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lezard_valeth posted:re: the story talk a few pages back regarding the Mana games, personally I really liked the story in Dawn of Mana and think it's pretty solid story telling. Is there a reason why Dawn of Mana's story is so goddamn cruel to its protagonist? Seriously, he loses his village, his best friend, his girlfriend, his faerie, everything. Kid's got nothing to go back to once it's all over, and there's not much to mitigate his losses or give him any sort of meaning. It is a Naked Snake level of villain origin story. I always liked to think that he became the Dark Prince/Majesty, but that's very likely not true.
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May 10, 2020 04:00
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lets hang out posted:best thing about a legend remake would be having the music at higher quality, assuming they didn't just throw it all away years ago. they really crushed it to fit it all on that 1 cd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sl-TjTB7OE
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May 10, 2020 04:16
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I think the combat system really needs an overhaul. The game is just ridiculously easy and in a really bad way. Trials is too easy, but it at least always keeps you engaged. I was Archmage/Liege/Warlock in my first run, and since Angela learns a passive that gives her the Magic Up buff in the postgame, it meant I had it all - passive buffs from Duran, passive and active enemy debuffs from Charlotte, and the ability to snap off + versions of every tier 2 attack spell save one.
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May 10, 2020 04:18
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Really been going through today. Got the last cactus and beat the game this morning. Beat the post game, did the first Anise challenge and black rabite, started my ng+, just got the wind elemental and second classes. You can really zoom through this thing when you know what you're doing, even wasting my time to open every chest (there's no bonus for this right? I realize there may be a PS4 achievement but I'm on switch)
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May 10, 2020 04:36
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John Wick of Dogs posted:You can really zoom through this thing when you know what you're doing, even wasting my time to open every chest (there's no bonus for this right? I realize there may be a PS4 achievement but I'm on switch) On PS4 there's a trophy for 100 chests and another for 200, but that's about it. You hit the second one long before you run out of chests to open.
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May 10, 2020 05:08
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I can't remember if there's anything worthwhile in any chest in that case. I know you can get some weapons a bit early but everything actually good is going to be in a seed. Aside from the ??? seeds of course
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May 10, 2020 05:11
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I think the combat system really needs an overhaul. The game is just ridiculously easy and in a really bad way. Trials is too easy, but it at least always keeps you engaged. If you're gonna go full Angela carry, you might as well go Dark- Light Angela's selling points over Dark are a less risky playstyle, access to enhanced lv 2 spells, and more MP conservation tools. What you lose is Dark Force and REAL ULTIMATE POWERRRRRRRR and if you're going to build a team around it carrying, Magus Angela is going to look silly. The things you're going to need in a full hard carry Anglea team are sustain, MP recovery, and enemy softening. If it's somebody who has something to gain from what little team support Angela provides, the better. And good news, there's one really easy addition here- Ninja Master Hawkeye. A debuff-spamming menace who benefits from some of Angela's chain abilites way more then she does- particularly Reclaim 1, which can keep Hawkeye choking on MP for his own Ninjitsu spam far better then it keeps anyone else topped on MP due to his multi-hitting heavy attacks. From there, we need sustain, both HP and MP, and hey, there's a guy who does that too- Warrior Monk Kevin. Leaf Saber and Heal Light+ means he can keep refilling your depleting resources. While his own damage doesn't benefit from this team the same way Hawkeye does, he still provides appreciable damage while rounding out your support. Another option is any branch Dark Charlotte over Hawkeye. While you lose a little support, you get another character who can benefit a lot from Leaf Saber to spam respectably powerful spells, but we're here for multiplier stacking, because the right addition to completely trivialize random encounters is Quick Shot II. An additional 30% damage is enough to put Magus Angela firmly into one-shot one-kill range with normal Level 2 spells even without weaknesses on random mobs. Since she has healing covered too, you're free to pick up Dark/Light Duran, who also brings mob control via Provoke as well as Fraction and Flourish to stack on your Angela on top of Leaf Saber. (Don't underestimate how often the game throws packs of mobs that resist each other's weaknesses in the same area, especially by endgame. Fraction can be a large DPS boost on packs of random mobs.) The loss here is that you lose access to Hawkeye's one-stop pack-crippling Ninjitsu, but Dark/Light Duran and Dark/either Charlotte take advantage of each other and this Angela-focused setup more then Hawk/Kevin, even if the synergy isn't quite as clean for Angela herself.
