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The cosmic eternal cycle of Total Warhammer: either the dwarfs consume everything and everyone hates it, or the greenskins consume everything and everyone hates it.
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May 26, 2020 04:36
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:43 |
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Gonkish posted:Ok, seriously, gently caress Grimgor with a red hot poker. New campaign with Imrik. Turn 44. FORTY-loving-FOUR. He comes at me with not one, not two, not three, but FOUR loving STACKS, unprompted (we didn't even have contact at this point), and, oh hey, look, THEY'VE ALL GOT loving 8+ BLACK ORCS IN THEM. I'm trying desperately to cobble together an economy after finally beating the poo poo out of Snikch, meanwhile Grimgor has confederated the entirety of the Badlands and poo poo out of enough black orc spam stacks to overrun my almost full stack of tier 1 units that I can barely afford. I'd recommend the Unit Caps for All mod. That should put a big damper on his Black Orc spam if its gotten to such ridiculous levels.
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May 26, 2020 04:40
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i enjoy that mod, spruces things up a bit
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May 26, 2020 04:46
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Gonkish posted:Ok, seriously, gently caress Grimgor with a red hot poker.
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May 26, 2020 04:49
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my grimgor campaign has devolved into survival horror. I had ambitions of charging through backfire pass with a waaaaagh at my back until I realized how far east the map goes and just how many loving skaven there were. i was thrilled to be recruiting rank 9 black Orcs. then grimgor got ambushed by six thousand rats deep in skaven territory. he and his waaagh stack "won" the battle, with grimgor, his wife Stinky, and their feral hydra dog back to back killing rats for ten minutes long after the rest of the army had routed. I had to disband the rest of the waagh stack to speed grimgors hasty return back. I stupidly declared my waaaaagh on the eshin headquarters. I'll never see it. i killed three stacks of skaven in that battle and there are three more approaching black crag and yet more rampaging around iron rock, with the deathmaster himself headed north besides. I wanted to be the bad guy. Instead, black crag is the secret shield of civilization. Grimgor loving iron hide is the only thing standing between the citizens of the empire and a never ending vermintide. funny old world
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May 26, 2020 04:56
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queeb posted:i enjoy that mod, spruces things up a bit Table Top Unit Caps also exists if you'd prefer to balance things on a per army basis. And while the guy behind it has some questionable choices, it's relatively easy to edit the point costs yourself for your own taste.
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May 26, 2020 05:05
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CharlesThunder posted:I wanted to be the bad guy. Instead, black crag is the secret shield of civilization. Grimgor loving iron hide is the only thing standing between the citizens of the empire and a never ending vermintide. funny old world Teclis sends everyone a beautifully penned email declaring he masterminded the entire thing.
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May 26, 2020 05:21
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Does editing tabletop caps require messing with the mod tools etc? Its an awesome mod tho, good recommendation.
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May 26, 2020 05:22
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Wish there was like a Mod Config Menu pre-set for Table Top Unit Caps, the current ones are way too loving harsh for Empire. 2 Special Points for Reiksguard, Greatswords, Great Cannons, Mortars, and 3 for Demigryph Knights when an army can only take up to 10 Special Points worth of them? Good god.
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May 26, 2020 05:26
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Dandywalken posted:Does editing tabletop caps require messing with the mod tools etc? Should be relatively simple using RPFM, IIRC.
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May 26, 2020 05:38
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The PFM is basically just editing excel sheets, the hardest part is figuring out what tables you need to edit. When starting from a mod that will likely only have like 5-10 tables, it's pretty easy.
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May 26, 2020 06:04
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Yeah you just need PFM to open it up, the table with prices is really clearly delineated. No idea how it works or how to say raise the cap of special or rare points, but changing cost is just adjusting the number. The specific table is export_helpers_tt_groups.lua
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May 26, 2020 06:13
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JBP posted:Teclis sends everyone a beautifully penned email declaring he masterminded the entire thing. RE: How Do You Ignorant Plebs Like Those Apples? From: TyrionSaysConfederateOrI'llEradicate@DonutCommunications.com To: LordOfLustriaScalies@GreatPlan.com --- nerd lol Neuronyx fucked around with this message at 06:19 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 06:14
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ungrim's "new" start got a lot more spicy vc got dunked on by ungrim, the two electors and two skaven so vlad just took it all over and started killing everyone one at a time I can't get in there to deal with it because vampire corruption h u r t s and 20 province grimgor is at my border via confederation on turn 25 spicy
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May 26, 2020 06:22
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Dandywalken posted:I'd recommend the Unit Caps for All mod. That should put a big damper on his Black Orc spam if its gotten to such ridiculous levels. I might have to do that. The Black Orc spam is so real that it's terrifying. I don't even hate the idea of it, really, it's more that the AI ignores everything else, and all the other AI factions ignore the tunnel-visioned Greenskins. I had Kroq'gar allied, he was at war with the Orcs, he marched through my lands with a stack or two... and then through all of Grimgor's territory... and dicked over Mannfred, completely unmolested by Grimgor (who kept throwing stacks at me). Like WHAT? The AI completely ignored Kroq'gar, Kroq'gar completely ignored Grimgor's endless black orc doomstacks, and he waltzed to Sylvania to punch Mannfred in the dick? While the much closer Grimgor is so hyper focused on me that he probably doesn't have any other armies doing anything else? That's messed up. That's really the crux of the issue, which is why I tried the "AI doesn't focus the player" mod, which did nothing. 
