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Probably some writer really likes the Everfailure. Just like 40k had this Khaldor Draigo dude, that routinely did Primarch level stuff.
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May 27, 2020 18:39
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Zzulu posted:Greenskins should totally have got SQUIG ARTILLERY instead of generic artillery I'm choosing to believe the goblin on the right is poking a sharp stick into a massive ballsack.
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May 27, 2020 18:39
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Kobal2 posted:I'm choosing to believe the goblin on the right is poking a sharp stick into a massive ballsack.
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May 27, 2020 18:40
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Anyone else playing Imrik feel like the best course of action probably is to abandon your starting location and just go marching north and west? Eshin does not mess around and actually conquering their lands kind of feel like a trap, there's terrible terrain that causes attrition and makes movement terrible, you've got Skaven corruption to deal with and the settlements are all pretty far apart, it seems like it will take forever to conquer and be inconvenient to defend. Same with going for Khalida (who declared war on me), the Desolation of Nagash is a wasteland and ringed by mountains so I can't reach it easily. I really think the best idea is just to abandon it all and strike for the badlands. I've got my dragon princes, I've got Shackolot and my starting sun dragon, it's time to move on.
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May 27, 2020 18:41
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A question of who you hate more An elf dragon stack with a dragon lord or any dwarf
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May 27, 2020 18:43
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Chaos is super disappointing, on my Grimgor ME campaign they never even managed to make it down to me: got cleaned up somewhere off screen. So much for an apocolyptic endgame threat. Really wish CA would just bring back Realm Divide, obviously tweaked for the setting so you wouldn't have dumb poo poo like the Empire teaming up with Rats. It was the one and only compelling endgame crisis in a long, long time.
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May 27, 2020 18:43
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Anyone else find 40k chaos a lot more compelling than the fantasy versions? Chaos as a faction is really poo poo in WFB, but its everpresent nature and rot within the Empire is really cool to explore. It's the exact opposite of a genestealer cult, where you have absolutely no idea why anybody would join that, like a Cthulhu cult where the followers rejoice that they will be eaten first : life in the Empire for the average burgher, or the petty noble, or the rank peasant is pretty poo poo ; the state religion is oppressive and scary (even if not to the extent it is in 40k) and there's always some life-ending threat menacing to end it all, whether it's some orc rampage, noble vendetta or political machination, random inexplicable dwarf grudge, ratmen that Do. Not. Exist. and so on. So when the plague is in town or there's been an inexplicable rain of nuclear waste, what's wrong with joining the cult that says there's a cure, or there's no *need* for the cure because you can be loved even in decay and 'orrible mutation ? What's wrong with saying "yes" to the dark figure who promises you strength and glory and victory, or the vengeance your destitute and wronged family so clearly deserves ? Why not get a little magical edge over everyone, just a little one at just a little cost (for now) ? Why not just, like, gently caress a crab just to say you did ?
