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Wizard of Legend has updated once with even more arcana and cursed relics, and more importantly, a NPC you can use to save your builds. Give it a shot if you'r looking for really fun arcade rogue-lite experience.
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May 23, 2020 14:48
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Anyone mess around with Sil-Q? http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=9414 It's pretty cool so far they changed around some of the skills and rebalanced the early game a bit so it's not as punishing.
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May 23, 2020 15:25
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BexGu posted:Wizard of Legend has updated once with even more arcana and cursed relics, and more importantly, a NPC you can use to save your builds. Here's a key to give it a shot too. It's a twinstick, if that sort of thing matters to you. Please post if you take it. Wiz@rd of Legend CNC@Q-zeroKP2zero-3ID3@
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May 23, 2020 15:55
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I just grabbed it, thanks Hackan!
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May 23, 2020 16:40
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BexGu posted:Wizard of Legend has updated once with even more arcana and cursed relics, and more importantly, a NPC you can use to save your builds. It's 50% off for the next two days.
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May 23, 2020 19:56
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When I beat the final dungeon in Dungeonmans, am I still able to muck around with that same character and world?
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May 23, 2020 21:35
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yes, and there's like 3 different dynamically scaled post game things to play around with
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May 23, 2020 21:45
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C-Euro posted:When I beat the final dungeon in Dungeonmans, am I still able to muck around with that same character and world? Yep! You can keep exploring dungeons / using adventure maps pretty much indefinitely. The game ends only when you die or retire.
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May 23, 2020 21:47
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Word, I'm level 15 and sleepwalking through everything at this point so I might just shoot my shot now. Of course, "I'm sleepwalking through this" is what everyone says right before they die...
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May 23, 2020 22:36
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There's definitely a period with adventure maps where enemy scaling doesn't keep up with your gear. But they can scale indefinitely, while gear is harder to improve, so it does get harder again after awhile. Level 15 is more than strong enough to win though. Just keep an eye on your resists.
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May 23, 2020 22:56
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Lawman 0 posted:Anyone mess around with Sil-Q? I'd really like to hear an in-depth from those who've played both. I was around when the guy first proposed his fork and I gotta say I wasn't enthused. There where one or two objectively-good things suggested, like how guaranteed forges spawn, and then a whooole lotta "ripping out of old skills to put in poorly thought-out replacements for no good reason" going on. I suspect his good ideas was just seeing what the community consensus was and the bad ideas was him desperately trying to leave his mark on a finished product. I'd assume it's more polished nowadays, but I sure as heck wasn't going to give it a go.
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May 24, 2020 01:09
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Serephina posted:I'd really like to hear an in-depth from those who've played both. I was around when the guy first proposed his fork and I gotta say I wasn't enthused. There where one or two objectively-good things suggested, like how guaranteed forges spawn, and then a whooole lotta "ripping out of old skills to put in poorly thought-out replacements for no good reason" going on. I suspect his good ideas was just seeing what the community consensus was and the bad ideas was him desperately trying to leave his mark on a finished product. I'd assume it's more polished nowadays, but I sure as heck wasn't going to give it a go. It splits the difference between loremaster and lorekeeper into a single skill which is honestly kinda amazing. I've also been taking smithing more to just make stuff but probably because I'm a bad player who likes using horns of blasting. 
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May 24, 2020 03:49
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Demon update is really cool - and I haven't played since brands were added so that's a great new dimension. But I still find myself struggling a lot with what to spend credits on in the early game after you take care of the "obvious" ones (learning Tireless if you're casting, pairing up complementary powers, and applying good brands). What are sort of the bigger goals to "save up for"? Are there specific high-quality fusions you look for? I'm finally improving my early game and getting good value at first, but I feel like I hit this point where my credit just accumulate, I have no great sense how to use them to make me stronger, and then I get outscaled and die.
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May 24, 2020 04:01
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The Red Prison with an update after awhile now better fleshing out Warlocks and Familiars on top of other good gains: https://patjw.itch.io/theredprison/devlog/148138/new-version-released
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May 24, 2020 12:58
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The Red Prison seems real neat but I'm awful at it.
