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I'd prefer a Michele win because I like her more and she has this great charismatic energy both in confessionals and when she's on screen (great happy dance, Michele) but I won't fault a Tony win. I go into most finales lately expecting to lose steam halfway through (because the winner usually becomes obvious), so as long as the ending is entertaining I'm good. Yes, I liked S38 because the ending was such a wild ride. Anyway, let's just stand amazed at the fact that 35 days in an All-Winners season and Tony has not received a single vote.
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May 7, 2020 12:49
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I'm definitely coming out of this season thinking way more highly of Michele. Like, I didn't exactly think badly of her, I just really didn't think of her at all. But now I wonder if they really undermined her story in her season, or just did not know how to edit to show what she was or was not doing to end up at the end. That season was really edited as "Aubry's season to lose" in retrospect. But I like her awareness, rationality and clear likeability here.
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May 7, 2020 13:02
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Dugong posted:I think if Nat (or any early edge boot) gets back in they have a shot to win. They will have had around a month to bond with the jury and in the jury’s eyes, voting for the edge returnee validates them staying on that island. These were my exact thoughts this morning. EoE is such a terrible thing for Survivor. The game itself is very adversarial, whereas EoE is very "the group vs. the island" and no real competition. There were two big endurance challenges on the edge. The first firewood collection, which straight up let everyone get fire tokens and there was zero competition and the second coconut carrying one, which still let the majority of them get fire tokens and the only real competition were the two people at the cutoff level. These really added a common struggle that most of the jury has bonded over and the like Dugong says, voting that person to win really validates their own struggle on Edge. Even the limited fire token riddles never fostered a lot of competition or animosity towards each other. So basically whoever returns from Edge will have nothing but good memories from the Jury. That said, Nat absolutely crushed it on Edge, made some smart moves to endear herself even more to the other jurors, and had so many fire tokens it was ridiculous, so I would be ok with a Nat win. I think the winner would be: 1) EoE Returnee if they were there for the endurance challenges. 2) Tony 3) Later EoE returnee 4) Denise 5) Michelle I can't think of a final 3 combination that would have Sarah or Ben win right now. And then my nightmare scenario: Rob comes back from Edge, wins an immunity, uses idol on the other, wins firemaking, then gets all the jury votes. 
nerox fucked around with this message at 14:22 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 14:20
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Nobody is going to beat Tony in a final three
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May 7, 2020 14:22
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IcePhoenix posted:Nobody is going to beat Tony in a final three Ethan, Nat, or Tyson beats him. I think that's it though.
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May 7, 2020 15:04
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Nobody means nobody not a fewbodies
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May 7, 2020 15:10
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Chili posted:Ethan, Nat, or Tyson beats him. I think that's it though. lol if Ethan wins this season that would be such a joke
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May 7, 2020 15:30
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EoE should have tribals as well. Or just not exist. I really don't want to see Ben win but that has to be literally impossible so we good
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May 7, 2020 16:05
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EoE is very bad
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May 7, 2020 16:32
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Lmao why are so many people butthurt about Rob? Is it just hipster contrarianism or what
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May 7, 2020 16:38
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JakeP posted:lol if Ethan wins this season that would be such a joke Just going by perceived likability on the edge. It would comedically rich if Ethan won. As a fan of the game, it would be awful, but he was my favorite when I was a kid so a part of me wouldn't mind.
