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chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

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Grammarchist
Jan 28, 2013


A spinoff featuring only characters from the middle column seems like it would be fun.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

Grammarchist posted:

A spinoff featuring only characters from the middle column seems like it would be fun.

Leah and Rosalie start out antagonizing each other, only to find they have a lot of shared trauma from abusive previous relationships and their own infertility. They bond and become a support system for each other, and eventually enter a romance even more star-crossed than Bella and Edward's.

oh god what have i become

A Real Horse
Oct 26, 2013


Dienes posted:

Leah and Rosalie start out antagonizing each other, only to find they have a lot of shared trauma from abusive previous relationships and their own infertility. They bond and become a support system for each other, and eventually enter a romance even more star-crossed than Bella and Edward's.

oh god what have i become

A more exciting author than Stephanie Meyer.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

quote:

Funny how having a deadline made it harder to think about leaving, or having her leave. I was glad Seth’d brought that up, so I knew they were staying here. It would be intolerable, wondering if they were about to go, to take away one or two or three of those four days. My four days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccmgFo5c7Ug

quote:

Also funny how, even knowing that it was almost over, the hold she had on me only got harder to break. Almost like it was related to her expanding belly—as if by getting bigger, she was gaining gravitational force.

If you know what's coming: yes, this is exactly the cause you think.

quote:

For a minute I tried to look at her from a distance, to separate myself from the pull. I knew it wasn’t my imagination that my need for her was stronger than ever. Why was that? Because she was dying? Or knowing that even if she didn’t, still—best case scenario—she’d be changing into something else that I wouldn’t know or understand?

She ran her finger across my cheekbone, and my skin was wet where she touched it.

“It’s going to be okay,” she sort of crooned. It didn’t matter that the words meant nothing. She said it the way people sang those senseless nursery rhymes to kids. Rock-a-bye, baby.

It's really hard to tell who Meyer wants us to sympathize with the most here. While Bella ultimately turns out to be right in the end, she looks like a delusional lunatic.

quote:

“Right,” I muttered.

She curled against my arm, resting her head on my shoulder. “I didn’t think you would come. Seth said you would, and so did Edward, but I didn’t believe them.”

“Why not?” I asked gruffly.

“You’re not happy here. But you came anyway.”

“You wanted me here.”

“I know. But you didn’t have to come, because it’s not fair for me to want you here. I would have understood.”

It was quiet for a minute. Edward’d put his face back together. He looked at the TV as Rosalie went on flipping through the channels. She was into the six hundreds. I wondered how long it would take to get back to the beginning.

This scene is just so weird to envision.

quote:

“Thank you for coming,” Bella whispered.

“Can I ask you something?” I asked.

“Of course.”

Edward didn’t look like he was paying attention to us at all, but he knew what I was about to ask, so he didn’t fool me.

“Why do you want me here? Seth could keep you warm, and he’s probably easier to be around, happy little punk. But when I walk in the door, you smile like I’m your favorite person in the world.”

“You’re one of them.”

"Not sure why, but..."

quote:

“That sucks, you know.”

“Yeah.” She sighed. “Sorry.”

“Why, though? You didn’t answer that.”

Edward was looking away again, like he was staring out the windows. His face was blank in the reflection.

“It feels… complete when you’re here, Jacob. Like all my family is together. I mean, I guess that’s what it’s like—I’ve never had a big family before now. It’s nice.” She smiled for half a second. “But it’s just not whole unless you’re here.”

“I’ll never be part of your family, Bella.”

I could have been. I would have been good there. But that was just a distant future that died long before it had a chance to live.

I'm sure Stephenie will find a totally normal way for him to be part of her family!

quote:

“You’ve always been a part of my family,” she disagreed.

My teeth made a grinding sound. “That’s a crap answer.”

“What’s a good one?”

“How about, ‘Jacob, I get a kick out of your pain.’”

I felt her flinch.

“You’d like that better?” she whispered.

“It’s easier, at least. I could wrap my head around it. I could deal with it.”

These people are so hosed up and I honestly can't believe we're supposed to consider them loyal friends.

quote:

I looked back down at her face then, so close to mine. Her eyes were shut and she was frowning. “We got off track, Jake. Out of balance. You’re supposed to be part of my life—I can feel that, and so can you.” She paused for a second without opening her eyes—like she was waiting for me to deny it. When I didn’t say anything, she went on. “But not like this. We did something wrong. No. I did. I did something wrong, and we got off track.…”

Her voice trailed off, and the frown on her face relaxed until it was just a little pucker at the corner of her lips. I waited for her to pour some more lemon juice into my paper cuts, but then a soft snore came from the back of her throat.

Power move: fall asleep in the middle of telling the guy crushing on you why you're not dating him.

quote:

“She’s exhausted,” Edward murmured. “It’s been a long day. A hard day. I think she would have gone to sleep earlier, but she was waiting for you.”

I didn’t look at him.

“Seth said it broke another of her ribs.”

“Yes. It’s making it hard for her to breathe.”

