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The trick is finding the balance between useful information and information overload.
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May 13, 2020 09:35
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"There are certain chests you cannot open if you want the best weapon, here is the list:" is what this thread should be for, rather than "here is the best class composition for each character as well the optimal stat distribution".
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May 13, 2020 12:03
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Listen dude. It's a roguelike. By nature of a roguelike there is no missable content and the only advice that can really be given is run/build optimization. If you don't like the advice that someone posted you can just exercise your rights as a sentient creature and not follow it. Unless something is either a straight up spoiler or basically amounts, I honestly don't see the value in getting so bent out of shape about it.
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May 13, 2020 12:17
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A lot of the content of this thread ends up on the wiki and I think it's fair to have some debate about what is appropriate for that. That being said, I think the whole matter has been discussed to death now and I think we can just leave it at that already.
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May 13, 2020 12:19
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SweetBro posted:By nature of a roguelike there is no missable content and the only advice that can really be given is run/build optimization.
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May 13, 2020 12:23
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Cardiovorax posted:A lot of the content of this thread ends up on the wiki and I think it's fair to have some debate about what is appropriate for that. Agreed. We have to get past the person posting the advice to get extremely angry and accusing everyone ELSE of being angry about it first though, so good thing we got through that already.
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May 13, 2020 13:24
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My Lovely Horse posted:Then I'd say as a game it's outside the wiki's scope. And that's fine, not every game needs an entry. Yeah, I agree. I don't really post for the wiki, just to help out the fella that asked. Sandwich Anarchist posted:Agreed. We have to get past the person posting the advice to get extremely angry and accusing everyone ELSE of being angry about it first though, so good thing we got through that already. 
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May 13, 2020 13:27
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Well technically there are folks that play rogue-likes specifically because they want to learn it as they play. It sucks when some silly tiny thing is missed because the game design (missable quests, solve a puzzle in an esoteric way, etc). 100% completing games and min-maxing are not in the same wheelhouse of just ‘what should I know before jumping into this game I haven’t heard of?’ ‘Beating’ or ‘100%’ a game should not be lumped in with ‘hey, did you know there’s a button combo that’s super useful and never explained in game’ Any tips for Just Cause 4? I feel like the game is too big and I’m not sure if I should even bother with the ‘events’ like wingsuit time trials.
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May 13, 2020 15:45
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SweetBro posted:The issue with going for boons over money is that is that it's not room efficient. Every level has a limited amount of rooms meaning that every time you're not getting something useful out of a room you're handicapping yourself for the final boss fight. Continuing the Great Debate: I mean, maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, like I said I only play on the medium difficulties, but: Yeah, every level has a limited number of rooms, so you should take a boon (one boon, ~0 gold) rather than go to the shop to buy a boon (one boon, -125 gold). By all means, stop by a shop if you need healing or just feel like shopping, but I regularly skip every single shop and almost every gold room I have a chance to, and the vagaries of Lady Luck still end up with me at 700-1000 gold at the end of an average run, plenty to blow on Big Upgrades in the endgame shop (which is, in fact, why I tend not to spend money earlier). Now, part of that is because I take the mirror upgrade for interest, and because I usually grab Charon's Purse at some early point, so I'm definitely deliberately focusing on having a shitload of money at the end of the run, but it works out great for me. It's also not that rare to grab an Epic boon that's worth 250-400 gold, which can be loadsamoney if you don't particularly need it (for the unaware, Epic is the middle-tier rarity). Also, can't have the Daed hammer in a shop unless you go to a shop! I had honestly forgotten they could be in there.
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May 13, 2020 16:33
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SweetBro posted:Yeah, I agree. I don't really post for the wiki, just to help out the fella that asked.