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May 24, 2020 19:23
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Well, I picked up Wizard of Legend. Definitely having a lot of trouble not getting demolished by some of the normal enemies. The combination of hitstun and no i-frames is really brutal. I made it past the 2nd boss once, then got locked in a tiny room with 3 big smashy shadow guys who can't be stunned by anything and will lunge at you from 10 feet away with a large aoe smash attack, and I just couldn't do anything to avoid them. Also, it's not a twinstick, so you have to look in the direction you want to aim. Okay, that's an acceptable decision. However, there's no reason for me to have my character snap to one of the cardinal directions if I let go of the control stick, forcing me to move in the direction of enemies just to aim properly. E: OK, that second one was a toggle in the options to do what I want. Sacrificial Toast fucked around with this message at 21:13 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 21:02
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SaffronKit posted:For the record, Heros of Hammerwatch is a vastly different animal than the first game Hammerwatch. Serephina posted:Interesting! So, I tried out Heroes of Hammerwatch and TLDR it's an conglomeration of every bad design decision possible and nobody should touch it. Basically, the first game had a god-awful gameplay issue of grinding through massive rooms stuffed with spawners that spawned things every-so-slightly slower than you can clear them, making headway possible but mindnumbing. I played the archer for the original and would rather suffer broken ribs than go through that again. For the sequel, they removed the huge-rear end handcrafted (yet very same-y) rooms and did everything procgen. Spawners exist but are much more toned down from what I saw. The grind, however, has now cheerfully been placed into metaprogression for this title which jumped on the Roguelike bandwagon. The town unlocks quickly scale into you-must-be-kidding-me territory. As an extra-special gently caress you to the players, ingame currency (gold, ore) can be either used to advance a run OR unlock metaprogression. Yes, you are actively been told to not spend your cash for items ingame as you can save it to unlock huge cost things post-run. Note that EVERY other goddamn game separates metaprogress currency from ingame currency, because that's just sane design. The cherry on top was me trying out a different character to see if I could mix up the experience a bit, as I was dying consistently with the Paladin in the same spot (but was happy with my progress). I tried out the warlock, found out that none of the gold metaprogression goes between characters (looool), got to my first spawner in Act2 and sat agape as it was able to spawn faster than the warlock, who had a mult-target ranged attack, could handle. The skellies slowly piled down the corrider and killed me as I stared on in PSTD from the first title, and I uninstalled to come write this warning: Stay away.
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May 25, 2020 04:30
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Rogue Legacy should burn in hell for popularizing the really lovely meta-progression in roguelites.
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May 25, 2020 06:31
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Up to Covenant 12 in Monster Train and the difficulty is really starting to kick in. More than the buffs to the monsters, all the extra cards added to your deck really change how you have to approach things. The extra copies of your starting cards is rough cause those are usually trash you want to remove. There's just too many cards to remove every single thing unless that's the only thing you prioritize and then you're passing on something else. The Umbra and Melting Remnant feel the most OP of the factions, both have tricks that negate huge parts of the difficulty. Still having fun with it, and I hope that the design of it means that it will be easy for them to add more content. Boss variety is the biggest thing it lacks right now IMO, even though they have different attacks they are still the same core bosses each time.
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May 25, 2020 07:04
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I thought the entire roguelite genre WAS meta progression?
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May 25, 2020 10:44
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There's nothing wrong with meta-progression, it can be very rewarding. Give me a meta-progression that's nudging me towards being able to experience deeper content as opposed to something like rote memorization of a bunch of obtuse, arcane bullshit in the traditional roguelike model (mainly Nethack, games like Angband and Crawl have been fairly streamlined and are relatively spoiler-free).
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May 25, 2020 11:27
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Buller posted:I thought the entire roguelite genre WAS meta progression? Yes and no. The archetypal roguelite is Binding of Isaac, and while that game has copious unlocks they don't make your initial position stronger. What they do is give new ways to play the game. Slay the Spire's unlocks can actually make you weaker - speed runners always use a fresh save because all the key cards are in the Ironclad basic pool and unlocks dilute it. Games like Legend of Keepers, where you gain new abilities with each run, are not "pure" roguelites in that sense.
