|
I don't think it's possible for Joel to redeem himself. There's way too much blood on his hands.
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 04:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 11:15 |
|
|
Mostly I am sort of bewildered by the "a good parent is one who treats their child like an object and never actually speaks to them about serious subjects" viewpoint which is as far as I am aware the exact loving opposite of good parenting. Everyone involved in the situation is being a lovely guardian of a child because at the end of the day they decide that child has no right to know the truth about things involving their life. Having been in a situation with a parent who hid important things from me for a long time which lead to me not having information to act on health issues because they thought it was better for me: Nope. Nu-uh. If you are a parent who does that you're a lovely parent. And to be clear I'm not saying Joel is a lovely parent for not wanting his child to die for others. I'm saying Joel is a lovely parent because he capends that with lying to her face about it (and as far as TLOU2 is concerned, continues to lie to her face about it.) And it isn't just that he lied "it doesn't work." He says there were tons of other immune people and they didn't need her after all. Not only does he lie about her own medical condition but he specifically works to cut her off from investigating more of it. That is unforgivable for any parent no matter how good their intentions.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 04:56
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Mostly I am sort of bewildered by the "a good parent is one who treats their child like an object and never actually speaks to them about serious subjects" viewpoint which is as far as I am aware the exact loving opposite of good parenting. Everyone involved in the situation is being a lovely guardian of a child because at the end of the day they decide that child has no right to know the truth about things involving their life. Yeah, I agree with this. I'm wondering what their relationship is actually like now, because I honestly think it would be best for Ellie if she cut him out of her life after that. Like okay, fine, we can leave it at that, but you don't get to be a part of my life now.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 05:00
|
|
|
Viridiant posted:Yeah, I agree with this. I'm wondering what their relationship is actually like now, because I honestly think it would be best for Ellie if she cut him out of her life after that. Like okay, fine, we can leave it at that, but you don't get to be a part of my life now. At least in the leaked footage they are kind of at weird odds. Ellie keeps questioning Joel about the truth and picking holes in his story and he just gets angry and continues to lie. It's very clear Ellie knows he's lying but she doesn't know the full extent of what happened. Joel also tells Tommie the entire truth at the opening of the game and Tommie seems utterly aghast and basically stumbles around "well there's nothing we can do now." (This also makes it 100% clear that Joel assumed the cure was real and could work and made his decision based off that.)
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 05:02
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Mostly I am sort of bewildered by the "a good parent is one who treats their child like an object and never actually speaks to them about serious subjects" viewpoint which is as far as I am aware the exact loving opposite of good parenting. Everyone involved in the situation is being a lovely guardian of a child because at the end of the day they decide that child has no right to know the truth about things involving their life. I agree with you and I don't think anyone's argued in this thread that Joel lying - or not talking about what happened with Ellie - is him doing good parenting. For myself, what I've said is that the lie his own way of finishing what he did in the hospital - cutting Ellie off from any possible sacrifice. He does it out of genuine care for her, but that doesn't make it good parenting.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 05:04
|
|
|
Stux posted:need to put a moratorium on anything other than completely 100% literal storytelling until gamers have sorted themselves out I'm going to put a moratorium on the bogus characters from the pretentious game with my 24 inch pythons
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 05:10
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:
If this is true this entirely changes my view of his actions in that time for the worse.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 05:21
|
|
|
Wish someone would take this thread to the fireflies and leave it there.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 05:23
|
|
|
Viridiant posted:Me agreeing with one of Joel's decisions doesn't mean I agree with all of his decisions, nor does it mean that there aren't circumstances in which I'd agree with Ellie giving up her life. The situation as presented in the game was not one of those. I always got the impression that the game was not making a judgement either way as far as that decision goes, that they were leaving it up to the player to make a judgement. If the game was in fact saying Joel made a bad decision, then the game presented the scenario badly. 
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 05:58
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Joel also tells Tommie the entire truth at the opening of the game and Tommie seems utterly aghast and basically stumbles around "well there's nothing we can do now." Yeah, it's the very first thing that players see after the "a Naugthy Dog game" title credits. Joel confides in his friend about what really happened and says "maybe I was starting to believe in that cure", later adding "by killing her they were really going to make a cure". He tells his friend this, out of thin air as he's cleaning a guitar. Not only did the writers decide to explain his thoughts on the matter, they're doing it in the very first scene.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 06:19
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:At least in the leaked footage they are kind of at weird odds. Ellie keeps questioning Joel about the truth and picking holes in his story and he just gets angry and continues to lie. It's very clear Ellie knows he's lying but she doesn't know the full extent of what happened. actually tommy tells him that he'd have done the same thing as joel
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 06:28
|
|
|
We have now surpassed Alien vs. Predator 2 levels of spite.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 13:27
|
|
|
Neil Druckman is a degenerate
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 13:57
|
|
|
Stux posted:need to put a moratorium on anything other than completely 100% literal storytelling until gamers have sorted themselves out Just don’t do storytelling at all imo. Games are not art and shouldn’t try to be, like TV they’re supposed to be trashy distractions for your brain that have more in common with cocaine than they do with literature or film. Years from now people will talk about wannabe blockbuster movie crap like Half Life 2 or God of War 2018 as an embarrassing moment in cultural history and only counter strike, Dota, and Doom will be remembered as good games. Edit: and mortal kombat
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 14:35
|
|
|
Starks posted:Just don’t do storytelling at all imo. Games are not art and shouldn’t try to be, like TV they’re supposed to be trashy distractions for your brain that have more in common with cocaine than they do with literature or film. Years from now people will talk about wannabe blockbuster movie crap like Half Life 2 or God of War 2018 as an embarrassing moment in cultural history and only counter strike, Dota, and Doom will be remembered as good games. 
