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Heithinn Grasida posted:How many super low offense teams are there that you could really stumble into? Hawkeye does at least reasonable damage in all his classes except maybe nightblade, which could use a buff. It might even be fine if max HP reduction worked properly on bosses. Kevin does good damage in every class, as does Angela. For Charlotte, only L/L doesn’t really contribute much, the other classes are at least moderately competent damage dealers. Riesz and Duran in their light classes both lack damage, but I think that should be changed for Vanadys. That means to have a team with really poor damage output, you’d need to run something like Light Duran, Light/Light Charlotte and Light Riesz, which should be pretty obviously overlapping in roles. You’d still be pretty much unkillable with that kind of party, though. The game just needs more ways to up the challenge besides numbers. Even for the first half of the game when most characters CAN'T just delete enemies from the field (IE, anyone not Angela post-Full Metal Haggar) you just don't take damage at all most fights because most enemies are easy to avoid and pack very obvious tells. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, just the cost of the game becoming a fairly straightforward action RPG. Juicing their stats wouldn't do much in that world because the only time I wasn't getting the No Damage XP bonus in like 95% of random fights was Wound Magic Angela since self-damage counts against that. That said, giving enemies access to more interesting stuff without delving into old SFC SD3 fuckery like instant counterattacks could be cool. It's really weird that most enemies in the end game are usually limited to the same one or two easy-to-dodge spells and very slow melee attacks instead of anything picking up some new tricks compared to Chapter 2 enemies.. Some of the bosses get some fancy tricks but trash mobs never get more interesting outside the weird exception like the final stage shapeshifters, and that's probably the biggest thing that holds the moment to moment combat back.
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# ? May 24, 2020 21:11 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 03:59 |
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I really like that you only take serious damage when you gently caress up dodging an attack, I just wish their attacks had more variety than the FF14-style "there's a circle that fills up and don't stand in it"
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# ? May 24, 2020 21:19 |
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Arkeus posted:It feels like modding up enemy health would also help less offensive oriented party because it means their schitck would actually matter. Nightblade instant kill will be relevant, Duran's heals or Charlotte's would help, and Vanadys would probably look a bit better too? Anyway, I have a question; does leaf/moon saber work with class strikes? If it does, leaf saber + class strike sounds like a good full MP restore.
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# ? May 25, 2020 16:25 |
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https://twitter.com/shmuplations/status/1265295702143332354quote:—Turning now to the music, I’ve heard some interesting stories. Is it true Ishii asked for one of the songs to sound like a pro wrestler’s entrance theme? Phantasium fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 26, 2020 |
# ? May 26, 2020 16:44 |
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"No simple human characters" is an interesting idea and it's obvious on reflection, although I did not notice at the time.
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# ? May 26, 2020 17:10 |
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That interview is really lovely, just like the game. For damage purposes, what stat do Hawkeye's "diversion" skills use? If it's Luck, I'm starting to think I beefed it a bit going for Ninja Master Hawk and Star Lancer Riesz.
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# ? May 26, 2020 18:17 |
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Poque posted:That interview is really lovely, just like the game. Intelligence. Respeccing stat points is kinda trivial though. Just go to Beiser and spend some cash at the Night Market.
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# ? May 26, 2020 18:18 |
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Captain Oblivious posted:Intelligence. Respeccing stat points is kinda trivial though. Just go to Beiser and spend some cash at the Night Market. Oh, I just meant that if they went off of Luck that none of Riesz's stat ups would be of any use for him. If her Mental Boost will work on him then I'm golden, since it'll also benefit Sage Charlotte.
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# ? May 26, 2020 18:20 |
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Yeah, Ninja Master Hawkeye is basically Angela With Debuffs.
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# ? May 26, 2020 18:51 |
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It's super weird going from a playthrough where I controlled just a straight-up fighter/healer in Liege Duran to controlling my elemental diversion Hawk. I still run in and fight in basically every battle, but I can see how strong the moves are gonna be when I can AOE them (and go beyond 15 in any stat). I get the feeling that if I can do my level 38 class change early in the Benevodon cycle, I'm gonna wipe the floor with Earth/Wind/Water/Fire given I'll have Ninja Master Hawk's moves, Sage Charlotte's sabers, and Star Lancer Riesz's stat boosts. Probably gonna go BOYS TRIP for my all-star NG+ run after this, controlling Warrior Monk Kevin and bringing along Rogue Hawkeye and Edelfrei Duran.
