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PoptartsNinja posted:
He puts the eyepatch on when he's working 'after hours'?
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May 22, 2020 12:39
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is it possible to mod in the pirate eyepatch?
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May 22, 2020 12:55
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The Lone Badger posted:Mercenaries in general, yes. But the Argonauts specifically tend to work for pirates and be bad news for the local government. Land-to-space weapons are also very expensive (and most are probably lostech at this point), so Planet Bumfuck in the middle of the periphery isn't gonna have anything capable of shooting down the Argo. Hell, most planets in the core of the Successor States probably don't have that capability.
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May 22, 2020 14:55
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Technowolf posted:Land-to-space weapons are also very expensive (and most are probably lostech at this point), so Planet Bumfuck in the middle of the periphery isn't gonna have anything capable of shooting down the Argo. The successor states just tell the jumpships not to carry you anywhere and they're too big of customers to say no to. Either you starve to death out in space, or you land and they drop a real military unit on you, or eventually one of their warships swings by and kills you. As far as the people who matter care, the Argo is full of good contractors who can work dispassionately and keep their mouths shut.
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May 22, 2020 20:31
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Technowolf posted:Land-to-space weapons are also very expensive (and most are probably lostech at this point), so Planet Bumfuck in the middle of the periphery isn't gonna have anything capable of shooting down the Argo. The best you could hope for in 3025 is that maybe your planet is important enough to warrant a couple of dropships and a few wings of aerospace fighters that can screen enemy forces before they reach the ground, and even then, Space is Big, and it's entirely possible for a dropship to arrive via pirate point and be well on their way before your forces even realize someone is there. Many invasion are successful simply because the people who should be intercepting the dropships coming in are on the complete opposite side of the planet and can't hope to launch and intercept the attackers in time. Battletech may take a lot of liberties with its sci-fi, but it does a pretty good job when it comes to the issues with space combat, such as 'momentum' and 'limited firing range'. You could be on your way to intercept a target, and suddenly it course corrects just a couple of degrees, and that couple of degrees will mean the difference between you broadsiding the dropship and you never even catching sight of them as they pass you thousands of miles away.
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May 22, 2020 20:36
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Rorahusky posted:The best you could hope for in 3025 is that maybe your planet is important enough to warrant a couple of dropships and a few wings of aerospace fighters that can screen enemy forces before they reach the ground, and even then, Space is Big, and it's entirely possible for a dropship to arrive via pirate point and be well on their way before your forces even realize someone is there. Many invasion are successful simply because the people who should be intercepting the dropships coming in are on the complete opposite side of the planet and can't hope to launch and intercept the attackers in time. To get that in actual physics, 1970's telescopes are LosTech. Space is big, but it's also cold and any dropship is necessarily not. Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 22:38 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 22:33
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The way space works in BattleTech never really made sense. There's just not enough happening out there for a culture advanced enough for interstellar war.
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May 22, 2020 23:36
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Too big for a game to handle. Everything needs condensing down to the point a game can have weight, results in everything paring down to a wafer-thin veneer on the surface of space poverty.
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May 23, 2020 00:29
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Foxfire_ posted:To get that in actual physics, 1970's telescopes are LosTech. Space is big, but it's also cold and any dropship is necessarily not. Everything in Battletech is Lostech. This /is/ Battletech we're talking about.
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May 23, 2020 01:53
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I think the space stuff actually works. Space is just too big to cover cost effectively. Major powers need fleets to kill other fleets, but you'd have to really really piss someone off to justify the expense of killing someone who you could just pay to be someone else's problem. There are so many ways to approach a planet that ensuring some sort of defense grid would be impractical for all but the most wealthy and important worlds. For everyone else, you know where your important poo poo is. Much cheaper to post up guards there.
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May 23, 2020 01:57
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Although the game does need to mention that orbital bombardments are extremely not allowed, which is basically the only way to resolve that little issue. I think it's just mentioned in a loading screen hint though.
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May 23, 2020 06:40
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Sorites posted:Although the game does need to mention that orbital bombardments are extremely not allowed, which is basically the only way to resolve that little issue. I think it's just mentioned in a loading screen hint though. Because Lostech, not only is orbital bombardment a warcrime, but so is shooting down Dropships. Also mentioned in the same loading screen hint. Surface - Orbit vessels are just too valuable, basically
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May 24, 2020 01:33
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DropShips are still fair game, but JumpShips are off limits. The Argo just happens to look a fair bit like a stubby JumpShip and do you really want to take the risk of everyone getting pissed at you for shooting one of those down?