“Great.”

“Let me know when she gets hot again.”

“Yeah.”

She still had goose bumps on the arm that wasn’t touching mine. I’d barely raised my head to look for a blanket when Edward snagged one draped over the arm of the sofa and flung it out so that it settled over her.



quote:

Occasionally, the mind-reading thing saved time. For example, maybe I wouldn’t have to make a big production out of the accusation about what was going on with Charlie. That mess. Edward would just hear exactly how furious—

“Yes,” he agreed. “It’s not a good idea.”

“Then why?” Why was Bella telling her father she was on the mend when it would only make him more miserable?

“She can’t bear his anxiety.”

“So it’s better—”

“No. It’s not better. But I’m not going to force her to do anything that makes her unhappy now. Whatever happens, this makes her feel better. I’ll deal with the rest afterward.”

That didn’t sound right. Bella wouldn’t just shuffle Charlie’s pain off to some later date, for someone else to face. Even dying. That wasn’t her. If I knew Bella, she had to have some other plan.

A terrible, poorly considered plan that makes things worse.

quote:

“She’s very sure she’s going to live,” Edward said.

“But not human,” I protested.

“No, not human. But she hopes to see Charlie again, anyway.”

Oh, this just got better and better.

“See. Charlie.” I finally looked at him, my eyes bugging. “Afterwards. See Charlie when she’s all sparkly white with the bright red eyes. I’m not a bloodsucker, so maybe I’m missing something, but Charlie seems like kind of a strange choice for her first meal.”

Edward sighed. “She knows she won’t be able to be near him for at least a year. She thinks she can stall. Tell Charlie she has to go to a special hospital on the other side of the world. Keep in contact through phone calls.…”

“That’s insane.”

“Yes.”

This reminds me of Handbook for Mortals where Zade's magickal near-death is covered up as an extremely obscure combination of rare diseases.

quote:

“Charlie’s not stupid. Even if she doesn’t kill him, he’s going to notice a difference.”

“She’s sort of banking on that.”

I continued to stare, waiting for him to explain.

“She wouldn’t be aging, of course, so that would set a time limit, even if Charlie accepted whatever excuse she comes up with for the changes.” He smiled faintly. “Do you remember when you tried to tell her about your transformation? How you made her guess?”

My free hand flexed into a fist. “She told you about that?”

“Yes. She was explaining her… idea. You see, she’s not allowed to tell Charlie the truth—it would be very dangerous for him. But he’s a smart, practical man. She thinks he’ll come up with his own explanation. She assumes he’ll get it wrong.” Edward snorted. “After all, we hardly adhere to vampire canon. He’ll make some wrong assumption about us, like she did in the beginning, and we’ll go along with it. She thinks she’ll be able to see him… from time to time.”

So her plan is to give her dad a heart attack.

quote:

“Insane,” I repeated.

“Yes,” he agreed again.

It was weak of him to let her get her way on this, just to keep her happy now. It wouldn’t turn out well.

Which made me think that he probably wasn’t expecting her to live to try out her crazy plan. Placating her, so that she could be happy for a little while longer.

Like four more days.

And then turning her into a vampire works and he has to desperately try to reason with his wife as she tries to implement every crazy plan he agreed to.

quote:

“I’ll deal with whatever comes,” he whispered, and he turned his face down and away so that I couldn’t even read his reflection. “I won’t cause her pain now.”

“Four days?” I asked.

He didn’t look up. “Approximately.”

“Then what?”

“What do you mean, exactly?”

I thought about what Bella had said. About the thing being wrapped up nice and tight in something strong, something like vampire skin. So how did that work? How did it get out?

“From what little research we’ve been able to do, it would appear the creatures use their own teeth to escape the womb,” he whispered.

I had to pause to swallow back the bile.

Yeah this book is gonna go places.

quote:

“Research?” I asked weakly.

“That’s why you haven’t seen Jasper and Emmett around. That’s what Carlisle is doing now. Trying to decipher ancient stories and myths, as much as we can with what we have to work with here, looking for anything that might help us predict the creature’s behavior.”

Stories? If there were myths, then…

“Then is this thing not the first of its kind?” Edward asked, anticipating my question. “Maybe. It’s all very sketchy. The myths could easily be the products of fear and imagination. Though…”—he hesitated—“your myths are true, are they not? Perhaps these are, too. They do seem to be localized, linked.…”

“How did you find…?”

“There was a woman we encountered in South America. She’d been raised in the traditions of her people. She’d heard warnings about such creatures, old stories that had been passed down.”

“What were the warnings?” I whispered.

“That the creature must be killed immediately. Before it could gain too much strength.”

Just like Sam thought. Was he right?

“Of course, their legends say the same of us. That we must be destroyed. That we are soulless murderers.”

Two for two.

Edward laughed one hard chuckle.

So...you have even more reason to terminate this pregnancy.

quote:

“What did their stories say about the… mothers?”

