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Lily Catts
Oct 17, 2012

Show me the way to you
(Heavy Metal)
I got a lot busy lately so I'll be trying to tackle Farron Keep next, and Catacombs (which seems like a tough/scary level, idk).

Should I do Smouldering Lake first before going to Irythill?

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Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

Schneider Heim posted:

I got a lot busy lately so I'll be trying to tackle Farron Keep next, and Catacombs (which seems like a tough/scary level, idk).

Should I do Smouldering Lake first before going to Irythill?
There is a "quest" at Smouldering Lake that will fail if you fight the Irythill boss first, so yes.

e- not the beast that guards the bridge, I should clarify.

Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 15, 2020

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Schneider Heim posted:

I got a lot busy lately so I'll be trying to tackle Farron Keep next, and Catacombs (which seems like a tough/scary level, idk).

Should I do Smouldering Lake first before going to Irythill?

I did. It's a pretty short section.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

Schneider Heim posted:

I got a lot busy lately so I'll be trying to tackle Farron Keep next, and Catacombs (which seems like a tough/scary level, idk).

Should I do Smouldering Lake first before going to Irythill?

If you summon the NPC phantom for Smouldering Lake boss and they survive the fight, you can pick up som nice rags for Fashion Souls in the Undead Settlement after.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

goblin week posted:

Your character looks it up on the wiki.

My personal take is that there's an invisible narrator as if the whole game is just listening to a story of something that happened a long time ago.

Tbh it could be kinda cool if all the items had optional voiced descriptions.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

WaltherFeng posted:

Tbh it could be kinda cool if all the items had optional voiced descriptions.

then they'd have to add "Heh, heh, heh..." to the end of every item description

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
It's probably because everything gets infused with the souls of whoever uses it, and so when another person who is sensitive to souls comes into contact with that item, they get an idea of some of the history of it, or something.

Aipsh
Feb 17, 2006


GLUPP SHITTO FAN CLUB PRESIDENT
Narrative in these is essentially just someone

SHISHKABOB posted:

or something.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


So Fromsoft/Bandai revealed Souls series has sold 27m and DS3 has sold over 10m which is crazy. To put it in perspective the only the other non nintendo Japanese game this gen to have sold more is Monster Hunter World. It even outsold Final Fantasy XV.

Crazy to see this series go from super niche Demon Souls to a worldwide hit.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.
It's a bit surprising that such a "hardcore" game series is so dominate. There is definitely a ginger for it's sensibilities.

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?
I am playing through Dark Souls 3 with a Lothric Long Sword and I hear infusions are the way to go? My stats are shooting for a quality build, or should I just keep it with no infusion?

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

For a quality build, infuse it with a Refined stone. Improves STR and DEX scaling from C/C to B/B. Or if you decide to go more DEX it gets an S scaling for DEX with a Sharp stone.

Since Lothric Knight Swords are farmable, and stones are relatively abundand, go nuts!

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

blackguy32 posted:

I am playing through Dark Souls 3 with a Lothric Long Sword and I hear infusions are the way to go? My stats are shooting for a quality build, or should I just keep it with no infusion?
weapons in DS3 are generally unimpressive until infused, unlike in 1 and 2 where the base tended to be the best form for any non-specialised purpose. so yeah, look into which benefits your weapon and stats best.

imhotep
Nov 16, 2009

REDBAR INTENSIFIES
drat, I didn’t know DS3 had sold that many copies, I thought it would be more like 5 million since Sekiro had sold more copies in 6 months or so (between 3-4 million I think) in the same amount of time according to all the articles I’d read. I can see Dark Souls 3 maybe having more longevity or better sales in the long run due to its replayability, the co-op and PvP, etc. and the Souls games have been around for ten years, so review scores, word of mouth and awards have sort of canonized Dark Souls as one of the best games ever.

