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forkboy84 posted:I submit that if this was true the Tories wouldn't be lurching further & further right. Let's give full credit to Corbyn as leader here - setting out to triangulate on Brexit to punish the Tories for lurching rightward did achieve enormous gains in 2017. This approach was much praised ITT, remember? THIS TORY BREXIT and all that. It then stumbled in 2019 under the equally-well-known flaw of triangulation that the left is fully aware of in its regular context: defection and demotivation of single-issue supporters, whilst not gaining defectors from the other side either
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May 20, 2020 18:41
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Just found out my Great Aunt died of Covid-19 on Monday  She was in a care home that was used to empty the beds of the elderly from the acute wards of two local hospitals ahead of the first wave of the pandemic. This had the obvious effect of riddling the home with the virus, most of the staff ended up getting taken ill, 14 residents died and the home has now been shutdown completely over concerns about the quality of care. I mean, gently caress all Tories forever and always, but particularly gently caress them right now, the care home massacre is nothing short of a crime against humanity and there had better be an enquiry after all of this. That or all Tories should have to do a 2-week stint working in one. I'd settle for either to be honest. Loonytoad Quack fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 18:41
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They're not going to hold themselves accountable for it, I'm afraid. In the unlikely event there is an inquiry it will be only to exonerate them.
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May 20, 2020 18:46
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ronya posted:Let's give full credit to Corbyn as leader here - setting out to triangulate on Brexit to punish the Tories for lurching rightward did achieve enormous gains in 2017. This approach was much praised ITT, remember? THIS TORY BREXIT and all that. Brexit policy for 2019 wasn't triangulation, it was influential single issue Remainers both within the party and outside of it pressuring a foolish move towards Remain as an official platform. Total rejection of that would have been bad for the leadership because so much of the membership was Remain but it wasn't triangulation.
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May 20, 2020 18:47
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Loonytoad Quack posted:Just found out my Great Aunt died of Covid-19 on Monday My condolences Loonytoad x
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May 20, 2020 18:56
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Loonytoad Quack posted:Just found out my Great Aunt died of Covid-19 on Monday Condolences comrade
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May 20, 2020 18:56
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ronya posted:Let's give full credit to Corbyn as leader here - setting out to triangulate on Brexit to punish the Tories for lurching rightward did achieve enormous gains in 2017. This approach was much praised ITT, remember? THIS TORY BREXIT and all that. It's really silly to paint Brexit as a left/right issue. Reminder that the Bennite left were anti-Europe right from the beginning.
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May 20, 2020 19:02
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namesake posted:Brexit policy for 2019 wasn't triangulation, it was influential single issue Remainers both within the party and outside of it pressuring a foolish move towards Remain as an official platform. Total rejection of that would have been bad for the leadership because so much of the membership was Remain but it wasn't triangulation. to put in context, the messy compromise which the party took to the people was "credible Leave option", i.e.: 1) support a second referendum on any deal (regardless of whether it formed the government) 2) if it formed the government, it would go to Brussels with its own superior Brexit deal. Which it would then subject to a referendum as well you're right to say that this definitely represented a move toward Remain compared to 2017 "Labour accepts the referendum result", but it still sets out to forge an unpalatable compromise relative to Labour party voters (never mind members) in order to defend shaky constituencies. Not sufficiently, as it turned out, but that's not the same as not attempting it. as Ed Miliband found out back in 2010, it's possible to undo some of the harsher edges of a triangulatory strategy and still not see the party activists return, whilst still thoroughly losing those capricious voters that triangulation sought to capture
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May 20, 2020 19:04
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Unsurprising that in today's briefing they were busy talking about how testing and tracking has hired 25,000 people and will be ready for the 1st of June. They were asked about the due date for the app and it was very definitely ignored.