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May 24, 2020 01:41
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I think the space stuff actually works. Space is just too big to cover cost effectively. Major powers need fleets to kill other fleets, but you'd have to really really piss someone off to justify the expense of killing someone who you could just pay to be someone else's problem. Pretty much this, yeah. Unless your planet is extremely important, the most you could probably hope for in terms of space defense is a couple of dropships and a wing of aerospace fighters, both of which pull double duty as a means of transporting troops and as air support respectively... and when that's all you have to keep an enemy dropship from touching down, you tend to keep them close to home. That said, the Argo really is a sitting duck, since at least with a normal dropship, you can actually... ya know, drop and get to somewhere defensible rather than just part yourself in orbit and pray that some enterprising fighter jocks don't buzz your ship. Thank god we're out in the Periphery where 95% of the planets don't even have that level of defense.
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May 24, 2020 01:56
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So let's say I'm a mechwarrior or a full merc company that wants to retire. What would be considered "retirement" money? Like in my current game, I'm sitting on 15 million credits or space bucks or whatever they're called. Is that a lot of money in the Battletech universe?
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May 24, 2020 02:45
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Rorahusky posted:Pretty much this, yeah. Unless your planet is extremely important, the most you could probably hope for in terms of space defense is a couple of dropships and a wing of aerospace fighters, both of which pull double duty as a means of transporting troops and as air support respectively... and when that's all you have to keep an enemy dropship from touching down, you tend to keep them close to home. Note that Leopards are armed, and heavily enough to make an assault 'mech jealous. 2 PPCs, 3 LRM20s, and 12 assorted medium/large lasers. That's enough to gently caress up some aerospace fighters, even if it'd eventually lose against a full squadron or two. Obviously that doesn't help while the Leopard is off on a mission, and honestly this particular Leopard may have its weapons stripped because it never fires them in-game, but then again neither do any other dropships. Anyway, for the most part attacking a Dropship just isn't economical. Easier to either pay the mercs to go away or just blow them up on the ground.
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May 24, 2020 03:15
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Heir03 posted:So let's say I'm a mechwarrior or a full merc company that wants to retire. What would be considered "retirement" money? Like in my current game, I'm sitting on 15 million credits or space bucks or whatever they're called. Is that a lot of money in the Battletech universe? Apparently it's five 1985 dollars to one 3025 C-Bill, so you'd have 75 million 1985 dollars to you name. So maybe mid-tier upper class retirement but not billionaire yacht money retirement 
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May 24, 2020 03:22
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Zurai posted:honestly this particular Leopard may have its weapons stripped because it never fires them in-game, but then again neither do any other dropships. I believe there are some events - PTN's even shown one - which imply that it's still armed.
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May 24, 2020 03:38
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Heir03 posted:So let's say I'm a mechwarrior or a full merc company that wants to retire. What would be considered "retirement" money? Like in my current game, I'm sitting on 15 million credits or space bucks or whatever they're called. Is that a lot of money in the Battletech universe? That's good money if you're content to remain a peasant, but peasants have no rights and there's nothing stopping the nobility from just murdering you and taking your money unless you've got a noble title yourself. The real retirement goal of a mercenary commander is to get noticed by a great house and knighted/ennobled at some point so their children will be able to live comfortably. That requires money to buy land for a fief, at which point your employees can stick around and become persons-at-arms, can go hire themselves out elsewhere, or if the new noble decides to continue being a mercenary for discretionary funds they can remain part of the merc unit. With some successor states, like the Free Worlds League or the Lyran Commonwealth, buying your way into a noble title is entirely feasible, but that takes a lot of money. Barring that, the next best retirement option is to build up an almost-as-sizable amount of money and retired to a periphery state where you'll be a big fish in a small pond, even if you are a peasant. Most of the periphery states are complete hellholes, with the Magistracy of Canopus being the notable exception.
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May 24, 2020 05:02
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Don't people have, like, rights and stuff in the Magicstracy? They'll probably tax you some but you could likely keep most of it. There are some neutral planets like Solaris that let people settle down with wealth too.
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May 24, 2020 05:08
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PoptartsNinja posted:That's good money if you're content to remain a peasant, but peasants have no rights and there's nothing stopping the nobility from just murdering you and taking your money unless you've got a noble title yourself. Doesn't having a lance or two of mechs make you a noble in a lot of places?
