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nrook posted:Oh yeah, that reminds me. There's been a lot of discussion of TOME over the last two pages, and reading it all, I have come to the conclusion that TOME is very bad. What's good about TOME? Why do you play it, and why should other people play it too? I tried it out a few years ago and bounced off very quickly, but that's common in roguelikes even if they're actually good. I've been going hard on TOME lately and there are a few big reasons why I find is so good and engaging. As mentioned the class variety is amazing. It's impressive how, with so many classes, each one I've tried has managed to burrow out a little niche that makes it feel unique. I really enjoy the feeling of a build coming together and TOME does a great job with that. I always feel like I'm progressing towards something and if it's not with the talents than it's with the items. The loot system is gonna be hit or miss for people I think, but as a fan of Diablo style loot games I think it works. The itemization is pretty strong and I feel like there are very few dead stats, just stats that won't fit whatever you're playing. Maybe unintuitively the loot system gets better as you raise the difficulty since you see more impactful items sooner. There is definitely a bit of loot bloat, especially towards the endgame, but the game at least manages it well with the inventory system. A point that is sort of the back of the box feature is the almost total lack of consumables, with everything relying of infinite use with cool down items. It's worth reiterating how great it is though since it allows the game to be more laser focused on the moment to moment tactics. Of course you lose the tension of resource management but I think it's a fine trade off as a way to play to the game's strengths. It's also great how easily moddable it is and I have a whole mess of qol add-ons installed now. It's not perfect and some things are going to hit people differently but I find that alot of the things that people tend to point to as flaws don't bother me that much.
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May 16, 2020 16:29
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SpacePope posted:Best thing about TOME is the class variety. There's some really unique stuff in there. Just take a look at the chronomancer classes. The game gets boring pretty fast playing on normal, but on Insane difficulty you can get into lots of fun fights. Yeah ToME4 has... issues, but it's an absolutely massive picnic basket of stuff to play with. If you can get past the filler bits and the swingy difficulty, there's some really fun poo poo in there. Suplexing dragons to death as a Brawler never stops being the funniest thing ever.
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May 16, 2020 16:30
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Zereth posted:... A what now? Clearly a wand that can ONLY wish for more wishes.
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May 16, 2020 16:54
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Zereth posted:... A what now?  phone posting got me again.Anyways I think I somehow managed to snag 4 wands of death.
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May 16, 2020 17:07
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MMF Freeway posted:A point that is sort of the back of the box feature is the almost total lack of consumables, with everything relying of infinite use with cool down items. It's worth reiterating how great it is though since it allows the game to be more laser focused on the moment to moment tactics. Of course you lose the tension of resource management but I think it's a fine trade off as a way to play to the game's strengths. This is the biggest selling point for me honestly: consumable management is something I hate engaging with and TOME getting rid of it makes me happy.
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May 16, 2020 17:10
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All the classes are extremely fun to play in ToME but the campaign loving sucks and so does the loot.
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May 16, 2020 17:13
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I have no idea how or why but Humble Bundle just showed me a notification that told me I had an unclaimed key for Caves of Qud (which I already own on steam) and sure enough, I did. Anyone want it?
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May 16, 2020 17:31
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goferchan posted:I have no idea how or why but Humble Bundle just showed me a notification that told me I had an unclaimed key for Caves of Qud (which I already own on steam) and sure enough, I did. Anyone want it?
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May 16, 2020 17:55
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are there any multiplayer roguelikes (that are good)
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May 16, 2020 18:34
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dogsupremacy posted:are there any multiplayer roguelikes (that are good) Streets of rogue
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May 16, 2020 18:38
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Synthetik
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May 16, 2020 19:01
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Stuntman posted:I'd love the key, thank you! Pm sent, enjoy!
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May 16, 2020 19:23
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Lawman 0 posted:
And here I was thinking you could get "of wishing" as an affix on wands in NetHack. Which, presumably, would give it a couple extra charges at the end of the wand that would work like a Wand of Wishing.
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May 16, 2020 19:24
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dogsupremacy posted:are there any multiplayer roguelikes (that are good) Barony Spelunky
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May 16, 2020 19:31
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nrook posted:Oh yeah, that reminds me. There's been a lot of discussion of TOME over the last two pages, and reading it all, I have come to the conclusion that TOME is very bad. What's good about TOME? Why do you play it, and why should other people play it too? I tried it out a few years ago and bounced off very quickly, but that's common in roguelikes even if they're actually good. The class system provides an enormous amount of variety and you can come up with all kinds of fun builds based off of them. I don't think there's a game where I find leveling up to be more satisfying than in TOME. The game most definitely has issues but, while I can and will bitch about them for hours, I still really enjoy it.
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May 16, 2020 20:19
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Gonna gently caress around with alchemy and see what happens.