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May 20, 2020 19:06
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Angepain posted:I'm so used to everyone dying right now i was sad for a second before googling Umberto Eco and remembering he died in 2016 I got completely bamboozled because someone posted a news article about him dying and I was like "oh poo poo he dead" and posted about it in various places, only later realizing "Wait that fool's been dead for years!"  It's too hot for thinking
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May 20, 2020 19:11
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Loonytoad Quack posted:Just found out my Great Aunt died of Covid-19 on Monday Condolences friend
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May 20, 2020 19:12
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Sad Panda posted:Unsurprising that in today's briefing they were busy talking about how testing and tracking has hired 25,000 people and will be ready for the 1st of June. They were asked about the due date for the app and it was very definitely ignored. I'm sure they'll have a world building system in 11 days, even though they don't have one now grauniad live blog posted:Johnson says Starmer was not listening. He says he has “growing confidence” that the UK will have a world-beating system, and it will be in place by 1 June. even better than the people who've had one running for months, probably
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May 20, 2020 19:20
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was just reminded why I hate being back home I need to get away from this loving country asap and I loving hate that all the flights away are so loving expensive
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May 20, 2020 19:21
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forkboy84 posted:It's really silly to paint Brexit as a left/right issue. Reminder that the Bennite left were anti-Europe right from the beginning. True - nonetheless the year is no longer 1975 and it would be deeply bizarre to maintain that Brexit is anything but a project of the Tory right-wing dating all the way back to the last unsettled struggle between the Tory wets and dries. The Bennite anti-European left is moribund. The battle as actually fought is not over economic sovereignty to engage in left-wing dirigiste projects, but instead over immigration and political sovereignty to engage in right-wing deregulatory projects. If not for the Europe question, the Johnson-period Tories are certainly not moving further rightward on austerity, not moving rightward on immigration, not moving rightward on law and order, etc. relative to the May government - the entire 'ERG' insurgency was, as the name suggests, built around Europe
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May 20, 2020 19:22
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Loonytoad Quack posted:Just found out my Great Aunt died of Covid-19 on Monday forkboy84 posted:It's really silly to paint Brexit as a left/right issue. Reminder that the Bennite left were anti-Europe right from the beginning. I doubt it'd have got past conference, but it would have been fun to see.
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May 20, 2020 19:29
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Guavanaut posted:"anyone who calls themselves European is a racist using language popularized by David Duke and the KKK to cover for white supremacy" That genuinely does weird me out, it's just nationalism for people who find europe more fashionable than britain.
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May 20, 2020 19:32
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Guavanaut posted:I wonder how they'd have fared if they'd gone full tilt Lexit. Like call out the liberalization, the anti state-aid stuff, the penalizing of the poor countries, the ransacking of Africa, and go full "anyone who calls themselves European is a racist using language popularized by David Duke and the KKK to cover for white supremacy" during the election. A little-known politician Arthur Scargill still ran in 2017 and 2019 under the banner of 'Socialist Labour', and indeed he endorsed Lexit. Also clean coal! They're hurting a bit for sufficient members to run in most constituencies though. Seriously though, one of the weirder triumphs of Corbynism - seriously, it is hard to understate just how strange this is relative to previous leaders hailing from the party left - is the ease with which Corbyn could command unity amongst the normally fractious UK left-wing. Quite aside from Brexit, one suddenly saw the constellation of tiny left-wing parties and radical groups suddenly embrace Corbyn-branded Labourism after Corbyn becomes leader, even before the referendum in 2016. And after the referendum, no2eu quietly folds, everyone who matters is now 7/10 pro-EU. Michael Foot never saw such acquiescent unity on his left. ronya fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 19:42
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Sad Panda posted:Unsurprising that in today's briefing they were busy talking about how testing and tracking has hired 25,000 people and will be ready for the 1st of June. They were asked about the due date for the app and it was very definitely ignored. Something tells me this is another cock up in the making. Read all about the 'training' etc here. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/20/no-one-had-any-idea-contact-tracers-lack-knowledge-about-covid-19-job quote:....
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May 20, 2020 19:50
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Something tells me this is another cock up in the making. Read all about the 'training' etc here. They were never going to do manual tracing other than as a figleaf. Even Serco couldn't pretend they'd have enough bums on seats to be able to do it with even late-March infection levels - *if* we could get new infections down to a few hundred a day it might be possible, but I don't think we dropped down to that even when people were pretending to lock down.
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May 20, 2020 19:55
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OwlFancier posted:That genuinely does weird me out, it's just nationalism for people who find europe more fashionable than britain. Julius Evola believed in the necessity of a pan-European elite to preserve European unity and superiority and to suppress the backwards and plebeian volkish ways of the individual demos with enlightened rule until his dying day in the 70s, and he was more fascist than most fascists. ronya posted:A little-known politician Arthur Scargill still ran in 2017 and 2019 under the banner of 'Socialist Labour', and indeed he endorsed Lexit. Also clean coal!
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May 20, 2020 20:22
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forkboy84 posted:I submit that if this was true the Tories wouldn't be lurching further & further right. The Tories have been lurching continually to the right since at least 2014, so how is that Starmer’s fault specifically?
