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Eh, 3 stars seems about right. Good match, not great, due to the lovely WWE cage rules
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May 26, 2020 21:42
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We would have gotten a long Bret/Lex feud over the title if only Lex hadn’t drunkenly told that reporter their plans in the bar
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May 26, 2020 23:01
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DeathChicken posted:Yeah, I always thought the implication of the Bret/Yoko ending was that Yoko was concussed from Lex's earlier forearm shot and lost his balance. But he didn't particularly sell it that way and the announcers as I recall didn't sell it that way, so it ended up looking like Yoko just slipped on an invisible second rope banana peel I watched that match a million times and never picked up on that Austin vs. Yoko on that one Free For All had a similar ending where Austin pinned Yoko after the top rope snapped during the Banzai Drop on account of his fatness and he fell backwards MorrisBae fucked around with this message at 04:42 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 04:34
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Maybe this is worthy of its own thread (if it isn't one already) but what are the most contentious matches to be awarded five stars by Dave Meltzer? I ask because I recently watched the Summerslam 1994 cage match between Bret and Owen, and while I thought parts of it were entertaining I also thought it was far too long and, as a result, extremely repetitive. I thought their Wrestlemania match was much, much better, which "only" scored ****3/4. He threw *****1/2 and *****1/4 at the Gargano/Cole matches which I thought were tedious slogs that fed into Gargano's worst habits. Gargano/Andrade was way better than either of those and it got "only" 5.
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May 27, 2020 05:11
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Benne posted:He threw *****1/2 and *****1/4 at the Gargano/Cole matches which I thought were tedious slogs that fed into Gargano's worst habits. Gargano/Andrade was way better than either of those and it got "only" 5. I was going to post this in a slightly more blunt way but I wimped out; nice to see someone else agreeing with me! I'd also add the Gargano-Ciampa matches/feud; especially as it progressed to get even more melodramatic and fake.
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May 27, 2020 11:51
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Gargano Ciampa 1 was great though! It even had one of my fave endings: Gargano doesn't want to fight Ciampa, not really. Extends offer of friendship. Ciampa accepts, but it was a trick! He goes for a final shot but Gargano, in spite his optimism, was ready for it and chokes Ciampa out using the weapon he wanted to use. Such a great ending. Too bad this was the ending to the match and not the feud which just got more and more silly...
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May 27, 2020 13:06
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I’ve said it before but those Cole/gargano matches seemed like they were in slow motion to me. Another thing is just these overly showy dramatic spots that seemed to be there just for the purpose of doing stuff for 30 seconds then both freezing in place so the crowd can cheer and clap for it. Which is of course strange for me to complain about since wrestling is fake and meant to entertain the fans.
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May 27, 2020 13:58
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oldpainless posted:I’ve said it before but those Cole/gargano matches seemed like they were in slow motion to me. Another thing is just these overly showy dramatic spots that seemed to be there just for the purpose of doing stuff for 30 seconds then both freezing in place so the crowd can cheer and clap for it. Which is of course strange for me to complain about since wrestling is fake and meant to entertain the fans. My thing with them is that they feel so forced and inauthentic which isn't what you should be thinking about while a match is going on. The best matches are the ones that suck you in to them and make you forget that what you are watching isn't real and those Cole-Gargano matches really don't and I look at them from this weird position because of that. There's a lot of self-indulgence there (hey look at what I can do!! type stuff that doesn't really amount to anything in the overall story of the match) plus the overwrought nature of NXT now just makes the things exhausting to watch and not in a good way. On your last point: the fact that you thought "they did this just to get the crowd to cheer" is a negative thing: sure that's what pro wrestling is but there are ways to do it in a way that feels more meaningful. At risk of sounding like Jim Cornette or someone like him: its pro wrestling not gymnastics: the fact that you can do impressive physical acts means less to me than your ability to put together a really compelling pro wrestling match without those things. I really like Japanese rookie matches for that reason: its really interesting to see people put together genuinely very good matches with a limited amount of moves they are allowed to use and like I'd rate any New Japan young lion match or any Joshi rookie match over any of the Gargano-Cole matches for that reason: the simplicity of them makes them more interesting to me.
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May 27, 2020 19:25
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Here's a silly question that only completist nerds would have the answer to: Do we know who the lineal Champion is for Zack Ryder's Internet Championship? I am listening to his Talk is Jericho episode, and he said he had a title defense where he beat Primo. But knowing Zack's career, he surely lost the 'lineal' belt a long time before that, and it would have been passed on and on to someone else by now.