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May 16, 2020 21:24
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reread nrook's op because it got quoted a couple posts ago and People don't bitch about games that are actually bad and no one plays, they bitch about games that are good enough they inspire you to think of how they could be better  TOME has a dozen design decisions I don't agree with, but I really like the way it handles abilities and avoids the overuse of bump combat that a lot of RLs have.
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May 16, 2020 22:32
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I remember that tome4 was decried as being singleplayer 2d World of Warcraft by some traditional roguelike people after the first public betas came out, based on the cooldown system. Expectations from roguelikes keep on changing, and there's definitely a design philosophy gap between a fan of Angband like DarkGod and someone who reasonably expects that a game should be consistently engaging or categorically not randomly present an insurmountable obstacle. The sheer length of ToME can be really frustrating. I haven't played much after getting a couple nightmare roguelike wins years ago, but I still find the number of possibilities very compelling and create a yeek that eats poo poo almost immediately every so often.
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May 16, 2020 23:02
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dogsupremacy posted:are there any multiplayer roguelikes (that are good) Crossfire with the PERMDEATH and random_houses options enabled 
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May 16, 2020 23:09
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:And here I was thinking you could get "of wishing" as an affix on wands in NetHack. Which, presumably, would give it a couple extra charges at the end of the wand that would work like a Wand of Wishing. to be honest, having never played nethack, i was probably 70% sure "wand of wishing of wishing" was a real thing in that game
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May 16, 2020 23:14
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Hooplah posted:to be honest, having never played nethack, i was probably 70% sure "wand of wishing of wishing" was a real thing in that game Wish engines are actually a thing in adom
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May 16, 2020 23:17
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Update: zapped lord sutur with a death ray for shits and giggles. I am now the proud owner of one: orb of weight
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May 16, 2020 23:18
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LordSloth posted:Hmm Sproggiwood might be a good beginning roguelike. It has story, humor, multiple difficulties, many small separate dungeons, and is easy-in, easy-out gameplay. Minimal character setup before a game, multiple characters with four skills each. No complicated stats to comprehend, although the enemies have a lot of thought put into making them give rise to complicated situations. savage difficulty or bust sproggiwood sproggigood
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May 16, 2020 23:36
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Lawman 0 posted:Wish engines are actually a thing in adom Most of them have been removed now. Archmage is still a thing, though, as is I think the stairs trick for getting close to 99 in all stats.
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May 17, 2020 01:28
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Jedit posted:Most of them have been removed now. Archmage is still a thing, though, as is I think the stairs trick for getting close to 99 in all stats. drat. How is adom nowadays anyways?
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May 17, 2020 01:29
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ToxicFrog posted:Crossfire with the PERMDEATH and random_houses options enabled drat crossfire was the first game i ever ripped sprites from i totally forgot it existed
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May 17, 2020 01:50
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Lawman 0 posted:
I am definitely a hoarder in any game, but I'm not sure if it's just me that tends to wind up in the endgame (assuming I make it there!) of Nethack with a full inventory page of wands that I rarely even use.
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May 17, 2020 07:12
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Zorbus release 32 is out. http://www.zorbus.net Full changelog: http://www.zorbus.net/Zorbus.txt New gameplay video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC3zvoy0ZvQ
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May 17, 2020 08:09
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In addition to the ridiculously massive class variety that gives you roughly a bajillion completely different and frequently awesome ways to play the game, ToME is also immensely scalable, with a ton of different difficulty levels and multiple different lives settings, which means that you can decide exactly how challenging and/or frustrating you want it to be. The old meme of "getting killed by a rare you didn't notice because it blended in with the other enemies" exists, but it really doesn't matter to a new or casual player that much - just play on adventurer(which is the default and gives you multiple lives) or explorer(which gives you infinite lives and is thus really good for learning the game). The actual difficulty settings also help a lot - while veterans typically play on insane, Nightmare is still a perfectly viable challenge for the vast majority of players, and Normal is perfectly fine if you're new. Let me sum up why I love ToME with all of my heart despite its warts with a brief anecdote. One time, I was playing a gimmick Ghoul Brawler leaning heavily into that class's grappling tree(which is a fairly suboptimal build, mostly because Ghouls kind of sucked at the time). A fight had gone extremely poorly and I was trapped in the open with all of my normal movement and escape buttons on cooldown or inaccessible and in LOS of several enemies that would probably finish me off if I tried to manually move out of LOS to recover. I did the normal roguelike "frantically scan all of my options to see if there's a way to survive" thing and my eyes settled on one of my grappling abilities, Hurricane Throw. Hurricane Throw's normal functionality is a melee range grab that then causes you to throw your victim as a projectile at a target area, doing massive AoE damage and disabling in an area. I went "hmm, I wonder...." and hit Hurricane Throw, bringing up the targeting for it. I targeted myself. A poo poo-eating grin spread across my face as my brawler literally grabbed himself by the throat and threw himself at the crowd of enemies menacing him like a goddamned cartoon, killing all of them and saving my life.