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May 20, 2020 20:25
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Guavanaut posted:Yes but one of those two isn't complete nonsense. I like to think of Scargill's embrace of clean coal as a warning of epistemic humility There but for the grace of God &c The struggle of the Australian left under Albanese with the "coal question" is something that I think the UK left would still be undergoing if coal retained as prominent role in the UK society and economy, I think. Where Scargill once celebrated the superior quality of UK anthracite as saving the world from inferior, more pollutive coals, the Aussie left does to the same vigour today
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May 20, 2020 20:33
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It is better for certain purposes that can't be replaced by wind or nuclear, like in the production of steel or other ore reduction, where no matter how much wind you throw at it it just rolls around a bit. You can even use anthracite in electric arc furnaces so you use less coal but still get the desired effect. Shame we shut all the steelworks.
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May 20, 2020 20:39
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radmonger posted:The Tories have been lurching continually to the right since at least 2014, so how is that Starmer’s fault specifically? I didn't say it was, I was simply pointing out ronya's absurd to the point of parody belief in triangulation as being the obvious way to government is utter cock. What's specifically Starmer's fault he's a shite neoliberal whose idea of opposition is failing to challenge austerity, failing to hold the government to account on their dire handling of the pandemic & you know all the rest I hope.
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May 20, 2020 21:02
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Someone please hit me with a comedy sixer, I'm really not doing well right now and I need to get away from these loving forums (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 20, 2020 21:37
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loving hell, today has sucked even by the lovely standards of recent history. Forgive me if I rant for a few, but I don’t really have anywhere else to do so. Trigger warning- sick animal stuff, and some grossness I have two cats, Bob and Digby. I love them both a lot. Bob is a 6yo moggy, Digby a nearly 2yo Maine coon. Bob was a rescue we found living in next door’s garden, whereas Digby was our first wedding anniversary present to each other (he was our ‘practice baby’). Digby is a boisterous sweetheart. Bob however is a thug, and despite being neutered likes to roam our estate beating up other cats for daring to exist. Three and a bit weeks ago Bob got into a fight (again) and we noticed a swelling on his face afterwards. We tried to get our usual vet to see him, but they prevaricated for a fortnight until the swelling had become a golf ball sized lump. Then they finally saw him middle of last week, and he had to have surgery to drain it. Five hundred quid down the drain, though at least he’s insured. Except now his face has swollen up again to a frankly grotesque size, is refusing to drain (it did once, on our bed- and covered about a quarter of it with the discharge. Lovely.) and my wife is freaking out. And then this afternoon we notice Digby seems listless as all hell, left some of his lunch (this /never/ happens) and didn’t even touch dinner. Try to pick him up and he starts mewling in a way he’s literally never done before in his life. No interest in food, or his favourite toy or anything really. He got violently sick at one point, throwing up a hairball that looked like a turd.. Right now we’re trying to decide what to do- the emergency branch of our vet is open but it’ll cost £200 just to be seen, we won’t know the situation till the small hours and we’ll also get stung for nearly a hundred quid for the boarding fees. Whereas we can take him to our local vet tomorrow morning for about £75. We honestly have no idea what to do. My wife (who’s got anxiety issues in general, and specifically related to our cats) is completely losing her mind with worry and I’m not far behind her tbh. He seems a bit better after his puking, and the wife got him chasing a bit of string, so he’s a bit more alert but he’s still turning down food. I’m personally leaning towards taking him in tomorrow morning, but would really appreciate some opinions/advice here.   The two of them in happier times.
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May 20, 2020 21:52
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Camrath posted:loving hell, today has sucked even by the lovely standards of recent history. Forgive me if I rant for a few, but I don’t really have anywhere else to do so. Trigger warning- sick animal stuff, and some grossness I would take him (now I mean)
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May 20, 2020 22:10
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Take him right now. Cats turning down food is bad news IME.
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May 20, 2020 22:15
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Last week I noticed that my dog had a bunch of swelling around her muzzle. I couldn't figure it out, but it looked like she was having an allergic reaction. I called the Vet and they said it would be at least €75 since it was a Sunday. Or I could wait until Monday when it would be €45. I ultimately brought her down on Sunday and paid the extra money. The Vet said she had anaphylaxis likely from a Bee sting and if we hadn't gone down her throat could have closed over and she could have died. The Vet said we made the right call. If you can being her down tonight I would. Your cat will probably be okay if you can't, but you will feel better if you know that you did all that you could do.
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May 20, 2020 22:25
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Gonna echo the calls to take him to the vet ASAP. Even if you were to totally ignore your cat's welfare, the amount of distress his condition is causing you both is reason enough to take him now IMO.