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May 28, 2020 09:58
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The HBK vs Undertaker HIAC match getting 5* feels a bit egregious when their Mania matches didn't despite them probably being better
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May 29, 2020 20:22
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Purple Monkey posted:The HBK vs Undertaker HIAC match getting 5* feels a bit egregious when their Mania matches didn't despite them probably being better Nah, HIAC is better than both of their 'Mania matches
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May 29, 2020 20:45
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Purple Monkey posted:The HBK vs Undertaker HIAC match getting 5* feels a bit egregious when their Mania matches didn't despite them probably being better I literally watched this match yesterday; aside from Shawn slightly struggling to piledrive Undertaker on the ring steps, it's perfect. Even that slight misstep can be attributed in-story to fatigue/weakness; it fits. The only part about the match I'm not certain of is whether Shawn planned the attack on the cameraman to be able to escape, or if that was just a frustration/heel move. He doesn't make a break for the door until Hebner's about to close it, so I'm guessing the latter. That match, for me, is one of the best WWF matches of the last 25 years, along with HHH/Cactus at the Rumble, Bret/Austin at WM13, and a few others.
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May 29, 2020 22:18
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Red posted:I literally watched this match yesterday; aside from Shawn slightly struggling to piledrive Undertaker on the ring steps, it's perfect. Even that slight misstep can be attributed in-story to fatigue/weakness; it fits.  Storyline was much, much better leading into the HIAC match, as well.
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May 29, 2020 22:21
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Randaconda posted:
Absolutely; the story flow stemming from Shawn’s rise/fall/makeover, Bret’s disillusionment, Austin’s rise, the Taker’s move from sideshow to serious, Kane, it’s amazing how it all ties together. Even Sid fits into the whole thing.
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May 29, 2020 22:36
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Red posted:Absolutely; the story flow stemming from Shawn’s rise/fall/makeover, Bret’s disillusionment, Austin’s rise, the Taker’s move from sideshow to serious, Kane, it’s amazing how it all ties together. Even Sid fits into the whole thing. Sid was perfectly fine during that time, tbh. But I'm a known Sid apologist.
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May 29, 2020 22:37
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Randaconda posted:Sid was perfectly fine during that time, tbh. Sid was usually booked just right, IIRC. His match quality could be all over the place, but he loving showed up when he got the title. And softball season always began before he got stale.
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May 29, 2020 22:40
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Red posted:Sid was usually booked just right, IIRC. His match quality could be all over the place, but he loving showed up when he got the title. Sid almost always tried, which is a lot more than I can say for some people much more talented
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May 29, 2020 22:44
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Speaking of Sid and softball, do we know if he was good at it? Picturing him in a game is a funny thought.
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May 29, 2020 22:51
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BrigadierSensible posted:Here's a silly question that only completist nerds would have the answer to: 2011: Bourne, Alberto del Rio, Rey Mysterio, CM Punk, Rey, Cena, Punk, ADR, Cena, ADR, Punk 2012: Punk, Bryan, Punk, Kane, Sheamus, Punk 2013: Punk, Rock, Cena, Bryan, Orton, Bryan, Orton 2014: Orton, Kingston, ADR, Batista, ADR, Sin Cara, Bad News Barrett, Sheamus, Cesaro, Kofi, Cesaro, Kofi, Cesaro, Rob Van Dam, ADR, Roman Reigns. 2015: Roman, Big Show, Roman, Rollins, Cena, Rusev, Cena, Owens, Cena, Rollins, Ryback, Rollins, Cena, ADR, Roman, Sheamus, Roman 2016: Roman, Rollins, Ambrose, AJ Styles, Cena 2017: Cena, Bray Wyatt, Orton, Wyatt, Finn Balor, Roman, Samoa Joe, Brock Lesnar 2018: Lesnar, Roman 2019: Roman, Shane McMahon, Owens, Samoa Joe, Owens, Elias 2020: Elias has not lost a singles match since winning the Internet championship on August 20, 2019 I think this is a pretty good encapsulation of WWE booking for the past decade in general, though bizarrely Baron Corbin never won it.
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May 29, 2020 23:56
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Randaconda posted:Sid almost always tried, which is a lot more than I can say for some people much more talented Sid did not almost always try. He did not always even show up for work.