I hadn’t heard of Mortal Shell until like a week ago and someone else posted about it on the last page, and I didn’t realize it was a Souls like, but it looks pretty nice from the trailer. But based on like every other Souls-like, aside from like Nioh 1 and 2 (and Ashen, but I feel like I probably liked it more than most fans of Souls games), I’m gonna assume that it’s probably not going to be that great until it comes out and I see reviews, etc. Plus it’s apparently a team of like 15 people and I think the studio’s first game, but who knows, Ashen was also that studio’s first game and was made by a small team, but it also has a much less complex art style and the weapons, enemy types, systems and stats in general aren’t nearly as customizable as a Souls game and I would assume Mortal Shell will probably have more customization and variety in terms of stats and upgrades than Ashen.

Also, upon replaying Dark Souls 1, I’m surprised by how difficult it still is for me, speaking of DS3 having more replayability than Sekiro (at least that’s what the general consensus seemed to be, from posters on SA who were put off by Sekiro not having RPG elements), personally, Ive replayed Sekiro more times than I have any of the Soulsborne games because not only is it a lot easier and takes way less time to beat once you’ve already done it, and I prefer the combat in Sekiro, but I’ve probably played just as many hours of Bloodborne and DS3, and it might just be that I suck, but there’s a weird ambiguity to the fights in Souls games. Like, I can easily beat a lot of the mini bosses and bosses in Sekiro without taking damage, but I can probably beat like a single boss in DS3 without taking damage, and due to certain items and differences that make it easier for me, probably at least a couple of bosses in Bloodborne, but playing Sekiro repeatedly got me used to knowing exactly why I took damage and what I could’ve done to avoid it, almost every time I was fighting a boss, even if it seemed cheap at first I at least knew what I could’ve done to avoid getting hit. But in Dark Souls, there’s just always going to be a level of uncertainty as to why your roll or whatever didn’t have enough I-frames to avoid getting hit, and I’m not saying that’s a bad thing necessarily, I love the Soulsborne games a lot, but I can’t think of a way that you could achieve the same thing with a Souls style game and I’m curious to see what the combat will be like in Elden Ring, since it’s supposedly more of a Souls game. Maybe getting used to the style of combat in Bloodborne made me rely on rolling and not using shields much might be why I feel that way, or it might just simply be intended, as it’s an RPG, you’re supposed to get hit, and Sekiro is an action game and because you can deflect and avoid perilous attacks by jumping or doing a mikiri counter, you can avoid taking any damage. Also, it’s a more grounded setting and maybe the idea is that sword duels usually end quickly with one person usually dying before they have a chance to counterattack, whereas fighting a giant demon with a sword and a shield and killing it without getting injured is less plausible. Maybe this is a dumb train of thought, but playing FF7 remake and because your rolls in that game have no iframes and like a turn based RPG, it’s sort of just assumed that you’re going to trade attacks, but it made me think about Souls games and Sekiro and also wondering how different the combat will be in Elden Ring.

imhotep fucked around with this message at 11:29 on May 20, 2020

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009



I keep having dreams that the DS3 sales are so massive (which they are, to be fair!) that From goes back and actually releases a huge balance update that changes/buffs tons of stuff. In retrospect I really wish DS3 did end up having a few more months in the oven, because drat it's cool but a ton of stuff could use some overhauls, like re-balancing magic to not be terrible, maybe giving some of the more useless stats a second pass like LCK, VIT, or FTH, completing the planned alternate level routes, making the item distribution not so back-loaded... It's still a great game but just knowing what could have been is so tantalizing, ya know?

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

magic isn't terrible!!!! stop saying that!!!!

it's actually finally balanced instead of being completely and ridiculously OP like it was in 1 and 2.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Amppelix posted:

magic isn't terrible!!!! stop saying that!!!!

it's actually finally balanced instead of being completely and ridiculously OP like it was in 1 and 2.

Ya there is always that one spell that is giga broken in PVE and PVP. By far the most broken magic build is in Demon Souls because homing soul arrow being so broken and you can so many charges so early.

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009



Amppelix posted:

magic isn't terrible!!!! stop saying that!!!!

it's actually finally balanced instead of being completely and ridiculously OP like it was in 1 and 2.