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May 7, 2020 16:56
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The Bloop posted:Lmao why are so many people butthurt about Rob? i think there is some pushback against his "legendary reputation", he won some dumb bullshit season on his fourth try with a bunch of absurdly poor players and he's been out of the s40 game for more than 3 weeks. Also EoE has been an obvious heavy-handed ploy from its first season to give the players (joe, wentworth) that the producers like a chance to win when they "shouldn't", so folks are not happy about the prospect that it feels like they have their thumb on the scale again. that said, i personally love watching rob play and if he gets back in and makes a run, heck, that's some fun tv and to me it's not worth getting bent out of shape about
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May 7, 2020 17:04
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He just seems so obviously on the survivor pantheon along with ozzy et al I'm pulling for a Tony or Nat win but I won't be upset about Rob at all
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May 7, 2020 17:11
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There's no way at all Tony should be skating through this when everyone knows he has an idol. I thought Nick winning immunity and Tony losing Jeremy would hurt him but it didn't even slow him down, and Nick didn't get it at all. Tony-Sarah is a strong bond, Ben has committed as their third which was dumb but whatever, and then Ben brings Denise. So even though there's no reason at all Michele/Nick/Denise/Ben shouldn't team up to take out the obvious winner threat holding an idol or at least his #2 it's not happening. Now that Kim left everyone is just kind of following the power. The returnee is definitely gonna wake some people up on that, right? Which kind of sucks in a way. I don't like the idea of someone floating in from outside the game to drag down a guy that's dominating. Kind of odd pacing putting that preview at the end of this episode but I guess it means more content in the finale! Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 17:32
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Khanstant posted:this season with fire tokens seems like it wouldve been the perfect time to bring back The Auction. Zesty posted:Now that we're fairly far past Kaoh Rong, only 4 interesting people came out of it. Tai, Debbie, Michelle, Aubry. In that order. Nick's okay too but only on podcasts. The Bloop posted:Not counting the "off days"
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May 7, 2020 17:33
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Tony is some sort of Survivor savant He definitely plans strategically, stuff like keeping quiet about a plan change until right at sundown But mostly I think his personal weirdness just happens to work with these people. It's not something anyone could study, understand, and replicate, so I can't call it a real play strategy. It's just Tony
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May 7, 2020 17:40
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Denise is trying to win but you can clearly see the game fatigue she's talking about is real. "Yeah, let's let Tony get all the way to F4 and then see if we can make him lose in fire" is her plan. It's a very low energy plan that leaves her super vulnerable even if they get Tony into fire. She needs to be flipping over to Michele and the EOE returnee really badly. Sarah and Tony look like legit IRL friends out there and Sarah is just satisfied that she's gotten Tony under control to the point where he's offering her his idol and running his moves by her. I think she can probably beat the other players out there, or at least has a shot. She's pretty blind though if she actually would take Tony to the end. Ben is just dumb but you can see where he's coming from. He's finally found a secure alliance after everyone wanting to vote him out every single Tribal his last time playing, so he's hanging onto it for all its worth. Also, how stupid is it that they bring in the EOE returnee at 5 so you do the F6 vote twice? Do 7 twice and make the EOE person play a little longer! PS: Nat winning would be dumb as hell, I like her but she missed even more of the game than Chris Underwood did. EOE is stupid like this.
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May 7, 2020 17:52
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Popero posted:They're taking a break from EoE after this right? Maybe because both late returnees have won so they can't deny problems with the concept
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May 7, 2020 17:58
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nerox posted:
Your nightmare is my wishful thinking.
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May 7, 2020 18:05
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xbilkis posted:Natalie's winning would be narratively satisfying in that the theme of the season would be "Something promising ruined by bad production decisions" I would unironically love to see Natalie win by breaking EoE getting voted out day 2 and coming back day 35? 36? She must be pissed sitting in all those tribal councils watching them not target Tony.
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May 7, 2020 18:06
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EoE should be gone completely. There's simply no good reason to let a player who has already been voted out back into the game with a chance to win. The whole point of the game was to see if you could not only survive the elements but also if you could survive the social part of the game and that part ends the second you get voted out, regardless of how it happened.
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May 7, 2020 18:16
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I agree that EoE needs to go, but if they are going to put it in the game then I want it to end with the first person voted out coming back right at the end and winning because that's just the logical end point of including it.
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May 7, 2020 18:21
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nerox posted:These were my exact thoughts this morning. EoE is such a terrible thing for Survivor. The game itself is very adversarial, whereas EoE is very "the group vs. the island" and no real competition. And I get it. I think I'm a lot closer to Probst's position than I am the people who hate EoE. I think there's a design flaw in it but I do like that personal journey part of Survivor and miss that from earlier seasons. Tony's fun but I actually enjoy Nat's story more (as well as Michelle's). That's just taste but I get where the idea came from to want to get back there and roll the show back a little from where the game has evolved to. But with a fanbase who still gets mad about Loved Ones visits taking away from scrambling footage it predictably went over like a lead balloon.
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May 7, 2020 18:22
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I think someone *probably* plays an idol at final 6, but if not we could have 3 idols at F5, along with an immunity win. uh oh!
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May 7, 2020 18:24
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Fast Luck posted:Also, how stupid is it that they bring in the EOE returnee at 5 so you do the F6 vote twice? Do 7 twice and make the EOE person play a little longer! PS: Nat winning would be dumb as hell, I like her but she missed even more of the game than Chris Underwood did. EOE is stupid like this. Six is a much less interesting number than seven, too, because odd tribal councils are more dynamic than even ones. (I have not checked this against reality do not @ me). In both 7 and 6, you need four votes at TC. It's a lot easier to get four votes together with 7 people in the game than with 6! I think they do it this way because they want all the EoE people to still be alive at the beginning of the finale, but it's bad game design.