Agony ripped across his face, and, as I flinched away from his pain, I knew he wasn’t going to give me an answer. I doubted he could talk.

It was Rosalie—who’d been so still and quiet since Bella’d fallen asleep that I’d nearly forgotten her—who answered.

She made a scornful noise in the back of her throat. “Of course there were no survivors,” she said. No survivors, blunt and uncaring. “Giving birth in the middle of a disease-infested swamp with a medicine man smearing sloth spit across your face to drive out the evil spirits was never the safest method. Even the normal births went badly half the time. None of them had what this baby has—caregivers with an idea of what the baby needs, who try to meet those needs. A doctor with a totally unique knowledge of vampire nature. A plan in place to deliver the baby as safely as possible. Venom that will repair anything that goes wrong. The baby will be fine. And those other mothers would probably have survived if they’d had that—if they even existed in the first place. Something I am not convinced of.” She sniffed disdainfully.

Maybe tone down on the medicine man insults in front of the Native American.

quote:

The baby, the baby. Like that was all that mattered. Bella’s life was a minor detail to her—easy to blow off.

Edward’s face went white as snow. His hands curved into claws. Totally egotistical and indifferent, Rosalie twisted in her chair so that her back was to him. He leaned forward, shifting into a crouch.

Allow me, I suggested.

He paused, raising one eyebrow.

Silently, I lifted my doggy bowl off the floor. Then, with a quick, powerful flip of my wrist, I threw it into the back of Blondie’s head so hard that—with an earsplitting bang—it smashed flat before it ricocheted across the room and snapped the round top piece off the thick newel post at the foot of the stairs.

Bella twitched but didn’t wake up.

“Dumb blonde,” I muttered.

This is like a crazy fanfic of the Twilight series.

quote:

Rosalie turned her head slowly, and her eyes were blazing.

“You. Got. Food. In. My. Hair.”

That did it.

I busted up. I pulled away from Bella so that I wouldn’t shake her, and laughed so hard that tears ran down my face. From behind the couch, I heard Alice’s tinkling laugh join in.

I wondered why Rosalie didn’t spring. I sort of expected it. But then I realized that my laughing had woken Bella up, though she’d slept right through the real noise.

“What’s so funny?” she mumbled.

“I got food in her hair,” I told her, chortling again.

“I’m not going to forget this, dog,” Rosalie hissed.

“S’not so hard to erase a blonde’s memory,” I countered. “Just blow in her ear.”

“Get some new jokes,” she snapped.

These are the worst people! I don't want to read about them anymore!

quote:

“C’mon, Jake. Leave Rose alo—” Bella broke off mid-sentence and sucked in a sharp breath. In the same second, Edward was leaning over the top of me, ripping the blanket out of the way. She seemed to convulse, her back arching off the sofa.

“He’s just,” she panted, “stretching.”

Her lips were white, and she had her teeth locked together like she was trying to hold back a scream.

Edward put both hands on either side of her face.

“Carlisle?” he called in a tense, low voice.

“Right here,” the doctor said. I hadn’t heard him come in.

“Okay,” Bella said, still breathing hard and shallow. “Think it’s over. Poor kid doesn’t have enough room, that’s all. He’s getting so big.”

It was really hard to take, that adoring tone she used to describe the thing that was tearing her up. Especially after Rosalie’s callousness. Made me wish I could throw something at Bella, too.

If I was Carlisle, familiar with the effects immortal children have on their surrogate parents, I'd be very concerned that this baby is driving Bella and Rosalie insane.

quote:

She didn’t pick up on my mood. “You know, he reminds me of you, Jake,” she said—affectionate tone—still gasping.

“Do not compare me to that thing,” I spit out through my teeth.

“I just meant your growth spurt,” she said, looking like I’d hurt her feelings. Good. “You shot right up. I could watch you getting taller by the minute. He’s like that, too. Growing so fast.”

I bit my tongue to keep from saying what I wanted to say—hard enough that I tasted blood in my mouth. Of course, it would heal before I could swallow. That’s what Bella needed. To be strong like me, to be able to heal.…

This is such a hosed up cast.

quote:

She took an easier breath and then relaxed back into the sofa, her body going limp.

“Hmm,” Carlisle murmured. I looked up, and his eyes were on me.

“What?” I demanded. Edward’s head leaned to one side as he reflected on whatever was in Carlisle’s head.

“You know that I was wondering about the fetus’s genetic makeup, Jacob. About his chromosomes.”

“What of it?”

Yes, what of your wacky science?

quote:

“Well, taking your similarities into consideration—”

“Similarities?” I growled, not appreciating the plural.

“The accelerated growth, and the fact that Alice cannot see either of you.”

I felt my face go blank. I’d forgotten about that other one.

“Well, I wonder if that means that we have an answer. If the similarities are gene-deep.”

“Twenty-four pairs,” Edward muttered under his breath.

“You don’t know that.”

“No. But it’s interesting to speculate,” Carlisle said in a soothing voice.

“Yeah. Just fascinating.”