Gonkish fucked around with this message at 06:39 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 06:34
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I’m really enjoying Grom playthrough on vortex. I never do vortex, but decided to because I wanted a shorter game with a bigger ulthuan. I’ve unfortunately ran into an annoying bug mid way through my campaign. I get a notification that the merchant hag has spawned, but she doesn’t appear on the map no matter which city she spawns near. I’ve only had updated mods enabled before this. I’ve tried disabling them one by one, disabling them all (ensuring my main menu screen shows no mods build), loading multiple turns before, and even reinstalling my game. Anyone else have this problem with the merchant Hag?
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May 26, 2020 06:40
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Gonkish posted:I might have to do that. The Black Orc spam is so real that it's terrifying. That's so loving dumb I'm actually pretty mad for you too! Like, okay the AI isn't the greatest, but 'common sense' actually seems like a thing it knows sometimes. Common sense says, gently caress up the orcs, they're RIGHT there. And for the AI to just... not, sounds baffling to me. Sorry you had that happen man.   
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May 26, 2020 06:49
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Neuronyx posted:That's so loving dumb I'm actually pretty mad for you too! Like, okay the AI isn't the greatest, but 'common sense' actually seems like a thing it knows sometimes. Common sense says, gently caress up the orcs, they're RIGHT there. And for the AI to just... not, sounds baffling to me. Sorry you had that happen man. I've never actually seen it this obvious and bad before. It was always there, of course, but this is Grimgor pooping out stack after stack and sending them directly at me while everyone else ignores the likely unprotected Badlands. It's just so weird.
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May 26, 2020 06:53
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Table top caps currently has trolls as 1 blue while stone trolls and river trolls are 2 blue and oh man am I going troll crazy here.
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May 26, 2020 06:53
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Gonkish posted:I might have to do that. The Black Orc spam is so real that it's terrifying. Outta curiosity did you try herding Kroq'gar with War coordination?
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May 26, 2020 06:55
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CharlesThunder posted:I wanted to be the bad guy. Instead, black crag is the secret shield of civilization. Grimgor loving iron hide is the only thing standing between the citizens of the empire and a never ending vermintide. funny old world This had me laughing. I played a Dwarf campaign where I was struggling against orcs, then when I got through them I thought I was hot poo poo and started pushing east. I had no idea what Skaven horrors were in store for me.
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May 26, 2020 07:01
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Truecon420 posted:I’m really enjoying Grom playthrough on vortex. I never do vortex, but decided to because I wanted a shorter game with a bigger ulthuan. I’ve unfortunately ran into an annoying bug mid way through my campaign. I've seen this once or twice (using Tier 4 minor capitals, a skill point mod, and a mod to turn off hostile agent actions). It's annoying, but it seems rare; most of the time, the hag appears normally.
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May 26, 2020 07:01
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I started playing empire. Spent $2k on helping defend nordland. Did a great maneuver to get behind the attackers, so the AI opened the gates, let in a mammoth and a bunch of loving dudes and then I couldn't walk back to the control point in time. Enemies of the empire it seems!
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May 26, 2020 07:09
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Speaking of AI in game like this, coming from a bare minimum of coding experience, is it just like a giant bundle of if>then routines or is it something more sophisticated?
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May 26, 2020 07:12
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Onmi posted:Outta curiosity did you try herding Kroq'gar with War coordination? Yep. I called it on Karak Azul (which is where the stacks were coming from, so I was trying to get him to fight Grimgor). He acknowledged it (I got the popup message). Then he marched his rear end to Sylvania to punch Mannfred. At one point he marched an army directly through and right past Black Orc Doomstacks #108292 and #108293. They waved to each other and each went on their merry way. It's the most ridiculous "AI hates player" example I've ever seen in this game.