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May 27, 2020 19:00
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re: Chaos I feel like the key to making them better would be the further develop the "Chaos cultures" away from just being evil satanists, emphasize why the Chaos gods are worshipped in these areas and perhaps make them more antithetical to order and settled civilization than just evil. Focus on how the people who live in these, where the presence of the Gods (the real Gods as they see it) is so much more apparent in how it affects life and the land around them, view the world very differently than someone in the Empire does. I believe Norsca kind of touches on this in that they've sort of developed a culture based on Viking age Scandinavians taken up to 11 with a bit of extra mysticism and such courtesy of the Chaos gods. As a result they're much more interesting than Archaon and his boys, not necessarily sympathetic but there seems to be more to understand there at least. I also like how their culture worships the Chaos Gods under their own names rather than the generic universal names, I actually think it gives them a bit more ownership of it and agency. It's not necessarily the most canon of sources but the WFRP supplement on Chaos kind of develops it further, emphasizing them as being a very spiritual culture who see the world in a particular way.   And then the other Chaos people, the Kurgan the guys who make up the majority of the dudes in armor, and who are very scarcely developed in the fluff beyond having vaguely Turkic names and lookin like Mad Max savages, also kind of get this treatment in the supplement (though much shorter and less detailed)  I feel like if you further emphasized developing the "Chaos cultures" along these lines you could make Chaos in WFB much more interesting and understandable, abd still have a good reason for why they are a threat to the settled civilizations of the south without having them be just evil satanists who love spikes and skulls. In a way, having recently played Patholigc 2 it reminds me (vagueish story spoiler for that) of the relationship the Steppe people there have with the Living Earth as they see it, and how that ties into how they end up viewing and relating to the Plague that ravages the town. Kobal2 posted:Chaos as a faction is really poo poo in WFB, but its everpresent nature and rot within the Empire is really cool to explore. It's the exact opposite of a genestealer cult, where you have absolutely no idea why anybody would join that, like a Cthulhu cult where the followers rejoice that they will be eaten first : life in the Empire for the average burgher, or the petty noble, or the rank peasant is pretty poo poo ; the state religion is oppressive and scary (even if not to the extent it is in 40k) and there's always some life-ending threat menacing to end it all, whether it's some orc rampage, noble vendetta or political machination, random inexplicable dwarf grudge, ratmen that Do. Not. Exist. and so on. Oh, yeah the cults also make sense, somewhat dependent on how they are portrayed, but yeah. But it's kind of how they tie into the all-conquering horde where things fall apart and also how typically those hordes are so undeveloped as a culture in their world view and motivations that they aren't really compelling or interesting. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 19:03 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 19:01
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Shumagorath posted:Do the Chaos stacks continue spawning for the entire length of a Mortal Empires game? Not that I mind having something to do but I only just cleared out the last stack of the last wave when a new wave showed up. One of the patches that nerfed Chaos also changed how the waves happen, I believe first invasion is triggered by either x turn or player imperium level, whichever comes first. First you have the arrival of some WoC(and the puppets and slaves of chaos factions) armies but without any of the LLs, then once you hit the next imperial threshold or another 30-40 turns pass, the boss wave comes and you get that one in game cutscene when they show off the everchosen. If the mook wave is wiped out they will just respawn after a couple turns(including the sub factions), while when the final boss wave is all fully taken out then the invasion ends for good. With how nerfed they are then 8 times out of 10 the other AI factions will wipe Chaos out for you, so depending on which faction you play you can just ignore it all, which makes for a pretty dull end game event.
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May 27, 2020 19:07
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Haha it turns out Archaon hadn't even spawned in the wastes yet. It's turn 146 - place your bets on how long they last before Kislev rolls them?Randarkman posted:Anyone else playing Imrik feel like the best course of action probably is to abandon your starting location and just go marching north and west? Eshin does not mess around and actually conquering their lands kind of feel like a trap, there's terrible terrain that causes attrition and makes movement terrible, you've got Skaven corruption to deal with and the settlements are all pretty far apart, it seems like it will take forever to conquer and be inconvenient to defend. Same with going for Khalida (who declared war on me), the Desolation of Nagash is a wasteland and ringed by mountains so I can't reach it easily. I really think the best idea is just to abandon it all and strike for the badlands. I've got my dragon princes, I've got Shackolot and my starting sun dragon, it's time to move on. Sydin posted:Chaos is super disappointing, on my Grimgor ME campaign they never even managed to make it down to me: got cleaned up somewhere off screen. So much for an apocolyptic endgame threat. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 19:32 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 19:16
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how is skarsnik these days? he was my favourite in wh1 but i haven't played him since
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May 27, 2020 19:19
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juggalo baby coffin posted:how is skarsnik these days? he was my favourite in wh1 but i haven't played him since I can def recommend em since the rework. He's fun.