Bella’s light snore started up again, accenting my sarcasm nicely.

....what?

quote:

They got into it then, quickly taking the genetics conversation to a point where the only words I could understand were the the’s and the and’s. And my own name, of course. Alice joined in, commenting now and then in her chirpy bird voice.

Even though they were talking about me, I didn’t try to figure out the conclusions they were drawing. I had other things on my mind, a few facts I was trying to reconcile.

You may recall this is the exact same thing Bella has done multiple times. Meyer really can't come up with a truly unique voice.

quote:

Fact one, Bella’d said that the creature was protected by something as strong as vampire skin, something that was too impenetrable for ultrasounds, too tough for needles. Fact two, Rosalie’d said they had a plan to deliver the creature safely. Fact three, Edward’d said that—in myths—other monsters like this one would chew their way out of their own mothers.

I shuddered.

And that made a sick kind of sense, because, fact four, not many things could cut through something as strong as vampire skin. The half-creature’s teeth—according to myth—were strong enough. My teeth were strong enough.

And vampire teeth were strong enough.

It was hard to miss the obvious, but I sure wished I could. Because I had a pretty good idea exactly how Rosalie planned to get that thing “safely” out.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

A Real Horse posted:

A more exciting author than Stephanie Meyer.

I'm not sure Stephanie Meyer is aware that gay people exist.

Grammarchist
Jan 28, 2013

I feel like Carlisle is about to start talking about how vampires and werewolves use the 90 percent of the brain that normal people don't. I can't follow his science as it is, so I hope it goes full 90's Discovery Channel wacky.

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous
She was friends with Jake for like 2 months while he was normal and funny and actually supportive. Then he turned into a complete rear end in a top hat and she mourned the loss of her friend. That made sense. I've also had toxic friends, and "breaking up" with them sucks.

But that was like a year ago. At this point in the timeline, he's been an rear end in a top hat for much longer than he was a friend. I don't think they've had a single conversation in the last book and a half that didn't turn into a fight or an argument over his feelings for her. He hates her husband and inlaws and makes every single event in her life, including her wedding, about himself. Why the hell would she want him around?

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

hyperhazard posted:

I don't think they've had a single conversation in the last book and a half that didn't turn into a fight or an argument over his feelings for her.

I think you're absolutely right. Jacob starts out as the perfect boyfriend alternative, then turning into a werewolf causes his entire personality to just do a 180. He goes from the funny, smart, cheerful, kind dude that every woman wants to a brooding ball of repressed anger who repeatedly sexually assaults his crush and mocks her over it. Jacob is only her best friend because Meyer keeps insisting that he is, against all of his behavior.

It's honestly one of the worst character assassinations she pulls, and she pulls them on drat near every character because she can't write organic conflict or complex morality. She takes one of the most kind and normal people in the series and turns him into someone who would be a villain in any other canon, all for the sake of adding drama and trying to force a love triangle that doesn't even exist until Bella goes "Well I enjoyed being raped, so maybe I'm in love with him."

Shwoo
Jul 21, 2011

Rosalie posted:

Giving birth in the middle of a disease-infested swamp with a medicine man smearing sloth spit across your face to drive out the evil spirits was never the safest method.
Yeah, no one ever had working medicine before the Europeans invented it. Especially not in one of the most biologically diverse continents in the world.

SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL
Feb 21, 2006

Holy Moly! DARKSEID IS!

Given Rosalie’s background a racist, ignorant screed against indigenous peoples is the most in-character thing she’s said in many, many chapters. I’m betting Meyer didn’t intend it that way.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1V3JW4HeBs

Jasper was my first thought when I saw this and I hate that so much

Lysistrata
Sep 12, 2003
Anyone who truly believes he has friends is a fool.
Cleolinda did some pretty entertaining readthroughs of the books that come from a perspective of enjoyment laced with criticism. Along with jokes, she (also) (thank you chitoryu12!) has some interesting commentary on the ideas and audience impact. This quote is from her first blog about the book, back before the others were released, where she muses on how Edward is a stand-in for how teenage girls see teenage boys:


quote:

The real question on a girl's mind is, "What, other than sex, is he thinking about? What, other than sex, do I have to offer someone I'm crazy about?" And if you're a teenage girl with low self-esteem, the answer you're going to come up with to that second question is going to be, "I don't have anything, because I'm not pretty or special or worthy, so if I don't want to immediately put out, I have nothing, and I have no chance." The obvious answer being "sex" actually makes it harder, because you've got that looming in front of you, and maybe a kind of despair--are you going to have to give in if you want a boy to like you? What if you aren't ready? What if you're scared?

Enter Edward Cullen and his bizarro moodswings. Edward is everything that is confusing about the opposite sex writ large; I find it particularly telling that his first encounter with Bella makes her think that he hates her. The entire buildup to their first kiss is this love/hate push-pull of trying to figure out what he's thinking, and it turns out the whole time he was trying to figure out what she was thinking. [...] Edward and Bella then settle down to wrestle with their various "hungers." But Edward struggles manfully with both his hungers and hers--he's always the one to pull away when either he or Bella goes too far. [...] Sex is possible, and a forbidden thrill to contemplate, but it's not a danger: you're safe with Edward, because he loves you just that much, and he's never going to pressure you because he wants to protect you from himself.

