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Hedgehog Pie posted:On one hand I do have some sympathy for the WWE guys who get piled on on Twitter (and here) for talking up the promotion, because at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of the job description at most jobs like that, and to tell the truth I doubt it's actually the wrestlers themselves handling their Twitter output in many cases anyway. Guys like Seth just seem to about it in the worst possible way, though as said that might be partly because kayfabe is practically dead in the west. WWE wrestlers literally conspire with one another to attack outsiders who criticize the company as Mark Henry let slip this week.
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May 20, 2020 18:46
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MassRafTer posted:WWE wrestlers literally conspire with one another to attack outsiders who criticize the company as Mark Henry let slip this week. link
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May 20, 2020 20:05
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Smoking Crow posted:link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4olzGrTNOk About 3/4 of the way through he says how people in the locker room have been calling him asking if he wants them to dog pile Lio Rush.
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May 20, 2020 20:11
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Just lol at Mark appointing himself the ambassador of all black wrestlers and then getting shook as hell when Lio Rush refused to bend the knee
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May 20, 2020 20:55
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MassRafTer posted:WWE wrestlers literally conspire with one another to attack outsiders who criticize the company as Mark Henry let slip this week. That sucks. I can't imagine that it's all 145,945 wrestlers employed by the company but it's still not a good look.
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May 20, 2020 22:26
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Benne posted:Just lol at Mark appointing himself the ambassador of all black wrestlers and then getting shook as hell when Lio Rush refused to bend the knee Mark Henry is no Godfather
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May 20, 2020 22:42
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BrigadierSensible posted:I have a question about wrestling outside the US. A basic truth about sports fandoms is that at their core they're all pretty terrible. The more passionate they are, the worse they tend to be. But when a bandwagon is very big its easy to dismiss the unreasonable or belligerent few who pile on critics or defend bad stuff. Its noise that becomes easy to ignore or gets overpowered. Its that thing where like poster X disagrees with the majority, 20 people respond, 2 or 3 of those people are really nasty, and then when poster X gets upset about them the other 17 people say "we treated you with respect." They're not trying to be unfair or anything, its just a noise to signal ratio. But every large enough group has its share of assholes and every fanbase has people who put too much of their identity into it and lose perspective. When poo poo gets bad for a fanbase and people jump off the bandwagon or get quiet... that's when you really hear the worst of them. When there's some scandal or really bad performances or whatever, that's when all that noise cuts away and you just get a very vocal part of the fanbase doubling down extra hard to defend their thing with none of that cover of all those more reasonable people. So like, I'm sure AAA and NJPW and AEW and whoever else have their rear end in a top hat fans. But as long as they're not mired in controversy or bleeding fans from their bandwagon they'll feel like a minority of the whole. WWE's worst fans are on showcase right now because stuff has been sucking for WWE for awhile, and something like the Dark Side of the Ring really intensifies it from both sides.
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May 21, 2020 00:37
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Hedgehog Pie posted:That sucks. 5-6 guys is what he said in the video.
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May 21, 2020 01:14
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So, from what I've gathered, Owen Hart was a good guy with a good head on his shoulders and a smart outlook on the business (i.e. he wanted to do his time, save his money and get out while he was healthy so he could be with his family) and Bret definitely has his....rough edges, but is mostly a decent guy. Not sure how else to put this, but. Uh. Are the rest of the Harts scumbags?
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May 21, 2020 03:40
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MJeff posted:Not sure how else to put this, but. Uh. Are the rest of the Harts scumbags? Let me tell you about a man named Teddy
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May 21, 2020 03:42
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MJeff posted:So, from what I've gathered, Owen Hart was a good guy with a good head on his shoulders and a smart outlook on the business (i.e. he wanted to do his time, save his money and get out while he was healthy so he could be with his family) and Bret definitely has his....rough edges, but is mostly a decent guy. Mostly.
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May 21, 2020 03:49
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MJeff posted:So, from what I've gathered, Owen Hart was a good guy with a good head on his shoulders and a smart outlook on the business (i.e. he wanted to do his time, save his money and get out while he was healthy so he could be with his family) and Bret definitely has his....rough edges, but is mostly a decent guy. I forget which Hart it was but my wrestling teacher stayed with him. Place was filled with house flies and this Hart tried cooking roadkill for breakfast.
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May 21, 2020 03:50
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That sounds like a Teddy thing to do. Guy's got genuine mental problems he refuses to treat.