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May 10, 2020 05:13
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I assume the third play through would be a ng+, so they wouldn't need mp recovery at all. They've probably already beat black rabite so they can just equip that ability and all magic costs 0 for her
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May 10, 2020 05:28
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I assume the third play through would be a ng+, so they wouldn't need mp recovery at all. They've probably already beat black rabite so they can just equip that ability and all magic costs 0 for her Well, if we're talking full-on NG+ skill stacking, then who cares what you stack with her? Hell, for the first part of the run you're not even going to cast spells, you're gonna keep unleashing Tier 3 spells from the Night Market items you get unlimited uses of. Just max Int and ability to soften mob resistance.
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May 10, 2020 05:31
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Beefstew posted:Is there a reason why Dawn of Mana's story is so goddamn cruel to its protagonist? Yeah I remember the game being outright depressing. Also I think Dark Majesty is Stroud? e: Also Dawn of Mana has a really really good soundtrack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz1HIYPLAUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpUusaENTIQ lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 05:56 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 05:34
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Defiance Industries posted:Are you blocking out Sage Joch? Hilariously I didn't realize this until years later after god knows how many completions of the game - I just kind of wandered into each of the palaces randomly until the game tells you "okay now go see Joch for REAL".
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May 10, 2020 06:08
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It really sucks that Dawn of Mana's presentation and score are so goddamn good when actually playing it is by all accounts a chore. I hope they put that amount of effort into making a Mana game look and sound pretty again. Trials is great obviously but it's not that level of budget by a long-shot.
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May 10, 2020 06:10
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Dawn of Mana's soundtrack is so good it should be illegal. Anyway, I always thought the main character could be The Dark Majesty since they were both abandoned princes who slew the Archdemon.
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May 10, 2020 06:27
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A remake of Dawn of Mana needs all of it's weird mannerisms intact, if it's suddenly not a stage based RPG where the max level is 5 and it resets every level, and you're not throwing pieces of garbage at a goblin to scare it shitless so you can beat it up in its hysteria, why bother? I almost want to see what it could be as a straight action game like a devil may cry. Crush down some of the areas so they're not so huge, keep the toolset except, you know, not slow and cumbersome and you'd have a really good 10 or so hour game of that type. Alxprit posted:It really sucks that Dawn of Mana's presentation and score are so goddamn good when actually playing it is by all accounts a chore. I still think it's the best looking PS2 game.
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May 10, 2020 07:15
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I assume the third play through would be a ng+, so they wouldn't need mp recovery at all. They've probably already beat black rabite so they can just equip that ability and all magic costs 0 for her No NG+. I want my decisions to actually make a difference. Actually, overpowered DPS casters are something I almost always stay away from in RPGs, but I want to get a sense for myself for class balance in this game and to see whether Angela is as overpowered as everyone says. If I don’t burn out on the game first, I still want to try Paladin, Divine Fist, Rogue (CS spam from all three characters while Rogue needs minimal support for its traps) and try to figure out the coolest team for Nomad. Thanks for the suggestions from everyone! I should point out that I’m probably not going to do the post game, and I do care about class 2, since you spend about as much time there as class 3, though obviously ending up as powerful as possible at the end of the game is more satisfying and important than a powerful mid-game then trailing off. As such Dark Angela getting a magic up buff in the post game isn’t something I’d really take into consideration, for example. Also, I generally never user Beiser consumables on principle, since they make class choices much less important. At any rate, I’ll probably go dark rather than light on Angela and think about a team with some healing. I am tempted by Ninja Master since I haven’t tried dark Hawkeye yet.