I had meant to post this back when we covered the "honeymoon" because some of what was said then touched on these ideas from a different angle. Of course, life got in the way, lol

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Chapter 16: Too-Much-Information Alert

quote:

I took off early, long before sunrise was due. I’d gotten just a little bit of uneasy sleep leaning against the side of the sofa. Edward woke me when Bella’s face was flushed, and he took my spot to cool her back down. I stretched and decided I was rested enough to get some work done.

“Thank you,” Edward said quietly, seeing my plans. “If the route is clear, they’ll go today.”

“I’ll let you know.”

It felt good to get back to my animal self. I was stiff from sitting still for so long. I extended my stride, working out the kinks.

That's a good way to describe how Stephenie Meyer got her ideas for this story!

quote:

Morning, Jacob, Leah greeted me.

Good, you’re up. How long’s Seth been out?

Not out yet
, Seth thought sleepily. Almost there. What do you need?

You think you got another hour in you?


Sure thing. No problem. Seth got to his feet right away, shaking out his fur.

And I bet we'll see every goddamn second of it.

quote:

Let’s make the deep run, I told Leah. Seth, take the perimeter.

Gotcha
. Seth broke into an easy jog.

Off on another vampire errand, Leah grumbled.

You got a problem with that?

Of course not. I just
love to coddle those darling leeches.

Good. Let’s see how fast we can run.

Okay, I’m definitely up for that!


Leah was on the far western rim of the perimeter. Rather than cut close to the Cullens’ house, she stuck to the circle as she raced around to meet me. I sprinted off straight east, knowing that even with the head start, she’d be passing me soon if I took it easy for even a second.

Nose to the ground, Leah. This isn’t a race, it’s a reconnaissance mission.

I can do both and still kick your butt.

"I really should have been the protagonist instead."

quote:

I gave her that one. I know.

She laughed.

We took a winding path through the eastern mountains. It was a familiar route. We’d run these mountains when the vampires had left a year ago, making it part of our patrol route to better protect the people here. Then we’d pulled back the lines when the Cullens returned. This was their treaty land.

But that fact would probably mean nothing to Sam now. The treaty was dead. The question today was how thin he was willing to spread his force. Was he looking for stray Cullens to poach on their land or not? Had Jared spoken the truth or taken advantage of the silence between us?

We got deeper and deeper into the mountains without finding any trace of the pack. Fading vampire trails were everywhere, but the scents were familiar now. I was breathing them in all day long.

I found a heavy, somewhat recent concentration on one particular trail—all of them coming and going here except for Edward. Some reason for gathering that must have been forgotten when Edward brought his dying pregnant wife home. I gritted my teeth. Whatever it was, it had nothing to do with me.

What this is foreshadowing has extremely little relevance to the plot and it's not a problem if you forget about it.

quote:

Leah didn’t push herself past me, though she could have now. I was paying more attention to each new scent than I was to the speed contest. She kept to my right side, running with me rather than racing against me.

We’re getting pretty far out here, she commented.

Oh, she's quoting her editor now?

quote:

Yeah. If Sam was hunting strays, we should have crossed his trail by now.

Makes more sense right now for him to bunker down in La Push,
Leah thought. He knows we’re giving the bloodsuckers three extra sets of eyes and legs. He’s not going to be able to surprise them.

This was just a precaution, really.

Wouldn’t want our precious parasites taking unnecessary chances.

Nope
, I agreed, ignoring the sarcasm.

You’ve changed so much, Jacob. Talk about one-eighties.

Yes, that's the whole problem with everyone's characters!

quote:

You’re not exactly the same Leah I’ve always known and loved, either.

True. Am I less annoying than Paul now?

Amazingly… yes.

Ah, sweet success.

Congrats.

Yes, is the girl who had her trauma and emotions trampled less annoying than the bully who eats all your food and then tries to decapitate you when you glare at him?

quote:

We ran in silence again then. It was probably time to turn around, but neither of us wanted to. It felt nice to run like this. We’d been staring at the same small circle of a trail for too long. It felt good to stretch our muscles and take the rugged terrain. We weren’t in a huge hurry, so I thought maybe we should hunt on the way back. Leah was pretty hungry.

Yum, yum, she thought sourly.

It’s all in your head, I told her. That’s the way wolves eat. It’s natural. It tastes fine. If you didn’t think about it from a human perspective—

Forget the pep talk, Jacob. I’ll hunt. I don’t have to like it.

Sure, sure,
I agreed easily. It wasn’t my business if she wanted to make things harder for herself.

Can they not just...go to the store? Ask the Cullens for some cash to buy McDonalds in town?

quote:

She didn’t add anything for a few minutes; I started thinking about turning back.

