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This owns: https://monthlyreview.org/2007/09/01/the-state-of-official-marxism-in-china-today It's about mostly Chinese academics and the like debating privatization in China. The hot take listing in the middle of the text is incredible. There's some tough competition, but my favorite is: "The United States has companies with millions of shareholders, which is a far more socialized form of ownership than anything that exists in China."
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May 3, 2020 11:34
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uncop posted:This owns: https://monthlyreview.org/2007/09/01/the-state-of-official-marxism-in-china-today It also happened 13 and a half years ago, so we saw what happened. China never actually went through with a full privatization program, but obviously liberalized.
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May 3, 2020 11:41
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Ardennes posted:It also happened 13 and a half years ago, so we saw what happened. China never actually went through with a full privatization program, but obviously liberalized. Yeah, definitely. The text owns because it catalogues how people are bullshitting whatever they want into vaguely marxist language, it's not representative of anything else. It's not even highlighting the kind of event that has anything immediate to do with state decisions, afaict it's more comparable to a think tank event.
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May 3, 2020 11:58
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mfw my 401k is seizing the means of production
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May 3, 2020 12:47
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"stocks are actually socialism" is a great take
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May 3, 2020 13:42
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finally, a quick and easy method to build communism
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May 3, 2020 15:32
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Spartacist Jim Cramer now makes so much sense,
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May 3, 2020 15:34
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May 3, 2020 18:23
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dex_sda posted:"stocks are actually socialism" is a great take I can't find anything from a quick google search, but "widespread participation in the stock market is the way to democratize the economy" has been a recurring anti-Communist slogan from liberals in the US since at least the 1960s I can look it up if people are actually interested
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May 3, 2020 19:15
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when the swedish social democrats actually attempted worker ownership through stock buying they got shut down by capitalist reaction. how odd.
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May 3, 2020 19:18
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by that he meant of course owning the employees.
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May 3, 2020 19:19
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public employee pension funds in the US, especially in California, have actually do have lots of money to invest and are some of the biggest actors in the market. But of course they are completely captured by banks and their actions and governance are obscured from the public.
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May 3, 2020 19:20
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So far as organized stock buying could be conceptualized as a socialist strategy, it's still the opposite of "democratizing the economy" if democracy is to mean wide stock ownership, because it's about buying people *out* of power and replacing them with activists that intend to upend "the will of the people" so to speak and impose their own system of governance. It's a corporate coup. If you happen to have a money printer at your disposal, it's not necessarily a bad idea, I guess.
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May 3, 2020 19:46
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what are the current owners supposed to to with the money you hand them to buy them out of stock ownership.
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May 3, 2020 19:49
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dex_sda posted:"stocks are actually socialism" is a great take it's the matt bruenig strategy lol
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May 3, 2020 20:31
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Ron Jeremy posted:what are the current owners supposed to to with the money you hand them to buy them out of stock ownership. buy a rope
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May 3, 2020 20:49
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For the old argument I can understand markets for small goods but infrastructure and larger items (power, travel, etc) should just be done by the government since privatization doesn't actually benefit anyone. It would also be cool if monopoly rules were very strict and actually enforced but lol no one cares so we have private companies with literal monopolies that do things like shutting off power to California because they're too lazy to do maintenance and know nothing will happen to them and no one has a choice otherwise
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May 3, 2020 20:54
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Ron Jeremy posted:what are the current owners supposed to to with the money you hand them to buy them out of stock ownership. Who knows, but would you want to be one of those guys who are still holding the stock when the coup happens and only workers have power over the company anymore? The stock price would probably collapse in real time when enough people lose trust in that most of the others won't sell.
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May 3, 2020 21:19
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mila kunis posted:when the swedish social democrats actually attempted worker ownership through stock buying they got shut down by capitalist reaction. how odd. crazy how that works!! exmarx posted:it's the matt bruenig strategy lol lol
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May 3, 2020 22:00
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dex_sda posted:"stocks are actually socialism" is a great take Well they do represent ownership and I remember reading something about the means of production
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May 3, 2020 22:10
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exmarx posted:it's the matt bruenig strategy lol i was about to hit reply and slam post this, but figured someone else would beat me to it. thank you
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May 3, 2020 22:14
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exmarx posted:it's the matt bruenig strategy lol Bruenig_fishmech.jpg
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May 3, 2020 22:16
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Karl Barks posted:Well they do represent ownership and I remember reading something about the means of production in theory you could use widely and equally distributed 'stocks' as a way to let people own the means of production on an egalitarian and socialist basis, but at that point they have so little to do with stocks as they currently exist that it seems misleading to call them stocks in the first place. and even then, you'd end up with an economy in which people own the means of production, but you haven't addressed whether or how they control the means of production, like deciding what's produced and under what conditions etc.
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May 3, 2020 22:18
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Algund Eenboom posted:Bruenig_fishmech.jpg found it 
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May 3, 2020 22:25
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Now offering 6.9% APR on socialism, rent 2 own your own worker's paradise
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May 3, 2020 22:27
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while i think matt's ideas on achieving socialism are neither politically feasible to transition to in the way he thinks could happen, nor particularly desirable as an end goal for socialism, i do think it's good he unleashes his fishmechian autism on other blue check marked people in the take-sphere
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May 3, 2020 22:31
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https://twitter.com/VoxPVoxD/status/1256078368568676352
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May 3, 2020 23:13
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Finicums Wake posted:while i think matt's ideas on achieving socialism are neither politically feasible to transition to in the way he thinks could happen, nor particularly desirable as an end goal for socialism, i do think it's good he unleashes his fishmechian autism on other blue check marked people in the take-sphere he's doing good work and wants the right things, even if he might not be advancing the best ways to go about it, it's hard to fault the guy. he's good imo
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May 3, 2020 23:28
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https://twitter.com/vincecable/status/1253020673573871617?s=21
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May 4, 2020 01:53
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i wonder if that person sat down to write a take that would piss Literally Everyone off
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May 4, 2020 03:09
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https://twitter.com/emilyjashinsky/status/1256236547365572608
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May 4, 2020 07:27
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smarxist posted:i wonder if that person sat down to write a take that would piss Literally Everyone off He's a coalition era lib dem, pissing literally everyone off is kind of their raison d'etre
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May 4, 2020 10:05
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lol loving fascists
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May 4, 2020 14:12
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dipping muh toes into fascism to take the temperature
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May 4, 2020 16:21
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lol liberals in media focus on loving socialist podcasters as being the secret alt-right and ignore this kind of poo poo
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May 4, 2020 17:08
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THS posted:lol liberals in media focus on loving socialist podcasters as being the secret alt-right and ignore this kind of poo poo See, Chapo nerds make fun of them, so they are evil instead of simply a modestly funny podcast not worth getting riled up about meanwhile, Matt Stoller is a cryptofascist, but because he has a Respectable Think Tank position, he is above reproach.
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May 4, 2020 17:11
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Lightning Knight posted:modestly funny podcast these kind of extremist positions are undermining the foundations of our democracy
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May 4, 2020 17:37
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Jon Joe posted:these kind of extremist positions are undermining the foundations of our democracy It's me, I'm the person who listened to a couple of recommended episodes of Chapo and was like "eh, it's ok." 
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May 4, 2020 17:42
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Pod casts,
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May 4, 2020 18:06
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GalacticAcid posted:Pod casts, You mean I can listen to a broadcast on my iPod? gently caress that's cool.
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