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TMMadman posted:It's why the Tony/Sarah/Ben group was so powerful over the course of the season. The three of them knew they wouldn't vote against each other, but they were free to work with other people to get out whomever. Sarah was working with Sophie until Tony used Jeremy/Nick to blindside her. I think that's how modern Survivor works. You don't really do "alliances" or "tribes", its just finding the right pieces that fit together with shared agendas each vote.
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May 17, 2020 01:41
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STAC Goat posted:I think part of its definitely just the evolved game where there's always someone looking to shake things up or get out from the bottom or undermine their buddy before they can undermine them. But I think we're seeing in recent years that "alliances" are largely a thing of the past and its all about pairings of 2 or 3 coming together in convenient voting blocks for the moment. trust clusters.........
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May 17, 2020 02:34
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Spokes posted:Yeah, pagongings feel like they're kind of a thing of the past? I don't know how much of that is swaps and how much is just newer players having some cognizance about their standing within their own "old tribe" and knowing they'll go once the other tribe is gone, which makes them more likely to "flip". I'm also basing this on a gut feeling of the last ~5 seasons so idk if the data backs it up A 'pure' Pagonging hasn't happened for a while, the last one was South Pacific (which had no swaps). But if you ignore starting tribe ideals then I'd say Ghost Island was a Pagonging; the core four of Dom/Wendell/Laurel/Donathan + Kellyn/Angela/Sebastian just held strong all the way, and then the outside three got picked off as well as Donathan (and earlier Desiree) for trying to turn on the core alliance.
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May 17, 2020 06:02
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Philthy posted:Tony didn't dominate anything. He ended up in a good alliance. That's it. He made one single move to vote someone out, and it wasn't even a good one. He simply did it because he fell into the usual "I heard my name come up from you, so now I must be bull-headed and vote you out." which almost lost his trust with Sarah. He wasn't voted against because he wasn't a threat to anyone. He was the jester, not the player. He made a single good call about Natalie possibly having an idol and it was the only time anything he brought up made any sense and was right about. He was blown off because, again, no one took him seriously of felt he was a legitimate player. 90% of Tony was his alliance. And how do you feel about Russell?
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May 17, 2020 08:51
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I agree Tony got to the end mostly because of a really strong alliance, an alliance willing to sacrifice itself to boost the others. I can't remember an alliance that ridiculous since ever. Dunno how that pivots to completely discrediting Tony since he did flex within his privilege at least and the left turn into EoE-is-the-true-Survivor is a bit much.
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May 17, 2020 20:10
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Sarah really didn't seem to do anything self sacrificing in the game. She just was a combination of seemingly too stubborn to consider Tony was outplaying her and just trapped unable to make a move anyway. She was basically Dom to Wendell. Ben I have no idea. The sacrifice at the end might have been about him just knowing he couldn't win, not wanting to take a beating at the Jury, and wanting to help Sarah after her speech. But I don't really think her ever had a plan in the season. I just think Ben's always been a socially awkward guy and not a big time schemer. So he liked having a "team" and he was getting his targets out so he didn't really think out the rest until it was too late. And then he kind of flipped back into that social awkwardness not wanting to face the jury. I don't know if I credit Tony for picking Ben or if he just got lucky. But either way Tony made the best of the cards he was dealt and made a number of key moves to sure it up like the Sophie blindside or that one vote where he and Sarah made Ben feel like he was calling the shots.
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May 17, 2020 20:22
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Khanstant posted:I agree Tony got to the end mostly because of a really strong alliance, an alliance willing to sacrifice itself to boost the others. I can't remember an alliance that ridiculous since ever. It's the kind of alliance that can only happen a) with returning players who get it and b) returning players with appearance fees coming to them. It also helps if one of the contestants is chaotic neutral like Ben. It was a perfect scenario for Tony, Ben, and Sarah. I liked Ben and the way he played, and I think he helped the overall season rather than hurt it. Then again I greatly prefer chaotic neutral players like Ben, Penner, and Ziggy from AU. They don't win, but make the season worth watching.
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May 17, 2020 20:27
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I’ve kind of wondered if they destroy the ecosystem doing each season in the same area?
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May 17, 2020 20:28
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I know they strip bark from trees that had carvings made in them and they add a bunch of brush back in, especially when it's between two seasons filmed back to back.
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May 17, 2020 21:01
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Now I kind of want to see a bunch of seasons where each cast is just given the ruins of the previous cast and we see what comes of it after a few generations.
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May 17, 2020 21:05
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STAC Goat posted:She was basically Dom to Wendell. This is really unfair to Dom. Dom had just as many Jury votes as Wendell did, and I really don't think Sarah would have taken very many off of Tony.