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May 27, 2020 19:22
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It's... really not that odd figuring out how Chaos cults can spread in human society, particularly in a world as messed up as the Old World. Scholars and mages pursuing forbidden knowledge, soldiers gradually getting more and more into the fighting, and debaucherous habits that run out of control can all lead in that direction. Like, in regards to the first point on the dangers of forbidden lore, it really can't be stressed enough that the worst and most infamous Tzeentchian cult in the Empire's history formed in the ANTI-CHAOS magic college that had a bunch of forbidden lore on those sorts of things. Like, some of you give this odd sense that you think most Chaos cultists just magically jump straight to that point, where it's usually a gradual slide. They're not out there on the street advertising "we're a doomsday cult" or whatever, they're advertising as just another high society club, or a student research union, or a warrior fraternity, or just a collection of disease victims helping each other out. And at anything remotely approaching the neophyte echelons, that's entirely waht they are - just with subtle suggestions to be initiated further. Add onto that the slight issue that the vast majority people in that society are not exactly going to be super versed in the dangers of Chaos (or think they're resistant/immune) until they're in so deep it probably doesn't matter any more.
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May 27, 2020 19:24
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juggalo baby coffin posted:how is skarsnik these days? he was my favourite in wh1 but i haven't played him since Legend of total war is doing a YouTube stream of him right now if you want a preview. Skarsnik is a loving blast right now
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May 27, 2020 19:45
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KingKapalone posted:Close to the end of the Vortex campaign as Tyrion for my first playthrough. What's a good setup to try next in Mortal Empires in a co-op game? One for me (probably one pretty different from Tyrion) and one for my friend who has only played non-WH TW games. Assume we would get the DLC needed. Re-asking this again from a few pages back.
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May 27, 2020 19:49
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a boardgame called chaos in the old world makes i p interesting all five (horned rat is included) chaos gods have armies, but only khorne and RATS really benefit from fighting, everyone else wants control over various resources that benefit them and only them unforntunately it's warham so fighting is kind of important, so chaos in this and 40k mostly fronts with "kill 'em all for kicks" khorne flakes
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May 27, 2020 19:52
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KingKapalone posted:Re-asking this again from a few pages back.
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May 27, 2020 19:54
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The problem with chaos is that they rarely give any insights into what life is actually like for a chaos follower. Most of what we get to see of chaos is when they are amassing apocalyptic hordes to Kill Everyone. So they just become this generic force of evil There should be cities in Norsca and in the chaos wastes dedicated to each god with their own themes and ways of life
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May 27, 2020 20:01
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Chaos in Warhammer 40k is cool because you can wildly different interpretations and diverse, entirely functional planet-spanning societies, but it also sucks because Chaos Space Marines will inevitably be the ones on top, and they’re pretty much all have the same story. WHFB chaos champions can usually have families and societies, and Age of Sigmar does even better with diverse societies with concerns other than being a world-ending horde. It’s kind of dumb that Chaos is supposed to be a universal force in both settings, but every race except humans and the occasional 40k footnote species operates on some unique wavelength that makes them incredibly resistant to it.
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May 27, 2020 20:17
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Zzulu posted:The problem with chaos is that they rarely give any insights into what life is actually like for a chaos follower. Most of what we get to see of chaos is when they are amassing apocalyptic hordes to Kill Everyone. So they just become this generic force of evil Cities in the traditional sense of the word aren't really a Norscan lore thing. Possibly long-term/permanent large tribal encampments in some cases, but those tend to have a somewhat different organization and connotation. And it's important to remember that not all Norscans are truly dedicated to the cause of one god or another either (or Undivided, for that matter). It's just that they tend not to care either, since they're effectively just the stereotypical barbarians on the fringe of one stripe or another in lore . As for the other... there ARE supposed to be cities dedicated to the various god deep within the wastes, it's just we never get anything past a brief mention of them in lore... with one exception. If I recall correctly, Warhammer Online did have an actual city available for the Chaos faction that was one of those. As for the life of cultists... for most it's little different from a normal life for one of whatever class of society they are or job they hold the vast majority of the time, so in general it isn't interesting to read about.
