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GyverMac posted:he HR-lady told us "nu må du lige slappe af, det er ingen her som skal pule hinanden i røven!"** KozmoNaut posted:That is luckily not a universal Danish thing, holy hell.
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May 22, 2020 11:38
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Yet, that is exactly what they did to us.
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GyverMac posted:I'm a Norwegian. And the company I used to work with got bought up by Danish investors. It was a huge culture shock for us. We were used to having a flat hierarchy at my workplace, with a friendly and casual tone between workers, leaders and bosses. But the Danes would not have any of this. As a Union representant I found myself in the thick of things as the Danish owners fought with us to restructure the company into a micro managed hell hole. I knew things was about get real bad when in the first meeting between the union and the new leadership, the HR-lady told us "nu må du lige slappe af, det er ingen her som skal pule hinanden i røven!"** My wife has the same experience. Working in a company with offices in all Nordic countries, the Danes are the hugest assholes at work by far. Like it's not even a competition - screaming, bullying, trying to make other people do their work, never apologizing, the whole nine yard. Completely friendly outside the work environment, but put them in an office chair and they turn into assholes. After talking to some Danish friends, we chalked it down to a very different way of thinking about hierarchies in the workplace, subtle and unspoken versus very clearly stated. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 12:26 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 12:23
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Another tale of overbearing unions getting in the way of entrepreneurs and bringing down a successful business. Sorry, GyverMac, that sounds awful.
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May 22, 2020 12:53
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lilljonas posted:My wife has the same experience. Working in a company with offices in all Nordic countries, the Danes are the hugest assholes at work by far. Like it's not even a competition - screaming, bullying, trying to make other people do their work, never apologizing, the whole nine yard. I think it might got something to do with Denmark sharing borders with mainland europe. They face much harsher competition than Norway and Sweden because right across the border they have Germany and its massive industrial capabilities, so business is more cutthroat. A Buttery Pastry posted:The owners definitely expected you Norwegians to be a bunch of unsophisticated servile yokels who'd do what they were told, so any pushback was a great offense. Yep, you are 100% right on the money there. Very early on we noticed that any resistance against the system they set up was treated as a offense to them, I'm not kidding, at times it was like grasp ones pearls and go "How DARE you!" kind of reactions. GyverMac fucked around with this message at 14:33 on May 22, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 14:07
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GyverMac posted:I think it might got something to do with Denmark sharing borders with mainland europe. They face much harsher competition than Norway and Sweden because right across the border they have Germany and its massive industrial capabilities, so business is more cutthroat. norwegian business is entirely competitive internationally, we're in the single market ffs
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May 22, 2020 14:15
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norwegian tripartism is super focussed on driving productivity, it's how we have business in this country. the idea that strong unions is a bad thing for international competitiveness is strictly false, a pernicious lie. strong unions are bad for profitability, not competitiveness
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May 22, 2020 14:17
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GyverMac posted:I think it might got something to do with Denmark sharing borders with mainland europe. They face much harsher competition than Norway and Sweden because right across the border they have Germany and its massive industrial capabilities, so business is more cutthroat. I've had plenty of international co-workers tell me that Danes office workers are excessively rude and disrespectful. They also often find it stressful that most companies expect and encourage questioning superiors - something which is frowned upon in most cultures. I don't think it's about our shared border and cultural heritage with Germany - but we're in many ways a nation of petty farmers. We squabble and fight constantly. It's not the cutthroat ambition of jungle-capitalism - it's the petty ambition of small town farmers fighting to gain a few metres of land, trying to trick and cheat neighbors and arguing over who has the best cattle. We'll work together when interests align - but bosses will distrust underlings, and underlings will try to further their own agendas. We're rude and direct, and we expect people to fight for territory. Think of a Danish office as a rural backwater, every department a small village, and every desk a farm looking out mostly for themselves. I'm exaggerating of course - and the strangely conflict-filled and petty environment is actually pretty conducive to innovation and getting things done. Danish exceptionalism is a problem. Danes will often treat any international company they take over as being run by inferior people doing everything wrong. But we're a great place for people who like the opportunity to be rude and ignore direct orders!