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May 26, 2020 07:42
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smug jeebus posted:Speaking of AI in game like this, coming from a bare minimum of coding experience, is it just like a giant bundle of if>then routines or is it something more sophisticated?
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May 26, 2020 07:44
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Krazyface posted:I've seen this once or twice (using Tier 4 minor capitals, a skill point mod, and a mod to turn off hostile agent actions). It's annoying, but it seems rare; most of the time, the hag appears normally. Word, thanks. Will the merchant hag respawn at all if not used? I don’t know if she normally goes away if you don’t interact with her for some amount of turns. Is that how it works?
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May 26, 2020 07:47
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Some AI improvement would just be really nice in general, like them not just nearly always ignoring anything they don't have incredibly favored battle odds against. Like seriously, in this campaign I had a Reikland stack (who I was not at war with), quick march through three regions that were all walled, over several turns, before sitting next to an unwalled settlement literally in the middle of my empire (The Moot, incidentally). THEN they war dec'd me and immediately sacked and captured it. Meanwhile the two other stacks that moved in from the same direction just started raiding the second region in and did nothing else, because they looked at the scary walled settlements around there and just refused to attack.
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May 26, 2020 07:58
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Gonkish posted:Yep. I called it on Karak Azul (which is where the stacks were coming from, so I was trying to get him to fight Grimgor). He acknowledged it (I got the popup message). I believe there are mods that, if not force the AI to follow your commands, like... demands
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May 26, 2020 08:18
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Lord Koth posted:Some AI improvement would just be really nice in general, like them not just nearly always ignoring anything they don't have incredibly favored battle odds against. Like seriously, in this campaign I had a Reikland stack (who I was not at war with), quick march through three regions that were all walled, over several turns, before sitting next to an unwalled settlement literally in the middle of my empire (The Moot, incidentally). THEN they war dec'd me and immediately sacked and captured it. Meanwhile the two other stacks that moved in from the same direction just started raiding the second region in and did nothing else, because they looked at the scary walled settlements around there and just refused to attack. I mean, I’d waltz into neutral territory to a nice unwalled to avoid doing a tough siege. Would it be making the AI smarter or dumber to get it to instead suicide stacks into your strongest settlements?
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May 26, 2020 09:04
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smug jeebus posted:Speaking of AI in game like this, coming from a bare minimum of coding experience, is it just like a giant bundle of if>then routines or is it something more sophisticated? no. well, kind of no, because most code could be reduced to a giant horrible if>then block but that would be hell to actually do anything with instead its probably using stuff like minmax trees and monte carlo style searching. which basicially means, instead of trying to find the best option with a multitude of if/then statements, it looks at its valid actions (probably not literally every single possible thing it can do but probably choosing between various build orders and strategic methods for choosing where to put its armies), and then it assigns the end state a score, trying to maximize it (max). then it runs the same routine for opposing factions (or at least, what it knows of them, ie it wont know about ambush armies) to see what they can do, and it assumes its opponent will pick the option that puts the AI force in the worst position (min). it repeats this for as many times as its "depth" will allow it to search down the trees. it gets more complex since to know what the actual min is, it has to look at its own possible moves to maximize it and so on and so forth so the search tree can get very busy with a lot of branches so you generally have pruning methods like alpha/beta (which is just a way to cut out entire branches of the tree based on the max/min instead of searching deeper on them); in a game as big as total war you would still get very slow turns due to the sheer amount of options so what instead is done is a shotgun approach: the AI selects a subset of random actions to test instead of trying them all, and by assessing how the results shake out, you can get an idea of the optimal course of action (monte carlo). this is generally how chess AI works, kind of. And even stuff like pathfinding with A* is essentially a scoring search tree. And they can be very, very powerful; you're never going to beat stockfish. There are some big weaknesses here, of course; unpredictability can gently caress it up since it can be hard to put a score on things like "1% chance for total victory but 99% for disaster"; handling it poorly can result in a very risk averse AI or, conversely, an utterly braindead idiot one that stumbles into repeat disasters. Similarly, handling unknowns is very difficult, because that requires things like "having an actual memory"; this also results in a big pain when trying to get the AI to follow thru complex plans or coordinate multiple things (which tend to be solved by having a higher level AI that chooses strategic plans and the like and lower level ones that handle the details of execution, but the problem of "making sure the AI uses boats, and protects its boats, and follow thru to complete a naval invasion" has been long a huge pain in the rear end to solve). And while search trees are very strong, you do surrender a deal of fine tuned control, since to get certain behavior you have to gently caress around with the score which can result in very abnormal behavior. It can also just be a pain in the rear end