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May 13, 2020 16:40
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While we're on the subject, I'm playing the new Hitman games so I idly went over the Hitman series entries on the wiki, and Codename 47 has this bit:quote:First and foremost - if you're wanting to play this because you want to play all the Hitman games from the start "for the story," there is absolutely no shame in skipping this one. The game was particularly out there for its time (2000) when games didn't really "do" stealth, so all of the usual QoL stuff you'd expect (non-lethal takedowns, contextual attacks, quick-saving, etc.) don't exist. Also, about 50% of the game is just a straight shooter with no hint of trying to be stealthy, and just to add insult to injury, the voice acting - even 47's - is atrocious. This contributor's honest advice is to just read the plot on Wikipedia and skip straight to the vastly-improved Silent Assassin, which lets you knock out people, gives you a reasonable amount of saves per mission, lets you track objectives and hostiles in real time on the now-functional map, and many more additions. And since I've spoken out against "don't play it" in the past and quite vehemently at that, I'd just like to add that phrased like this it actually strikes me as very useful advice. Less "don't play it it sucks" and more "you may expect certain elements from Hitman and this doesn't provide them."
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May 13, 2020 16:49
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John Lee posted:Continuing the Great Debate: You get more gold efficiency as you progress in the game (higher spawn rate of gold pots). You also get access to the coin purse which starts you out with a good chunk of gold. These two combined will basically null out any extra value boons provide. The other thing which I'm not sure if I was clear on, is that getting boons later typically grants them a higher level and/or higher rarity. Since you're always guaranteed a shop at the end of each level, that's basically a couples of free Poms than if you picked it up at the start of the level. Don't forget that Boons aren't the only thing you can get and max health increases, heals, and other stuff are pretty useful as well. Ideally you want to be able to clean out a shop every time you go there. Finally I also think a lot of this depends on the predicate if you believe whether or not it's worth getting "off-brand" boons for a run. I'm obviously in the camp that it isn't. Outside for a few universally good ones like Artemis's spawn arrow on attack, most tend to not synergize very well with other gods and what's worse you risk getting a replacement option for something like your attack which often times is a dead choice because you those tend to be core aspects of your run's build.
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May 13, 2020 16:55
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Based on my own experience with Hitman: Codename 47 here is how I’d rewrite that bit. - Codename 47 is an old game and you’ll probably need various tweaks to get it to run properly. PCGamingWiki’s page on the game is a must-read. - Being the first Hitman game the controls are a bit awkward, it is sometimes hard to tell what you need to do and you can’t save during a mission. Hitman 2: Silent Assassin was an improvement in all these areas. Several levels from this first game got a remake in Hitman: Contracts (game #3). That’s basically saying “know what you are getting yourself into” without being condensing* about it. Edit: Spelling correction typo left intact because it amuses me. Edit 2: Saying sometimes twice in the same sentence is weird sometimes. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 09:01 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 17:08
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My Lovely Horse posted:While we're on the subject, I'm playing the new Hitman games so I idly went over the Hitman series entries on the wiki, and Codename 47 has this bit: I disagree, the wiki is not a game review site so subjective takes on things like voice acting or story of a game are not what I'm looking for there at all, especially when they're a paragraph long. Coincidentally all the other tips on there are mine, and I at least very specifically focus on giving advice on how to get around potential pitfalls or issues rather than pushing my own takes on the game itself. There are a million other sites for that. Also I don't know who added that but it'd definitely be nice if we could mention any larger additions to pages in this thread first.
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May 13, 2020 17:12
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Mierenneuker posted:Based on my own experience with Hitman: Codename 47 here is how I’d rewrite that bit. It’s condescending
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May 13, 2020 17:17
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El_Elegante posted:It’s condescending
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May 13, 2020 17:20
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SweetBro posted:
I'm not sure how getting more gold from pots and purse 'null out' any extra benefit from boons? Also, I didn't know you were guaranteed a shop at the end of each level, that's interesting, but I don't know how getting the boons later is better - or, rather, it's obvious, but if you're getting a boon at the end of the level, you could get a SECOND boon earlier as well. It's like you're limited to a certain number of boons; if the game has any scaling like that, it's so light as to be near-invisible. Yeah, you can get other stuff from shops. That's my main reason for stopping by an in-run shop, for healing/max health if I'm feeling I got shafted. But I usually want to save my money for the big endgame shop, and I almost always feel like I got good stuff out of it. And I found myself getting shafted by being forced into shops with no money all the time earlier in my play, which was a bad feel - I only want to visit a shop (small or endgame) if I have a ton of money, and if I'm going to aim for good boons (which I am), I want to grab them from the final shop which has a bunch of guaranteed higher tiers. And yeah, I definitely am in the opposite camp re: boons: I think boons are almost always worth it. Obviously, synergies are where the big money is, but you're not very likely to get something that truly synergizes (of course, I'm much more likely to believe that, being a guy who grabs boons all the time), and generally non-synergistic boons can still be great - Artemis' homing Cast, for example, doesn't synergize with much (except Hermes' autocast), but it also vastly increases the damage. Not to an extent that's great against bosses, but finishing small enemies off with your Cast is a good move in the first two areas, and a big damage increase and homing on it makes you able to snap-fire it off much easier and quicker - it's actually a much bigger increase to DPS than it seems, if you're primarily using it as said finisher so the Bloodstones fall on the ground. There's a ton of effects like that that are quite good if you use them in the right ways, and getting a wide selection is important to me - but if you're firmly in the Only Two Gods camp, yeah, I can see why you place a greater emphasis on shops.