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May 10, 2020 07:16
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Phantasium posted:A remake of Dawn of Mana needs all of it's weird mannerisms intact, if it's suddenly not a stage based RPG where the max level is 5 and it resets every level, and you're not throwing pieces of garbage at a goblin to scare it shitless so you can beat it up in its hysteria, why bother? See the problem was that while the game expected you to do that, halfway through it you realise it's just much more efficient to hoarde elemental bullets throughout the level and then stunlock the boss by shooting him for a 3-5 second stun (instead of like the "20 second stun" you'd get from throwing crap at him, except not really, because the stun counter ticks faster when you are hitting the enemy), hit him a bit, repeat ad nauseam. Dawn's combat system is annoying and cumbersome if played as intended, and boring and cumbersome if cheesing it. There's no inbetween. lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 07:30 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 07:23
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Heithinn Grasida posted:No NG+. I want my decisions to actually make a difference. Actually, overpowered DPS casters are something I almost always stay away from in RPGs, but I want to get a sense for myself for class balance in this game and to see whether Angela is as overpowered as everyone says. It's hard to deny that Light class 2 is probably better then Dark class 2 for Angela. They get a bigger initial Int bump, and they get tier 2 magic which more then makes up the difference from Wound Magic. Nothing Dark Angela gets in terms of unique utility keeps up with Elemental Combo and Move MP Saver either. In terms of class 2, Mysticist Angela isn't bad (no Angela is bad) but Sorceress is just loaded. The only real leg up Dark Angela gets is that Dark Force backed with Wound Magic still packs a goddamn PUNCH, and it's AoE size even as a base Tier 2 spell is pretty massive- Dark Force is simply the best base Tier 2 spell barring maybe Thunderstorm just due to it's animation speed and being one fast whack. Then Magus gets Wound Magic All, Spell Resistance, Tier 2 Magic, Ancient Curse, and Magic Armor II and suddenly all fucks are ungiven. Or you could go the other way. I guess Rune Seer exists. It's a thing. I guess it specifically could combo with Nightblade Hawkeye to just drown trash mobs in status effects and Special Effect bonuses but all those cute multiplies and gimmicks evaporate against bosses. Still, the interaction between Cutthroat, 1-Hit CS Boost, and Nightblade's cloud attacks are hilarious- Nightblade is one of the few classes that rivals Angela at murdering random spawns.
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May 10, 2020 08:53
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EponymousMrYar posted:There are Actual Upgrades in chests and they're not that exciting because of how quick combat is. Side grades wouldn't make them more interesting. They're still an encouragement to explore because of how the streamlined seed pot works though. The actual upgrades are just "get the thing from the next town a little early" though like I mentioned. Still nothing exciting. And I really don't remember running up to Joch that many times at all yet going through the same areas of SK3 is still present even in this version. In related news I wonder what the shortest period between you needing to buy upgrades is? It feels like it's Tomato Village - Alrant/Sirhtan, where you don't even have a boss to fight, just some monsters. Trying to farm ??? seeds against the bee women in the woods is pretty mad. I've ground up two levels and not even got ONE more yet. Argh I hate this mechanic, it's the worst way of locking off the fun part of the game. Taear fucked around with this message at 16:12 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 11:11
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Wow, a combo of DD Kevin, LD Riesz and DD Charlotte has made the benevodons a walk in the park. Start with strength up from Riesz, dark curse from Charlotte then throw an elemental claw on Kevin and use his crit booster and he just wails on enemies. Light attacks do about 300hp while heavies hit for 600. His #2 tech lands for about 4500hp too. The only one that gave a bit of annoyance was Xan Bie, only because it disappears a lot during the battle and will lose its afflictions.
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May 10, 2020 16:30
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It’s a really nice touch that in all of Reisz’s costumes save her class 1 she ties her mom’s ribbon to her wrist, because her new ribbon is a different color and therefore can’t be the same one.
