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The transporter should enable immortality. Oxidative stress? Telomere shortening? Fuckin' wrinkles? Just take that stuff out! Add in some carbon fiber reinforcement and teflon joint pads while you're at it! You want some duranium weave around the ribcage or maybe 20% more muscle mass? How about we just enlarge your long bones and moves some tendons around to give you a lot more mechanical advantage? There's a science fiction book where a character who has been away from civilization and aging for decades goes through a transporter and the computer is like "none of this is right, tooth decay??? wtf" and he comes out of the transporter 60 years younger and in perfect health. Well perfect health for them, better than perfect health for a modern human. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 18:08 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 18:06
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Scotty survived what, 75 years in a transporter?
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May 27, 2020 18:14
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FlamingLiberal posted:Scotty survived what, 75 years in a transporter? Canonically, Scotty is capable of performing miracles. 
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May 27, 2020 19:29
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Ironically, fantasy tends to have a better grasp on why immortality is bad than silci fi does most of the time. To rephrase the Elf problem, consider: if you literally never had to worry empty running out of time to do things, do you really think you would ever get anything done again?
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May 27, 2020 19:35
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Ironically, fantasy tends to have a better grasp on why immortality is bad than silci fi does most of the time. To rephrase the Elf problem, consider: if you literally never had to worry empty running out of time to do things, do you really think you would ever get anything done again? That's tricky, because a lot of what we do is for prestige, which is a means of standing out and hopefully achieving a legacy which outlasts our mortal lifetimes. If we could make our wills felt in-person as opposed to memetically, it may seem as if many of our endeavors are fruitless and acted out for the sake of a moot problem.
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May 27, 2020 19:49
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Ironically, fantasy tends to have a better grasp on why immortality is bad than silci fi does most of the time. To rephrase the Elf problem, consider: if you literally never had to worry empty running out of time to do things, do you really think you would ever get anything done again? Even if you're immortal, that doesn't mean everything else is too. Say you want to see a total solar eclipse. Those will stop happening in about half a billion years, so don't wait TOO long.
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May 27, 2020 19:58
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You would probably either go insane from an inability to remember things or literally die from boredom.
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May 27, 2020 20:19
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Just lol if you are literally a Highlander and you can't think of something fun to keep you occupied
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May 27, 2020 20:22
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Cellular Ennui is real. Which is why the Cellular regeneration and Entertainment Chamber is actually the real secret to immortality.
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May 27, 2020 20:24
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There's a few stories/writers that go into the knowledge that immortality doesn't mean you won't die, it just means that your death will inevitably be violent in some way. You are denied the 'deathbed surrounded by family' experience and you have to live life knowing it.
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May 27, 2020 20:26
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I'm pretty sure that even if you were literally immortal you would still be worried you'll die anyway. I'm definitely not gonna die in the next 10 seconds, but that doesn't mean I'm not constantly worried that, somehow, I will Like, you wouldn't just trust whatever process made you immortal, you'd worry that eventually somehow it would stop working. So I think you'd still do stuff. Maybe after a thousand or a million years you'd loosen up, but the entire concept of consciousness is tied to a worry or knowledge that it will stop.
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May 27, 2020 20:26
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Peachfart posted:You would probably either go insane from an inability to remember things or literally die from boredom. I'd hope for some device that records everything that I see, to the extent that other people don't find that creepy, and try to manage the memories of my personal life like Ariam from DIS. One problem with that is that such a commercial product inherently has problems involving crowd-sourced privacy violation, like Amazon's Ring device but worse because it's on people's faces in crowds. There's Google Glass, which has led to the term "Glasshole", but that costs like $1,500 and I'm not sure it'd be effective. I'd wear such a device at home if I were around people who were okay with it galenanorth fucked around with this message at 20:33 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 20:27
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galenanorth posted:I'd hope for some device that records everything that I see, to the extent that other people don't find that creepy, and try to manage the memories of my personal life like Ariam from DIS. One problem with that is that such a commercial product inherently has problems involving crowd-sourced privacy violation, like Amazon's Ring device but worse because it's on people's faces in crowds. I'd wear it at home if I were around people who were okay with it
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May 27, 2020 20:30
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Tighclops posted:Just lol if you are literally a Highlander and you can't think of something fun to keep you occupied I will never stop laughing that the big reveal of once you are the last immortal your reward is....the ability to have a kid
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May 27, 2020 20:40
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xerxus posted:Cellular Ennui is real. It worked for Weyoun 7 and it can work for you!
