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PittTheElder posted:I agree with you, but on the other hand most of those weren't Spanish possessions, they were Hapsburg possessions, and the distinction is really important. Charles wasn't an all powerful monarch directing the activity of all these places, he was massively overworked and overcommitted, ironically because far too much authority was concentrated in him as a person. The fact that they were just royal possessions was the main reason why Charles had to be so ridiculously involved, because every crown had its separate court that wasn't going to subordinate itself to another nation's court, so a lot of the coordination of his empire had to go through the crown. Min/maxing the inheritance game did some impressive things for the Hapsburgs, but they had a hard time consolidating all their territory, and right up to the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian empire, they still had separate courts refusing to directly intermingle. I think a lot of supporters of monarchism towards the end didn't so much care for absolutism or any of the other philosophical basis, and more just liked how the monarch being swamped with too much junk to get through so that he was more of an absentee dictator, so there could be more local self-management from the inability of the monarch to mess with anything.
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May 27, 2020 21:06
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Craptacular posted:So someone compare the differences between German and Swiss-German in a way that I as a non-German speaker can understand. Is it more like the difference between American English and Scots, or more like the difference between American English and Tok Pisin? FWIW as a second-language (academic) German speaker the written example on the last page was about 60/40 in favor of comprehensible
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May 27, 2020 22:16
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Carbon dioxide posted:* bahasa Indonesia is really a completely separate language from Dutch and there's no form of mutual intelligibility, however because colonialism, Indonesian has a shitload of loanwords from Dutch. To my knowledge, Dutch itself isn't spoken anymore in Indonesia. IIRC learning Dutch was strongly discouraged for native Indonesians. Unlike other colonial powers, the Dutch didn't tend to bring their language with them unless the territory they were colonizing was very small and/or sparsely populated. To pre-empt why Dutch isn't spoken in DR Congo despite it being the majority language of Belgium - well, French was the prestige language and by the time Dutch was no longer considered a peasant patois, Congolese people had zero interest in learning a second colonial language while their own independence movements were growing (with its attendant push for a recognition of their own languages). In a darkly amusing twist, Congolese people also held Flemings to be the most brutal and uncouth of the two Belgian peoples. They sensed that in many cases Flemings (or at least Flemings without a decent command of French) had an inferior status in Belgium and would thus relieve their frustrations on the native peoples of Congo with great enthusiasm. It also didn't help that because Congolese people couldn't understand Dutch, they automatically assumed Flemings were up to no good when they weren't speaking French. Kind of like the idea if people are talking a language near you that you can't understand, you think they're secretly mocking you. In case of Flemings in the Congo, that may well have been true. Also, in re: Afrikaners in the Low Countries, I have met a few, though from my own very anecdotal evidence, they tend to come from the lower middle or lower social strata and their English isn't good enough to easily find jobs in the Anglosphere. All the ones I've met are also insane and quite unpredictable.
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May 27, 2020 23:42
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https://twitter.com/380kmh/status/1265430401922879488/photo/1
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May 28, 2020 03:56
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I wonder which of these states has the highest population? I'd think Rhode Island or Virginia.
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May 28, 2020 04:04
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How the gently caress is West Virginia on the west coast but the Dakotas/Carolinas aren't split north and south.
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May 28, 2020 04:09
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Oklahoma still has a panhandle.
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May 28, 2020 04:10
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GoutPatrol posted:I wonder which of these states has the highest population? I'd think Rhode Island or Virginia. Rhode Island has to be like 40 million or more. Entire NYC metro area, Philadelphia metro, looks like DC area is mostly in it, Columbus, Cincinnati, etc.
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May 28, 2020 04:10
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CommonShore posted:By the 1560s the Spanish were in the Philippines too. It was a staggeringly large empire at its peak: They sailed around Hawai‘i for like two centuries and never found it lol. 
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May 28, 2020 04:20
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Platystemon posted:They sailed around Hawai‘i for like two centuries and never found it lol. IIRC, there is actually a Spanish or Portugese map of the Pacific from around the 1700s that has what looks like Hawaii in the right latitude... but the longitude is off by a fair bit. Which makes sense, given how hard it was to accurately calculate longitude at sea until fairly recently. So it seems like they did find it, they just... didn't properly record where it was and couldn't find it again.