Magic is really poor. Like, you have to totally gimp your character going all-in on magic just to pass muster compared to just making a much more robust and powerful melee man. It means giving up stats not named ATT, INT, or FTH (especially since magic stats cap at 60 now, instead of 40 like anything else), having your ring slots taken up by some assortment of the boost, Clutch, Sage (unless you spread yourself even thinner on DEX), and +slots rings (because ATT sucks and you get gently caress-all spell slots now), and you have to give up healing for Ashen Estus to refill your MP that you go through like woah. Also I hope you like using maybe 5 total valid sorceries/pyromancies, and just loving :lol: at trying to use offensive miracles whatsoever. Mages are so completely hamstrung it's hilarious; you're better off just using flat infusions or resins if you want to deal elemental damage, really. They'll probably do more damage, too.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?
imagine thinking balance in these games is more important than fun

Iretep
Nov 10, 2009
for being a bad build magic runs sure felt really easy. unless were talking about pvp then im going to have to yawn.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh
balance is part of fun. I don't like playing mage in ds1 because super easily nuking everything is boring

yeah, your stats are spread more thin in ds3 as a mage. but also attacking things from range is sincerely really good and past a certain point you become really strong vs almost anything in the game. ds3 mage I had a slightly harder earlygame and probably the easiest lategame of any character type I've ever played, hard lategame/dlc bosses get blown the gently caress up by crystal soul spear or great soul dregs

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

IronicDongz posted:

balance is part of fun. I don't like playing mage in ds1 because super easily nuking everything is boring

yeah, your stats are spread more thin in ds3 as a mage. but also attacking things from range is sincerely really good and past a certain point you become really strong vs almost anything in the game. ds3 mage I had a slightly harder earlygame and probably the easiest lategame of any character type I've ever played, hard lategame/dlc bosses get blown the gently caress up by crystal soul spear or great soul dregs

DS1 has a good power curve for mages. You start out fairly strong and get stronger at reasonable points throughout the game (post Hydra, post Capra, at Sen's, in the Archives, and in Oolacile) until eventually you're an untouchable god. It's fun, and it's """balanced""" by the fact that you need game knowledge to figure out how to do it.

DS3 requires all the same game knowledge, but makes you weak as poo poo until one of the last areas of the base game where you get a random offhand item that boosts your sorceries by like 25%. The most enjoyable way to build a sorcerer in DS3 is to play as a regular knight until like SL80 and then respec in the late game where it's actually good, or play a pyromancer instead since that actually has a decent power curve.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
I beat the game as a magic person with the blue moon sword so idk I think it's fine.

Big Bizness
Jun 19, 2019

You have to put a near endgames amount of stats into INT, use all 4 ringslots for the Magic boosting rings, and offhand the scholars candlestick at all times to have a viable Magic Build, and then the game is almost over. When you have that level of investment in a character you should feel very powerful, not just now as capable as a melee character half your level. When it's as easy as sidestepping, not even rolling, crystal soul spear in PVP, the spells should be hitting like a truck if you do manage to make them connect. There's an inherent disadvantage to the projectile spells in Souls because of how easy they are all to dodge, they should be extremely powerful by endgame (and scale accordingly before that) to compensate.

Magic is definitely OP in DS1 and Demons, but I think DS2 balanced the power curve for mages the best.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Imhotep posted:

drat, I didn’t know DS3 had sold that many copies, I thought it would be more like 5 million since Sekiro had sold more copies in 6 months or so (between 3-4 million I think) in the same amount of time according to all the articles I’d read. I can see Dark Souls 3 maybe having more longevity or better sales in the long run due to its replayability, the co-op and PvP, etc. and the Souls games have been around for ten years, so review scores, word of mouth and awards have sort of canonized Dark Souls as one of the best games ever.

These games have Nintendo legs. They'll still move units half a decade after release.