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May 27, 2020 20:41
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I am very excited to one day upload my consciousness into a series of massive supercomputers located deep inside the Moon.
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May 27, 2020 20:49
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Alchenar posted:There's a few stories/writers that go into the knowledge that immortality doesn't mean you won't die, it just means that your death will inevitably be violent in some way. You are denied the 'deathbed surrounded by family' experience and you have to live life knowing it. Do most people really get that experience though?
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May 27, 2020 20:57
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The biggest problem I see with functional immortality is that every risk is much bigger Crossing the street when you're thirty now is risking maybe 70 years, but it's a tiny, tiny risk and we psychologically manage it easily. If you're effectively immortal, even the smallest likelihood outcome might be outweighed by the near-infinite consequences We might become cripplingly risk-averse Who knows if human minds can even grasp arbitrarily long lives though, even if we're raised to expect them The Bloop fucked around with this message at 21:00 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 20:58
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The Bloop posted:The biggest problem I see with functional immortality is that every risk is much bigger Obviously we'll live in vats and connect our minds to robots we control in the outside world like in the hit film "Surrogates" starring Bruce Willis.
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May 27, 2020 21:01
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AI-agumentation is way more likely to happen and is infinitely more interesting. As soon as you can jam a new RAM chip equivalent into your brain and have a neural network perform menial thinking tasks and have all the internet's information a picosecond away you stop thinking at human speeds. An hour is functionally an eternity if you can do a lifetime's worth of thinking in that span. And if that's the case, then you no longer think or act like a human traditionally would and become post-human.
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May 27, 2020 21:06
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Just lol if you ever agree to put malware in your head.
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May 27, 2020 21:25
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Your grandkids are going to tease you relentlessly for that position.
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May 27, 2020 21:28
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feedmyleg posted:AI-agumentation is way more likely to happen and is infinitely more interesting. As soon as you can jam a new RAM chip equivalent into your brain and have a neural network perform menial thinking tasks and have all the internet's information a picosecond away you stop thinking at human speeds. An hour is functionally an eternity if you can do a lifetime's worth of thinking in that span. And if that's the case, then you no longer think or act like a human traditionally would and become post-human. Then I can leave my pedestrian thinking to the machine and focus my mind on higher pursuits. *Spends a year thinking about that episode where Data dated a sad lady*
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May 27, 2020 21:32
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Old video, but it's silly how much better actual holographic consoles would have been if the technology had just been an extension of what was presented in previous Star Treks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsD3q5JLid8
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May 27, 2020 22:16
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AndyElusive posted:Old video, but it's silly how much better actual holographic consoles would have been if the technology had just been an extension of what was presented in previous Star Treks. but what if there's a loss of power to the bridge? Holodecks eat up a huge amount of power and are the first thing to be shut off if there's an issue. literally any crisis where they shut them off to get more power would be unsolvable. hes right about how lazy and bad holographic displays look, but "what if the ship was controlled by holograms" is wild
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May 27, 2020 23:07
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Jewel Repetition posted:How would we no longer be meaningfully human just because we didn't age? Also for the record it's impossible to live forever in the literal sense so I'm assuming when we say forever here we just mean indefinitely or really long time The Good Place? It's the afterlife, they can absolutely exist forever in the literal sense. They can do this because they are not, in any sense, biological creatures anymore. They don't have needs they have to fulfill for their existence, or threats that could unmake them, they just exist. Every aspect of their self is also able to be edited and tweaked at whim, from sensation to memory to emotion. They don't have to be sad, or bored, or anxious, or any of the emotional conditions that would cause one to be discontent if they don't want to. But they have to end because endings to give their existence meaning? They are already dead, who gives a poo poo about that? Now obviously the show is a message to actual, living people, and thus it's fine. As a narrative it's sketch though. It's like the ultimate expression of sour grapes, "I bet perfect immortality wouldn't even be that great anyway".