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May 20, 2020 22:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcS2LBx3nZ4
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May 20, 2020 23:03
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ronya posted:Let's give full credit to Corbyn as leader here - setting out to triangulate on Brexit to punish the Tories for lurching rightward did achieve enormous gains in 2017. This approach was much praised ITT, remember? THIS TORY BREXIT and all that. This thread was always anti-brexit though that sentiment did grow strongly leading through to 2019. Saying 'brexit is bad but we still have to do it democracy amirite' got heavy pushback trust me, you're doing revisionism/lying. ronya posted:It then stumbled in 2019 under the equally-well-known flaw of triangulation that the left is fully aware of in its regular context: defection and demotivation of single-issue supporters, whilst not gaining defectors from the other side either This isn't a coherent point. You described the '17 Labour position of 'brexit should happen but it should be as not-bad as possible' as the triangulation but then also described the '19 Labour position of 'brexit probably shouldn't happen let's have a redo' as the triangulation. That's not triangulation it's that the conflicting positions are responses to events, the former the immediate post-referendum moment and the latter the incredibly effective remoaner movement. If you're going to describe Leave and Remain voters as single issue that definitionally goes both ways but it's an obviously incorrect read, if it was true then in '17 Labour would have been punished and the orange line here would have gone way up  All forcing a dumb triangulation frame does is suggest that currently urban/liberal/BAME voters are a more reliable voting block for Labour than poorer white rural people and like yeah no poo poo? Vitamin P fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 23:13
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Venomous posted:Someone please hit me with a comedy sixer, I'm really not doing well right now and I need to get away from these loving forums I'm limiting what type of thread I go into rather than just staying off the forums. There's plenty of funny threads where no one is talking about how everything is bad.
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May 21, 2020 00:01
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Job - might be of interest to some itt: https://twitter.com/LGBTIQoutside/status/1263007486581366784?s=20
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May 21, 2020 00:03
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forkboy84 posted:I submit that if this was true the Tories wouldn't be lurching further & further right. That only works as an argument if the Tories are lurching right out of a rational hunt for electoral success, rather than a bunch of people intent on pursuing these policies for personal economic gain or ideological purity. ronya posted:Seriously though, one of the weirder triumphs of Corbynism - seriously, it is hard to understate just how strange this is relative to previous leaders hailing from the party left - is the ease with which Corbyn could command unity amongst the normally fractious UK left-wing. Quite aside from Brexit, one suddenly saw the constellation of tiny left-wing parties and radical groups suddenly embrace Corbyn-branded Labourism after Corbyn becomes leader, even before the referendum in 2016. And after the referendum, no2eu quietly folds, everyone who matters is now 7/10 pro-EU. Michael Foot never saw such acquiescent unity on his left. I always thought this was because in the halcyon days he looked like a candidate that had the potential to connect with voters on a human level that had real electoral potential. People can swallow a lot for the prospect of a transformative leftist success. a glitch posted:Gonna echo the calls to take him to the vet ASAP. Even if you were to totally ignore your cat's welfare, the amount of distress his condition is causing you both is reason enough to take him now IMO. Seconded.
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May 21, 2020 00:08
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Digby is at the 24hr vet right now- we’re parked outside waiting for them to let us know what’s up. Christ knows how we’re going to afford it, but that boy is super precious to us. He had seemed to be rallying, but then I offered him a plate of food and he literally mewled and ran away from it. Car journey was a nightmare- he’s strong as hell and managed to wrench open the door to his carrier and slashed my wife. Obviously didn’t mean it, but yeah. She’s falling apart- last time we were here our previous Maine coon got put to sleep. :/ Camrath fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 00:13
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Camrath posted:Digby is at the 24hr vet right now- we’re parked outside waiting for them to let us know what’s up. Christ knows how we’re going to afford it, but that boy is super precious to us. Hope it works out. Big hug to your wife (and you) x
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May 21, 2020 00:14
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Camrath posted:Digby is at the 24hr vet right now- we’re parked outside waiting for them to let us know what’s up. Christ knows how we’re going to afford it, but that boy is super precious to us. If money's that hard up it sounds like something the ukmt solidarity fund could help with.
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May 21, 2020 00:23
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Saros posted:If money's that hard up it sounds like something the ukmt solidarity fund could help with. I was wondering that. Otherwise a rush of fudge orders (with no need to send the fudge)? Ed: but that might mess up accounts/tax. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 00:25
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https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1263035683133886466?s=19 Lol
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