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May 24, 2020 05:56
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The Lone Badger posted:Doesn't having a lance or two of mechs make you a noble in a lot of places? See the 'Big fish in a small pond' statement PTN laid out above. Fact of the matter is it's space feudalism. If you're not a peer then you're not protected by the rules and rigmarole that nobles have to spend time and effort maneuvering around/subverting/paying mercenaries for to get their way. There's always someone with more mechs/resources/money.
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May 24, 2020 08:59
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The Lone Badger posted:Doesn't having a lance or two of mechs make you a noble in a lot of places? Only in the periphery. If you were to take your lance(s) of 'Mechs and seize a barony on some planet in a great house's territory... congratulations! You just committed a planetary assault and 'declared' yourself a noble in a way that's a direct challenge to the power of the leader of that successor state. Since all nobles theoretically get their power from the Archon / First Prince / Captain General (ok not this one so much) / Celestial Wisdom / Coordinator you have just made yourself the enemy of an entire successor state and, barring potential support from rogue factions already at odds with the state's leader, are certain to be removed by the actual military at the state's earliest convenience. They cannot possibly allow you to succeed (barring some weird exceptions in the Draconis Combine where this is actually legal) because it opens the door for anyone else with a 'Mech doing the same thing. Might doesn't make right in the successor states, might either makes 'close enough for me' or 'oh, hell no.' In the Inner Sphere, the nobility is still theoretically governed by laws. So, take JSON for example, he's a noble from the Free Worlds League, but he's clearly an unlanded noble which means he's essentially broke and powerless. That means one of a few things: A) his family lived above their means and sold off their land piece by piece as bills came due B) a noble with greater power coveted his family's lands for whatever reason and found an excuse to seize it C) JSON was a supernumerary heir in a fief too small to support him. The answer to which of these is true is directly addressed by his backstory choices:  His family were betrayed, presumably by a noble they trusted, and their lands seized. Left powerless and destitute, he became an actual pirate to seek revenge. Now, in theory he's probably within some sort of legal gray area where it would be ok to take the Argonauts back to his home planet and reclaim his family's land by force but if it was usurped by someone extremely powerful he will be outmaneuvered in court and forced to relinquish it. So, as a former pirate turned mercenary, he can try to work his way back into the Free Worlds League's good graces in the hopes of befriending / rescuing an even more powerful noble in position to back him if he does get an opportunity to retake his family's lands. Or we can seduce another successor state, proving ourselves helpful and friendly enough that they'll either: A) grant us land B) eliminate the family that's taken our family's lands so we they can implant us as a noble "friendly" to their government.
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May 24, 2020 11:19
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This is my first exposure to the setting, so please bear with me if this is a dumb question: Is there an in-lore reason why you get to salvage battlefields after you evac? I've just won a base assault, but it ended with an evacuation; I didn't clear the board. But I still got salvage. Is that just a construct for the video game, or is the idea that the dropship scares off the hostiles once it arrives?
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May 24, 2020 18:24
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Video game construct, it's an abstraction of what's actually happening. In-universe salvage crews do exist to pick over battlefields after a fight happens, but they usually show up weeks or months later at the behest of a great house or local government. Mercenary units often salvage anything they can physically drag off the field, and if a house winds up in total control of the battle site they're supposed to divvy out the salvage to the mercenary unit that won the field for them. This game's contract system is the opposite of how mercenaries actually work but it's a fine abstraction. In universe, merc units get contracted for specific tasks first (garrison this base for a year, raid this facility in the next six months, assassinate this target in the next six months) then go to the planet and do them. Because in-universe fights are usually skirmishes that might see one or two 'Mechs taken out on both sides before one side decides they're losing and retreats in good order, it's usually clearer which side has "won" the field*. Neither the BattleTech computer game, the Mechwarrior games, nor the BattleTech tabletop game have ever been good at representing the skirmish-y nature of 3025 BattleTech. A situation where an entire lance gets wiped out is a big and scary deal and often means whoever was in charge made a huge mistake. *With the exception of fights involving House Kurita, because the snakes are crazy and their entire military is built on them never backing down from anything ever. There're two reasons why House Kurita has arguably had the most successful military in BattleTech: 1) they treat every fight as something they must win at all costs, and 2) they accidentally had the best AeroSpace force composition. Not necessarily the best pilots, mind, but their AeroSpace fighters can fulfill more roles than the other nations until 3050 when the Clans force everyone back to relative parity in space. Things change in 3050 because, like House Kurita, the Clans have no chill. You wipe them off the battlefield or they keep attacking you until they've done the same to you. It's very rare for the Clans to give up, their whole mindset is "I'm about to lose everything but if I can shoot one more time I might still win."
