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Night10194 posted:The fact that it has few or any 'mandatory' abilities to avoid hard-gating your progress and actually makes every build viable is actually pretty impressive from a mechanical standpoint. I love DE but making every build viable is a less impressive achievement when you consider there are very few ways to actually lose once you figure out to always carry healing. Don't get me wrong it's really cool that you have the freedom to make all these different builds and see the effects they have on Harry's personality and how he solves problems, but mechanically there's nothing really to "balance" Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 07:15 on May 4, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 07:12
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bewilderment posted:Kentucky Route Zero is in the same 'genre' as this game but it isn't an RPG. You get a lot of influence on the game through dialogue options. As an early example, you're selecting a character's responses during a phone conversation. But you can only see their response options, not what the person on the other end of the phone is saying, so it's up to you to pick the dialogue options that make for a satisfying story for you. I played Unavowed and it kicked rear end. Not too sure about Torment: ToN because it's a little too much money for something that looks like I might not even finish. I keep meaning to look into Kentucky Route Zero. I don't know anything about it but I keep thinking it's too bleak for me right now, which is ridiculous because how would I know that and also because this is the DE thread, where we talk about DE.
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May 4, 2020 09:31
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Are you specifically looking for RPG's with little or no combat? Or are you looking for other stuff with similar vibes? Edit: as in the story is of the same genre.
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May 4, 2020 09:52
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Ragnar34 posted:I played Unavowed and it kicked rear end. Not too sure about Torment: ToN because it's a little too much money for something that looks like I might not even finish. KRZ is not nearly as good at DE and, all in all, actually kinda sucks. Maybe it was great when it came out, and maybe I should've played it when it was being released episodically, but trying to play it now and it was just a pretentious slog. Albeit with excellent presentation.
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May 4, 2020 10:10
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Horizon Burning posted:KRZ is not nearly as good at DE and, all in all, actually kinda sucks. Maybe it was great when it came out, and maybe I should've played it when it was being released episodically, but trying to play it now and it was just a pretentious slog. Albeit with excellent presentation. oh good I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought this everyone raves about it but I picked it up immediately after playing through disco elysium and the difference in the quality of writing was pretty stark the visuals and the music are very good though
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May 4, 2020 12:56
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I played the first act... 5 yeas ago? And it was cool but it was trying so hard to be art. DE is way more my cup of tea.
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May 4, 2020 13:19
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Fister Roboto posted:Was it seriously all caused by a giant stick bug mind controlling an old commie sniper? It's more satisfying if you look at it as an extension of the theme of regret and recovery than as the key to some elaborate puzzle box.
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May 4, 2020 14:16
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Ragnar34 posted:
For what it's worth, KRZ and DE are extremely different. I love them both (and talking games with good writing, it makes sense they get mentioned in the same breath) but anyone going from DE to KRZ hoping for something similar will be disappointed. DE's writing shines in its reactivity, character evolutions, and it's synergy with the gameplay. KRZ is a slow, moody southern gothic dream with roots in magical realist folklore. DE has gameplay and win/loss conditions, KRZ is just a winding story you help write by choosing character reactions and a few branching vignettes (to my knowledge you can't lose it or fail to progress). To each their own, KRZ is not for everyone, but I do take a little issue with people who call it "pretentious" when it's a sincere character study just told in a different genre than most games. May not be everyone's cup of tea, but there's a lot of heart and compassion in it. In fact, it's a fun comparison with DE because I think DE contains a lot of compassion too, but it's a... rowdy compassion? Angry compassion? Like when you love someone a lot and you get really mad seeing them get hurt? KRZ is more like a sad compassion, like how it feels to watch a loved one waste away from disease. I'm trying to think of other video games I would describe as compassionate. Maaaybe like WANDERSONG or NIGHT IN THE WOODS?
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May 4, 2020 15:48
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i can think of few games to which the word "pretentious" applies less than kentucky route zero. it has the same ideological and artistic bedrock as disco elysium - the writers aren't just pretending to be artsy, they're properly educated in the principles of installation artwork and literary traditions like magical realism and southern gothic, and it shows
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May 4, 2020 16:44
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but the writing's very intellectual so it has to be pretentious
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May 4, 2020 17:43
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The main difference between smart and pretentious writing is whether or not there are undertones of the writer in question profusely jacking himself off in front of his audience.
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May 4, 2020 17:58
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the main difference between smart and pretentious is whether I personally enjoy it or not
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May 4, 2020 19:34
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I'm feeling like enough time has passed that I would really enjoy a replay of this. I'm excited to do it.