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May 13, 2020 17:40
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PMush Perfect posted:What is, those two tips? The guy he's quoting say "condensing" when he's actually meant to say "condescending". Also, to stay on topic, some additional tips for Borderlands 3 since I'm finally done with the game now: 1. When platforming, the easiest telltale sign of the correct path to take is the "orange paint" on the edge. 2. Also, sometimes you are meant to jump on ladders that are hanging on the side of certain boxes and such. Those ladders are really easy to miss, for example in the Lectra City when you're trying to get the batteries. 3. Go into Accessibility, turn on "Mantle with Forward". This means you can just hold forward to climb up on edges, instead of needing to spam the "shift" key. 4. If you're in Fight For Your Life mode, you can just save & quit if you don't want to lose your money. 5. Similar to previous Borderlands games, you'll always be protected against 1-shot stuff due to a mechanism called "health gate", in which you'll be down to a sliver of life if the damage is higher than your total health. This health gate will only be turned on if you keep your current HP above 50%, and will not protect you against damage-over-time/self-damage/multiple damage instances at the same time.
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May 14, 2020 03:15
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So basically every shop visit you can really spend a max of 300 gold. And every time you visit a shop you want to be able to spend as much gold as possible otherwise it's wasted room efficiency. However, having too much gold can also be a problem if you're unable to spend it. The reason why I say it "nulls it out" is that the extra ~600 or so gold you get per run, will supplement gold rooms to basically make it so that you can clean out a shop almost every time you see one. Otherwise going into a shop room with say only 220 gold isn't very effective, because there's a good chance you won't be able to buy more than 1 item. There's also the important note that shops can grant you boons without an actual fight, which is actually very important in stage 3 and 4 where you have certain enemies that are incredibly difficult to deal with on certain builds without HP loss (like Shields or Satyrs). Also on the subject of scaling, there certainly is and I don't think it's that subtle. If you want, I recommend for you to just do a run and just note down the level/rarity of boons you get. Even remove the % boon rarity chance mirror buff for more accurate data. You'll notice that boons tend to be on average 1 level higher and frequently higher tier at the end of the stage than at the start of the stage. Like at the start of the first stage with no buffs, basically all your boons will be level 1 commons, while towards the end most of them will be levels 1-3 with a few rares. One strat I actually like to do is a fasting strat where I don't take more than 2-3 boons in the first stage, purge them for gold whenever I get the chance, and then just spam shops with room regenerators after halfway through stage 2. It's lets me skip a lot of the armored red skeleton fights which tend to chip me for health every once in a while, while also getting also incredible buff effeciency, especially if I can get the Eurydice +rarity buff for boons, I can enter the hydra fight with like 200 max HP and 3-4 epic/legendary buffs all at levels 3-5.
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May 14, 2020 17:56
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Can the walls of spoilered Hades chat get moved to the Hades thread? I feel like anything that warrants getting spoilered by definition isn't the purpose of this thread
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May 14, 2020 23:29
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Brain genius spoiler tagging poo poo that doesn’t even relate to the plot.
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May 14, 2020 23:35
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What should I know before I read this thread for the first time?