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May 21, 2020 03:52
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MJeff posted:Not sure how else to put this, but. Uh. Are the rest of the Harts scumbags? After all the horrible poo poo Vince has done to the whole Hart family, from screwing over Stu over $9m, to screwing Bret, to Killing Owen, to not giving a poo poo when Samoa Joe nearly paralyzed her husband and she had to drive him to the hospital. Natalya is like the ultimate boot licker, what the gently caress is she doing with that fart poo poo if not just for Vince's enjoyment of shaming the Hart's. I'm not saying Stu was an angel, he was a loving monster, and if he was in Vince's spot, the only difference would be his sons could actually wrestle
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May 21, 2020 03:54
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DeathChicken posted:That sounds like a Teddy thing to do. Guy's got genuine mental problems he refuses to treat. Might have been Smith Hart, who is such a monumental fuckup he got thrown out of the house
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May 21, 2020 04:01
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The Harts have just also struck me as a deeply carnie family so like I never really was surprised that they all were hosed up and had hosed up relationships with the business. Call it nature, call it nurture, I'm more surprised when one gets out ok. The Anoa'i family seems mostly ok. I mean Snuka wasn't really a member so I guess he doesn't gently caress up the curve. But for how many members they have in the business they don't seem that hosed up, at least publicly.
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May 21, 2020 04:05
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STAC Goat posted:The Harts have just also struck me as a deeply carnie family so like I never really was surprised that they all were hosed up and had hosed up relationships with the business. Call it nature, call it nurture, I'm more surprised when one gets out ok. I hear they almost rioted on Vince after Roman didn't go over at WM31, so I have to deduct points from them for not actually doing it.
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May 21, 2020 04:06
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Might have been Smith Hart, who is such a monumental fuckup he got thrown out of the house That's the one.
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May 21, 2020 04:07
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Getting kicked out of Stu's house probably sounds like a blessing til you realize the dude probably didn't goto school and only knew the history of gotch and carny business. and welp I read his wiki page / wiki page on his book and  (no pun intended!!!)quote:In 1978, Hart was attending the Oktoberfest in Germany together with Tom Billington and his brother Bruce to represent Stampede Wrestling in an international wrestling tournament, when Hart was called out he entered the ring with a Hitler mustache and performed a Nazi salute in an attempt to play a joke on the other wrestlers.[64] The bolded one did make me laugh though, that's such a Teddy thing, prolly renting it out to that hosed up florida guy (lol i know thats a big field), Chayse or whatever
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May 21, 2020 04:17
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MassRafTer posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4olzGrTNOk About 3/4 of the way through he says how people in the locker room have been calling him asking if he wants them to dog pile Lio Rush. I always assumed when WWE wrestlers start dogpiling someone that it was an edict from management. If they're doing it of their own volition that's just pathetic.
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May 21, 2020 04:20
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Bret's blessing and curse is that he takes himself and wrestling far more seriously than the business or the people he works for deserve. It made him on of the absolute all-time greats but it also clouds his judgment on many things.
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May 21, 2020 04:26
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I always thought it was a little naive and odd when people assumed every wrestler piled on was mandated from the upper offices. Like that's the entire point of a cult, that you indoctrinate people into doing it themselves. And even beyond the "cult" stuff its totally natural for people to be naturally defensive about their friends, peers, and place of work. People get sensitive and overreact all the time and lash out against people who threaten their personal little world. So it actually makes a lot more sense to me for a bunch of guys to be like "Someone attacked Mark? I love Mark. We should go stick up for Mark!" than for them to get a memo from Connecticut of their new talking points. Although I think that probably happens sometimes too. But sometimes its just people being defensive fragile assholes all on their own. Or just naturally siding with the guy they know. Or other totally normal but not always good human behaviors. Mark Henry might not be a bad person. I have no idea. But he's got 20 years of indoctrination, WWE has given him everything in his life, pretty much his entire adult life has been spent working for them, he's been a good soldier and they gold watched him and made him feel appreciated. Its no surprise he's an unwavering defender of their poo poo and no surprise that for every Lio Rush who bucked against it there's 5-20 guys who bought in and would jump to Mark's defense.
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May 21, 2020 04:27
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They have a "Union" of wrestlers to bring to Judge Callaway, and ambassadors from each race to co-ordinate strikes against defectors. If only there was some way they could use that "Union" thing to help them, and everyone they work with who make that shithead Vince billions of dollars to give them some sort of rights... Of course they'res gonna be scabs, but who's going to watch Ziggler/Corbin/Charlotte for 5 hours a week; NXT would like cease to exist because it would just be all green PC talent
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May 21, 2020 04:28
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I feel like there's gotta be that pressure for everyone, but Rollins goes above and beyond. Like there's a reason he's singled out as being super defensive whenever people are down on WWE.
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May 21, 2020 04:36
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I don't think fans would have turned on Rollins so fast if he didn't have a twitter account. Word spreads, and he was just being a douchebag, non-kayfabe, then we had HIAC, and he's been hated ever since (and always by me) hint: don't do your fake wrestling on twitter idiots, or don't have an account (please)
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May 21, 2020 04:40
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I think Rollins probably DOES get a lot of pressure from up high because of his high position in the promotion. Someone like him probably gets told directly to go out and do press and defend WWE and attack their critics. For people lower in the hierarchy that's probably more of a peer pressure and community thing. But also Rollins is obviously just a tool on his own so he does what he's told and then handles it really badly. Like Goldberg came out after he won the belt and did one of those "those fans don't know what they like" speeches. And Roman was doing them when he was first on top (and probably was kind of immature and insecure and handling it bad himself until his life seemed to give him a lot of perspective). And that stuff is clearly company mandated. But Rollins is such a disliked party because he clearly went beyond the company mandate. Once you're picking fights with random wrestlers on Twitter and insulting your "brother" in interviews you've internalized it beyond the company memos for some reason or another.
