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Minidust posted:While not quite as overt or drawn-out as a Roman or Cena, Shawn had a bit of a superman push going on throughout 1996. It was most evident in the commentary booth; Vince was absolutely relentless in putting Shawn over non-stop. I have to figure there was a lot of smark resentment at the time, and the negative reaction on that show was so strong that Vince did a weird promo on Raw the next night about how a lot of people don't like Shawn but he proved he was a man's man in handling the loss, or something to that effect. You know, 1996 was the first full year of the monthly pay per view. Shawn's face character wasn't terrible, there just wasn't really any reason to worry for him, and he became stale. They 'forgot' about his concussion angle, and after going through Cornette's guys, he wasn't in any danger. A face couldn't be a simple Hogan-eque superman for years on end anymore without boring everyone.
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May 8, 2020 18:42
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Shawn wouldn't have had a good top in 96 cause he was 100% a mess both to way too much politics backstage and probably drugs/alcohol but having his face gimmick be a 100% clean cut super hero baby face did him no favors. If they kept an edge and had him be proto DX without being quite as over the top the run might have gone better
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May 8, 2020 18:47
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Minidust posted:While not quite as overt or drawn-out as a Roman or Cena, Shawn had a bit of a superman push going on throughout 1996. It was most evident in the commentary booth; Vince was absolutely relentless in putting Shawn over non-stop. I have to figure there was a lot of smark resentment at the time, and the negative reaction on that show was so strong that Vince did a weird promo on Raw the next night about how a lot of people don't like Shawn but he proved he was a man's man in handling the loss, or something to that effect. There was backlash among adult fans but Shawn was "huge with teens!"
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May 8, 2020 19:08
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Also, his gimmick was basically "male stripper". That's not gonna get the grown men behind you
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May 8, 2020 20:23
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You walk behind me I feel the heat That's why the girls don't walk behind me down the street I'm an rear end Man Yeah I'm an rear end Man Yes I'm an rear end Man
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May 8, 2020 20:52
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Randaconda posted:Also, his gimmick was basically "male stripper". That's not gonna get the grown men behind you
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May 8, 2020 20:57
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jesus WEP posted:excuse me 
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May 8, 2020 21:36
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Randaconda posted:Also, his gimmick was basically "male stripper". That's not gonna get the grown men behind you haha he would even occasionally do these weird striptease bits where he started pulling his pants down while dancing on the ring apron, all the while Vince would be getting uncomfortable on commentary and awkwardly bellowing "hohoho anything can happen in the WWF!!" i grew up in a pretty PG household and this was my closest equivalent to "watchcing a movie with your parents and a sex scene comes on"
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May 8, 2020 22:10
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He's just a sexy boy e: They really need to have wrestlers sing their music, no more corporate rock bullshit they use for everyone. oh and start off with girls moaning first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ErmBDTOJo I always hated Shawn because Bret was the best 
Hirez fucked around with this message at 22:20 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 22:17
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Yeah you had to hear Vince scream THE MOST CHARISMATIC SUPERSTAR IN THE WWF !!! In his over the top promo voice every single Shawn match which would get old quick
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May 8, 2020 22:17
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Minidust posted:haha His original HBK gimmick, with Sherri (where she literally sang his song), was that he was a gigolo, right? That explains the little hat and heart-shaped glasses back then, but .... 5 years later?
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May 8, 2020 22:19
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sham michaels showed his pecker to me when i was 11 in 1997. As a joke
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May 8, 2020 22:30
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Was it funny?
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May 8, 2020 22:34
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Red posted:His original HBK gimmick, with Sherri (where she literally sang his song), was that he was a gigolo, right? That explains the little hat and heart-shaped glasses back then, but .... 5 years later? A weird pastiche borrowing from loosely-related ideas, kinda like Jon Morrison being Jim Morrison but with a Jimi Hendrix theme song.
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May 8, 2020 22:42
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Cavauro posted:sham michaels showed his pecker to me when i was 11 in 1997. As a joke He must be Velveteen’s mentor.
