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Definitely try to get a sense of their finance/viability. Lots of companies have big plans for new offices/branches they need to scale back as soon as bills are due. I'd also try to figure out what the launch plans are so you're not working 70 hour weeks doing three people's jobs. Why are you paying to move to take a pay cut anyhow? I mean, there could be good reasons but I'm just curious.
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May 10, 2020 14:35
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Update on my situation for anyone interested: I passed all of the background checks and piss tests. I got a manager title without having to manage people, a 33% base pay increase, and paying less for a HMO than I'm paying at my current/old job for a high deductible PPO.
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May 10, 2020 15:23
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Lockback posted:Definitely try to get a sense of their finance/viability. Lots of companies have big plans for new offices/branches they need to scale back as soon as bills are due. I'd also try to figure out what the launch plans are so you're not working 70 hour weeks doing three people's jobs. People are getting canned at work and I don't feel as secure. Cost of living is significantly lower there. I'm approaching my mid 30s and never lived abroad and would love the opportunity. That sort of stuff. Plus I don't know what the final offer would look like so it's possible at the end of the day it's a lateral move.
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May 10, 2020 15:57
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Macaroni Surprise posted:People are getting canned at work and I don't feel as secure. Cost of living is significantly lower there. I'm approaching my mid 30s and never lived abroad and would love the opportunity. That sort of stuff. Plus I don't know what the final offer would look like so it's possible at the end of the day it's a lateral move. Cool, those are reasonable motives. New offices can be great opportunities but also risky. If everything was equal I would definitely say you should ask for a higher salary due to that risk, but you know the score.
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May 10, 2020 16:12
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Macaroni Surprise posted:People are getting canned at work and I don't feel as secure. Cost of living is significantly lower there. I'm approaching my mid 30s and never lived abroad and would love the opportunity. That sort of stuff. Plus I don't know what the final offer would look like so it's possible at the end of the day it's a lateral move. Moving from what country to what other country? Salaries can be lower since you may not be expected to shoulder some of the burden you get if, for example, you are an American moving anywhere else
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May 10, 2020 17:16
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Lockback posted:Cool, those are reasonable motives. New offices can be great opportunities but also risky. If everything was equal I would definitely say you should ask for a higher salary due to that risk, but you know the score. Well because of the first thing about job security my batna isn't as strong. I should also mention I'm generating other options and looking locally. Goodpancakes posted:Moving from what country to what other country? Salaries can be lower since you may not be expected to shoulder some of the burden you get if, for example, you are an American moving anywhere else America to Japan of course, what other situation could a goon have? Yeah any information about what I can expect would be great. I'm also very curious about Japan's bonus system of earning wages.
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May 10, 2020 17:52
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FogHelmut posted:Excel skills test? All you need to know is SUM, VLOOKUP and sometimes pivot table. If you know more than that you should be getting paid a lot more than $60K. Almost all of my lifelong friends are in IT and none of them had IT degrees either, why should I be any different
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May 10, 2020 18:28
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FogHelmut posted:Excel skills test? All you need to know is SUM, VLOOKUP and sometimes pivot table. If you know more than that you should be getting paid a lot more than $60K. Well, I agree but that is dependent on location. $60k is average for an early career data analysis position in my experience.
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May 10, 2020 18:36
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An etiquette question for the thread. Background: a friend of mine submitted me for a job that is largely up my alley and I've gone through a skills test, a call with HR, a call with the guy whose team I would be on, and then another follow-up call with that guy yesterday to discuss some qualms he had about my skills. To wit, while I've been doing data analysis stuff for a long time in my current role, I have no formal background or education in statistical analysis. So this morning I signed up for a Coursera course on statistical analysis in R, so soon I will finally know what linear regression is and how to use it. My question is, what is the etiquette around contacting my interviewer and letting him know I'm working on this? My friend works at the company and has his email, or I could find him on LinkedIn; would it be out of line to send him a message today or tomorrow? He indicated he's probably going to send me on to the next step regardless, so I'm not sure if this is necessary or not, but obviously in the current climate I would rather do what I can to nail this down as long as it's something that doesn't jeopardize the chance.
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May 13, 2020 20:09
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I probably wouldn't send it. That comes off a bit "I'm making excuses" and likely the decision is already made one way or another. However, it's good to mention on the next step. If you really think it might tip the scales, having it come from your friend is probably best.