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 14:45
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:We have now surpassed Alien vs. Predator 2 levels of spite. It's like they're making video games based on Uwe Boll movies now
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 14:45
|
|
|
thinking about peter molyneux doing an e3 demo of tlou2, saying poo poo like "every dog in the game has its own family, and when you kill one, its puppy may try to take revenge on you later in the game, and then you'll have to fight that puppy"
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 14:56
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:We have now surpassed Alien vs. Predator 2 levels of spite. 'you've been warned' is a fun tagline because it comes off as trying to be gritty and real but no, people who are put off by so many modern games putting in killing dogs are now genuinely warned off from playing this edgy garbage
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 15:02
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:We have now surpassed Alien vs. Predator 2 levels of spite. This is it, true art, bioshock infinite had better watch out.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 15:03
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:We have now surpassed Alien vs. Predator 2 levels of spite. you killed a dog you a dog killa
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 15:05
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:(This also makes it 100% clear that Joel assumed the cure was real and could work and made his decision based off that.) lol that they felt oblidged to make this explicit after too many nerds read medical textbooks to argue that the fireflies hospital was not correctly sanitised, therefore Joel was right to murder them all and mug off Ellie
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 15:51
|
|
|
Surprised that you have only learned about killing the dogs now since killing a dog and making the owner cry has been a sales and marketing feature for as long as I can remember.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 15:56
|
|
|
Starks posted:Just don’t do storytelling at all imo. Games are not art and shouldn’t try to be, like TV they’re supposed to be trashy distractions for your brain that have more in common with cocaine than they do with literature or film. Years from now people will talk about wannabe blockbuster movie crap like Half Life 2 or God of War 2018 as an embarrassing moment in cultural history and only counter strike, Dota, and Doom will be remembered as good games. dota has never been a good game its clear your opinion is invalid
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 16:11
|
|
|
if john wick seeks revenge and then midway through you play as john wick, it could be good
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 16:12
|
|
|
Haven't seen the leaks, but if Ellie doesn't know Joel was lying in the sequal it'd be stupid. The ending of Tlou 1 was clearly them agreeing on a story they could both pretend to belive in, not one person convincing another.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 16:23
|
|
|
Crimpolioni posted:Haven't seen the leaks, but if Ellie doesn't know Joel was lying in the sequal it'd be stupid. The ending of Tlou 1 was clearly them agreeing on a story they could both pretend to belive in, not one person convincing another. this, tbh. I don't know how you could watch that cutscene and think ellie genuinely believes him.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 16:27
|
|
|
Starks posted:Just don’t do storytelling at all imo. Games are not art and shouldn’t try to be, like TV they’re supposed to be trashy distractions for your brain that have more in common with cocaine than they do with literature or film. Years from now people will talk about wannabe blockbuster movie crap like Half Life 2 or God of War 2018 as an embarrassing moment in cultural history and only counter strike, Dota, and Doom will be remembered as good games. messed up to say doom instead of quake and mortal kombat instead of Street Fighter Three: Third Strike
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 16:34
|
|
|
I always understand that marketing is different personnel with a different (usually shittier) view of the world than the developers but lol https://twitter.com/deathcab4booty/status/1258272469246283777
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 18:10
|
|
|
In a just world this game will get memed to oblivion like all those derivative mk1 clones or all those comics that came after TDKR
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:We have now surpassed Alien vs. Predator 2 levels of spite. Where is this from? This is loving bullshit. It's right there with making you kill children to keep them from warning their parents, what the gently caress. If this is true now I really might not want this game.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 18:36
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:Where is this from? press kits that ND is sending to the press
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 18:40
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:We have now surpassed Alien vs. Predator 2 levels of spite. hopefully they go the Fallout 4 route and have hundreds of dog names recorded that randomly play throughout the game "oh no.... Crotchgnawer oh my god nooo!!!!" glad they worked their employees to death to get this revolutionary new feature in
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:06
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:Where is this from? The gently caress are you talking about, are your kids trained to savage other people?
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:23
|
|
|
Ham posted:The gently caress are you talking about, are your kids trained to savage other people? aren't yours?
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:26
|
|
|
Ham posted:The gently caress are you talking about, are your kids trained to savage other people? if they were, would that make killing them in selfdefense morally fine?
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:28
|
|
|
Brother Entropy posted:if they were, would that make killing them in selfdefense morally fine? I'd honestly rather not discuss killing kids, and making an argument that it's morally equal to killing a guard dog trained to kill humans is some truly broke-brained poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
It's not even the dog-killing part that really gets me, it's the "Watch as you see the consequences of your actions, this human being which loved another creature as they mourn and feel the depths of despair... probably seconds before you slit their throat and watch the blood gurgle realistically out as the spark in their eyes fades away"
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:40
|
|
|
I really hope the dog thing is a joke. The joke being that they are giraffes instead of dogs.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:48
|
|
|
I don't object to the concept of depicting bleak or extraordinarily violent themes in a video game but the way ND has chosen to represent TLOU2 to the press and fans is... not what I would have chosen.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 11:15 |
|
|
exquisite tea posted:I don't object to the concept of depicting bleak or extraordinarily violent themes in a video game but the way ND has chosen to represent TLOU2 to the press and fans is... not what I would have chosen. Agreed, the marketing has had this edgy / tryhard undercurrent. From both the statements on ultra-realistic violence to these features being listed as bullet-points. It's similar to what the Cyberpunk devs have been focusing on with how "mature" their game's themes are because there's drugs and nudity. https://twitter.com/PaweSasko/status/1254190863078633473?s=20
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2020 19:55
|
|