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May 8, 2020 23:06
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Shawn's original gimmick when he was with Sherri could best be described as "Male gigolo with shades of Elvis thrown in for flavor"
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May 8, 2020 23:20
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All of this gigolo talk got me thinking, and I looked it up to confirm, gigolo is an English word borrowed from French and has a feminine counterpart, the gigolette. So the film Deuce Bigalow, Male Gigolo is kind of like if they called Sister Act "Lady Nuns" if the musical was called Female Waitress. The Four Male Horsemen
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May 9, 2020 00:16
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WWF had a real problem in that era taking characters who got over as cool heels or anti-heroes, and trying to make them super happy, smiling babyfaces when they elevated them to the title. It's essentially the same thing they did with Nash a year before HBK.
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May 9, 2020 01:29
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Thanks for the responses everyone! I can see where pretty much all of you are coming from actually. My other thought coming out of Survivor Series 96 was that I rarely hear anyone talk about the Bret-Austin match on that show even though it's really good. I know the Wrestlemania match blows it out of the water in terms of storytelling but I loved how Austin was brawler-scrappy whilst still having an underside where he could tie you up in knots if he wanted to. It was only the fact that Bret has such drat good awareness in the ring that he lost. I know that Austin isn't/wasn't a good person, but he was such a phenomenal performer in both wrestling and getting little bits of his character into his act. So I guess my question is - and this might be more suitable to a thread of its own - what are your favourite matches that don't seem to be talked about very much?
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May 9, 2020 02:31
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Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger, Cesaro, Ryback in a gauntlet match on a random raw. The Bryan v Cesaro part was, too me at least, amazing. Apparently on 22nd July, 2013
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May 9, 2020 12:27
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Custard Undies posted:Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger, Cesaro, Ryback in a gauntlet match on a random raw. The Bryan v Cesaro part was, too me at least, amazing. I gotta say, this is one of the worst usernames I've seen in a while, congratulations.
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May 9, 2020 15:54
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Hedgehog Pie posted:So I guess my question is - and this might be more suitable to a thread of its own - what are your favourite matches that don't seem to be talked about very much? Well, there's a lot of wrestling that's happened in the last 15-30 years that we can all reference, so the criteria for what's talked about might be pretty broad. I'll do a few:  Judgment Day 2005: John Cena (c) vs. JBL, I Quit Match I was never really a fan of Cena, and I never liked any of Bradshaw's matches, aside from one or two. This, however, I enjoyed greatly. Cena beat Bradshaw the month before at the 'Hollywood' WrestleMania in a fairly standard match to become champion for the first time. It wasn't good, but it wasn't terrible - it just was. After that, JBL stole the belt back or something, I forget, but they ended up having an 'I Quit' match to settle the feud. Looking back, maybe they should've had this blowoff at WrestleMania instead, which would've been memorable. This was just a good, solid brawl, where blood (which I usually don't really care about) made sense. I still don't think it's necessary, but I can accept it here. JBL's whole schtick up to this point was running away or having tons of goons; after a long, bloody brawl, Cena gains the upper hand, so JBL thinks he gains the edge by saving himself to fight another day. Nope: Cena clobbers him after the bell anyway, having learned the hard way Bradshaw was a dirtbag.  1996 Royal Rumble I've always loved the Rumble match. Until recently, it was always un-gently caress-uppable. But back in the old days, it was a ton of fun - you had a lot of intertwined storylines, and you got a chance to see lots of different people mix it up. '96 stands out to me, because a lot of lower-tier one-off characters got in there. Kama, the Supreme Fighting Machine, made the final four. Diesel! Hakushi! The Ringmaster! Mr. Bob Backlund! The Head Hunters! Dancing to make a difference Fatu! The main gist was that Shawn Michaels was fighting in the Rumble despite a serious concussion; the person who put him there (in addition to 9 Marines outside a bar), Owen Hart, would be there as well. Plus, hey, Vader was there, Yokozuna, and a garbage man, too! Anyway, the right guy won in the end, and did so by knocking out his best friend, which kicked off a storyline later that night.  