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May 13, 2020 21:45
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I think spinning it into a nice anecdote about how your interest was piqued during the last interview, so much so that you took an online course, is better than cold contacting him about it. Drop it in as an aside if it comes up at all. And even then don't make it sound like you were doing it to cram for the next interview, which is what it comes off as in your post. If they need someone with the formal training part of the job, and you don't have it (even if you are good, which I'm not doubting), you're not going to soothe them with a promise to study on Coursera. Consider the course as a genuine skill building activity rather than a way to improve your chances or something to share. Honestly I think it would be weird to highlight a last minute not-yet-completed online Coursera course to a person who already has reservations about your skillset. gamer roomie is 41 fucked around with this message at 22:09 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 22:06
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Lockback posted:I probably wouldn't send it. That comes off a bit "I'm making excuses" and likely the decision is already made one way or another. However, it's good to mention on the next step. Agree with this 100%.
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May 13, 2020 23:16
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gamer roomie is 41 posted:Honestly I think it would be weird to highlight a last minute not-yet-completed online Coursera course to a person who already has reservations about your skillset. concur with this, I think it would probably push me over the edge in thinking that the individual believed that their skillset was insufficient.
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May 14, 2020 14:12
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Lockback posted:I probably wouldn't send it. That comes off a bit "I'm making excuses" and likely the decision is already made one way or another. However, it's good to mention on the next step. Also, if you're going to take a course, the one to take would be on fundamental statistics and binomial probability (if you're not already rock-solid at that). Personally, I'd much rather have someone who knew statistics at the fundamental level inside and out than someone who was skilled at R.
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May 15, 2020 09:52
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I’d say just mention it offhand when you get to the next level.
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May 16, 2020 01:23
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How do entry-level job seekers usually break into their field? I'm a CompSci major who's been applying to all sorts of positions for almost two years since graduation, so I've run the full gamut of people who want unreasonable levels of experience for entry-level pay. I'm really at my wit's end at this point.
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May 16, 2020 17:36
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The easiest way is to know someone. Personally, I spent about 9 months applying before landing my first programming job. I didn't do any internships during college so I wasn't the hottest candidate. Anyway, I found a small place through craigslist and accepted an absurdly low pay. Moved on eventually and I'm doing much better now. I've never had to look for my first job during a global pandemic induced depression so I'm not sure what else to say besides network and consider applying to places that you may consider "beneath you". Best of luck.
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May 16, 2020 18:07
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Well, I've already been trying to find literally any office job for at least $30k and even there it's been the same story. Two years without any progress kinda broke my confidence, so I've been hoping to land something that will get me out of my parents' house and let me continue to improve my programming skills for future prospects. I've been on linkedin for a while now but I honestly don't know where to start on finding worthwhile connections.
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May 16, 2020 18:21
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Vprisoner posted:Well, I've already been trying to find literally any office job for at least $30k and even there it's been the same story. Two years without any progress kinda broke my confidence, so I've been hoping to land something that will get me out of my parents' house and let me continue to improve my programming skills for future prospects. I've been on linkedin for a while now but I honestly don't know where to start on finding worthwhile connections.
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May 16, 2020 18:22
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I'm in Southeast Texas, a bit northeast of Houston. For any office job I'd be willing to relocate most anywhere in the state. For an actual programming career I've been looking all over the country.
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May 16, 2020 18:31
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I’ve been listening in to a few interviews my team member has been doing of mostly new grads and being able to show a curiosity and ability to go beyond the knowledge of basic tasks is actually fairly rare in the engineering candidates we have been interviewing. If you have no idea about something even just talking through how you would get up to speed on it (research, questions to ask people, trying stuff out and learning) is a huge plus. We have had a lot of people just say they don’t know something and that’s it. We don’t expect new grads to know everything, but being able to see an interest in learning is great and can spur some good followup questions. It just sucks the air out of the interview if a candidate just answers “no, I don’t know about that” and it’s weird to see it. Having a github project or two you can pull out and demo or whatever is also really nice. Even if it is not related at all to what you’re applying for it shows some passion for coding and being able to come up with your own ideas what to do. It’s something you’ll be fully comfortable talking about and can really be enjoyable for interviewers to go over too!