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# ? May 29, 2020 15:49 |
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Dicks Out for Karl
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# ? May 29, 2020 16:18 |
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Poque posted:It's super weird going from a playthrough where I controlled just a straight-up fighter/healer in Liege Duran to controlling my elemental diversion Hawk. I still run in and fight in basically every battle, but I can see how strong the moves are gonna be when I can AOE them (and go beyond 15 in any stat). I get the feeling that if I can do my level 38 class change early in the Benevodon cycle, I'm gonna wipe the floor with Earth/Wind/Water/Fire given I'll have Ninja Master Hawk's moves, Sage Charlotte's sabers, and Star Lancer Riesz's stat boosts. Frankly Dirt Diversion+ dickstomps anything that doesn't have the sense to be immune to Earth damage. It's awesome.
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# ? May 29, 2020 16:46 |
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Love to hear it. After class change I'll respec and max out Luck and Int first, I think. Then whatever gives me skills I'm after. Extremely annoying that the Tomato Man chain skill doesn't work on these moves though!
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# ? May 29, 2020 16:49 |
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Love of mana and obsidian power make this game so easy. Can you get class 3 if you meet the requirements by the time of the normal first class change?
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# ? May 30, 2020 15:20 |
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Out of curiosity what party would be the absolute most broken in terms of damage? I figured it was all dark Kevin/Angela/Charlotte right?
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# ? May 30, 2020 15:46 |
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Out of curiosity what party would be the absolute most broken in terms of damage? I think you’d have to focus on either Kevin or Angela as your main damage dealer. Angela probably ends up stronger in the end game, but Kevin is better for at least the first 2/3s of the game and remains really strong up to the end. For a Kevin team, you need Edelfrei — Attack Saber 1 and 2 and possibly Flourish are just too good to give up — so Fatal Fist (D/D Kevin), Edelfrei (D/L Duran) and Dragon Master (D/L Riesz), Fenris Knight (D/D Riesz), Ninja Master (D/L Hawkeye) or maybe even Nomad (L/L Hawkeye) are likely best. For Angela, Magus, Liege, Dragon Master or Fenris Knight is probably the best damage. If you don’t use night market items, you should take Star Lancer instead of Fenris Knight, since Star Lancer can both buff and debuff magic. Personally I think Kevin feels stronger overall in spite of what people say, but I don’t like pure casters and I haven’t tried Magus.
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# ? May 30, 2020 17:04 |
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Crap, wrong thread.
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# ? May 30, 2020 17:11 |
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So despite declaring I wasn't going to bother with platinum, I find myself only 2 trophies away so I'm going for it. Doing third playthru now and this remake has a lot of issues which bother me. The load times are obnoxious and numerous due to all of the backtracking. The worst offender is taking 15 minutes to switch classes for all three characters because of all the back n forth. Too many of the character builds are technically viable but sort of unfun to play. As mentioned many times by others they were way too generous with healing items which makes support characters a hindrance because damage trumps all. Castable buffs are fine for bosses but useless for everything else, you're better off just picking builds with auras whenever possible. Your buffs seemingly don't persist between fights which makes some character builds kind of useless outside of bosses because normal enemies don't last long even on hard. The game lacks any sort of challenge outside of a first playthru and 2 bosses, one of which is optional. This really needed some sort of challenge mode or something for your godmode characters in New Game Plus. Anyways I'm going to finish out today with the platinum and I enjoyed my first playthru but I can't see myself ever going back to this. Which is fine, I got my moneys worth. Just a shame that they didn't get a bit more budget because they could've really fleshed this out a bit. I hope the fact that it sold decently will mean better things for future Square remakes.
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# ? May 30, 2020 17:30 |
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:Love of mana and obsidian power make this game so easy. Can you get class 3 if you meet the requirements by the time of the normal first class change? You can if you have the class change items. I had over 50 ???? seeds when I started my first NG+ so that harpy boss got an unpleasant surprise.
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# ? May 30, 2020 18:35 |
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The Gunslinger posted:Too many of the character builds are technically viable but sort of unfun to play. As mentioned many times by others they were way too generous with healing items which makes support characters a hindrance because damage trumps all. Castable buffs are fine for bosses but useless for everything else, you're better off just picking builds with auras whenever possible. I personally think that a lot of skills just aren't very suitable for an action game. Riesz buffs and debuffs in particular seem more suited for a game where you cannot avoid enemy attacks and need to get the numbers on your side instead. Having the buffs last between fights would make things better, but a lot of the skills just weren't designed for an action heavier game than Seiken Densetsu 3 originally was.