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May 22, 2020 16:01
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danish culture has been poisoned by a weird, deeply chauvinist liberality on every level and it *sucks* my contempt for denmark and the perfidious dane knows hardly any bounds
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May 22, 2020 16:32
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Danes are Skaven. Got it.
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May 22, 2020 17:25
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danes are complacently bourgeois shitheads who take pride in their complacent bourgeois shitheadery and relentlessly condescend to anyone who doesn't 'say it like it is (I.e. give voice to various reactionary attitudes that We All Know You're Really Thinking You Coward), confuses crassness with authenticity and chauvinism with communalism they killed their greatest poet out of sheer cultural arrogance and justify their introduction of systemic, widespread racism with the unwoke attitudes of ethnic minorities denmark is the toilet, the wankstain, the discarded foreskin of scandinavia. it is a wholly excreable country
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May 22, 2020 17:31
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Det här må vara en Max-drivethru, men fan om du inte har en poäng.
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May 22, 2020 17:34
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V. Illych L. posted:denmark is the toilet, the wankstain, the discarded foreskin of scandinavia. it is a wholly excreable country Jesus christ dude, what did Denmark do to you?
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May 22, 2020 17:45
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GyverMac posted:Jesus christ dude, what did Denmark do to you?
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May 22, 2020 17:54
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He's right.
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May 22, 2020 17:56
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V. Illych L. posted:they killed their greatest poet out of sheer cultural arrogance More about this? I know little about Intra-Scandi tiffs outside of wars and Denmark’s bonkers racism. (Anything else for a nybörjare to know would also be great, especially if it’s some historical shade. Spilla teet)
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May 22, 2020 17:57
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teen witch posted:More about this? I know little about Intra-Scandi tiffs outside of wars and Denmark’s bonkers racism. yahya hassan, the young star poet of denmark, died recently, presumably from a suicide. a major theme of his poetry was being caught between the defensive, barbed and rather insular danish palestinian immigrant community and the incredibly chauvinistic danish majoritarian society which celebrated him in no small part because he confronted and condemned his family and upbringing, including saying inflammatory stuff about islam. he refused to be One Of The Good Ones, though, and ended up with basically no friends and hardly any real relationships and is now dead
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May 22, 2020 18:09
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SplitSoul posted:He's right.
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May 22, 2020 18:21
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im a member of several different international solidarity orgs, active (not as much as i should be and used to be, sadly) in an anti-racist and pro-refugee org and a card-carrying member of a communist party fwiw
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May 22, 2020 18:25
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V. Illych L. posted:im a member of several different international solidarity orgs, active (not as much as i should be and used to be, sadly) in an anti-racist and pro-refugee org and a card-carrying member of a communist party fwiw My_Canadian_Girlfriend.txt
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May 22, 2020 18:44
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V. Illych L. posted:yahya hassan, the young star poet of denmark, died recently, presumably from a suicide. a major theme of his poetry was being caught between the defensive, barbed and rather insular danish palestinian immigrant community and the incredibly chauvinistic danish majoritarian society which celebrated him in no small part because he confronted and condemned his family and upbringing, including saying inflammatory stuff about islam. he refused to be One Of The Good Ones, though, and ended up with basically no friends and hardly any real relationships and is now dead The guy who shot someone in the foot with a gun?
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May 22, 2020 19:34
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THE BAR posted:The guy who shot someone in the foot with a gun? yeah he had a ton of issues, which he also told everyone about in his poetry - he was a part of the contemporary tradition of the poetry of the self, which added another burden because his artistic project relied on him having hosed up stuff to write about. he himself was the commodity of his labour. yahya hassan was a brilliant man wrecked and ultimately killed by his society. some of this is not peculiar to denmark, but a lot of it is.
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May 22, 2020 19:55
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it's super interesting imo to contrast him with another great contemporary scandinavian poet, athena farrokhzad, who was brought forward by a very different literary milieu and a very different set of norms she's much more aligned with the mainstream-ish PC left than hassan was - imo this is because of big differences between the swedish and danish literati ideology, which are both deeply tinged with racism but to different degrees and to different effects - in the final reckoning, it's very hard for me not to see the danish version as more malignant
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May 22, 2020 20:00
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Yes yes, but did you know that CHRISTIANS weren't allowed to hold funerals, while hundreds attended his? ISLAMIFICATION!!!