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May 7, 2020 18:38
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Yeah, I think its just designed to fit with the finale. But its obviously the most glaring flaw of the EoE. No one had a problem with Tyson returning, and granted some of that is just people liking Tyson so they'd react differently but I think if he returns now at least some of those people will feel its lame if he won. But they obviously want to make it all part of the finale end game. Ultimately EoE is a production tool, not a game one.
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May 7, 2020 18:47
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Pinterest Mom posted:Six is a much less interesting number than seven, too, because odd tribal councils are more dynamic than even ones. (I have not checked this against reality do not @ me). In both 7 and 6, you need four votes at TC. It's a lot easier to get four votes together with 7 people in the game than with 6! Spokes posted:I think someone *probably* plays an idol at final 6, but if not we could have 3 idols at F5, along with an immunity win. uh oh! 
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May 7, 2020 18:47
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One of my favorite things about last night were both of Michele's reads: (1) to Nick, yes Jeremy is a jury threat, but how the gently caress are you getting to the end now? (2) to Sarah, you know Tony is going to beat you right? This isn't a situation where you are thinking it's unfair to judge the players too harshly because the audience has so much more information, etc. At least one of the players sees it too! I'd love to know what Ben thought the result of a final three with him, Sarah, and Tony would be.
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May 7, 2020 19:21
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STAC Goat posted:I saw some random Probst interview that started up on Youtube after Know It Alls and I think this actually sums up why Jeff likes EoE. He talked about all the push back on the concept and how he loves it and was clearly kind of put out and defensive, but I think he also pretty clearly verbalized that he felt like it was more of a throwback to the way Survivor was at the beginning where it wasn't who can lie the best or who can find the most idols or whatever but more of a "survivor vs the island'" thing. He said he wanted to see the personal journey of someone like Reem who gets voted out first, shows up alone and says "I don't know if I can do it", and toughs it out and lasts til the end. If they like the throwback stuff then they could try dialing back all the twist mechanics + casting fewer Survivor-obsessive people and letting that personal journey stuff play out in the actual game. There was some article where they asked the cast "If you had the power to introduce any twist, what would it be?" and I thought Sophie's answer was great (even if I don't love the "literally only cast people who haven't seen the show before" concept) quote:Okay, this is one I've been preaching for a long time, but I recently rewatched San Juan del Sur, which was Keith's first season, and Keith was incredible. And even Jeff at some point said, "What is it like playing with Keith? Somebody who really doesn't understand the game, he adds a lot of like spontaneity and you can't really predict what he's going to do." My point is, I still think that more and more they've casted a lot of fans who make a lot of big moves. But some of the fun of Survivor is watching people like Keith, who have no idea what the hell they're doing but bring like their own moral compass and their own life to the game. So I would love to see a game of Survivor that is cast at the very last minute from people on the street who have not seen the show before, and throw them out here and see what they do.
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May 7, 2020 19:22
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STAC Goat posted:I saw some random Probst interview that started up on Youtube after Know It Alls and I think this actually sums up why Jeff likes EoE. He talked about all the push back on the concept and how he loves it and was clearly kind of put out and defensive, but I think he also pretty clearly verbalized that he felt like it was more of a throwback to the way Survivor was at the beginning where it wasn't who can lie the best or who can find the most idols or whatever but more of a "survivor vs the island'" thing. He said he wanted to see the personal journey of someone like Reem who gets voted out first, shows up alone and says "I don't know if I can do it", and toughs it out and lasts til the end. I get what you are saying. My favorite reality show is Alone, which is just each challenger versus the environment. But no one votes for the winner at the end of alone, it is simply the last person standing wins. The problem with EoE is its intersection with the game of survivor. Coming back at 6 means you have done nothing but build good will with the rest of the jury for who knows how long. You don't have an easy path to sit in the finals, but if you do you are way ahead of everyone else with friends on the jury. I don't think EoE is completely incompatible with Survivor, it just needs to be re-tooled to where there is some adversity between the people on edge so the returnee doesn't have a bunch of friends sitting on the jury automatically. It's a very hard to balance returning players properly and they have been trying to figure it out for a long time with the multiple returning player gimmicks they have done. I really enjoy watching Survivor still, but the game play has changed so much I wish they would try an old school style season with no returning players where they did pecking order challenges and individual reward challenges that the winner took people with them.