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May 10, 2020 18:13
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Taear posted:The actual upgrades are just "get the thing from the next town a little early" though like I mentioned. Still nothing exciting. I went through and boiled down a walkthrough for you. Here's what happens in the game once you get Flammie. Go up Joch's mountain Go to the Palace of Darkness Go up Joch's mountain Go to the Gold Island Go up Joch's mountain Go to the Moon Palace Go up Joch's moutain Go to Tanisca Go up Joch's mountain Go to the Tree Palace Out of the eight spirits in the game, four of them are obtained by running up the same mountain to talk to the same NPC. SD3 only sends you through the same dungeon twice, it definitely doesn't have the balls to ask you to traverse the same mountain, completely unchanged, five consecutive times.
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May 10, 2020 18:35
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Defiance Industries posted:I went through and boiled down a walkthrough for you. Here's what happens in the game once you get Flammie. You don't have to do any of the first four
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May 10, 2020 18:36
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Poque posted:You don't have to do any of the first four Is there any other way the game signposts you should go to these places?
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May 10, 2020 18:37
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Defiance Industries posted:Is there any other way the game signposts you should go to these places? Not really, it's mainly helpful for repeat playthroughs (or using a guide). That said, you literally run past the Palace of Darkness on the way to the mountains, so it's reasonable to do that without climbing the mountain. Tasnica seems like a possible find as well. The Moon Palace and Tower of Light are definite stretches at best.
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May 10, 2020 18:41
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Poque posted:Not really, it's mainly helpful for repeat playthroughs (or using a guide). That said, you literally run past the Palace of Darkness on the way to the mountains, so it's reasonable to do that without climbing the mountain. Tasnica seems like a possible find as well. The Moon Palace and Tower of Light are definite stretches at best. Theres a place during that stretch of game where if you save there it corrupts your save. Its Neko's in the Ice Fields. Lost a save that way 
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May 10, 2020 19:08
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Mr. Locke posted:If you're gonna go full Angela carry, you might as well go Dark- Light Angela's selling points over Dark are a less risky playstyle, access to enhanced lv 2 spells, and more MP conservation tools. What you lose is Dark Force and REAL ULTIMATE POWERRRRRRRR and if you're going to build a team around it carrying, Magus Angela is going to look silly. You're leaving out one important point here: crit. Light Angela gets to dabble in Riez's +Crit Chance and +Crit Damage passive on top of just stacking Luck. By the end of my game, archmage (later mystic queen) Angela was critting on what felt like 9 out of every 10 spells. I don't know what the actual numbers on crit damage with or without those passives are like but it makes me wonder if light Angela doesn't actually do equal or even greater damage to dark Angela, even if dark Angela is gobbling up her entire party's HP. (Also I think only light Angela gets passives which make her elemental damage ramp up if she spams the same element)
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May 10, 2020 19:36
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I beat it! Fun game. Doing the prologue now. I think the reviews of this game graded it on two different curves. It coming out weeks after FF7R, everyone knowing that Trials got maybe a fraction of FF7R's budget. The second curve being the horrendous Secret of Mana remake from a couple years ago. But the game is snappy, looks beautiful, and truly exceeds it's SFC original in many ways. After I finish the prologue I'll put it down for a while and tackle the other characters.
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May 10, 2020 20:44
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I'm trying a low level game right now, avoiding all trash encounters and only getting XP from bosses and unavoidable fights. It shouldn't be too hard since bosses give a ton of XP. My party is Duran (for sabers, especially leaf saber), Chawotte (for healing and debuffs), and Angela (for Angela). Also I'm playing on hard mode. So far the most annoying thing is running into some trash encounters that are avoidable, but you can't run away from them once you're engaged.