Thank you, Leah suddenly told me in a much different tone.

For?

For letting me be. For letting me stay. You’ve been nicer than I had any right to expect, Jacob
.

Great, now we're at the part where the put-upon girl starts saying that it was all her fault that everyone abused and ignored her and the protagonist is a true hero for showing her the barest hints of kindness.

quote:

Er, no problem. Actually, I mean that. I don’t mind having you here like I thought I would.

She snorted, but it was a playful sound. What a glowing commendation!

Don’t let it go to your head.


Okay—if you don’t let this go to yours. She paused for a second. I think you make a good Alpha. Not in the same way Sam does, but in your own way. You’re worth following, Jacob.

My mind went blank with surprise. It took me a second to recover enough to respond.

Er, thanks. Not totally sure I’ll be able to stop that one from going to my head, though. Where did that come from?

"Author fiat. It's been like, 2 days."

quote:

She didn’t answer right away, and I followed the wordless direction of her thoughts. She was thinking about the future—about what I’d said to Jared the other morning. About how the time would be up soon, and then I’d go back to the forest. About how I’d promised that she and Seth would return to the pack when the Cullens were gone.…

I want to stay with you, she told me.

The shock shot through my legs, locking my joints. She blew past me and then put on the brakes. Slowly, she walked back to where I was frozen in place.

I won’t be a pain, I swear. I won’t follow you around. You can go wherever you want, and I’ll go where I want. You’ll only have to put up with me when we’re both wolves. She paced back and forth in front of me, swishing her long gray tail nervously. And, as I’m planning on quitting as soon as I can manage it… maybe that won’t be so often.

I didn’t know what to say.

I’m happier now, as a part of your pack, than I have been in years.

Let's not forget that Jacob has been a dick to her for most of this time. He's only reduced his outright threats to low-level snarking at her in every conversation. He hasn't displayed any real kindness to her except letting her leave Sam's pack and not directly overriding her will to force her onto his team.

How hosed up was Leah's situation that this is the modicum of kindness that causes her to find happiness?

quote:

I want to stay, too, Seth thought quietly. I hadn’t realized he’d been paying much attention to us as he ran the perimeter. I like this pack.

Hey, now! Seth, this isn’t going to be a pack much longer. I tried to put my thoughts together so they would convince him. We’ve got a purpose now, but when… after that’s over, I’m just going to go wolf. Seth, you need a purpose. You’re a good kid. You’re the kind of person who always has a crusade. And there’s no way you’re leaving La Push now. You’re going to graduate from high school and do something with your life. You’re going to take care of Sue. My issues are not going to mess up your future.

Do the wolves even have a choice, though? It's been established that their aging is basically frozen to keep them youthful guardians for years (which is also part of the justification for imprinting on a child). If Seth graduates high school, will he still be stuck as an unusually ripped and tall teenager for decades?

quote:

But—

Jacob is right
, Leah seconded.

You’re agreeing with me?

Of course. But none of that applies to me. I was on my way out, anyway. I’ll get a job somewhere away from La Push. Maybe take some courses at a community college. Get into yoga and meditation to work on my temper issues.… And stay a part of this pack for the sake of my mental well-being. Jacob—you can see how that makes sense, right? I won’t bother you, you won’t bother me, everyone is happy.

The best thing for Leah's well-being would be to abandon these rear end in a top hat jocks and never look back.

quote:

I turned back and started loping slowly toward the west. This is a bit much to deal with, Leah. Let me think about it, ’kay? Sure. Take your time. It took us longer to make the run back. I wasn’t trying for speed. I was just trying to concentrate enough that I wouldn’t plow headfirst into a tree. Seth was grumbling a little bit in the back of my head, but I was able to ignore him. He knew I was right. He wasn’t going to abandon his mom. He would go back to La Push and protect the tribe like he should.

But I couldn’t see Leah doing that. And that was just plain scary.

A pack of the two of us? No matter the physical distance, I couldn’t imagine the… the intimacy of that situation. I wondered if she’d really thought it through, or if she was just desperate to stay free.

Leah didn’t say anything as I chewed it over. It was like she was trying to prove how easy it would be if it was just us.

Maybe try not being a jackass to her 24/7, Jacob. That'll make it real easy to get along.

quote:

We ran into a herd of black-tailed deer just as the sun was coming up, brightening the clouds a little bit behind us. Leah sighed internally but didn’t hesitate. Her lunge was clean and efficient—graceful, even. She took down the largest one, the buck, before the startled animal fully understood the danger.

Not to be outdone, I swooped down on the next largest deer, snapping her neck between my jaws quickly, so she wouldn’t feel unnecessary pain. I could feel Leah’s disgust warring with her hunger, and I tried to make it easier for her by letting the wolf in me have my head. I’d lived all-wolf for long enough that I knew how to be the animal completely, to see his way and think his way. I let the practical instincts take over, letting her feel that, too. She hesitated for a second, but then, tentatively, she seemed to reach out with her mind and try to see my way. It felt very strange—our minds were more closely linked than they had ever been before, because we both were trying to think together.