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May 25, 2020 11:58
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Nothing wrong with a tiny bit of metaprogression, it lets the dev feed more advanced stuff out slowly. FTL did it with its ship variants, most of which unlock for doing something normal like "get halfway through the game". Nothing wrong with metaprogress currencies. Necrodancer did it best, with diamonds which are only found in training mode, which unlock other toys and permabuffs for training mode. The "real" game mode ignores the stuff entirely and has no unlocks. Other tiles do it well, where the unlocks are to either add variety or spool out advanced stuff slowly. Its when metaprogression is nothing more than vertical growth, ie +2 hp permanently, that things go south. Suddenly the endgame is gated behind sufficient +stats needed "fail forwards" into victory. That's bad. More than a few games do this. (Rogue Legacy?) Some games go even worse, confusing metaprogress with fun, so they think people enjoy grinding five hundred loving hours to get +2% bananna peels. EVERSPACE did this (but was a fun game, despite it) Heroes of Hammerwatch goes the extra loving step, not just content with insane grind nobody would ever want to do, to trivially increment a totally necessary vertical gain stat to make the endgame easier, but also has a slew of other terrible choices, the stuff that Diablo2 hung itself with 20 years ago since the devs didn't understand how players minds work and so had to wing it on the fly, but Hammwatch devs looked at in the modern day and decided that yes, this total bullshit item gambling/postgame challenges/currency sinks should be central to their new title. It's so bad.
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May 25, 2020 12:00
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Buller posted:I thought the entire roguelite genre WAS meta progression? There's such a thing as good, or at least subjectively good, metaprogression. I would point to TOME or FTL for these: you unlock new classes, races, ships, etc. Options, essentially. But what you start with isn't bad, you can easily grab whatever the first things are and go beat a run. I would say the Kestrel is actually one of the better ships in FTL, and the starting Races in TOME are all quite good as well, although unfortunately power creep through expansions has made a lot of the starting classes comparatively weak but still mostly viable. And the way you make metaprogress is by either completing interesting challenges, or by beating the game with certain starting options. I greatly enjoy both of these games, and I think they both have good metaprogression systems. then you have the other kind of metaprogression where you start out underpowered and unlock things that will make your characters stronger, typically by spending some kind of currency that you grind up doing doomed runs. This is the bad kind, and I strongly suspect that the usual reason for its inclusion is to disguise the fact that the game just doesn't have very much content, and if you let the player be strong enough to reasonably win runs from the beginning they'd have beaten the game and exhausted everything it has to offer within a couple of hours at most.
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May 25, 2020 12:22
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roguelikes are single-player battle-royale games
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May 25, 2020 12:27
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Serephina posted:Nothing wrong with a tiny bit of metaprogression, it lets the dev feed more advanced stuff out slowly. FTL did it with its ship variants, most of which unlock for doing something normal like "get halfway through the game". not arguing but i do want to say some people really do enjoy the grind for +2% banana peels for its own sake, at least sometimes. I know I like having mindlessly-simple checkboxes to tick once in a while That said I've been playing UnderMine recently, which also does the fail-forward vertical progression of "fail runs to buy permanent passive stats (and unlock items) to start succeeding". I do like the game but I agree it would have been better if at least you weren't a total weakling at the start
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May 25, 2020 12:32
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Hades does it both ways. You meta progress through currency up to being super strong then unlock ways to handicap yourself. Its weird kinda but it does drag out the lifetime of the game.
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May 25, 2020 13:11
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I wish there was a solid metaprogression in Wizard's Legend that would make me stronger, as the game is hard and there is no difficulty selection :P
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May 25, 2020 13:38
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Rogue Legacy is like Clicker Heroes with surprisingly fun 2D action gameplay. The tower of unlocks is the real goal of the game. I don't actually have a problem with this, some people love this stuff and it's not like they're being predatory or selling boosts.
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May 25, 2020 13:49
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Buller posted:Hades does it both ways. You meta progress through currency up to being super strong then unlock ways to handicap yourself. Its weird kinda but it does drag out the lifetime of the game. Hades starts doing it the bad way, and I couldn't be hosed waiting to see if that changed later because it's a poo poo game with bad controls.