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May 27, 2020 20:18
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Also it bugs me that the gods of "chaos" each have an identical hierarchy of various, directly comparable daemons.
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May 27, 2020 20:20
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Holy poo poo, do not send a moon dragon to try to 1v1 one of those delf scourgerunner chariots. I thought the dragon might be able to get it done despite the chariot being anti large, but nope, got melted
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May 27, 2020 20:30
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KingKapalone posted:Re-asking this again from a few pages back. Are you trying to work together, or be assholes to one another? For the new guy, you probably want either Bretonnia or the Empire because both factions are human, and they both play similarly to "standard" TW gameplay from previous titles on the tactical side. Assuming you want to stick close to your buddy, I'd suggest something like Repanse plus your choice of Tiq'Taq'To or Aranessa Saltspite. TTT if you want to be more friendly, Aranessa if you'd rather pillage and burn while being a dick to the not-crusaders.
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May 27, 2020 20:31
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orangelex44 posted:Are you trying to work together, or be assholes to one another? We want to work together. He'll probably want to try something more flavorful than vanilla humans though (obviously he should just play whatever looks fun, but I could also pass along some fun recommendations). KingKapalone fucked around with this message at 20:48 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 20:42
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chaos cultists are kind of a pain to develop meaningfully in the same way the generic pokemon gym trainers are impossible to do that like sure you can give a dude some backstory about why they love ground type pokemon and have some kind of backstory to elucidate their motives but you will never overcome the staggering ineptitude behind the idea that dedicating yourself to an arbitrary and stupidly restrictive set of pokemon makes you an idiot that will forever get chumped by ten year olds with the instinct to use water on ground types repeatedtly, shattering the gym trainers entire world ideology built upon the idea that ground is best. dedicating yourself to a god that goes "yeah just kill everyone all the time, or die, thatd be cool too" or a big blue bird that literally calls himself the Betrayer, the Liar, the Grand Crankster of My Most Loyal Underlings, makes you fundamentally, a very shallow and dumb person, following very shallow and dumb cosmic forces. theyre very silly deities. i want there to be a chaos god of like, pottery, that just demands bigger pots and more brazen use of lacquer to the point entire cities are overwhelmed by clay golems covered in the most exquisite glazes. if only that it kind of highlights the completly arbitrary nature of these entities so people stop having to explain how actually theyre meant to represent some vague quasi philosophical concept
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May 27, 2020 20:58
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Tiler Kiwi posted:dedicating yourself to a god that goes "yeah just kill everyone all the time, or die, thatd be cool too" or a big blue bird that literally calls himself the Betrayer, the Liar, the Grand Crankster of My Most Loyal Underlings, makes you fundamentally, a very shallow and dumb person, following very shallow and dumb cosmic forces. theyre very silly deities. i want there to be a chaos god of like, pottery, that just demands bigger pots and more brazen use of lacquer to the point entire cities are overwhelmed by clay golems covered in the most exquisite glazes. if only that it kind of highlights the completly arbitrary nature of these entities so people stop having to explain how actually theyre meant to represent some vague quasi philosophical concept That's Hashut, Hashut does that. This is Chorfs.
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May 27, 2020 21:00
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chaos dorfs are good
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May 27, 2020 21:03
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A voter of the Big Blue Birds Betraying You Forever party: "I never thought the birds would betray me"
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May 27, 2020 21:04
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Zzulu posted:There should be cities in Norsca and in the chaos wastes dedicated to each god with their own themes and ways of life
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May 27, 2020 21:12
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Right but if its the far north in the "Chaos Wastes" how do cities exist there? Wouldnt it be too cold? And with that being the case, how are there so many of them coming from the Frozen North Wasteland just to try to burn the world down? Thats what always gets me.... like... how do they have the money for all that armor? Does their hatred/evilness keep them warm and fed? wizards
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May 27, 2020 21:16
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The chaos wastes are one of those "reality is extremely malleable here" dealies so the weather is extremely diverse, they get food from the various monsters and creatures that live there. Think the armour is either gifts from the gods in the case of the champs and such or traded from the Chaos Dwarves. Or you get it from the last chump who died/you killed.