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

Kite Pride Worldwide posted:

Magic is really poor. Like, you have to totally gimp your character going all-in on magic just to pass muster compared to just making a much more robust and powerful melee man. It means giving up stats not named ATT, INT, or FTH (especially since magic stats cap at 60 now, instead of 40 like anything else), having your ring slots taken up by some assortment of the boost, Clutch, Sage (unless you spread yourself even thinner on DEX), and +slots rings (because ATT sucks and you get gently caress-all spell slots now), and you have to give up healing for Ashen Estus to refill your MP that you go through like woah. Also I hope you like using maybe 5 total valid sorceries/pyromancies, and just loving :lol: at trying to use offensive miracles whatsoever. Mages are so completely hamstrung it's hilarious; you're better off just using flat infusions or resins if you want to deal elemental damage, really. They'll probably do more damage, too.
i have played this game as a sorcerer. you do not need to do any of the things you're describing. if you want to for a particular encounter, you can put on all the rings etc and stack your magic damage for some nuking. but you don't need to. you also don't need to ignore all other stats, why would you.

you're trying to play like a long-range nuker that kills all the enemies before they even touch you, which is just not what you do (that is what you did in DS1 though, so i understand the impulse). they made that almost impossible, that's why the experience you're describing sucks: it's supposed to be really hard to do that. the way you actually play magic is by investing moderately into it so you have an invaluable ranged option and several other utility spells to go along with it. then you soften enemies up and pull them with magic, and finish with your melee weapon of choice. you don't need to have 20 ashen estus when you aren't emptying your whole drat SP bar on every enemy.

E: also i just saw that post about pvp: that's true but that's a completely different thing lol. a whole lot of things in the game suck in pvp.

Amppelix fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 20, 2020

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009



Amppelix posted:

i have played this game as a sorcerer. you do not need to do any of the things you're describing. if you want to for a particular encounter, you can put on all the rings etc and stack your magic damage for some nuking. but you don't need to. you also don't need to ignore all other stats, why would you.

you're trying to play like a long-range nuker that kills all the enemies before they even touch you, which is just not what you do (that is what you did in DS1 though, so i understand the impulse). they made that almost impossible, that's why the experience you're describing sucks: it's supposed to be really hard to do that. the way you actually play magic is by investing moderately into it so you have an invaluable ranged option and several other utility spells to go along with it. then you soften enemies up and pull them with magic, and finish with your melee weapon of choice. you don't need to have 20 ashen estus when you aren't emptying your whole drat SP bar on every enemy.

E: also i just saw that post about pvp: that's true but that's a completely different thing lol. a whole lot of things in the game suck in pvp.

The problem is that magic is so weak that bombs, resins, infusions, and crossbows legit-rear end fill the exact same niches but better unless you've invested a LOT of points and materials into your casting stats/implements. Seriously, just try using an off-hand crossbow and some resin next time you play and be amazed. Magic isn't just underwhelming, it's actually outclassed by many other options that require almost no or literally no investment. There are a handful of great non-scaling support spells, yes, but even stuff like weapon buffs suck rear end compared to their non-scaling counterparts without spreading yourself far too thin for very little comparative return. Also, due to the lack of fixed-stat catalysts like the Oolacile Catalyst/Thorolund Talisman, using supplementary magic with (relatively) low stats like you suggest is actually downright detrimental: the bottom line of magic is just too weak to get any use out of at low investments compared to just using items. It's all or nothing.

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

I dunno what to tell you except that i played like that, it was fun, it wasn't particularly hard, and i didn't feel gimped. Not much else i can ask for out of a playstyle, really. I don't care at all if items or bows are actually "better" if the experience is good anyway. Optimal play is for suckers. Not to mention slinging spells appeals to a pretty different fantasy than being The Tool Belt Guy, and that also factors into enjoyment.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

Kite Pride Worldwide posted:

The problem is that magic is so weak that bombs, resins, infusions, and crossbows legit-rear end fill the exact same niches but better unless you've invested a LOT of points and materials into your casting stats/implements. Seriously, just try using an off-hand crossbow and some resin next time you play and be amazed. Magic isn't just underwhelming, it's actually outclassed by many other options that require almost no or literally no investment. There are a handful of great non-scaling support spells, yes, but even stuff like weapon buffs suck rear end compared to their non-scaling counterparts without spreading yourself far too thin for very little comparative return. Also, due to the lack of fixed-stat catalysts like the Oolacile Catalyst/Thorolund Talisman, using supplementary magic with (relatively) low stats like you suggest is actually downright detrimental: the bottom line of magic is just too weak to get any use out of at low investments compared to just using items. It's all or nothing.