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May 14, 2020 23:38
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Yeah, while I appreciate the discussion, I think this is starting to go past the scope of what this thread is supposed to be for.
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May 14, 2020 23:40
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God drat babies you can choose not to read it if it bothers you so much you fuckers jesus christ god drat
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May 14, 2020 23:41
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Hwurmp posted:What should I know before I read this thread for the first time? DON'T CHANGE THE POSTS PER PAGE SETTING. Pretty much everyone leaves it on the default 40, and if you change it you'll miss out on community dynamics.
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May 14, 2020 23:47
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Hwurmp posted:What should I know before I read this thread for the first time? You should really read all 800 pages of this thread first to get the true experience.
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May 14, 2020 23:48
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Krazyface posted:DON'T CHANGE THE POSTS PER PAGE SETTING. Pretty much everyone leaves it on the default 40, and if you change it you'll miss out on community dynamics. That is actually legit advice. Props to you. If you want a good reason to talk effortpost chat to the right thread, it's because other people who might engage with you over it might see it there. I wish I had the energy to make a Lobotomy Corp thread. So much screaming I need to do.
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May 14, 2020 23:50
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Hwurmp posted:What should I know before I read this thread for the first time? Wolves hunt in packs.
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May 14, 2020 23:53
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:God drat babies you can choose not to read it if it bothers you so much you fuckers jesus christ god drat Love the thread
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May 15, 2020 00:06
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grill youre saelf posted:Love the thread Your real name is Grill Saelf?
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May 15, 2020 00:18
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Hwurmp posted:What should I know before I read this thread for the first time?
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May 15, 2020 03:57
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PMush Perfect posted:Every ten pages or so, there will be an argument about how much information is too much, and whether or not "this game is terrible" is a tip that should be on the wiki. It's a fixed event, don't bother trying to interrupt it. Is there an Official Word on this? My opinion is that if a game is truly horrible, like Daikatana or Master of Orion 3, saying so is appropriate.
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May 15, 2020 05:14
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Who cares, it’s a loving videogame website, man
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May 15, 2020 05:26
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Hwurmp posted:What should I know before I read this thread for the first time? i gave out some bad advice in 2009 itt but only two posts of it, the rest were good, if you can figure out which i think you'll be pleasantly surprised
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May 15, 2020 05:29
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Hello all! There have been a few random reports lately about the thread and it seems that it is occasionally stepping outside what it was designed for. There should not really be large chunks of spoiler texted posts because people reading this are here for information they have to know before they play. I know that it might stifle discussion a bit but I always saw this thread as just a load of friendly and knowledgeable goons offering really decent tips and advice before someone starts playing a game, rather than a more generalised chat thread with a few helping hand posts. I think it does a bang up job at being the first one and would like it if you could all try to stick to that more. Thank you kindly everyone!
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May 15, 2020 08:02
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Gynovore posted:Is there an Official Word on this? My opinion is that if a game is truly horrible, like Daikatana or Master of Orion 3, saying so is appropriate. My take is that when people use the Before I Play wiki they already own a game and are in the process of downloading it. In that case somebody is already committed to playing a game, regardless of its quality. The instances where it might apply is if a sequel to a game lets you play the content from the first game. Because these days you might end up having multiple games from the same franchise in your backlog. For example: - Left 4 Dead 2 lets you play the campaigns from the first game. - Hitman 2 (2018) lets you play the content from Hitman (2016) if you own it on the same platform. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 09:27 on May 15, 2020 |
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May 15, 2020 09:24
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Mierenneuker posted:My take is that when people use the Before I Play wiki they already own a game and are in the process of downloading it. In that case somebody is already committed to playing a game, regardless of its quality.
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May 15, 2020 09:26
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Cardiovorax posted:Maybe in the time before Steam returns, but these days even I buy games I'm not sure I want to keep, so I think that isn't really quite the situation anymore. But would you use the wiki to gauge the opinion on a game or use other resources?
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May 15, 2020 09:32
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Mierenneuker posted:But would you use the wiki to gauge the opinion on a game or use other resources? It's no big deal, though.
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May 15, 2020 09:34
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Anything for Druidstone?
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May 15, 2020 09:34
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