when it does things very optimal, like moving its armies 1 pixel away from your armies' max move range. It likely uses a similar sort of thing on the battlefield AI, which results in the weaknesses of such things becoming very apparent. If you had say, infinite time, you could use a very simple search tree to get completely perfect play, maybe, but because instead of infinite time, you have like, a couple miliseconds each frame, you have to use abstractions. That means a lot of herustics, which are... kind of if/then statements? More bite sized. Like if it has a RANGED_INFANTRY unit, it will look at where your army is, then look at where it wants its MELEE_INFANTRY to be, then draws a line from your army to its melee infantry, then draws it a bit further and says "this is where my ranged bois ought to be", which results in the ranged stuff being behind its melee line! But then if you flank it has to know that you're flanking, probably by using that little line to determine when you have stuff that's way off that line but also past its melee position, then it will use something tagged as an INTERCEPTOR or some such to put it in the way. Maybe. There's still likely scoring going on here, like if it decides your flankers would do worse against its ranged infantry than its interceptor, or if its interceptor would do better intercepting something else, it'll do that instead. That would be done with search trees. But obviously the problem is that coordination remains extremely difficult, and carrying out larger clever plans like "flank thru the trees" or "wait until the lines clash to use the wind of death" require setting up those routines, finding ways to score them intelligently, having some way to handle when situations change, and that is doable, but takes a lot of time, and its hard to do, and the results are likely to remain pretty poo poo because you're trying to get a thing with no capability for learning, no memory, no concept of space or time or chance or any of that, to do things that make sense.
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May 26, 2020 09:44
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having wrote some dumb ai poo poo using search trees i will tell you when it works tho, it is like magic, like "oh man look the melee guy got in the way of my own melee guy to protect their shooty boy" when I never actually specifically coded any of that into its decisions. It just looks at the actions, scores them, and then whoa its like its deep blue'ing all over the loving place!!! it was also a turn based little game and the AI took five full minutes to move three guys using that search tree but let me tell you, it was pretty okay at doing it!!! e: like the AI is likely largely the same since Rome 2; flying units would be handled by just adding some new herustics to cope with their existence, but you don't have to change all the other ones you've made, since it'll poop out a score that now notes that if they flying units hit the back line Bad Things Will Happen so all the code about shooty boys and stabby lads doesn't actually have to know or care ever about the fact things can be overhead or not. This is a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot, lot, lot, lot more fun and convenient to code than if>then statements when you have a large variety of choices and options or poo poo and you don't want to care about each and every one when writing your stuff. But setting it up can take a lot longer and it can sometimes be way too roundabout to deal with when its something like, the functional equivalent of a goomba. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 09:51 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 09:46
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durr me like elf
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May 26, 2020 09:48
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I enjoy the juxtaposition of the last two posts.
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May 26, 2020 10:08
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Am I the only one with problems with the army stance and province commandments popup this patch. It disappears to fast before I can select a new stance/commandment
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May 26, 2020 10:41
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vuk83 posted:Am I the only one with problems with the army stance and province commandments popup this patch. It disappears to fast before I can select a new stance/commandment I've had a few issues with it. Some times it is because of a game slow down due to god rays and other times it just doesn't respect that I opened the stance slider. It always is amazing to see the weird things that break in game after DLC like hitting waaagh just crashes some times.
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May 26, 2020 11:14
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CharlesThunder posted:my grimgor campaign has devolved into survival horror. I had ambitions of charging through backfire pass with a waaaaagh at my back until I realized how far east the map goes and just how many loving skaven there were. i was thrilled to be recruiting rank 9 black Orcs. then grimgor got ambushed by six thousand rats deep in skaven territory. he and his waaagh stack "won" the battle, with grimgor, his wife Stinky, and their feral hydra dog back to back killing rats for ten minutes long after the rest of the army had routed. It's very lore appropriate since Grimgor spent a long time murdering rats just for fun
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May 26, 2020 11:22
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Zzulu posted:It's very lore appropriate since Grimgor spent a long time murdering rats just for fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saY10AWXLIY
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May 26, 2020 11:24
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~rats rats rats~
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May 26, 2020 12:08
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Can Imrik trade with the main ocean if I avoid taking Shattered Cove for long enough to make a territory snake up to Barak Varr or is he locked to the bad trade lake automatically?
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May 26, 2020 13:00
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