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May 27, 2020 23:08
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Mulva posted:The Good Place? It's the afterlife, they can absolutely exist forever in the literal sense. They can do this because they are not, in any sense, biological creatures anymore. They don't have needs they have to fulfill for their existence, or threats that could unmake them, they just exist. Every aspect of their self is also able to be edited and tweaked at whim, from sensation to memory to emotion. They don't have to be sad, or bored, or anxious, or any of the emotional conditions that would cause one to be discontent if they don't want to. But they have to end because endings to give their existence meaning? They are already dead, who gives a poo poo about that? Now obviously the show is a message to actual, living people, and thus it's fine. As a narrative it's sketch though. 100% agree they had a great finale but their logic doesn't sit right
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May 27, 2020 23:12
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Mulva posted:The Good Place? It's the afterlife, they can absolutely exist forever in the literal sense. They can do this because they are not, in any sense, biological creatures anymore. They don't have needs they have to fulfill for their existence, or threats that could unmake them, they just exist. Every aspect of their self is also able to be edited and tweaked at whim, from sensation to memory to emotion. They don't have to be sad, or bored, or anxious, or any of the emotional conditions that would cause one to be discontent if they don't want to. But they have to end because endings to give their existence meaning? They are already dead, who gives a poo poo about that? Now obviously the show is a message to actual, living people, and thus it's fine. As a narrative it's sketch though. ok but Snow Cone Capone posted:let's say, for example, that the Cellular Regeneration and Entertainment Chamber from the DS9 episode In The Cards had actually worked. You're extending the lifespan of your own cells, or whatever. I think in a situation like that you'd still be meaningfully human by almost any definition (except I guess the ones who say humanity is defined by the ever-present specter of death
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May 27, 2020 23:14
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Mulva posted:The Good Place? It's the afterlife, they can absolutely exist forever in the literal sense. They can do this because they are not, in any sense, biological creatures anymore. They don't have needs they have to fulfill for their existence, or threats that could unmake them, they just exist. Every aspect of their self is also able to be edited and tweaked at whim, from sensation to memory to emotion. They don't have to be sad, or bored, or anxious, or any of the emotional conditions that would cause one to be discontent if they don't want to. But they have to end because endings to give their existence meaning? They are already dead, who gives a poo poo about that? Now obviously the show is a message to actual, living people, and thus it's fine. As a narrative it's sketch though. There was zero evidence ever on that show that their emotional states could be changed on a whim That's actually a central theme of the entire premise They can try to cheer themselves up with cool poo poo and demons can gently caress with them using penis flatteners or frozen yogurt, but if they could just push the "suffer" button there wouldn't have been a show at all
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May 27, 2020 23:15
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Thanks for spoiling the Good Place for me before the last season hits Netflix 
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May 28, 2020 02:26
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:but I think Voyager established that when the holodecks lose power the environments just sort of freeze because half of it is rearranged actual matter via transporter technology. Stuff like control surfaces would be holograms projected inside of forcefields like holodeck characters, weapons fire, etc. Chairs and railings would just remain as they are in the event of a power loss while everything else would just vanish why am I thinking about this
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May 28, 2020 03:26
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Wow I am catching up on The Orville since I canceled Hulu again and they just turned in a really good holodeck episode. Like really good. Also the Klingon took up smoking. Oh and also it included the line, "this is just like the sex lagoon!" And come to think of it it's kind of a riff on a Janeway line. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 03:36 on May 28, 2020 |
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May 28, 2020 03:30
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There's sex in that nebula
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May 28, 2020 03:45
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Arglebargle III posted:Wow I am catching up on The Orville since I canceled Hulu again and they just turned in a really good holodeck episode. Like really good. Also the Klingon took up smoking. "five hundred cigarettes"
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May 28, 2020 06:08
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"It is as if I've been standing my whole life, and just sat down."
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May 28, 2020 06:40
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Spock's Pon Farr in TOS was 2267, which means the preceding one was 2260. Disco Season 2 ended in 2258. I'm looking forward to Hot Spock getting it on in Strange New Worlds.