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May 16, 2020 19:57
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Vprisoner posted:I'm in Southeast Texas, a bit northeast of Houston. For any office job I'd be willing to relocate most anywhere in the state. For an actual programming career I've been looking all over the country. What kind of applications do you have in your github? What does your resume look like? If you've been looking for 2 years you have something wrong with what you're presenting as the market has been red hot up until Corona hit. Post what you have here or send it to me in the DM (I can look over your github there too).
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May 16, 2020 20:23
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Your geo might be a big part of the issue. Few companies hire outside their metro area for entry-level. Sometimes they will even white list zipcodes in their software. If Houston is commutable or you could fairly quickly move, then I would target companies there. Dallas Austin too but less so since you're not so close. Almost zero time anywhere else unless they're remote or you have a particular affinity. There are specific threads for dev jobs here on sa with a lot of good info. Over in the coder forum.
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May 16, 2020 20:26
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Lockback posted:What kind of applications do you have in your github? What does your resume look like? If you've been looking for 2 years you have something wrong with what you're presenting as the market has been red hot up until Corona hit. Post what you have here or send it to me in the DM (I can look over your github there too). Just PM'ed you with what I've got. Thanks a lot for offering to take a look.
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May 16, 2020 20:45
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Vprisoner posted:Just PM'ed you with what I've got. Thanks a lot for offering to take a look. Replied Xguard86 posted:Your geo might be a big part of the issue. Few companies hire outside their metro area for entry-level. Sometimes they will even white list zipcodes in their software. Yeah, this is also good advice. Houston is close enough to him, I think. I suggested if he had any friends near Austin to see if he can use their address for an Austin Resume. The market there has been pretty good pre-Corona.
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May 16, 2020 21:16
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Lockback posted:What kind of applications do you have in your github? What does your resume look like? If you've been looking for 2 years you have something wrong with what you're presenting as the market has been red hot up until Corona hit. Post what you have here or send it to me in the DM (I can look over your github there too). That's actually a really good idea, is there a good starting guide for how to build apps in GitHub?
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May 16, 2020 21:23
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BigDave posted:That's actually a really good idea, is there a good starting guide for how to build apps in GitHub?
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May 16, 2020 21:26
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Vprisoner posted:I'm in Southeast Texas, a bit northeast of Houston. For any office job I'd be willing to relocate most anywhere in the state. For an actual programming career I've been looking all over the country. Lockback posted:What kind of applications do you have in your github? What does your resume look like? If you've been looking for 2 years you have something wrong with what you're presenting as the market has been red hot up until Corona hit. Post what you have here or send it to me in the DM (I can look over your github there too). I just want to echo this. I hire CS new grads. Something is very wrong if you are a junior or later CS major and couldn't get any traction with >$18/hr employment. To have graduated means theres some big problems/red flag(s) in your process. Hoodwinker posted:GitHub is just a hosting site for source code and documentation. You don't build anything on it. This. A GitHub with working code is a trivially easy way to show that you know how to work on software with a team and how well you can actually do the work. It also can show you participating in the community. For example looking at my public GitHub (all my code is private because I dont need to job hunt) will let you see that I've made issues and pull requests by some ML and Analytics related packages. While my contributions are insignificant to them, I am now ahead of the 95% of new grads who show ZERO hard evidence of having ever worked on software with anyone else before. Let's say you want to make web back ends and you're best with Python. With just ONE project on a GitHub with a link to it working on Heroku an employer can tell that you: -Have made an actual working project that they can see the output for and see the code that went in. -Understand enough about working in the real world to use version control -See how well you comment your code, name your variables and other real world coding issues -See that you actually follow through enough to deliver something. -See how often you make improvements -See that you're interested enough to actually do something. -See if you use CI/CD type tools and get an idea of how you document deployment processes. -See that you understand deployment processes at least somewhat. One good project that I can look at can completely differentiate you and costs you absolutely nothing but time. That said, a GitHub can also show that you're clueless: -It's up to you to find a professionally put together one and mimic it. -Its up to you to write readable, commented, digestible by strangers code. If you can't do that for ONE project, why should someone hire you? CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 18:08 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 17:51
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My really good intern who was batting above his weight responsibility wise just got a $60k/yr offer, all remote, in a mid tier COL city. He’s an IT junior, 3.0 GPA mid tier state school with decent python experience. Apparently the CS job market is still cooking.