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May 30, 2020 00:33
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Barely showing up and not trying when you do? Sid’s a drat hero. Also for the longest time I though people were using “softball” to insinuate something else but I guess it just meant literally playing softball.
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May 30, 2020 00:37
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Considering Sid’s choice of weapons in the past, I don’t blame you.
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May 30, 2020 01:13
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Didn’t Sid attack someone with a squeegee one time? For some reason I vaguely recall a story about Sid and a squeegee.
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May 30, 2020 01:23
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Maigius posted:Speaking of Sid and softball, do we know if he was good at it? Picturing him in a game is a funny thought. I doubt he's out there manning CF but I bet if he gets ahold of one he doesn't have to run the bases too fast.
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May 30, 2020 01:29
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Sandman McMahon posted:Didn’t Sid attack someone with a squeegee one time? For some reason I vaguely recall a story about Sid and a squeegee. I just skimmed an article about this and boy does it make Sid seem pathetic lol
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May 30, 2020 01:30
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He started a fight with Brian Pillman in a bar and Brian embarrassed him. Sid left and later returned with a squeegee from a nearby gas station but Pillman was gone.
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May 30, 2020 01:30
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Sandman McMahon posted:Didn’t Sid attack someone with a squeegee one time? For some reason I vaguely recall a story about Sid and a squeegee. He tried to use one in an altercation with Pillman. But he claims now that the story is overblown. He also claims that he meant to Powerbomb Pillman as dangerously as he did in Wargames so who knows what's going on with Sid!
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May 30, 2020 01:31
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Pope Corky the IX posted:He started a fight with Brian Pillman in a bar and Brian embarrassed him. Sid left and later returned with a squeegee from a nearby gas station but Pillman was gone. Sid said his car wouldn't start so while someone was jumping him off, he saw the squeegee on the floorboard and came back and threatened Pillman with it.
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May 30, 2020 01:33
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Sid also poo poo his pants at Wrestlemania 13.
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May 30, 2020 01:35
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Sid is the platonic ideal of "galoot." Also he pooed himself once, fighting "The Undertaker"
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May 30, 2020 01:35
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Everyone. Sid shitted during a match
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May 30, 2020 01:37
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To the best of my memory: The squeegee story is that Sid was in the bar with Brian Pillman and a bunch of wrestlers and they were discussing the business and what was wrong with it and Sid said the problem was little guys like Pillman getting pushes when they couldn't get over. This pissed off Pillman who started a fight and Sid peaced out but then returned with a squeegee in a failed attempt to sucker Pillman. This sometimes gets confused with his Arn Anderson story where they were in a bar discussing the business and what was wrong with it and Sid said the problem was old guys like Ric Flair who wouldn't get out of the way. This pissed off Arn who started a fight and then it broke up and they peaced out but Sid came back with a broken chair leg to try and sucker Arn. Arn retaliated with a pair of scissors and stabbed Sid. Sid downplays both stories to where he's kind of a victim but the common thread seems to be Sid instigating fights in bars by being an insulting dick, backing out, and then trying to sucker the guy with a weapon later.
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May 30, 2020 01:38
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Powerbomb more like Pooerbomb
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May 30, 2020 01:38
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He definitely had a muppet-like quality to him, a large muppet with large muscles.
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May 30, 2020 01:40
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I love the fact that Sid poo poo himself at Wrestlemania 13 even more now that I know how much of a colossal rear end in a top hat the Undertaker is.
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May 30, 2020 01:43
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I am fond of Sid's weird punches
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May 30, 2020 01:43
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I liked when he destroyed the Barber Shop with a chair and the first thing he did was hit a can of shaving cream and it exploded in his face.
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May 30, 2020 01:46
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Sid is sounding more awesome with every post, tbh. edit: well except the part where he tried to intentionally injure Pillman
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May 30, 2020 01:49
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I just remembered how tan Sid was and that activated some neuron which remembered a pamphlet which "Powerslam" magazine put out. It was about the "Ten Best Paid Wrestlers" and in the Hulk Hogan entry they listed his main strength as "Excellent Promo" and his main weakness as "Skin cancer seems inevitable."
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May 30, 2020 01:50
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I liked when he destroyed the Barber Shop with a chair and the first thing he did was hit a can of shaving cream and it exploded in his face. I had never seen this before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWZa8G2boSA It is good.
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May 30, 2020 01:54
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