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May 24, 2020 18:53
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PoptartsNinja posted:Things change in 3050 because, like House Kurita, the Clans have no chill. You wipe them off the battlefield or they keep attacking you until they've done the same to you. It's very rare for the Clans to give up, their whole mindset is "I'm about to lose everything but if I can shoot one more time I might still win." Ah, so they have the same approach as I do to every single video game I've ever played. 
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May 24, 2020 23:27
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They think they're the protagonists, yes. That's what makes them monsters. See also: - Myndo Waterly - Victor Davion - Devlin Stone
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May 24, 2020 23:44
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PoptartsNinja posted:This game's contract system is the opposite of how mercenaries actually work but it's a fine abstraction. In universe, merc units get contracted for specific tasks first (garrison this base for a year, raid this facility in the next six months, assassinate this target in the next six months) then go to the planet and do them. Sounds like The Mandalorian. Neat.
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May 25, 2020 01:37
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Technowolf posted:Land-to-space weapons are also very expensive (and most are probably lostech at this point), so Planet Bumfuck in the middle of the periphery isn't gonna have anything capable of shooting down the Argo. I think we had a discussion about this topic in the battletech thread in games a couple of months ago and I think the conclusion was "lol battletech"
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May 25, 2020 18:40
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Battletech genuinely shows it's age because of its lack of drones, cultural signaling and old school economic outlook.
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May 25, 2020 18:43
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Lawman 0 posted:Battletech genuinely shows it's age because of its lack of drones, cultural signaling and old school economic outlook.
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May 25, 2020 19:11
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Has there ever been a justification for the mechs being piloted? It's giving me the same problem as when we found out Tony Stark could operate an Iron Man suit just as well from a distance.
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May 25, 2020 20:58
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Sorites posted:Has there ever been a justification for the mechs being piloted? It's giving me the same problem as when we found out Tony Stark could operate an Iron Man suit just as well from a distance. They're based on 1980's tech. You cannot drive a 'Mech with a 14k dialup connection.
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May 25, 2020 21:25
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Sorites posted:Has there ever been a justification for the mechs being piloted? It's giving me the same problem as when we found out Tony Stark could operate an Iron Man suit just as well from a distance. In universe, it's stated (by people who don't really understand the technology) that it's because BattleMechs use the pilot's inner ear to balance themselves. I personally believe there's a lot more going on, but the TLDR version is: 'Mechs need pilot brainwaves in order to work. They can sort of move without a pilot hooked up to them, but they can't walk.
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May 25, 2020 21:31
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Which leads me to my next question of whether there's an in-universe reason for them to be humanoid at all, but at this point maybe I need to admit they have me and start buying books.
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May 25, 2020 22:18
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They're partially or totally controlled by human brainwaves. Two arms + two legs is easier to map to human brainwaves, and extra limbs doesn't really offer much benefit. If it did, we'd have six legged bears. There are tripod designs that show up later, but they're all dual-pilot models and really, really weird. Edit: There are also 'Mechs with more than two arms. Some sport the 'fine manipulators' quirk, which basically means they have an extra pair (or multiple pairs) of tiny extra arms with very precise hands, but they don't provide a mechanical combat benefit; so they're just marked as a 0 pv quirk. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 22:40 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 22:32
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A lot of this DNA must have made its way into Pacific Rim, I guess.
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May 25, 2020 22:55
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Sorites posted:Which leads me to my next question of whether there's an in-universe reason for them to be humanoid at all, but at this point maybe I need to admit they have me and start buying books. This path leads down to the dark ages. Let's not
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May 25, 2020 23:05
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PoptartsNinja posted:They're partially or totally controlled by human brainwaves. Two arms + two legs is easier to map to human brainwaves, and extra limbs doesn't really offer much benefit. If it did, we'd have six legged bears. Would Clan Ghost Bear have tried that with actual ghost bears?
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May 26, 2020 00:13
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Sorites posted:A lot of this DNA must have made its way into Pacific Rim, I guess. A lot of it is standard mech stuff you'd find in almost any setting they arise in. Battletech at least makes it neurohelmeted control for the best space-roboteers rather than space-magic.
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May 26, 2020 02:55
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