't think anyone seriously believes it's actual goddamn magic. We may not have a full understanding of what's occurring at the molecular level over the course of a several years (I sure don't). Not that anyone in this thread said so, but to say it will never be faithfully recreated artificially is pretty short-sighted imo. Even something that gets you partially there would be a significant development. Maturing whisky is one of the worst possible business ideas... "Hey bank, can you lend me MILLIONS of dollars to make this literal poison now. I hope it'll taste good enough to be worth even MILLIONS more in a loving decade, yeah btw I can't pay you back until then." zmcnulty fucked around with this message at 10:08 on May 1, 2020 |
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May 1, 2020 10:02
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You're reading too much into my statement. I've never called it magic or even referred to craftsmanship, and I'm not saying it can't be done in alternative ways. I don't use artificial as a term here because it's all inherently artificial but what I am saying is that vatting staves isn't likely by itself to get you there. There are way too many confounding factors than merely wood type and aging time. This is the statement I'm disagreeing with "take a bunch of quality new make and put it in a large, stainless steel tank with the correct number of charred staves for a few years, you can probably achieve a result that is very much like traditional whiskey."
Yuns fucked around with this message at 10:10 on May 1, 2020 |
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May 1, 2020 10:07
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What if you varied the level of submersion of staves in the whisky to adjust the level of interaction, the nuclear reactor approach, huh edit: in any case i'm just shitposting, I agree staves alone maybe wouldn't do it
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May 1, 2020 10:14
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To interrupt alternate production methods for a bit (though my take on this is - none of the producers would be caught alive doing it because whiskey IS a premium drink and it'd lose status if it was made with shortcuts). For those of you in the UK who like to adventure with some serious drams on a budget, I'd like to recommend Master of Malts dram of the month club. I've been doing it for nearly a year now, enough time to get a good impression, and it's worth it - even on the 29.95 a month, you're seeing drams from £100+ bottles in the mix. As an example, one of my drams for this month is the Balvenie 21 Portwood that I'm hugely looking forward to. https://www.masterofmalt.com/dram-club/ They used to do some premium ones at 50 a month and a 100 a month that came with ludicrous drinks, but they seem to have discontinued those lines. The company also does offer individual drams of a lot of stuff as well if there's something that catches your interest.
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May 1, 2020 12:22
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Vox Nihili posted:Big producers don't want to screw with the status quo. Their brands and supply chains are tied to the traditional methods, and the accompanying barrier to entry is a big bonus. I read the six-month pressure treated bourbons are okayish, but that's a lot of trouble to go to for an inferior bourbon. It's fun to experiment with "aging" grain alcohol and moonshine and I'm sure there are some bearded hermits out there making exceptional moonshine whiskey that really nobody can get their hands on, but I have trouble seeing anyone get any kind of solid whisky out of anything but a lifetime of trial and error or a goddamned lab. It's probably more worth it for helping terribly whiskey (that you get as a gift at christmas from your clueless but well-meaning family because you're "a whiskey guy") be more drinkable, and I think I'm gonna experiment some with that as well. That said I really wish I could find out what kind a drink you'd get from aged distilled local malt beer or mead.
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May 1, 2020 14:55
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I tried some of the rapid aged stuff at a tasting a while ago. They did it blind so you didn't know which was which. I picked/guessed correctly, but my father had trouble deciding which one was which. It lacked a roundness to it for me that made it stand out. I wouldn't drink it straight but it likely wouldn't be bad in a highball. Of course at the prices they wanted you'd have to want to drink it straight.