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May 22, 2020 20:01
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah he had a ton of issues, which he also told everyone about in his poetry - he was a part of the contemporary tradition of the poetry of the self, which added another burden because his artistic project relied on him having hosed up stuff to write about. he himself was the commodity of his labour. It doesn't matter what medium a person is using; it's always a tragedy when someone with something to say ends up dead before their time. I just wish he hadn't been put in a desperate enough situation to pull a gun on someone or drive while under narcotic influence. Even just potentially risking the lives of bystanders is a terrible legacy to end on.
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May 22, 2020 21:17
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Danish poop might beat out covid-19 in the news yet.
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May 22, 2020 21:31
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He was definitely the strongest poet in many decades, but like the times and social context he grew up in, even at his most subtle, he almost completely lacks subtlety, as well as technical skill. It’s more like a desperately clenched fist than poetry, which is in itself quite amazing. He is no strunge, is what I’m saying. Practically speaking, they killed him too though. The way the entire danish public society suddenly became interested in poetry was disgusting. The intellectual left because there finally was a middle-eastern person they could understand. The right and center because he in his raw desperation confirmed all their bigoted stereotypical opinions about how muslim upbringing and culture is really bad, and gave them an opportunity to use his example for their vile agenda. I guarantee that 90% of the people who bought his book never before nor after had any interest in poetry, or the problems facing immigrant youths in denmark.
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May 23, 2020 11:35
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Did they say yet how he died? I assume OD or suicide.
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May 23, 2020 11:44
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Revelation 2-13 posted:He was definitely the strongest poet in many decades, but like the times and social context he grew up in, even at his most subtle, he almost completely lacks subtlety, as well as technical skill. It’s more like a desperately clenched fist than poetry, which is in itself quite amazing. He is no strunge, is what I’m saying. Practically speaking, they killed him too though. hassan highlights many of the issues with the economy of the self that we've been seeing take hold lately, with influencers, authors and celebrities giving access to their 'authentic' self in order to flog books or sell ice cream or whatever. hassan's book sales were based on his background and his extreme alienation - if he became less alienated he'd lose his appeal and his market value when his first poems were published he was embraced by the assholes and the fascists, who saw him as confirming everything they'd said about immigrants all along (they're savages who beat their kids and lust after our women!) . to his credit, he rejected that. but he still had to play into it a little to sell books... the second collection is mostly focussed on his status as an effective untouchable and celebrity. he keeps pushing his luck and looking for something real. the first part of the collection isn't very good. then he ends up in prison, and writes some good poetry about that and gets some of his edge back - adversity focusses him (and probably not doing drugs constantly helps). he gated the second collection behind him getting a certain number of instagram followers. the dude knew what he was - a worker whose commodity was himself. there are thousands of similarly alienated immigrant kids in denmark, and more in sweden and norway. we *have* to figure out how to deal with that. the present policy of crack-downs and heavy-handed policing is simply not going to cut it
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May 23, 2020 12:12
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Not all Norwegian workplaces are horizontal and jovial. The finance sector or capital B business places like NorgesGruppen have plenty of office politics and shenanigans.
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May 23, 2020 14:22
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V. Illych L. posted:im a member of several different international solidarity orgs, active (not as much as i should be and used to be, sadly) in an anti-racist and pro-refugee org and a card-carrying member of a communist party fwiw Which communist party?
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May 23, 2020 14:24
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rødt
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May 23, 2020 14:45
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thotsky posted:Not all Norwegian workplaces are horizontal and jovial. The finance sector or capital B business places like NorgesGruppen have plenty of office politics and shenanigans. All organizations experience entropy - but some things will accelerate this, and lack of meaningful and tangible production of value, is major driver. Any primarily bureaucratic workplace will experience a powerful drift towards office politics, perversion of objectives and organizational rot. The financial sector is a strange place at the moment - negative interest rates have a profound implication on how profit can be generated in these companies, making it almost impossible to have a sane work environment, as the amount of activity which is profitable and legal at the same time, is greatly reduced. I'm surprised the pandemic hasn't toppled any of the financial institutions struggling to survive. I know that capital is being siphoned just fine into the pockets of shareholders and corporate nobility - but actually making a profit from providing financial services is necessary to maintain the capital reserves required to keep the privileges of issuing credit and gate-keeping access to financial markets.