Raw from MSG, Sept. 22, 1997: Cactus Jack vs. Triple H, Falls Count Anywhere On paper, the setup to this match doesn't make a lot of sense. HHH is supposed to continue his feud with Dude Love, but instead, Dude and Mankind talk about the matchon the titantron, and introduce a replacement: Cactus Jack. Hunter loses his poo poo to the ref while Jack comes out with weapons. The match was the first time I really recall that level of chaos on live TV. It was an excellent reference point to the amazing match they'd have a few years later at the 2000 Royal Rumble. At the time, this was the perfect payback to Helmsley, and a wonderful homecoming for Foley.  King of the Ring 2001: Kurt Angle vs. Shane McMahon - Street Fight The buildup to this match was kind of odd, if I remember right. Basically, Kurt Angle was competing in the King of the Ring while trying to settle a feud with Shane McMahon, who had announced WCW was coming soon. Shane, at this point, hadn't really wrestled before, if I recall correctly. So, he used the KotR tournament to his advantage: he tried to prolong Angle's tournament matches against Christian and Edge. His interference helped Edge win the crown, so, rightfully, Angle comes into their match pissed off. The Street Fight angle was presumably used to cover Shane's non-wrestling ability, but holy poo poo - I had no idea this match was going to be as bloody as it was. As a match, it's fairly basic: Angle destroys Shane, unless Shane is able to fool him or run away. Angle's exhaustion supports the psychology of the match, with him struggling to catch and KO Shane. He keeps having to push himself harder and farther - leading to throwing Shane through windows and doing a super Angle Slam. It's a tremendous spectacle that's a fun to watch, but a little worrisome considering how Angle dealt with injuries later.  SummerSlam Spectacular 1993: Money, Inc. vs. Steiner Brothers (c) - Cage Match I remember watching this and being blown away by the drama here - just a great, solid tag team match in the classic WWF blue cage. The really amazing part was the finish, where DiBiase makes it to the floor, as does Rick - as it looks as if IRS will reach the floor before Scott, Rick simply gets underneath him, and holds him up on his shoulders. As IRS and DiBiase beat the poo poo out of him, Scott is able to reach the floor, and the Steiners win. Just awesome.
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May 9, 2020 16:16
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Red posted:
I feel like this is the match that gave Shane his pass for a good long time to be in matches because the damage he takes is immense. It’s hella unsettling watching them try again and again to get him through those windows and I remember watching it live and even then feeling like I wanted them to just call it.
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May 9, 2020 16:27
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Hedgehog Pie posted:So I guess my question is - and this might be more suitable to a thread of its own - what are your favourite matches that don't seem to be talked about very much? Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs Triple H and Steve Austin - Raw is War, 21st May, 2001 Most well known for being the match where HHH tore his quad, no longer talked about due to Chris Benoit but this was a really good tag match and as much as people hate on HHH, he went through with the end of the match and was put in the Walls of Jericho after tearing his loving quad muscle.
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May 9, 2020 16:44
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The Senator Giroux posted:I feel like this is the match that gave Shane his pass for a good long time to be in matches because the damage he takes is immense. It’s hella unsettling watching them try again and again to get him through those windows and I remember watching it live and even then feeling like I wanted them to just call it. Yyyyyyeah. It's tough to watch. It's also worrisome considering this was during the time of unprotected chairshots and other stuff, and, I think, a few people went down with injuries at the same time (Austin and Benoit, I believe, and Hunter had just torn his quad a few weeks before), and Angle had a swollen face the next night on Raw. There's a spot where Angle lands on the concrete after a suplex in this match and you can see he's in a lot of pain.
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May 9, 2020 16:48
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Red posted:
I remembered watching this match when I was 9 and was very happy when I stumbled across it on YouTube a couple years ago. It’s on the network now. Solid match. Great ending.
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May 9, 2020 17:55
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Good matches guys.  The worst part about the Shane-Angle match to me is the sound of Shane's head hitting the floor after failing to break through the set. Just a simple smack that makes me shiver. I think Angle damaged his tailbone after the suplex on the ramp? Austin injured his wrist when the debuting Booker T slammed him through the Spanish announcers' table; he actually placed him on it nicely, but there was water on the table and he slipped off it. Thankfully neither injury was as serious as HHH's or Benoit's, and it did give us the highly entertaining segments where they were Vince's wacky goons, but man, just everything that could've gone wrong with the Invasion did go wrong.