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May 28, 2020 07:30
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Mulva posted:But they have to end because endings to give their existence meaning? precision posted:Thanks for spoiling the Good Place for me before the last season hits Netflix
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May 28, 2020 10:15
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AndyElusive posted:Old video, but it's silly how much better actual holographic consoles would have been if the technology had just been an extension of what was presented in previous Star Treks. That video is stupid, he spends most of it arguing how it doesn't make sense since Star Trek has much better holographic tech, but completely ignores that Picard 100% acknowledges that, to the extent that this random smugglers ship has holodecks as quarters and an entire holographic crew. The visual style of those floating holograms is cliched since it's in so much SciFi now, but it's clearly a choice to use them, not a limitation of the tech. He rails against a lack of feedback as people wave their hands in the air, but I never thought that to be the case. We already know that Federation tech can give holograms physical feedback, I already assumed that all those holographic buttons and dials were giving resistance and tactile feedback. They could even be supporting the users wrists. The solution he proposes is skeuomorphic UI no different than the way early iPhones made their note app look like physical paper, before that started looking cheesy and outdated.
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May 28, 2020 10:36
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Senor Tron posted:That video is stupid, he spends most of it arguing how it doesn't make sense since Star Trek has much better holographic tech, but completely ignores that Picard 100% acknowledges that, to the extent that this random smugglers ship has holodecks as quarters and an entire holographic crew. If they still have the indistinguishable-from-physical-objects TNG/VOY style holographics then why do they use the flickery lovely looking kind for all their UI? The guy's solution is inelegant and this is nitpicking for sure but I think it further illustrates that the creators of Picard just copy things they see from other sources without really thinking about their application in the world of Star Trek
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May 28, 2020 11:01
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The Bloop posted:There was zero evidence ever on that show that their emotional states could be changed on a whim Remember the like 15 novelty items that were 'Tastes like" jokes that aren't an actual flavor? Bits where Elanor chooses to be drunk because she's depressed and then *whoosh*, better when she wants to be? The whole swearing thing? Every aspect of what they are can be whatever is needed at any moment [Because it's a comedy]. quote:That's actually a central theme of the entire premise The actual premise is flawed people examine the rules by which we try and live a meaningful life from the perspective of the afterlife. As a show talking to living people about their actual lives, totally fine. As an examination of post-human life? It doesn't really work. Which is fine, up until their nature as spooky ghosts IS the plot. It's still a comedy, and it's not about that, so they don't have to get it 100% straight. quote:They can try to cheer themselves up with cool poo poo and demons can gently caress with them using penis flatteners or frozen yogurt, but if they could just push the "suffer" button there wouldn't have been a show at all They flatten penises because it makes them happy. Even when they are taught much more complex ways to emotionally torture people, they still want to flatten penises. Because it's a comedy. Tiggum posted:No matter how much you like ice-cream, you're going to reach the point where you just don't want to eat it any more. Why? You could just forget you've ever eaten ice cream. Every moment of your existence will be the first time you discovered it. In a practical sense that's just as much a cessation of self as the alternative, and it's always been an option. There is no reason for the state of heaven to exist as an actual afterlife. It exists to make a statement about meaning in our lives, as living people. It runs into the issue of, say, mutants in the X-men. They want to use them as spectacles for big fights AND as minority stand ins, but it leads to situations where it's totally rational to not want to live next to the guy that has hosed up his powers and killed a lot of people in a way it's not rational to want to move away from the black couple next door. The means of delivery of the message is...not the greatest. Snow Cone Capone posted:OTOH, let's say, for example, that the Cellular Regeneration and Entertainment Chamber from the DS9 episode In The Cards had actually worked. You're extending the lifespan of your own cells, or whatever. I think in a situation like that you'd still be meaningfully human by almost any definition (except I guess the ones who say humanity is defined by the ever-present specter of death I mean you brought it up twice so I'll answer it with a sure? The things I'm talking about were neither biological creatures nor living in our finite universe. They aren't just "Us, but living a bit longer". The more comparative situation would be "Humanity is now Q".
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May 28, 2020 11:14
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