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May 10, 2020 21:16
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm trying a low level game right now, avoiding all trash encounters and only getting XP from bosses and unavoidable fights. It shouldn't be too hard since bosses give a ton of XP. My party is Duran (for sabers, especially leaf saber), Chawotte (for healing and debuffs), and Angela (for Angela). Also I'm playing on hard mode. You'll have a pretty hard time. The promotions make such a big difference that being level 16 instead of level 18 in an area and doing a boss at 16 instead of 18 is night and day I've found. And a character that's level 40 and promoted is a lot stronger than one who is level 45 and isn't. I'm gonna say also I wish I'd done a combo of DD Kevin and DD Reisz. Defenceless is such a great debuff and with Kevin's huge damage it'd trivialise any fight. Still standing with the idea that in this melee works a lot better than spells 90% of the time. I also feel a bit lied to about Fetid Breath on Charlotte as a Warlock. It says (on the 'choose which class to become' screen) that it debuffs their defence but it doesn't seem to, it just does fire damage and that's it. Taear fucked around with this message at 21:54 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 21:39
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Minor spoiler for Duran's epilogue fight. https://twitter.com/Tomenheimer/status/1259590749819043840?s=19 Detective No. 27 fucked around with this message at 23:13 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 22:13
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Taear posted:You'll have a pretty hard time. The promotions make such a big difference that being level 16 instead of level 18 in an area and doing a boss at 16 instead of 18 is night and day I've found. Fetid Breath debuffs magic attack/magic defense. If you wanted a defense debuff, Necromancer's Dark Curse does that to a single target (along with attack, magic attack, and magic defense).
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May 10, 2020 22:13
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Folt The Bolt posted:Fetid Breath debuffs magic attack/magic defense. If it does debuff them why doesn't it show the icon to say they're debuffed? I've tried it on a bunch of stuff now.
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May 10, 2020 22:19
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I can't believe I've beaten this game twice in two days
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May 10, 2020 22:42
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I can't believe I've beaten this game twice in two days Good thing I talked you out of not buying it. The prologue is so fun. I'm regening MP so fast and the AI just basically realized that Angela should never not be spamming Ancient Curse.
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May 10, 2020 22:58
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Detective No. 27 posted:Good thing I talked you out of not buying it. Do you mean the postgame? Prologue is the bit at the start of a story. You need to edit your spoiler before because I clicked assuming it was a fight with Bruiser because that's the prologue fight.
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May 10, 2020 23:02
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Yeah, post game. I meant to say epilogue chapter.
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May 10, 2020 23:06
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Yea for your spoiler above you called it prologue. In other news does anyone ever really use their charge attacks? Towards the end of the game (as Angela) I kinda forgot it existed and even as Kevin it feels a bit underwhelming and not worth the bother.
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May 10, 2020 23:08
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Just did pretty much everything you can do in a single playthrough. Wound/wound all/ancient curse/T4 Angela gives no fucks whatsoever. Black rabite? That thing's supposed to be a superboss? Hah. Beat Anise in hard mode in under 2 min no sweat. Angela don't give no shits. Karanas fucked around with this message at 23:23 on May 10, 2020 |
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May 10, 2020 23:12
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It feels like trying to metagame builds is mostly pointless since normal mode can be pretty much facerolled from start to finish with a decent healer, buffer/debuffer, and/or Angela. The game practically drowns you in cups just from chests so you shouldn't really ever game over and the cast time on benevodon super attacks is super forgiving. I think the closest I ever came to a game over was in the crystal desert trying to fight in the moving sand and not realizing the red crystals were spikes. So I just ran past those encounters afterward. My hard playthrough was even easier with the carryover skills and +600% xp. Nevermind the fact they basically gave Hawkeye two(!) instant kill skills on his Dark path. Moral of the story, pick the characters and classes that sound fun and just do your thing. Nothing lives against any of the characters at level 90+ anyways but especially Kevin because jesus loving christ he hits like a truck. 99 Fatal Fist Kevin can solo the timed boss challenges and someone giving him sabers can make him do it faster.
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May 10, 2020 23:31
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I'm looking forward to my second run because L/D Duran, L/L Angela and D/D Kevin is super strong, but basically void of any buffs/debuffs and this thread makes them seem absurdly fun.
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May 10, 2020 23:32
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