Strange, but it helped her. Her teeth cut through the fur and skin of her kill’s shoulder, tearing away a thick slab of streaming flesh. Rather than wince away as her human thoughts wanted to, she let her wolf-self react instinctively. It was kind of a numbing thing, a thoughtless thing. It let her eat in peace.

I feel like, as human beings, we've invented many solutions to food that don't require giving into animal instinct and eating raw meat!

quote:

It was easy for me to do the same. And I was glad I hadn’t forgotten this. This would be my life again soon.

Was Leah going to be a part of that life? A week ago, I would’ve found that idea beyond horrifying. I wouldn’t’ve been able to stand it. But I knew her better now. And, relieved from the constant pain, she wasn’t the same wolf. Not the same girl.

Almost like the only thing she needed was for people to shut up about her emotions!

quote:

We ate together until we both were full.

Thanks, she told me later as she was cleaning her muzzle and paws against the wet grass. I didn’t bother; it had just started to drizzle and we had to swim the river again on our way back. I’d get clean enough. That wasn’t so bad, thinking your way.

You’re welcome.


Seth was dragging when we hit the perimeter. I told him to get some sleep; Leah and I would take over the patrol. Seth’s mind faded into unconsciousness just seconds later.

Mercifully avoiding another long dialogue scene.

quote:

You headed back to the bloodsuckers? Leah asked.

Maybe.

It’s hard for you to be there, but hard to stay away, too. I know how that feels.

You know, Leah, you might want to think a little bit about the future, about what you really want to do. My head is not going to be the happiest place on earth. And you’ll have to suffer right along with me
.



quote:

She thought about how to answer me. Wow, this is going to sound bad. But, honestly, it will be easier to deal with your pain than face mine.

You're right! That does sound bad!

quote:

Fair enough.

I know it’s going to be bad for you, Jacob. I understand that—maybe better than you think. I don’t like her, but… she’s your Sam. She’s everything you want and everything you can’t have.

I couldn’t answer.

I know it’s worse for you. At least Sam is happy. At least he’s alive and well. I love him enough that I want that. I want him to have what’s best for him. She sighed. I just don’t want to stick around to watch.

Do we need to talk about this?

I think we do. Because I want you to know that I won’t make it worse for you. Hell, maybe I’ll even help. I wasn’t
born a compassionless shrew. I used to be sort of nice, you know.

My memory doesn’t go that far back.


We both laughed once.

Remember, it's okay to brush off a character's legitimate pain as long as she calls herself bad for it!

quote:

I’m sorry about this, Jacob. I’m sorry you’re in pain. I’m sorry it’s getting worse and not better.

Thanks, Leah.


She thought about the things that were worse, the black pictures in my head, while I tried to tune her out without much success. She was able to look at them with some distance, some perspective, and I had to admit that this was helpful. I could imagine that maybe I would be able to see it that way, too, in a few years.

She saw the funny side of the daily irritations that came from hanging out around vampires. She liked my ragging on Rosalie, chuckling internally and even running through a few blonde jokes in her mind that I might be able to work in. But then her thoughts turned serious, lingering on Rosalie’s face in a way that confused me.

You know what’s crazy? she asked.

Well, almost everything is crazy right now. But what do you mean?

That blond vampire you hate so much—I totally get her perspective.


For a second I thought she was making a joke that was in very poor taste. And then, when I realized she was serious, the fury that ripped through me was hard to control. It was a good thing we’d spread out to run our watch. If she’d been within biting distance…

Oh hey, nothing has actually changed! He'll still brutally maul you on an impulse!

quote:

Hold up! Let me explain!

Don’t want to hear it. I’m outta here.

Wait! Wait!
she pleaded as I tried to calm myself enough to phase back. C’mon, Jake!

Leah, this isn’t really the best way to convince me that I want to spend more time with you in the future.

Yeesh! What an overreaction. You don’t even know what I’m talking about
.

It is refreshing to see someone finally tell Jacob to shut the gently caress up and listen to people.

quote:

So what are you talking about?

And then she was suddenly the pain-hardened Leah from before. I’m talking about being a genetic dead end, Jacob.

The vicious edge to her words left me floundering. I hadn’t expected to have my anger trumped.

I don’t understand.

You
would, if you weren’t just like the rest of them. If my “female stuff”—she thought the words with a hard, sarcastic tone—didn’t send you running for cover just like any stupid male, so you could actually pay attention to what it all means.

Oh
.

Yeah, so none of us like to think about that stuff with her. Who would? Of course I remembered Leah’s panic that first month after she joined the pack—and I remembered cringing away from it just like everyone else. Because she couldn’t be pregnant—not unless there was some really freaky religious immaculate crap going on. She hadn’t been with anyone since Sam. And then, when the weeks dragged on and nothing turned into more nothing, she’d realized that her body wasn’t following the normal patterns anymore. The horror—what was she now? Had her body changed because she’d become a werewolf? Or had she become a werewolf because her body was wrong? The only female werewolf in the history of forever. Was that because she wasn’t as female as she should be?