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# ? May 31, 2020 19:28 |
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I wish you could pick and choose what carries forward in a NG+ - it'd be awesome to have selectors for levels/lucre/items/chains. Playing through as a way-overleveled god is boring as poo poo, but it'd be clutch to be able to carry forward any ??? seeds, Lucky Find II, and have a toggle for level grinding with Love of Mana. Also let me use costumes from the older files too, dammit! I'm worried about my Warrior Monk Kevin being carried away by a gust of wind in those enormous pants. I'm halfway through the benevodons in under five hours since Kevin started at level 76. Also I'm loving some of the dialogue I'm getting in my BOYS TRIP party, in the desert Hawk was lamenting having to travel with so many sweaty men.
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# ? Jun 6, 2020 00:56 |
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In Secret of Mana is it worth grinding out weapon levels or not really if you don't regularly charge to high levels? I know you're supposed to grind magic, but so far I've also been keeping all weapons up on all three party members, but after level 5 it's taking much longer to do that.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 03:49 |
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Each character has weapons they specialize in and iirc gain levels quicker. You should really only level up a few weapons for each character.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 03:55 |
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the only reason to worry about those is for charge attacks but literally every time i bring up charge attacks i get the impression everyone hates using them and never bothers. maybe the levels actually give you a bonus to damage, i've never looked it up and it's never been necessary imo. but also i get away with maybe leveling one set of spells through a playthrough so i'm probably wrong.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 03:59 |
Is the Secret of Mana remake still widely considered to be garbage or is it worth trying out at a good price?
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 04:00 |
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Poque posted:I wish you could pick and choose what carries forward in a NG+ - it'd be awesome to have selectors for levels/lucre/items/chains. Playing through as a way-overleveled god is boring as poo poo, but it'd be clutch to be able to carry forward any ??? seeds, Lucky Find II, and have a toggle for level grinding with Love of Mana. Also let me use costumes from the older files too, dammit! I'm worried about my Warrior Monk Kevin being carried away by a gust of wind in those enormous pants. Maybe something like the Tales series Grade shop? Only similar thing i know of.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 04:02 |
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Is the Secret of Mana remake still widely considered to be garbage or is it worth trying out at a good price? idk because i never thought it was garbage. the really bad bugs it had at launch should be gone at least (i never really tested it because i got the plat before they were done fixing it)
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 04:07 |
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Is the Secret of Mana remake still widely considered to be garbage or is it worth trying out at a good price? If you don't have a Switch to play the original version with the Mana Collection, then yeah, it's worth trying out for a decent price. However, change the music in the options to the SNES soundtrack and never listen to the remixed versions because it's awful.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 07:55 |
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The combat in Trials isn't quite as involved enough to require a grade shop. The XP bonii are incentive enough to do well by themselves really. A bunch of toggles for what you want to carry over would do just fine.ExcessBLarg! posted:In Secret of Mana is it worth grinding out weapon levels or not really if you don't regularly charge to high levels? sigher posted:If you don't have a Switch to play the original version with the Mana Collection, then yeah, it's worth trying out for a decent price. However, change the music in the options to the SNES soundtrack and never listen to the remixed versions because it's awful.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 10:51 |
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I’d recommend the remake over the original just because it’s way less janky. They fixed most of the hitboxes so they make sense, attacks say “miss” if the enemy evades/blocks it instead of it saying nothing, you can have a couple of shortcuts for spells, the voice acting is cute and the inn scenes that flesh out the story are fun. It’s fundamentally the same as the original, plus you can change the music back to the original if you don’t like the new versions.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 14:54 |
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The SoM remake is Fine. It sucks because it's a wasted opportunity because Secret of Mana is one of those games that really, really, really could use a full-on update and gameplay-wise it's almost entirely a straight port (And most of the gameplay changes that do occur are oversights in the new engine.) But a lot of people were 'this is so much worse then the SNES version' and, really, the game a very, very close mechanical remake of the SNES version with a better soundtrack and sidegrade graphics and it turns out most people just forgot how Secret of Mana actually played.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 16:40 |
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:Each character has weapons they specialize in and iirc gain levels quicker. You should really only level up a few weapons for each character. Is this new in the remake? Cuz it's definitely not the case in the original
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 17:07 |