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May 25, 2020 14:10
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Buller posted:I thought the entire roguelite genre WAS meta progression? or hell, Spelunky, which has extremely minor metaprogression that almost no one actually uses, and just so happens to be the best of the new wave RLs No Wave posted:Rogue Legacy is like Clicker Heroes with surprisingly fun 2D action gameplay. The tower of unlocks is the real goal of the game. I don't actually have a problem with this, some people love this stuff and it's not like they're being predatory or selling boosts. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 15:52
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Oh, the "t" from Buller wasn't a typo there, the wave of games that introduced metaprogression (and other changes from the classic RL formula) are often called "roguelites", because they're sorta like roguelikes but a little easier.
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May 25, 2020 15:56
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He's making a comment about roguelike vs roguelite. The secret is that anything that tags itself as 'roguelite' is just throwing that in as a buzzword and hoping to cash in on the bandwagon. Things come and go in big fashionable flavours. Ten years ago there where no X-com sequels in sight, and very poor knock-offs like Aftermath where notable just because there was nothing else. Then Firaxis rebooted their IP, it sold well (twice!), and all of a sudden there's squad-based tactical shooters all over the loving place. There's even a loving mario version of it, seriously?! I think it was Kyzrati who found a beautiful tweet on the internet, where one user was flaming another for not knowing what "roguelike" meant: it's a game where you grind to unlock stuff, duh! ...Which kinda shows how far and wide the word was misapplied, goddamn. Roguelites, indeed.
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May 25, 2020 16:07
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Played a whole bunch of Red Prison yesterday; I managed to finish the first dungeon with a dwarf warrior and explore the worldmap but I was out of food rations to rest and perished when I did a desperation dive into a place for food. Being able to buy supplies or go hunting/foraging would be handy. Gonna continue messing wit different classes and stuff.
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May 25, 2020 16:11
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Roguelḭ̶͚̦̘͂̔̋̀͌ゆ̶̰͚̦̘̗͂̔̋̀͌e
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May 25, 2020 16:12
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Jack Trades posted:Roguelḭ̶͚̦̘͂̔̋̀͌ゆ̶̰͚̦̘̗͂̔̋̀͌e
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May 25, 2020 16:17
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Guess who just vaporized his silver dragon armor in nethack through overenchanting it? *points to self* dis guy 
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May 25, 2020 16:31
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Serephina posted:Words about Heros of Hammerwatch So I actually appreciate you trusted my words on it enough to give the game a shot! I'm sorry to hear you bounced off it so hard, though I understand that not everyone likes super grindy games that it turned out to be. I'll admit my first time through the game was actually co-op multiplayer with a friend where we valiantly struggled through each level (with release Archives no less *shudder*) till we finally slew the dragon. And maybe I played a bit aside from him to build up our town so he didn't have to do that grind. I did mention that unfortunately the grind is very long and the game starts slow in my previous post and that was one the main weaknesses of the game, the other weakness being the really silly/fun builds kind of only start to bloom lategame/new game+ and really detracts from some of the fun things you can pull off with the game (self immolation builds, setting yourself on fire is more useful than bad!) If you do ever want to give it another shot, I'd say do it with a friend or goon so you can both laugh at absurd poo poo that happens (it does) and use the multiplayer death linking mechanic to roll forward through some of the enemies and traps the game starts to through at you. The other thing is while dungeon shops help, it can be more useful to just shove your gold down every elevator you can find to help build up for the next run. And for what it's worth the Ore is a very clear metaprogression currency that you 95% never spend in a run, with the other 5% being tossed into magic furnaces once you've unlocked the anvil and start getting to the point of build manipulation in lategame.
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May 25, 2020 16:32
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Is there actually a way to play multiplayer by inviting your friends in Monster Train?
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May 25, 2020 16:45
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DNE posted:Oh, the "t" from Buller wasn't a typo there, the wave of games that introduced metaprogression (and other changes from the classic RL formula) are often called "roguelites", because they're sorta like roguelikes but a little easier. I also basically believe the roguelike v roguelite semantics war is thoroughly lost and the vast majority of people who play these games just call them all roguelikes
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May 25, 2020 16:45
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