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May 17, 2020 21:29
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IcePhoenix posted:This is really unfair to Dom. Dom had just as many Jury votes as Wendell did, and I really don't think Sarah would have taken very many off of Tony. Fair, but I just meant it in terms of Dom recognized that Wendell was a problem but just really didn't have any way to deal with that problem that wouldn't have just self destructed his game. The main difference between that Dom repeatedly talked about how Wendell might beat him while Sarah repeatedly tried to convince us and herself that she could beat Tony straight up. It was a clumsy comparison. My bad.
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May 17, 2020 21:33
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I have to say this was one of the best seasons. It was entertaining and heart felt throughout. Tony was the best player in the season and deserving of the win. Will be interesting to see how they pull of season 41 if they need to start filming soon.
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May 17, 2020 21:58
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STAC Goat posted:Now I kind of want to see a bunch of seasons where each cast is just given the ruins of the previous cast and we see what comes of it after a few generations. Imagining someone going during the offseason when nothing is filming and burying matches or food or something like people who bury drugs on the lots they hold edm festivals in
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May 17, 2020 22:01
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STAC Goat posted:Now I kind of want to see a bunch of seasons where each cast is just given the ruins of the previous cast and we see what comes of it after a few generations. i think i remember an interview where people on the beauty tribe on cagayan found remnants of stuff from the redemption island set of Blood vs Water at their camp
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May 17, 2020 22:38
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Spokes posted:Imagining someone going during the offseason when nothing is filming and burying matches or food or something like people who bury drugs on the lots they hold edm festivals in aras and shane found coke off their tribe camp in panama
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May 17, 2020 22:40
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STAC Goat posted:Sarah really didn't seem to do anything self sacrificing in the game. She just was a combination of seemingly too stubborn to consider Tony was outplaying her and just trapped unable to make a move anyway. She was basically Dom to Wendell. Sarah had a chance at the tribal after the Sophie vote, although it probably would have been pretty slim. She could have tried to talk Ben/Denise into voting Tony at that point and if they agreed she could have talked to Michelle/Kim as being other vote(s). If you figure the Tony/Jeremy/Nick bloc would all keep voting Kim, Sarah/Ben/Denise could all vote Tony with one just one of Michelle/Kim (who both voted Jeremy) to create a 4-3-1 (if one was kept in the dark) blindside of Tony. It would have made her road to the final tribal a little rougher, but Tony would be gone and it's not like Kim/Jeremy/Nick were really all that close together, so she could have threaded a needle. For example, if she picked up Kim to blindside Tony, then Sarah could keep using that connection to get rid of Jeremy at the next tribal and she is right back in the drivers seat. TMMadman fucked around with this message at 23:15 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 23:12
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STAC Goat posted:Ben I have no idea. The sacrifice at the end might have been about him just knowing he couldn't win, not wanting to take a beating at the Jury, and wanting to help Sarah after her speech. There was an interview with Sarah where she said that Natalie was being kind of nasty to Ben in how she told him the Jury hated him. So ya sounds like he was done and wanted to give his buddy a little boost on the way out. As for Sarah I don't really think she did anything wrong except underestimating just how well Tony was playing. She was as close as you can be to winning firemaking and I have no doubt she would have won in the end. freeman fucked around with this message at 23:15 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 23:12
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TMMadman posted:Sarah had a chance at the tribal after the Sophie vote, although it probably would have been pretty slim. She could have tried to talk Ben/Denise into voting Tony at that point and if they agreed she could have talked to Michelle/Kim as being other vote(s). If you figure the Tony/Jeremy/Nick bloc would all keep voting Kim, Sarah/Ben/Denise could all vote Tony with one just one of Michelle/Kim (who both voted Jeremy) to create a 4-3-1 (if one was kept in the dark) blindside of Tony. It would have made her road to the final tribal a little rougher, but with Tony gone, but it's not like Kim/Jeremy/Nick were really all that close together, so she could have threaded a needle. For example, if she picked up Kim in to blindside Tony, then Sarah could keep using that connection to get rid of Jeremy at the next tribal and she is right back in the drivers seat. She could have gotten Tony out, for sure. But like, should she have? Yeah, she couldn't beat Tony but any scenario where she takes out Tony before the F4 probably makes her path to the F4 harder. Maybe she could have gotten Kim to vote out Jeremy, but Kim seemed to try everything to play with Jeremy so that would be a huge gamble that "the hyenas" wouldn't just turn on "the wolves" just as Tony was predicting. Ultimately Tony screwed her over and did so at the benefit of his game and damage to hers, and that pissed her off. But unless she thought he was gonna betray her again it didn't make sense to risk blowing up what was left of her game to take him out. And as it turns out he didn't betray her again and she very nearly got to F3 without him where she had a real good chance to win. That's why I loosely compared her to Dom. He knew he needed to get Wendell out if he wanted to win at the end but he also knew getting Wendell out actually hurt his chances to get to the end. So he was stuck the same way Sandra was. Neither really did anything wrong, they just got stuck without an ideal option.