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May 1, 2020 18:39
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Yuns posted:While I generally agree with your points, I disagree with this statement. A lot of what affects whiskey and its aging are the imperfections of the process and the historical artifacts of how its made. A perfect process with steel vatted whiskey and some staves based on what little I know would lose a lot of the elements that determine the flavor. You wouldn't get the concentrating loss of the water in bourbon or the diluting loss of alcohol in scotch. You wouldn't get the effect of the temperature and humidity and seasonal cycles on both the whiskey and the storage media, the barrel. There is a reason why rickhouse location matters. There are a number of reasons why just vatting distillate with staves isn't the same. There is a lot that goes into the traditional aging process and I don't want to imply that a simple charred staves in a vat aging method would produce identical results, just that you could probably achieve a very rough approximation if you are willing to go through years of trial and error during which you tweak the input variables (e.g., you could allow a certain amount of evaporation and gas exchange through a semipermeable barrier). You can also likely achieve most of the location-based inputs through modern warehouse climate control (consider that most high-end wine is aged in climate-controlled warehouses to achieve results much akin to aging in a "wine cave."). And while American whiskey is almost exclusively made in freshly charred barrels of uniform size, Scotch is aged (or "finished," which is to say "aged in part in") in a wide variety of containers ranging from 50 liters (quarter cask) up to 600+ liters (port pipes) or even larger marrying tuns, and such vessels are often used many times--to the point where they are almost neutral vessels (which you can see and taste in Scotch that is aged in barrels used 3+ times when coloring is not added). This suggests to me that there is a significant amount of variation possible in the aging process without departing from what is recognizably whiskey (although most consider under-oaked or over-oaked whiskey to be largely undesirable). At the end of the day it all just boils down to being a relatively complex chemical engineering question. Whether it's economical or otherwise advantageous to pursue this sort of thing is of course it's own question, and so far the answer has pretty clearly been "no." Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 01:16 on May 2, 2020 |
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May 2, 2020 01:08
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I found myself a bottle of Larceny Barrel Proof this morning, so in honor of "derby day" I treated myself to a blind wheater flight and took some "bad" tasting notes on the 4 wheaters I have in my cabinet right now (other than my unopened RC6) Bottles: Larceny Store Pick 92p, Larceny Barrel Proof A120, 123.2p, Old Weller Antique store pick (old bottle) 107p, Makers Private Select 111.3p (I can list the staves if requested) All of the store picks were the same store My nosing and tasting ranked the same A: bright sweet nose, sweet fruit, soft, candy, light, cream soda B: oaky nose, caramel, butterscotch, heat, molasses C: acetone and floral on nose, thin, wheat, sugar, more heat on finish than expected, inoffensive D: "basic bourbon" nose, light upfront heat, vanilla, hints of orange, brown sugar, bitterness with a hint of dill Tasted forward and reverse after a pallate cleanse Ranked: #1 A, #2 B, #3 D, #4 C A - Guess: Makers Private Select; Result: Larceny Barrel Proof B - Guess: Larceny Barrel Proof; Result: Makers Private Select C - Guess: Old Weller Antique; Result: Larceny Store Pick D - Guess: Larceny Store Pick; Result: Old Weller Antique I really liked this Maker's pick before this tasting, so I'm happily surprised that the Larceny Barrel Proof came out on top. I may pick up another bottle since the store I found it at had 4 My guesses were probably a bit biased on me "not liking" OWA because it was a $30 bottle that costs $50-60 now. Also, I thought A and B were leagues better than C and D regardless, but it still wasn't too hard to rank them all
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May 2, 2020 21:05
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I haven't tried Larceny barrel proof but the regular Larceny has become one of my go to basic everyday Bourbons.
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May 2, 2020 22:01
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I'm finding myself deciding between Four Roses Single Barrel and Talisker 10. The Talisker is on sale for $54.99 right now. My Gentleman Jack is almost out, and I'm not picky when it comes to good brandy/scotch/whiskey - I haven't found anything I haven't liked, aside from cheap poo poo that feels like it's burning my sinuses and throat out. All things being almost equal price wise, what are their main differences?
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May 2, 2020 22:24
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LifeLynx posted:I'm finding myself deciding between Four Roses Single Barrel and Talisker 10. The Talisker is on sale for $54.99 right now. My Gentleman Jack is almost out, and I'm not picky when it comes to good brandy/scotch/whiskey - I haven't found anything I haven't liked, aside from cheap poo poo that feels like it's burning my sinuses and throat out. All things being almost equal price wise, what are their main differences? They're worlds apart Talisker is going to be a balanced scotch leaning less sweet but with strong smoky and briney flavors with some tree fruit (apple, pear) flavors Four roses single barrel is a bourbon with more heavy oak and vanilla with more cherry and nut flavors
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May 2, 2020 22:32
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LifeLynx posted:I'm finding myself deciding between Four Roses Single Barrel and Talisker 10. The Talisker is on sale for $54.99 right now. My Gentleman Jack is almost out, and I'm not picky when it comes to good brandy/scotch/whiskey - I haven't found anything I haven't liked, aside from cheap poo poo that feels like it's burning my sinuses and throat out. All things being almost equal price wise, what are their main differences? Like Deceptive Thinker said, they're very very different; Four Roses is going to be relatively similar to Gentleman Jack, they are both Bourbons. Talisker 10 is an Islay Scotch with strong smoky smell and flavor, but an otherwise lighter body. It doesn't taste like Johnny Walker. If you haven't tried Talisker, I think it's a great whiskey and the better choice, but you might hate it.
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May 2, 2020 22:47
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I just opened a Larceny BP and it is hot with no punch. I'm going to let it breathe for a week or two and try again but I was severely underwhelmed. And I love wheaters. Also I need to do a wheater-off too.
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May 2, 2020 22:56
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Talisker 10 is good but imo nowhere near the sort of smoke from Laga, Laph, or Ardbeg that many associate with Islay. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of taste. To me, it is more salty and sweet, like eating a pear rinsed in the ocean. 4R Single Barrel is fantastic and my personal favorite bourbon. If I had to choose, I'd either get the 4R or a different Islay scotch, since Talisker 10 is pricey here.