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May 7, 2020 20:04
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Honestly I don’t think anything at all needs to change about EoE. Yes it gives you a massive social advantage if you win your way back in but anyone that still lets you sit in the final 3 knowing that deserves to probably lose IMO. Its very high reward, but also very very high risk unless you’re playing with complete morons a la s38 endgame circus clowns.
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May 7, 2020 20:22
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Yeah that Probst interview contradicts his push for more and more insane twists. It’s weird because I remember in a recent season a big deal was made about the fact that starting tribes would have half as much rice as prior seasons and then next to nothing was shown on it. Just this episode we had the secret scene with the finale six exhausted and not moving. It’s not like the content Jeff is after doesn’t exist, the other parts of the show just crowds out the run time in most situations. Dugong fucked around with this message at 20:26 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 20:23
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Raxivace posted:Honestly I don’t think anything at all needs to change about EoE. Yes it gives you a massive social advantage if you win your way back in but anyone that still lets you sit in the final 3 knowing that deserves to probably lose IMO. Even with that like of thinking, it’s hard to argue it wouldn’t benefit by having them come back at least somewhat earlier than F6. As it stands now, 3 ppl on Edge have an idol. If any of them come back, all it takes is winning 1 immunity challenge and being good at making fire to be in Final 3. It’s hard to say anyone “let you” sit in Final 3 in that instance...they may have not had any realistic opportunity to stop you
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May 7, 2020 20:33
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Dugong posted:Yeah that Probst interview contradicts his push for more and more insane twists. I think it exactly doesn't To him, it's having the cake and eating it too
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May 7, 2020 20:38
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Yeah, I don't think its an either/or with him. He just wants it all and he seemed to feel like EoE let the game happen on one island and the "survival" on another. But obviously the problem is where the two connect. I'd be 100% fine with EoE if it ended earlier. There'd be people who still didn't like bringing a player back or spending time on that instead of strategy, but that would probably meet the personal middle ground I like between "players", "characters", and "people." But for whatever its worth Rob C said on Know It Alls last night that Jeff has told him the Tokens will be back next season but EoE won't. I think they know EoE's been a flop, even if they like it. Keeping it around for the Winners season made sense but assuming they do a newbie season the next few go arounds I don't expect to see it. I think they have their new toy in the Tokens and they can play around with them for a few seasons.
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May 7, 2020 20:39
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I wonder if there is some way to do a legit double elimination without loving up what survivor is Like, a loser tribe you get voted into but it's still a tribe, just with a lovely barren beach and no comforts If you start with 3 tribes of 8 and each had a seperate tribal council vote off, and once it became 4 tribes of 6 the vote offs become "real" again. Something like that, just spitballing here
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May 7, 2020 20:43
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IcePhoenix posted:Nobody is going to beat Tony in a final three Agreed. Whoever comes back clearly will have to try and get him out and if they fail then they look worse than the people in the game who don't know just how far ahead he is. EoE returnee needs to play a perfect game if they want any chance of winning and that includes getting out the Jury favorite.
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May 7, 2020 21:21
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The Bloop posted:I think it exactly doesn't I guess my point is that he’s already got it without edge. That secret scene of the final six pushed to exhaustion could have replaced the edge segment and it’s still the same point of outlasting the elements. It also makes the plot of Denise being over the scrambling make more sense. I am very much on board with a season that has fire tokens but no edge. It’s a much more interesting wrinkle than what they were trying to do than the legacy advantage.
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May 7, 2020 22:12
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I think the fire tokens are a really cool idea that didn't produce a lot this season but have a ton of room to evolve. The big problem with them this season was that everyone was obviously hoarding them because they were waiting for big advantage opportunities so then you got Denise and Nick at the end of it with a bunch just going "well, I guess I'll buy some rice." Once they're more established I think the players will start to set the market and start doing screwy stuff like bribing other players or something. And people have already talked about the Auction which seems like a natural fit. You can really try a lot of different things and as long as you never make it so everyone can buy an idol I think its fine and something fun to play with and see what happens.
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May 7, 2020 22:21
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The area that I will give Sarah credit in is that the group of winners-but-maybe-not-playing-great-right-now being the only people who remain seems largely her doing, with Tony having spent most of the season talking about assembling a War of Lions before deciding to use Sarah's hyenas to toss the lions when they come at him.
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May 7, 2020 22:43
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