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May 28, 2020 05:59
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 French wine exports in 1864
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May 28, 2020 06:18
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Mauritius was thirsty. 
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May 28, 2020 06:26
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May 28, 2020 06:39
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That's right when the native French wine industry was ended for good. If you weren't aware, all French grapes grown after the mid 19th century come from American vines grown in French soil.
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May 28, 2020 06:40
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:That's right when the native French wine industry was ended for good. but isnt it like, only the root stock that's american? maybe i'm confused. i thought the fruit bearing part is the same
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May 28, 2020 06:54
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Yes. People have been grafting grapevines for like three millennia.
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May 28, 2020 06:57
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Squalid posted:
I like the scale of France v the rest of the world here.
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May 28, 2020 07:07
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Let's be real, Flemings totally are the most uncouth of the Belgian peoples, and many others besides.
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May 28, 2020 07:37
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I like the scale of France v the rest of the world here. Also, like, "What's east of France?" "Germany. Just Germany."
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May 28, 2020 08:43
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Vavrek posted:Also, like, "What's east of France?" "Germany. Just Germany." "Barbarians Wastelands"
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May 28, 2020 10:05
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May 28, 2020 11:26
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The map IS the territory! Or at least defines it, since the lines are all straight on that particular projection and even continue straight into moved territory.
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May 28, 2020 12:27
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Phlegmish posted:As far as emigration is concerned, that's an interesting issue that I've never really thought about, and I would say it's linked to this decoupling that I discussed in the previous paragraph. I am not aware of significant Afrikaner emigration to the Netherlands, much less Flanders, as Count Roland posted. And why is that? After all, they are wealthy, stable Western nations where people speak virtually the same language. I don't know what the actual answer is, but I think the British Empire has ultimately been quite successful at co-opting Afrikaners as an ethnic group, through a combination of force and concessions (including unfortunately apartheid which created a sort of white supremacist solidarity). I have always been a firm believer of the principle that people vote with their feet, and though some Afrikaners might resent historical British domination and imperialism, their emigration patterns speak for themselves. Thanks for the language input - to you and the others Dutch speakers. This was what I wondered. A lot of the Afrikaners I've met to this day are still extremely anti-British. Even to the point of when I was in SA I met quite a few girls who said they'd never bring home an English speaking South African to their parents, because their parents would disown them. So I'm not sure I'd agree that the British successfully co-opted them. Which is why it always struck me as odd that theres a huge South African population in London/Perth, but no big Afrikaans expat community in Flanders/the Netherlands. kustomkarkommando's point about the more recent British ancestry might help partly explain it. But for the Afrikaners even if they did claim a British passport, that would still (well, pre 2021) have given them the right to live/work in a Dutch speaking part of Europe too. His linguistic point is probably a bigger factor that I hadn't thought of: if Dutch and Afrikaans aren't as mutually intelligible as I would have assumed, and given most middle-class Afrikaners speak perfect English, counterintuitively its probably just linguistically easier for them to exist in the UK/Australia than the Netherlands.
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May 28, 2020 12:37
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Isn't Dutch notoriously difficult to practise for (native) English speakers? Not because of the language itself but because most Dutch, except maybe some old people, automatically switch to English as soon as they hear you speak English? At least that is what I hear from a lot of my foreign friends.
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May 28, 2020 13:23
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Molentik posted:Isn't Dutch notoriously difficult to practise for (native) English speakers? Not because of the language itself but because most Dutch, except maybe some old people, automatically switch to English as soon as they hear you speak English? At least that is what I hear from a lot of my foreign friends. That's true of a lot of languages, but people switch back to the native language if you ask them nicely and explain that you're trying to learn.
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May 28, 2020 13:54
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Kamrat posted:That's true of a lot of languages, but people switch back to the native language if you ask them nicely and explain that you're trying to learn. This kinda depends though, for example it’s arguably kinda rude to expect random servers or cashiers or so on to be your personal impromptu learning partner when the interaction would be a lot smoother in english. Depends on the person really.
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May 28, 2020 14:02
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:This kinda depends though, for example it’s arguably kinda rude to expect random servers or cashiers or so on to be your personal impromptu learning partner when the interaction would be a lot smoother in english. Depends on the person really. A lot of that depends on how bad you are at the target language. If you're struggling to bust out "I'd like x please" then they're going to have a lot less patience than if you seem to have a basic grasp but need to smooth out some rough spots.