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May 17, 2020 23:18
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"Tony only got to the end because of a strong alliance" ONLY? Creating and keeping a strong alliance, especially in "modern" survivor, land of ever shifting influence groups, is a big loving deal And he worked hard, in his way, to keep it, especially several times other people would have lost it after stepping on their own dicks
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May 18, 2020 01:01
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I wouldn't mind if they did the next 3 seasons in Fiji, it has the most vibrant colors and coolest camps. They will have to mix it up at some point though. All my survivor wishes came true this year with the Australian winner, and Tony. Elphiem fucked around with this message at 01:17 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 01:06
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TMMadman posted:Sarah had a chance at the tribal after the Sophie vote, although it probably would have been pretty slim. She could have tried to talk Ben/Denise into voting Tony at that point and if they agreed she could have talked to Michelle/Kim as being other vote(s). If you figure the Tony/Jeremy/Nick bloc would all keep voting Kim, Sarah/Ben/Denise could all vote Tony with one just one of Michelle/Kim (who both voted Jeremy) to create a 4-3-1 (if one was kept in the dark) blindside of Tony. It would have made her road to the final tribal a little rougher, but Tony would be gone and it's not like Kim/Jeremy/Nick were really all that close together, so she could have threaded a needle. For example, if she picked up Kim to blindside Tony, then Sarah could keep using that connection to get rid of Jeremy at the next tribal and she is right back in the drivers seat. I'm just curious what part of your plan for Sarah getting Tony out the tribal after the Tony vote allows people to vote for the person with individual immunity.
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May 18, 2020 03:04
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STAC Goat posted:Sarah really didn't seem to do anything self sacrificing in the game. She just was a combination of seemingly too stubborn to consider Tony was outplaying her and just trapped unable to make a move anyway. I think her "cops stick together" mentality was very real and deciding to never consider betraying your alliance member is a little bit of self-hamstring potentially. Most of her help were just her own mistakes or missed potential, plus her penchant to get a little zeroed in on women once a twig snaps. In a normal season, someone in her position would need to cap the person in Tony's position earlier to ever stand a chance. Tony didn't ONLY get to the end with that Alliance but couldn't have done it without em either. It also helped there were a couple people who were warned about trying to be klingons to the big alliance and got immediately burned. Everyone in the final four played good games in different, this was a good season.
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May 18, 2020 03:11
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IcePhoenix posted:I'm just curious what part of your plan for Sarah getting Tony out the tribal after the Tony vote allows people to vote for the person with individual immunity. oh yeah, I forgot that was right in the middle of Tonys winning streak. Yeah, she was pretty well screwed at that point.
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May 18, 2020 03:18
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STAC Goat posted:Now I kind of want to see a bunch of seasons where each cast is just given the ruins of the previous cast and we see what comes of it after a few generations. this would be incredibly interesting to see actually
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May 18, 2020 04:17
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Khanstant posted:plus her penchant to get a little zeroed in on women once a twig snaps. 
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May 18, 2020 04:47
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Adam did an AMA at reddit, some interesting info there: https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/glpgdx/hey_reddit_i_lost_survivor_this_time_adam_klein/
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May 18, 2020 05:37
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TMMadman posted:oh yeah, I forgot that was right in the middle of Tonys winning streak. Yeah, she was pretty well screwed at that point. Yeah, honestly the problem with everyone's ideas for the perfect time to take out Tony is that he won four immunities and also had an idol in his pocket so it was really hard to even have a good chance to do it.
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May 18, 2020 06:25
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Hey, an extra episode of Survivor. Marvel at how many of them look like they're dying, especially Ethan. Appreciate Yul never loses his vocabulary or poise even when it seems his wife MIGHT be a crazy stalker? Watch Jeremy and Wendell prove Tyson is the worst of them through math. See that even outside the game everyone just tries to be Boston Rob's favorite. Really a very good watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQlY9pQsG_0 STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 09:06 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 08:42
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Philthy posted:Tony didn't dominate anything. He ended up in a good alliance. I re-activated my account for $10 just to write lmao at this
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May 18, 2020 20:47
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This season there was a moment with Michelle or someone where Sara was getting disproportionately upset at which was distracting her from a more present threat. In her past seasons on my rewatch i recall times in her seasons when she'd likewise be more aggro or less willing to work with or hear out other women on the tribe compared to the men around. I also remember thinking she deserved to win in the end anyway when it came down to it but my memory is poo poo.