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Poque posted:Is this new in the remake? Cuz it's definitely not the case in the original I thought it was but maybe not? Like I thought that the Boy did better with the sword, Girl with the knuckles, Sprite with the bow and boomerang, etc
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 17:12 |
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:I thought it was but maybe not? Like I thought that the Boy did better with the sword, Girl with the knuckles, Sprite with the bow and boomerang, etc I don't know damage formulas so it's possible that the sword/axe rely on strength (which would be better for the Boy) and others rely on different stats like agility, making them better for the others. But the leveling thing was equal across weapons and characters (at least in the original). I really should play the remake for as much as I love the original. My biggest concern was that the mechanics that allow me to basically sleepwalk through the original would be changed just slightly enough to make it tough to play, but it sounds like it might be exactly my jam.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 17:15 |
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I don't believe characters had any weapon preferences in the original. All the weapons run off the same stat, which is highest on the Boy, then the Girl, then the Sprite, and they all gain weapon XP at the same rate. This generally means the Sprite and the Girl would generally prefer to be the ones with high-power weapons on the occasion high-defense enemies show up if they want to actually do damage with attacks, although the real answer is the strongest weapon goes on who's player controlled at the time because relying on the AI to attack is a non-starter. I know in the way back everyone in the group called dibs on weapons, with the Hero getting the Sword and Axe cause he was a strong lad (and the Whip if he ever needed a ranged weapon,) the one of us playing the girl got the Spear and Javelin cause they had the coolest charge attacks and they would never attack without charging fully, and the Sprite got the Bow and Boomerang because he was fragile and his player was the youngest of us and tended to play scared. But mechanically there's little difference among the three characters when it comes to weapon wielding.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 17:31 |
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I got really lazy at some point in my playthroughs and just started giving Popoi and Purim the axe and the whip so I could use those weapons when they're required by just hitting select.Poque posted:My biggest concern was that the mechanics that allow me to basically sleepwalk through the original would be changed just slightly enough to make it tough to play, but it sounds like it might be exactly my jam. Lol no, the game is even easier now. Your party members dutifully line up to attack in sequence since their AI is no longer garbage so that you can lockdown most enemies in the game, and the turns are faster and the spell shortcuts mean you can just have healing ready at a moments notice. I remember a lot of people really salty about the beginning of the forest to get to Spiky Tiger because the Chobin Hoods could aim in 8 directions now but the rest of the game is trivial.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 17:53 |
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Personally I think Kevin feels stronger overall in spite of what people say, but I don’t like pure casters and I haven’t tried Magus. In terms of overall and just beating the game faster, Kevin is better at that. Speedruns seem to use the exact same team SFC speedruns do, except Riesz is Light now instead of Dark. But T3 Angela is so stupidly ahead of everyone else that its much more noticeable, including Kevin. Melee just doesnt compare with how insane Magic can be endgame. But Kevin, Edelfrei and Dark Riesz try. If you want your endgame team to just utterly smash anything, then yeah Angela is better. But if you want to smash poo poo throughout the game, Kevin is better for that. Blackbelt Bobman posted:I thought it was but maybe not? Like I thought that the Boy did better with the sword, Girl with the knuckles, Sprite with the bow and boomerang, etc Dont think there was much if any difference with what weapons each used. The setup you described is what Square seems to push though. Purim being a punchgirl is neat cute and hot so im totally ok with that descision.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 22:20 |
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Phantasium posted:I got really lazy at some point in my playthroughs and just started giving Popoi and Purim the axe and the whip so I could use those weapons when they're required by just hitting select. To be fair it is bullshit that they can shoot in 8 directions, that part is actually fairly difficult.
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# ? Jun 9, 2020 23:12 |
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So, I realize this comes completely out of left field, but I've been playing Sword of Mana, have been dumping all of my level ups into sage, but none of my spells do more than 1 damage against bosses. Is this normal and sage just a terrible idea to pick up?
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# ? Jun 10, 2020 15:59 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 03:59 |
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This is normal and the only reason to pick a magic focused class set is for the effect that makes healing light stronger. You can grind magic levels decently well by repeatedly using them on bosses if you want, or if you find the right rare elemental cyclops, power-leveling elements on them is absurdly quick. But I wouldn't worry about it, weapons are generally better in most cases excepting monsters that can't be hurt by them, especially after reforging them with various materials.
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# ? Jun 10, 2020 16:34 |