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May 2, 2020 23:01
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Agreed. 4RSB remains my absolute favorite bourbon at the price point (31.99 locally). Also, was at my local shop and they had a sign up limiting customers to 1 bottle of Buffalo Trace per transaction. Is BT getting harder to find or something?
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May 2, 2020 23:09
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Gravitee posted:I just opened a Larceny BP and it is hot with no punch. I'm going to let it breathe for a week or two and try again but I was severely underwhelmed. And I love wheaters. This was basically my notes for the store pick larceny, despite the low proof I think my next blind I may do a the Larceny BP, ECBP, 1792 FP, and a strong 4R pick alongside it to see if I'm getting what you are
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May 2, 2020 23:09
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I'm worried Four Roses will be too sweet. Is it sweet? I've heard comparisons to candy, but mostly in the smell. I like Gentleman Jack a lot, I guess I'm looking for something in that general area.
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May 2, 2020 23:19
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I always (ironically) get floral notes from Four Roses but I wouldn't call them sweet. The flavor profile depends on the recipe since they vary wildly.
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May 2, 2020 23:26
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LifeLynx posted:I'm worried Four Roses will be too sweet. Is it sweet? I've heard comparisons to candy, but mostly in the smell. I like Gentleman Jack a lot, I guess I'm looking for something in that general area. The standard single barrel at 100 proof OBSV is going to be more fruity/floral/spicy than "sweet" Gentleman Jack is sweeter tasting IMO but I'd guess it depends on the type of sweet you want/don't want
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May 2, 2020 23:36
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Jack anything is way sweeter than 4R.
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May 3, 2020 00:07
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Infinite Karma posted:Talisker 10 is an Islay Scotch Talisker is from Skye, not Islay.
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May 3, 2020 09:40
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My Four Roses Single Barrel arrived, I had a sip, and it is amazing. Definitely can't wait to try a full glass tonight, not that there are any rules about time right now.
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May 3, 2020 19:57
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So I’m new to bourbon but I like it. I love buffalo trace but it isn’t available near me (Virginia). Basil Hayden isn’t bad. That’s all I’ve really had besides Irish whiskey. What would you all recommend next? https://www.abc.virginia.gov/products/bourbon#sort=relevancy&numberOfResults=12 I’m thinking Elijah Craig small batch but am willing to pick up a few others.
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May 4, 2020 00:42
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nwin posted:So I’m new to bourbon but I like it. Eagle rare is older buffalo trace Elijah Craig, Four Roses Small Batch, Wild Turkey 101, Knob Creek, and Old Forester 100 are probably the direction you want to go with the major distilleries
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May 4, 2020 01:05
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Deceptive Thinker posted:Eagle rare is older buffalo trace Excellent suggestions. I'd also add Makers 46 for a wheated option. If you like Basil Hayden, then Old Grandad Bottled in Bond or 114, which is basically the same stuff but less diluted and at a better price. Even if you prefer to add water, you come out ahead by not paying alcohol prices for the distillery to add water for you (that's how distilleries adjust the proof down). Old Grandad was Basil Hayden's nickname and it's his face on the bottle.
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May 4, 2020 01:15
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nwin posted:So I’m new to bourbon but I like it. As noted previously, Four Roses Single Barrel is incredibly solid at it's price point. For me, when I was just starting to enjoy bourbon neat, it was the one that clicked. Woodford Reserve is certainly worth checking out, as is Larceny (which is a steal at it's price). If you prefer mixed-drinks or highballs, Wild Turkey 101 is pretty solid. Evan Williams Single Barrel has also been surprisingly solid. Finally, I see it listed, but if you can get it, Blanton's is also absolutely worth checking out.
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May 4, 2020 01:20
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java posted:As noted previously, Four Roses Single Barrel is incredibly solid at it's price point. For me, when I was just starting to enjoy bourbon neat, it was the one that clicked. Woodford Reserve is certainly worth checking out, as is Larceny (which is a steal at it's price). If you prefer mixed-drinks or highballs, Wild Turkey 101 is pretty solid. Evan Williams Single Barrel has also been surprisingly solid. Finally, I see it listed, but if you can get it, Blanton's is also absolutely worth checking out. I’m usually drinking it with an ice cube in it or just a bit of water. I did grab some of those huge silicone ice cubes molds today and tried them out. Not sure what I think about them yet.
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May 4, 2020 01:38
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nwin posted:I’m usually drinking it with an ice cube in it or just a bit of water. They are super for drinks, they look cool and don't water them down too much. Make a Maple Fashioned. It's good.
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May 4, 2020 13:23
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