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May 4, 2020 19:53
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pretentious usually just means it requires knowledge of cultural bases beyond the usual nerd poo poo, which kzr does both with literature and theater that gets used to flesh out it's visual presentation and atmosphere that's the games main draw
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May 4, 2020 21:47
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Separate question- ignoring gameplay, what are other games with magical realism vibes?
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May 4, 2020 22:21
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FalconImpala posted:Separate question- ignoring gameplay, what are other games with magical realism vibes? it’s a tough qualifier for games because the core tenet of magical realism is the intrusion of emotionally charged fantasticism on mundane reality, and the medium of video games sort of has that level of abstraction baked in already the three that jump to mind first are life is strange, night in the woods, and pathologic
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May 4, 2020 22:36
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What Remains of Edith Finch or The Stanley Parable, maybe?
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May 4, 2020 22:52
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I’d agree with Edith Finch but Stanley is too far into pure allegory to qualify imo, there pretty much isn’t a reality in that game outside of Stanley and the narrator’s mutual torment
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May 4, 2020 22:56
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How about Deadly Premonition?
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May 4, 2020 22:58
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Pathologic 2 (and presumably the original) is basically a fully realized magical realism novel.
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May 4, 2020 22:59
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Hwurmp posted:How about Deadly Premonition? that one too probably imo a major factor in determining whether something is magical realist is if the weird goings on are rooted in the inner lives of the characters. my go-to example is The Satanic Verse, whose characters both suffer identity crises due to mixed national and economic heritages and after miraculously surviving a plane bombing begin to slowly transfigured into divine or infernal shapes, both literally (one of the two grows devil horns) and spiritually (the same character later goes back to normal and then begins to destroy the other one’s life out of envious spite) life is strange fits that criteria best out of all the examples I’ve made - Max’s time rewinding is directly borne out of her desire to fix the tragedy that her emotional distance and procrastination caused, and the events of the game are basically a cosmic psychodrama underlining the uselessness of those powers because she can’t escape the consequences of her mistakes
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May 4, 2020 23:05
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Arrhythmia posted:Pathologic 2 (and presumably the original) is basically a fully realized magical realism novel. yeah even if you disregard the medium-blending with the theatre motifs and such, pathologic 2 is still a story of a healer with a divided heritage and belief system who’s forced to synthesize his practical knowledge with his steppe beliefs, so that he can overcome a disease afflicting a world that still holds “a sliver of the miraculous.” the town mirrors artemy’s internal conflict exactly
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May 4, 2020 23:08
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I think Pathologic goes beyond magical realism - the plague itself started when they literally wounded the earth by driving the support piling for a magical wish granting building directly into the metaphorical brain of the town, and the infection in the wound spread to the bloody earth beneath the slaughterhouse.
wiegieman fucked around with this message at 23:48 on May 4, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 23:42
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I think it would be courteous to use spoiler tags for that considering it's kind of a central mystery of the game. Love pathologic almost as much as I love this game for sure though
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May 4, 2020 23:46
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It's pretentious when it doesn't earn it, is my understanding.itry posted:Are you specifically looking for RPG's with little or no combat? Or are you looking for other stuff with similar vibes? I'm deep inside Bloodstained right now, so I'm not too worried about recommendations, but generally: good writing, runs on gameplay systems I actually like (looking at you Alpha Centauri and Planescape), the story doesn't make me feel like poo poo, and no combat is nice but I realize this is video games. Night in the Woods and Wandersong were good as poo poo. I have played and loved every Supergiant game. Cultist Simulator is amazing except the writer is human filth. Sunless Skies is hard on my hands for some reason and Sunless Seas has left me sick of starving to death while delivering packages to ports I can't find in exchange for not enough money, which come to think of it is my job irl. Look, if you're rich enough to have horses and ATVs and live on a dirt road in an otherwise suburban area, you either shouldn't order pizza or shouldn't get all mad when I show up five minutes late. Sure, call my boss. The nicest consideration you'll get from her is that her response will begin with "unfortunately we" instead of *click*. I imagine it's the same in Sunless Skies, except I am the general manager and I already know and loathe you. Man. I should try Sunless Skies again. Wish the gamepad controls worked better for me. Ragnar34 fucked around with this message at 01:06 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 01:03
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How am I a psychological horror fan who's NEVER heard of Pathologic? Will pick up the sequel as soon as I can (it seems like a remastered version, unless the original is better). It's true that subverting 'reality' is really hard in games, because from the beginning, you understand the limits of its gameplay. There's a few (eternal darkness?) that try to play with that in a meta way- sometimes as unsubtly as giving you a fake crash screen- but I don't think it's done often. I remember Marc Laidlaw of Valve wanting to make Half Life 2 surrealist, but he gave up because "surrealism in games seems as arbitrary as anything else". I wonder if we've reached a point of immersion where it's possible? I'm not sure how to explain it. I got Disco Elysium because someone called it 'the david lynch game' and I'm not sure why, but it fits. What is it about interrogating a corpse that hits that nerve so well?