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May 19, 2020 01:06
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How do you handle multiple interviews/possible offers, staggered over time? Like, my life is on fire and  I need a job asap but the only one I'm in the running for right now is slightly under market rate. A recruiter just presented another one that's 40% more, but obviously I would be facing more competition. I would, naturally, rather have that one. For the lower paying role, I'm having one more Zoom interview and they will likely either make their offer then or bring me in for an in-person interview. If they make that offer in the next few days before I can explore the higher paying one, I am concerned about asking for time to consider it, in case they decide to rescind the offer. I don't exactly have leverage now, as I need any job. I also don't want to be locked in long term to something where I'm underpaid, but some money is better than no money.
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May 19, 2020 17:10
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Moneyball posted:How do you handle multiple interviews/possible offers, staggered over time? Like, my life is on fire and
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May 19, 2020 17:24
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Thanks for the reality check. I'm a couple weeks away from starting an OnlyFans.
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May 19, 2020 17:27
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You can also say "Thank you and I am definitely interested but I am also considering other offers, for [$OFFER+30%] (or whatever) I'd be willing to sign now, otherwise I need a week to consider my options". When you're desperate for a job you're paranoid about an offer being pulled, but in reality having options makes you more attractive, not less. Moneyball posted:Thanks for the reality check. I'm a couple weeks away from starting an OnlyFans. 
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May 19, 2020 18:06
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Moneyball posted:How do you handle multiple interviews/possible offers, staggered over time? Like, my life is on fire and Along with what everyone else says, you can always take the offer, then bail if the other one comes through for more money. If it would add $1 to the company's bottom line to fire you a week after hiring you, they would do it in a heartbeat so there's no reason not to treat them the same way.
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May 19, 2020 19:23
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40% is enough of a jump that it's probably worth burning a bridge over, depending on the industry/city/etc. But if someone took a job and then turned around and said they'd got an offer for 40% more I wouldn't be all that offended or anything that they left. poo poo happens.
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May 19, 2020 19:25
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I think you should strongly consider your alternatives. It sounds like your alternative sucks and involves hardship. I think it's a fine idea to negotiate and draw out the process a bit with your current company, but if you are hard up for a job it's better to take something that's slightly bad than nothing. I know you have been out of work for a while, so I'm not sure that staying out of work is sustainable.
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May 19, 2020 20:12
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I tried juggling one job offer for another one that I was expecting any moment and I lost the first one and never got the second. So I'm going to suggest erring on the side of caution. I vote for you to take the offer and then jump ship if the other one comes in. I don't think working at the first job for a very short period of time would hurt your resume because 2020 is going to be one very large mulligan for people's odd employment histories. So which Reddit forum are you getting hired at? You're staying in the moderator industry right?
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May 19, 2020 20:30
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Krispy Wafer posted:I tried juggling one job offer for another one that I was expecting any moment and I lost the first one and never got the second. So I'm going to suggest erring on the side of caution. I vote for you to take the offer and then jump ship if the other one comes in. I don't think working at the first job for a very short period of time would hurt your resume because 2020 is going to be one very large mulligan for people's odd employment histories. Do you mean you asked for more time and they insta-pulled the offer, or you asked for more time and they said "no, take it or leave it right now" and you gambled on passing on it and lost? In Moneyball's case if you asks for more time and they say no, then yeah he should just take the offer, and feel free to just jump after 2 weeks or whatever if the other company actually comes through with a much better offer. As Lockback said, there's a point where burning a bridge is worth it.
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May 19, 2020 20:32
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Krispy Wafer posted:I tried juggling one job offer for another one that I was expecting any moment and I lost the first one and never got the second. So I'm going to suggest erring on the side of caution. I vote for you to take the offer and then jump ship if the other one comes in. I don't think working at the first job for a very short period of time would hurt your resume because 2020 is going to be one very large mulligan for people's odd employment histories.
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May 19, 2020 20:33
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Oh it's even worse. I countered for more money AND tried to stretch it out for a week. 4 days later I found out the other job was a no-go and followed up with the first place and they ghosted me. And when I say I countered for more money, I was still in the advertised pay range in an industry where I had 15+ years experience. It wasn't like I was being unreasonable. 3 months later I saw the position posted for again, so whoever they hired instead of me didn't even get out of their probationary period. I'm paranoid about these things so I'm going to be all 'TAKE THE JOB NOW IT'S 15% UNEMPLOYMENT!' I acknowledge that's not necessarily the right answer. Everyone's situation and risk tolerance is different. Fortune favors the bold.
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May 19, 2020 20:52
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