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May 21, 2020 04:42
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Im sure Rollins gets told to same some things but im sure he defends most of it on his own. He doesn't have to have cognitive dissonance to defend WWE. Hes at the top and has been since around the time he got there and probably never saw the bad treatment WWE gets accused of.
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May 21, 2020 04:52
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Mark Henry is not a bad person. He does more good than he does bad, even if he is a company man and the company is deeply evil. But he has legitimately done a lot of good work in the world. He has also developed an ego about it.
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May 21, 2020 05:31
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Yeah, good point. Rollins has had an absolutely blessed WWE experience and has basically never gone through a period where he wasn't be pushed. If he can't gather empathy for friends and peers (and the stuff he says suggests he struggles with that) then to him WWE probably is exceptional.
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May 21, 2020 05:32
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I don't keep up with current WWE but having recently watched some mid-to-late 1996 shows - when they were starting to get decimated in terms of ratings, attendances, and in some cases even match quality by WCW - I do feel like management has a part to play in relaying what they want wrestlers to say when they feel "threatened" as a company. A bizarre amount of promos around this time included a tag line like "and I'm proud to be a part of the best wrestling company in the world!". I distinctly remember both Bret Hart and Jerry Lawler, who were otherwise diametrically opposed in terms of alignment and character, doing this in quick succession, and it usually sounded suspiciously similar to the sort of corporate marketing speak that Vince regularly espoused on commentary. So I didn't know anything about the Mark Henry thing (thanks for filling me in!), and I'm sure a lot of wrestlers are just assholes because wrestling is an awful carny business, but I also don't think it's a coincidence that more "praising WWE" tweets and comments have been posted here since AEW became a thing.
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May 21, 2020 06:54
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MJeff posted:So, from what I've gathered, Owen Hart was a good guy with a good head on his shoulders and a smart outlook on the business (i.e. he wanted to do his time, save his money and get out while he was healthy so he could be with his family) and Bret definitely has his....rough edges, but is mostly a decent guy. Owen is only considered a good guy because he died, he was just as bad as the rest of the family
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May 21, 2020 08:19
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I don't keep up with current WWE but having recently watched some mid-to-late 1996 shows - when they were starting to get decimated in terms of ratings, attendances, and in some cases even match quality by WCW - I do feel like management has a part to play in relaying what they want wrestlers to say when they feel "threatened" as a company. A bizarre amount of promos around this time included a tag line like "and I'm proud to be a part of the best wrestling company in the world!". I distinctly remember both Bret Hart and Jerry Lawler, who were otherwise diametrically opposed in terms of alignment and character, doing this in quick succession, and it usually sounded suspiciously similar to the sort of corporate marketing speak that Vince regularly espoused on commentary. Match quality absolutely was better in WCW during that time. The main events were iffy at best, but the undercard was vastly superior
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May 21, 2020 08:22
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I think the adage is that, if you took the first half of a WCW show and the back half of a WWF show, you'd have an amazing card. Or you could combine the bottom half of a WWF card and the top half of WCW and get the worst show ever made.
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May 21, 2020 08:41
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Randaconda posted:Owen is only considered a good guy because he died, he was just as bad as the rest of the family This is a.....uh, hot take
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May 21, 2020 08:44
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In a family whose scumbaggery ranged from injecting people with milk as a joke to rape, the worst thing we know of Owen doing was shoot piledriving Steve Austin and never apologizing for it.
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May 21, 2020 08:48
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DeathChicken posted:In a family whose scumbaggery ranged from injecting people with milk as a joke to rape, the worst thing we know of Owen doing was shoot piledriving Steve Austin and never apologizing for it. picking up hitchhikers and leaving them in a totally different town! hilarious! "practical jokes" is just bullying under a different name
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May 21, 2020 08:52
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I seem to recall hearing that Owen had a habit of relentlessly pranking people and going way too far with a lot of them.
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May 21, 2020 09:12
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TriffTshngo posted:I seem to recall hearing that Owen had a habit of relentlessly pranking people and going way too far with a lot of them. Yes, he was a bully, but since he died, we're not allowed to mention the fact he was just as terrible as the other Harts.
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May 21, 2020 09:16
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You sure picked one hell of a week to break out these takes
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May 21, 2020 09:26
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It wasn't unprompted but i think enough has been said about what kind of person owen hart was. If enough hasn't been said, then whoop my little rear end
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May 21, 2020 11:00
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