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May 18, 2020 21:23
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While we're talking about Sarah, there is something I really hate about her win. I hate that she was able to hand off the vote steal to Cirie even though it was non-transferable. That has always felt like a production error to me. It particularly burns because Cirie was going to use the vote steal in such a cool way. By stealing Sarah's vote it would put Tai at ease so he wouldn't play his idol. It was such a genius move that I was so excited to see play out. The vote steal not being transferable wasn't even good tv, it just killed the excitement for me. And maybe if she doesn't get screwed there Cirie doesn't get default eliminated later because Tai and his idol would be gone.
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May 18, 2020 22:23
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That was awkward, feels like they just never planned for that scenario until it came up, and when they saw it brewing I guess figured it was a juicy deception for good tv? It's a shame Cirie didn't try chucking it into the jungle or fire or something and be like "whoops." Who knows, though. I seem to recall somebody threw away someone else's idol but production just replaced it? That would be an idol gimmick I could get behind, idol only belongs to you as long as you're the one holding it. Other tribemates, rival tribe, spiteful camera guy, nature, anyone can steal it and do with it as they will. Even down to the final moment of tribal read, someone gets the smug smirk on and goes in their bag - SNATCH - Sticky fingers grabs the idol and plays it for themselves instead and hands it to jeff before the idol-finder can grab it back.
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May 18, 2020 22:40
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Khanstant posted:That was awkward, feels like they just never planned for that scenario until it came up, and when they saw it brewing I guess figured it was a juicy deception for good tv? It's a shame Cirie didn't try chucking it into the jungle or fire or something and be like "whoops." Who knows, though. this seems like a really good way to cause legitimate physical fights
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May 18, 2020 23:28
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We'd end up with another special episode where it turned out some creep went frisking people.
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May 18, 2020 23:45
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STAC Goat posted:We'd end up with another special episode where it turned out some creep went frisking people. I realized during the whole Girl Power Maybe Equality is Good bit (which, yes, even if Lacina was performing for the jury, she was stating facts) that Jeff was going on about this "you know, maybe we've messed up in the past.. maybe even *i* have messed up in the past" this was in real time less than two months from the Dan Spilo incident (the last one anyway) and he had to know that it was going to be a heck of a ride on TV for a couple seasons
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May 18, 2020 23:50
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Fast Luck posted:1) Tony was better than Devens although I’m unsure if the juries saw it that way. It's really easy to forget how well Chris played, partly because it all happened in basically a single episode, and by the reunion he sounded like a total gamebot again which at least soured me on his win, impressive as it was.
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May 19, 2020 00:07
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Deceptive posted:While we're talking about Sarah, there is something I really hate about her win. I hate that she was able to hand off the vote steal to Cirie even though it was non-transferable. That has always felt like a production error to me. It particularly burns because Cirie was going to use the vote steal in such a cool way. By stealing Sarah's vote it would put Tai at ease so he wouldn't play his idol. It was such a genius move that I was so excited to see play out. The vote steal not being transferable wasn't even good tv, it just killed the excitement for me. And maybe if she doesn't get screwed there Cirie doesn't get default eliminated later because Tai and his idol would be gone.
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May 19, 2020 03:05
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Hey, it's me, the guy who watched like seven seasons (good seasons and Game Changers until Cirie got the boot) a few years ago. I just watched Winners at War and really enjoyed it. I'm going to dip back into a couple of seasons and was looking for recommendations. Here's the ones I haven't watched: Survivor: The Amazon Survivor: Pearl Islands Survivor: Vanuatu Survivor: Palau Survivor: Guatemala Survivor: Panama Survivor: Cook Islands Survivor: Fiji Survivor: China Survivor: Gabon Survivor: Samoa Survivor: Nicaragua Survivor: Redemption Island Survivor: South Pacific Survivor: One World Survivor: Worlds Apart Survivor: Cambodia Survivor: Edge of Extinction Survivor: Island of the Idols edit: I may have omitted a few, some of the names sound a lot alike. I'm surprised I've watched half. I've been cherrypicking the good ones but I must have missed some. clown shoes fucked around with this message at 05:31 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 05:27
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clown shoes posted:Hey, it's me, the guy who watched like seven seasons (good seasons and Game Changers until Cirie got the boot) a few years ago. I just watched Winners at War and really enjoyed it. I'm going to dip back into a couple of seasons and was looking for recommendations. Here's the ones I haven't watched: Of the three listed: Pearl Islands, Cook Islands, China. All totally new first-time casts so you don't have to worry about order or anything e: as far as what to avoid, if you've already seen Heroes vs Villains you can skip Samoa, Island of the Idols was very marred and not good anyway. Redemption Island and One World are okay if you want to see someone just stomp the game. Spokes fucked around with this message at 05:34 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 05:30
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