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May 17, 2020 08:27
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Tome is great becomes one time when my time traveling ranger was scaling the final dungeon, a dragon elite enemy dragged my ranger into a dream dimension and Tome slowed down to taking 10 seconds or above per turn. I had no idea what was happening or if I was winning and eventually after hitting my cooldowns enough I got booted out of the dreamscape, apparently having won the 1 on 1 combat And then I went on to get my first campaign clear. Tome has its problems but it's also dope as hell
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May 17, 2020 09:17
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Lawman 0 posted:drat. Pretty drat solid. The content droughts have all been plugged, which is the most important part. Just don't spam-gamble in tiles mode, it crashes the game.
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May 17, 2020 10:01
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Played a bunch of the Monster Train demo the last few days, really enjoyed it and likely picking it up next week when it releases. It's very much a Slay the Spire esq game, but it manages to separate itself with enough differences that give it a completely unique feel. You make less choices per run than a full Slay the Spire run, but each choice is so much more impactful to your strategy. Synergy and building a strategy are key, as some of the later bosses can be incredibly brutal. Launch looks like it will have a ton more content, though I can't speak to how much until it actually comes out. I've also been playing a decent bit of Griftlands the last few weeks, and I see a ton of potential there. Runs are maybe a bit too long, and end up feeling a bit samey after more than a few wins, but it's still in early access and getting a very good patch schedule. Klei makes great games, and apparently if you buy it on the Epic Store($5 right now!) you get a Steam copy for free when it releases there in June.
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May 17, 2020 10:58
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Yet another solid Gearhead Caramel update to further escalate it carving out a niche for itself anew: https://github.com/jwvhewitt/gearhead-caramel/releases/tag/v0.520
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May 17, 2020 12:57
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Cinara posted:Played a bunch of the Monster Train demo the last few days, really enjoyed it and likely picking it up next week when it releases. It's very much a Slay the Spire esq game, but it manages to separate itself with enough differences that give it a completely unique feel. You make less choices per run than a full Slay the Spire run, but each choice is so much more impactful to your strategy. Synergy and building a strategy are key, as some of the later bosses can be incredibly brutal. Launch looks like it will have a ton more content, though I can't speak to how much until it actually comes out. Griftlands is definitely worth a fiver (and more than that), especially since they'll be raising the price to 20 very soon. The game releases on Steam on June 15, and apparently, if you bought it on Epic, you get the full game on Steam then as well? But I wouldn't expect massive changes, tbh. They're developing a new character and there'll be balancing, etc, but I don't think the basic loop will change significantly. Which is a bit of a shame, because it's still not fully clicking for me. The battles are great, but they don't really mesh with the RPG stuff. I haven't tried the new Brawl mode though - anybody knows if it's endless or if there's a definite end? Edit: I've played one round of NEOVERSE that's on Humble Choice now, and, man, is it ever full of obscure mechanics in the best Japanese tradition. Still it's good enough to be worth poking around for another variation of Slay the Spire Burning Rain fucked around with this message at 13:25 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 13:22
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Dungeonmans needs a dozen more content expansions for me to buy.
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May 17, 2020 14:08
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:think they already did that  hot drat you're rightI should get back into maj'eyal
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May 17, 2020 14:24
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Jack Trades posted:Dungeonmans needs a dozen more content expansions for me to buy. madjackmcmad still works on it occasionally, but mostly on bugfixes. I don't think he's put out any new content since the Pay To Lose DLC (which is amazing); it's just not financially viable enough.
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May 17, 2020 14:43
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Cyberpunk Dungeonmans sequel called Crimemans.
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May 17, 2020 15:49
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dogsupremacy posted:are there any multiplayer roguelikes (that are good)
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May 17, 2020 16:14
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a slime posted:drat crossfire was the first game i ever ripped sprites from i totally forgot it existed I played the poo poo out of Crossfire in the 90s and early 2000s -- a bit on public servers, but mostly on a self-hosted server with my family. First game I ever wrote a patch for, and also the first game I ever did mapping for, since self-hosting meant I could edit maps and immediately test them out with my character. Also ended up doing some cheaty things like giving each of us a bag containing portals to all the major cities. I stopped playing when I moved away for school, at which point we'd all gone through multiple characters (my beefiest was a level 40-something dwarf -- this predated the race/class distinction). Earlier this year I fired up a modern Crossfire server on my home machine to check it out, but this time I can't figure out how to get out of scorn -- it looks like sometime since 1998 they added passports to the game?! So I've just been exploring the dungeons under the city and dying in embarrassing ways.
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May 17, 2020 19:37
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