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May 23, 2020 16:47
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thotsky posted:Not all Norwegian workplaces are horizontal and jovial. The finance sector or capital B business places like NorgesGruppen have plenty of office politics and shenanigans. XXL.
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May 23, 2020 17:34
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Let`s be real tough, compared to anywhere outside of Scandinavia a Danish workplace is nothing extraordinary. But danes do like a to keep a rather rough tone (a sort of playful bullying) which can rub some people the wrong way. I found it very tiring in some of my colleagues from Finnmark. When you have to hear someone talk "straigth from the liver" it every morning it loses much of it`s charm.
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May 24, 2020 01:49
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Obligatory not all Danes post goes here, I guess? Every place I've worked has had the kind of relaxed tone that's being described as being somehow unique to the other Scandinavian countries, so some people ITT are definitely painting with brushstrokes that're too wide. Or maybe ya'all need to get outside of København, at least stop treating all of Denmark as if it is.
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May 24, 2020 12:49
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https://phenomenalworld.org/interviews/gosta-esping-andersen Interesting interview about the Scandinavian welfare states. What are the key books to understanding the historical development of the Scandinavian countries and how they work today? A reading list might be a good OP addition (I realize the OP is old). quote:While looking at the development of distinct social policies in various welfare states, I came upon the idea that the counter-movement is shaped by social context. In particular, it's shaped by the interests and coalitions formed by different classes from the 1800s until the postwar period, and still to this day. This is where Three Worlds began, but the project itself was empirical rather than theoretical. At the time, existing literature conceptualized welfare states through a single indicator: social spending as a percentage of GDP. It had nothing to say about the structural differences between societies. As I compiled data on how these social security systems were developed and how they worked, I came to understand the distinct decommodifying logics which guided the system in each instance. This was rooted in distinct histories of class development.
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May 24, 2020 12:59
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D. Ebdrup posted:Obligatory not all Danes post goes here, I guess?
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May 24, 2020 13:12
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, I have to admit that the tone presented is completely foreign to me too. I'd kinda expect shitheads to become more prevalent as you move from the national to the international, just by virtue of society rewarding shitheads and the companies they run. True, it's very much an tone prevalent in large organizations (not necessarily international) in the capital. As for international - I've found that the more international a company is, the less yokel-ish and rude the tone. The oft-maligned Saxo Bank has mandatory cultural sensitivity training, harsh intolerance of racism and sexism, generous paternity leave that does not damage career prospects and far less tolerance of rudeness than you'd find at most finance sector companies. There's still office politics, chauvinism, glass ceilings and various kinds of prejudice, but it's significantly less than you'd find at Danske Bank, Nordea or similar less-international, but much larger, companies. The Atlas Shrugged gift to new employees and public libertarianism of one founder used to scare many applicants away (those things are no longer relevant if anyone cares), but it's actually an incredibly inclusive company actively trying to foster a better work environment. I've worked at much smaller companies with excessively cut-throat office culture, employees bullied to the point of crying and lack of action taken against sexual harrasment. Speaking of which, in the 80s and 90s, most large insurance and pension companies had employees on duty at company parties, to make sure the rampant sexual harassment didn't get out of hand, as sexual exploitation was an accepted part of corporate culture as a way for females to climb the career ladder - and the corporate nobility forgot about "consent" and keeping it private when they got too drunk. So minders were around to make sure it was kept out of public view. We've come a long way since those days, but there's still an extremly toxic culture in companies that do not have an international outlook.
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May 24, 2020 14:00
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the biography JENS OTTO KRAG by Bo Lidegaard is what gave me the best understanding of how the Danish welfare system came to be and came to be sustained.
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May 24, 2020 14:08
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PederP posted:Saxo Bank I can tell you they subcontracted their web stuff out to a real shithead company.
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May 24, 2020 15:57
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