Or you can just cast magic at the bad guys.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh

Big Bizness posted:

You have to put a near endgames amount of stats into INT, use all 4 ringslots for the Magic boosting rings, and offhand the scholars candlestick at all times to have a viable Magic Build,
no you don't

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money
Magic builds in 3 are fine even if you don't dump everything for int (stopping at 50-60 is fine, like if you're doing a melee build, yo) and use all your rings for magic rings. You can even run an omni-caster build that just swaps out its casting tools to pick and choose what elemental damages and casting types you do, if you don't mind not playing in the most ~optimal~ way, it's kind of fun since going all-in and then running into a boss that resists you can be really nasty. The biggest issue with them was that FP was so tight and you had to sacrifice healing to regen it so while a melee man just had run away for a second or two in order to hit you again, a wizard was boned if they ran out of ashen flasks and stopping to chug leaves you pretty vulnerable.

Incidentally, the Cinders mod makes your magic regen like stamina and it makes casting so much better. It introduces a lot of neat little QoL changes, but it does also have some annoying things about it, for example: I don't know if it was the mod, or just my game being bad but the Soul of Cinder literally only did one attack over and over again which made the fight even worse than in the base game. Go figure.

Nuebot fucked around with this message at 12:20 on May 22, 2020

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?
So I beat Anor Londo and I was actually surprised how short it was. I knew it was in the game but I had no idea how small it actually was.


So question. Is Aldrich that blob like thing that has half eaten gwyndolen or is the entire thing Aldrich and it is just mimicking Aldrich The Thing style?

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009



blackguy32 posted:

So question. Is Aldrich that blob like thing that has half eaten gwyndolen or is the entire thing Aldrich and it is just mimicking Aldrich The Thing style?

The former. If you turn off the music and listen carefully you can even hear Gwyndolin making some uncomfortable sounds.

Kite Pride Worldwide fucked around with this message at 14:03 on May 22, 2020

Morality_Police
Mar 25, 2015

Stranger in a Strange Land
Wait, so...Gwyndolen is still alive?? All this time I thought they were dead and being worn like a sockpuppet by Aldrich. :gonk:

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
Aldrich is pretty badass when you think about it. He really did just go over to Anor Londo and eat the gods.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

SHISHKABOB posted:

Aldrich is pretty badass when you think about it. He really did just go over to Anor Londo and eat the gods.

Presumably he's already eaten Nito and that only made him hungrier.

Morality_Police posted:

Wait, so...Gwyndolen is still alive?? All this time I thought they were dead and being worn like a sockpuppet by Aldrich. :gonk:

Hard to say for certain, but I think it's more that he's in the process of eating Gwyndolen and you walk in on him attempting to digest the meal that the pontiff prepared for him.

EDIT: Cinders report; Midir also broken, it's not even a fight now. Like the Soul, he just uses one attack and nothing else. Weird poo poo.

Nuebot fucked around with this message at 07:51 on May 23, 2020

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




I finally picked up DS3

Are the Sellsword Twinblades still massively OP for PvE

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

Probably, but that's only in the DPS sense. If you want an actually OP build just start as a knight, pump your HP a lot, and R1 spam away with the trusty longsword.

Unless you'd like to not be bored, in which case maybe do something more exciting.

loopsheloop
Oct 22, 2010
The easiest run I ever had was Vordt's hammer.

Start Knight -> pump Str to 20 (30 is nice to have the option of holding a shield up) -> beat High Wall and Settlement bosses -> 2 hand that fucker, everything dies in 3 swings

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Aipsh
Feb 17, 2006


GLUPP SHITTO FAN CLUB PRESIDENT
Starting DS1 after 3, 2 bloodborne and Sekiro and I have to say I’m really missing fast travel, and hating the distance between bonfires. Going to the undead burg to the depths is just maddeningly frustrating. I’m sure many people literally had no problem with it but I’ve died so many times after getting ganked by dogs and assassins, just for trying to get to an area that doesn’t have a bonfire (as far as I can see).

I know early game is always tough but this game has the longest of the early game massacred of all the others

Can’t wait for blight town!

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