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May 27, 2020 21:21
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I mean there's something up there. But mostly it's just names.  
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May 27, 2020 21:26
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I wish we'd get more empire/elf/dwarf expedition invasions into the Mysterious Chaos Wastes Surely the orcs would love to go there for tons of fighting as well
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May 27, 2020 21:28
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Wanna party at the Tower of Khrakk
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May 27, 2020 21:30
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Zzulu posted:I wish we'd get more empire/elf/dwarf expedition invasions into the Mysterious Chaos Wastes One of the most frustrating parts about the Chaos Book for WHFRP is that it's full of these wild places up in the far north and then all the rules are 'if you go here your character dies lol' and 'all the treasure or stuff here just kills you if you touch it lol idiot' so there's no reason to ever bother. It sucks.
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May 27, 2020 21:32
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 round 2 now with kislev daddy needs to save up 20k and give his babies perfect vigour
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May 27, 2020 21:35
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Night10194 posted:One of the most frustrating parts about the Chaos Book for WHFRP is that it's full of these wild places up in the far north and then all the rules are 'if you go here your character dies lol' and 'all the treasure or stuff here just kills you if you touch it lol idiot' so there's no reason to ever bother. You take that back. It has a random mutations table. You can get your blood replaced by mice.
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May 27, 2020 21:35
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Lord Koth posted:It's... really not that odd figuring out how Chaos cults can spread in human society, particularly in a world as messed up as the Old World. Scholars and mages pursuing forbidden knowledge, soldiers gradually getting more and more into the fighting, and debaucherous habits that run out of control can all lead in that direction. Like, in regards to the first point on the dangers of forbidden lore, it really can't be stressed enough that the worst and most infamous Tzeentchian cult in the Empire's history formed in the ANTI-CHAOS magic college that had a bunch of forbidden lore on those sorts of things. Oh yeah, absolutely. I remember having a LOT of fun during a WFB themed LARP/murder party, recruiting people from all walks of life into my slaaneshi murdercult. They would all end up getting sacrificed to summon a Keeper of Secrets in the evening's climax (to kill the orcs surrounding the castle, and also give me immortality as a sidegig) but they didn't have to *know* that. Meantime I was SURE I could help them further whatever puny plots they had going with my great influence and all of my good friends. We were a tight fraternity for mutual help you see - with a pet necromancer, to boot ! Lovely old man, bit of a lisp, really handy with poisons, would he be able to help you darling ? Sign here, and here, also here... this one has to be in blood I'm sorry just a tradition, funny story behind that... Dr Christmas posted:It’s kind of dumb that Chaos is supposed to be a universal force in both settings, but every race except humans and the occasional 40k footnote species operates on some unique wavelength that makes them incredibly resistant to it. I mean, elves and eldar both skullfucked their entire societies with a little help from Chaos.
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May 27, 2020 21:38
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Randarkman posted:You take that back. It has a random mutations table. You can get your blood replaced by mice. I've used and read the thing pretty thoroughly: It might have some good bits (rolling randomly got me a Chaos Lord who is a flying goddamn crystal robot that devours light) but the actual Chaos Wastes section just being a huge pile of 'lol you die' and 'never go here' sucks when otherwise a bunch of the locations seem pretty cool.
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May 27, 2020 21:38
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I mean I guess if your Ungrim you can head for a vacation in Kraka Drak if somehow things don't look grim down south?
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May 27, 2020 21:38
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