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May 9, 2020 19:18
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Red posted:His original HBK gimmick, with Sherri (where she literally sang his song), was that he was a gigolo, right? That explains the little hat and heart-shaped glasses back then, but .... 5 years later? Hedgehog Pie posted:So I guess my question is - and this might be more suitable to a thread of its own - what are your favourite matches that don't seem to be talked about very much?
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May 9, 2020 21:26
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Is there a good video anywhere highlighting Bray Wyatt's NXT swamp cult vignettes?
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May 10, 2020 02:58
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Good matches guys. The few bright spots from the InVasion seemed to fade fairly quickly, too. - Sean O'Haire ended up being packaged into a devil's advocate character that went nowhere, and he disappeared before he died a few years later. - Rob Van Dam got over big time, but needed a few more years before winning the title from Cena (he needed to job to Undertaker and feud with Goldust for some reason), and then blowing that with a drug arrest. - Kidman looked good at first, but disappeared pretty quickly. - Booker T looked like a chump pretty often for the next few years, aside from the 'BookDust' team. He ended up having a lot of success as King Booker, but I personally hated that storyline. He and Angle worked really well together, but then, Angle made everyone look like a champ. - The InVasion pretty much put Angle in as a main eventer, I think. He looked like a million bucks against Booker, Austin, and others - and all while he was one of the few to consistently sell to the WCW/ECW guys. - Lance Storm should've been booked better; WCW proved the serious heel thing would work. The Un-Americans thing was fine, but I have no idea how he arrived at having Austin snore during his matches, a dancing gimmick, then I think, another gimmick where he had a huge penis. At least Storm and Awesome got to work together at a WWF PPV. 
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May 10, 2020 04:26
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The other thing about Sean O'Haire and Chuck Palumbo was that, if memory serves, they were the first invaders to look like total dweebs, despite being WCW tag team champs at the time. They debuted by interfering in a match between the Dudleys and the Hardys, beating up both teams. Then the entire WWF midcard, led by the likes of JBL and Bob Holly, came down and completely battered them, as Michael Cole crowed, "STOP PIGGYBACKING OFF OUR SUCCESS WCW!!".
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May 10, 2020 11:29
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I hated what WWF did to DDP and Booker T. DDP was a take on all comers tough guy and Booker was an athletic young champion the fans were behind. WWF turned them into a stalker and a bumbling Rock wannabe.
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May 10, 2020 13:13
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O’Haire’s Devil Advocate gimmick was several years after the invasion. He was used minimally during the invasion and then sent to either Heartland or OVW for a while before getting that gimmick.
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May 10, 2020 17:33
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:I hated what WWF did to DDP and Booker T. DDP was a take on all comers tough guy and Booker was an athletic young champion the fans were behind. WWF turned them into a stalker and a bumbling Rock wannabe. WCW was trying pretty hard to turn Booker T into a Rock wanna be.
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May 10, 2020 18:11
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DDP being wildly cheered as JR screams what a sicko he is was my invasion top moment.
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May 10, 2020 18:23
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MassRafTer posted:WCW was trying pretty hard to turn Booker T into a Rock wanna be. Yeah? Aside from the Book End, what other similarities were there? I had stopped watching WCW mostly by early 1999.
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May 10, 2020 18:58
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hard to believe the wwe has always been bad but the data is persuasive
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May 10, 2020 19:26
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booker t started calling himself the book for one thing.
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May 10, 2020 19:27
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Harlem Heat intro was an absolute banger, and I just found out Him and Stevie Ray are IRL brothers. I don't know why I've never heard that before, or maybe I just memory holed it. They were so good, better than the Steiners imo during that era. I always wanted a Harlem Heat + 2 Cold Scorpio stable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcoYKlPDH0Y And reading his wiki, it mentioned the Shockmaster (lol Booker T submitted to Shockmaster at Fall Brawl); only to find out WCW rebooted Shockmaster as Super Shockmaster  lolquote:Super Shockmaster (1993–1994) Hirez fucked around with this message at 19:40 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 19:33
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WCW was definitely trying to rip off the Rock and put it on Booker but was all kind of clumsy, superficial stuff. From what I remember he still felt like the same character that had gotten over. When he went to WWE I think that changed. A lot of that was probably just WWE's style of everyone having catchphrases and doing the sing a long promos though vs WCW's.... looser style.
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May 10, 2020 19:34
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