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May 5, 2020 01:30
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FalconImpala posted:How am I a psychological horror fan who's NEVER heard of Pathologic? Will pick up the sequel as soon as I can (it seems like a remastered version, unless the original is better). Definitely get Pathologic 2 - it's much more polished and develops the ideas from the first game much better. The original is interesting for historical reasons but I wouldn't recommend it over the sequel. As for surrealism in games, I think the reason Disco Elysium is able to pull it off well is because it deliberately grounds you before pulling the rug out. Like it's always weird, but in a realistic way of just having people with odd personalities. The thing about games is that there is a certain bit of surrealism inherent to them because the rules of every game world are different and not always real-world logical, but we are trained to accept them because you have to in order to play the game. So to really make a game genuinely feel "surreal", you have to take that extra step of first introducing players to your game rules and getting them comfortable before you start subverting them. If you just dive right in with nonsense then players will just calibrate to that as "normal". Actually, since Pathologic was brought up earlier, and interesting example of "diving right into surrealism" would be another Ice-Pick Lodge game, The Void. It immediately drops you into a very strange, purgatory-like world where the most valuable resource is colour. It's definitely a surrealist work, but as a game it plays pretty normally, because you just get used to the weird rules and come up with routines to make the most efficient use of your resources. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 01:41 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 01:36
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FalconImpala posted:How am I a psychological horror fan who's NEVER heard of Pathologic? Will pick up the sequel as soon as I can (it seems like a remastered version, unless the original is better). Definitely pick up 2 over 1. It's a remaster of 1 of the 3 stories of the original, and the devs swear on the bible that they'll get out the other 2 characters eventually.
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May 5, 2020 03:57
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Arrhythmia posted:It's more satisfying if you look at it as an extension of the theme of regret and recovery than as the key to some elaborate puzzle box. Yeah that makes sense. The deserter's inability to move on from the revolution reflects Harry's inability to move on from his ex. But I was more talking about the denouement afterwards, with the 41st Precinct mooks. That felt a little off. Probably doesn't help that Cuno was my partner at that point. Like I said, I hosed up a lot. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 07:34 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 07:30
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uh giving a disadvantaged child a future isn't loving up
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May 5, 2020 09:30
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Hell, one of these days I'm going to savescum to make that happen. I haven't yet because, well, the price is just so high.
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May 5, 2020 09:42
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah that makes sense. The deserter's inability to move on from the revolution reflects Harry's inability to move on from his ex. But I was more talking about the denouement afterwards, with the 41st Precinct mooks. That felt a little off. loving up constantly is the best way to play the game imo failing at failing is succeeding after all
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May 5, 2020 12:44
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Arrhythmia posted:Pathologic 2 (and presumably the original) is basically a fully realized magical realism novel. more like a magical realist play, but yeah
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May 5, 2020 12:55
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The Void is imo IPL's best game (or at least was before the pathologic remake?), and was probably my contender for best game-as-art before, well, this one blew it out of the water.
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May 5, 2020 20:05
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Interesting fact about the original Pathologic: there are three player characters, and whichever two you aren't playing as pick the worst dialogue options and take the worst route possible through their story. You really end up hating them by the end.
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May 6, 2020 05:20
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wiegieman posted:Interesting fact about the original Pathologic: there are three player characters, and whichever two you aren't playing as pick the worst dialogue options and take the worst route possible through their story. You really end up hating them by the end. tbh I hate the Bachelor even while I'm playing him
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May 6, 2020 05:33
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:loving up constantly is the best way to play the game imo Indeed. I didn't savescum at all on this playthrough, and I'm glad of it. This game is all about failure - about accepting it and embracing it.
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May 6, 2020 07:19
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This game's formula could be applied in many interesting ways. Like playing as Homer Simpson.
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May 6, 2020 07:21
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Ghost Leviathan posted:This game's formula could be applied in many interesting ways. Like playing as Homer Simpson. Electro-Chemistry: So long, Dental Plan! Empathy: Lisa needs braces!
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May 6, 2020 07:55
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Encyclopedia: Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
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May 6, 2020 08:57
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