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May 28, 2020 14:34
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Kamrat posted:That's true of a lot of languages, but people switch back to the native language if you ask them nicely and explain that you're trying to learn. This can be hard too, though. It's is why my French is poo poo.
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May 28, 2020 14:39
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CommonShore posted:This can be hard too, though. It's is why my French is poo poo. Yeah I tried ordering breakfast at a diner in Quebec in my roughly-functional French and got chewed out. She was insulted, she assumed I thought she didn't understand english. It uh discouraged me in my attempts to improve.
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May 28, 2020 15:42
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For what it's worth, I know a South African guy who spoke Afrikaans at home and emigrated to Flanders and he still spoke English with the Flemings because it was easier than learning Dutch. On the other hand, I had Afrikaans classes in high school and it took the Dutch-speakers in my class approximately a month to get comfortable enough with Afrikaans to recite poetry and watch videos in Afrikaans (although listening comprehension was severely marred by nineties-quality audio blasting from a stereo box at maximum volume and bass). Unfortunately the francophones in my class had massive trouble with this lol. High school in Brussels is a wild wasteland that weeds out the weak. I guess, as Phlegmish said, it's easier for Flemings to get comfortable with Afrikaans than the other way around.
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May 28, 2020 16:49
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I'm Tropical Missouri
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May 28, 2020 17:08
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Spoeank posted:I'm Tropical Missouri
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May 28, 2020 17:38
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Molentik posted:Isn't Dutch notoriously difficult to practise for (native) English speakers? Not because of the language itself but because most Dutch, except maybe some old people, automatically switch to English as soon as they hear you speak English? At least that is what I hear from a lot of my foreign friends. I don't know what the equivalent of Weeaboos is for the Netherlands, but I'm it -- and a lot of us are kind of low-key in love with their constant, charming rudeness. When I moved to Sweden, I quickly learned that they're so Lutheran they'll come nearly to blows arguing who has the most Original Sin. This makes it super easy to shame them into not replying in English. "Is my Swedish that bad?" "Don't you speak Swedish?" "I'm not here for you to practice your English." The Dutch on the other hand, so confident in their Predestination (including their "Catholics") will blow right past any fight you put up. You're best learning the language from Limburgers, in the hope you'll eventually learn enough to learn Limburgs, and get shitfaced and shoot at telephone poles with them.
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May 28, 2020 19:10
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Groda posted:I don't know what the equivalent of Weeaboos is for the Netherlands, but I'm it -- and a lot of us are kind of low-key in love with their constant, charming rudeness. "wieëboes" also I assume you're white seriously, though, most of my interactions with Dutch people have been pleasant and if you're not a stereotypically timid Fleming, respect seems to flow both ways. However, some Dutch people have an absurdly massive superiority complex vis à vis everyone else that is equal parts grating and amusing.
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May 28, 2020 19:28
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Weedaboos
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May 28, 2020 20:34
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Personally I have never met a swede that wasn't smug when pressed, but I've never met a swede in Sweden so maybe that changes things.
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May 28, 2020 20:46
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Groda posted:I don't know what the equivalent of Weeaboos is for the Netherlands, but I'm it -- and a lot of us are kind of low-key in love with their constant, charming rudeness. Lol if you identify a predominantly nonreligious country by their supposed belief in "predestination".
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May 28, 2020 20:55
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I have heard it said that Belgium is the Canada to the Netherlands' USA. That has definitely been true in my experience, even extending into their eurovision entries for the past few years. My good friend's charmingly rude Dutch transplant mom is so matter of fact and silly I can't help but love her. Great memories of waking up hungover on their floor, hearing her speaking Dutch on the phone, and immediately thinking I had given myself drinking-induced aphasia or something. Anyway I don't have a map I just love this thread 
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May 28, 2020 21:11
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Spoeank posted:I'm Tropical Missouri I'm the barely-visible slice of "North Carolina" on the southwest of
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May 28, 2020 21:30
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Pope Hilarius II posted:However, some Dutch people have an absurdly massive superiority complex vis à vis everyone else that is equal parts grating and amusing. They're completely oblivious to it even if you point it out to them as a fellow Dutch person. Like, I can't even begin to figure out how to get them to realize how other people see them.
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May 28, 2020 21:33
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