None of us had wanted to deal with that breakdown. Obviously, it wasn’t like we could empathize.

And there we have a one-two punch of "the implication that being able to have kids is the only thing making you a woman" and "something really important to the character and the lore that casually gets inserted in a paragraph when it becomes relevant."

quote:

You know why Sam thinks we imprint, she thought, calmer now.

Sure. To carry on the line.

Right. To make a bunch of new little werewolves. Survival of the species, genetic override. You’re drawn to the person who gives you the best chance to pass on the wolf gene
.

Somehow this makes imprinting even creepier, knowing that it's a coldly practical means of guaranteeing reproduction.

quote:

I waited for her to tell me where she was going with this.

If I was any good for that, Sam would have been drawn to me.

Her pain was enough that I broke stride under it.

But I’m not. There’s something wrong with me. I don’t have the ability to pass on the gene, apparently, despite my stellar bloodlines. So I become a freak—the girlie-wolf—good for nothing else. I’m a genetic dead end and we both know it.

And again, the other wolves told her "Suck it up, we don't give a poo poo" and blamed her for feeling bad. The loving Volturi have better people skills.

quote:

We do not, I argued with her. That’s just Sam’s theory. Imprinting happens, but we don’t know why. Billy thinks it’s something else.

I know, I know. He thinks you’re imprinting to make stronger wolves. Because you and Sam are such humongous monsters—bigger than our fathers. But either way, I’m still not a candidate. I’m… I’m menopausal. I’m twenty years old and I’m menopausal.


Ugh. I so didn’t want to have this conversation. You don’t know that, Leah. It’s probably just the whole frozen-in-time thing. When you quit your wolf and start getting older again, I’m sure things will… er… pick right back up.

I might think that—except that no one’s imprinting on me, notwithstanding my impressive pedigree. You know, she added thoughtfully, if you weren’t around, Seth would probably have the best claim to being Alpha—through his blood, at least. Of course, no one would ever consider me.…

Also, this means imprinting implicitly takes homosexuality out of the Wolf Pack altogether.

quote:

You really want to imprint, or be imprinted on, or whichever? I demanded. What’s wrong with going out and falling in love like a normal person, Leah? Imprinting is just another way of getting your choices taken away from you.

Sam, Jared, Paul, Quil… they don’t seem to mind.

None of them
have a mind of their own.

I'm sure the book will do nothing to tell Jacob that imprinting is actually cool and good!

quote:

You don’t want to imprint?

Hell, no!

That’s just because you’re already in love with
her. That would go away, you know, if you imprinted. You wouldn’t have to hurt over her anymore.

Do you want to forget the way you feel about Sam?

She deliberated for a moment. I think I do.

I sighed. She was in a healthier place than I was.

But back to my original point, Jacob. I understand why your blond vampire is so cold—in the figurative sense. She’s focused. She’s got her eyes on the prize, right? Because you always want the very most what you can never, ever have.

Before this line of thought continues, I want to bring it back to the problem I've brought up with the characters' actions and the author's intent not really matching reality.

Rosalie wanting a baby because of losing her dream of having a family to vampirism is completely understandable. What is not understandable is that this reasonable desire would become so protective as to literally be a hissing cat trying to kill anyone who steps too close to Bella. That is far closer to Carlisle's education on immortal children causing a supernatural desire to violently protect them.

What this conversation is doing feels more like Meyer realizing that, and trying to use a "women's intuition" scene to explain that Rosalie's terrifying behavior is actually completely normal and justified.

quote:

You would act like Rosalie? You would murder someone—because that’s what she’s doing, making sure no one interferes with Bella’s death—you would do that to have a baby? Since when are you a breeder?

Oh God, he's an r/childfree poster.

quote:

I just want the options I don’t have, Jacob. Maybe, if there was nothing wrong with me, I would never give it a thought.

You would kill for that? I demanded, not letting her escape my question.

That’s not what she’s doing. I think it’s more like she’s living vicariously. And… if Bella asked me to help her with this… She paused, considering. Even though I don’t think too much of her, I’d probably do the same as the bloodsucker.

"I won't stop calling her family 'leeches' and refusing to even eat their food, though. That would be too much."

quote:

A loud snarl ripped through my teeth.

Because, if it was turned around, I’d want Bella to do that for me. And so would Rosalie. We’d both do it her way.

Ugh! You’re as bad as they are!

That’s the funny thing about knowing you can’t have something. It makes you desperate.

And… that’s my limit. Right there. This conversation is over.

Fine.


It wasn’t enough that she’d agreed to stop. I wanted a stronger termination than that.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 1, 2020

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous
There's...a lot to unpack in that chapter.

Jake's absolutely right that imprinting is creepy as hell. Even if it helps you forget about your ex, it does so by wiping out any free will. Imagine how easy it would be to take advantage of someone who was forced to love you no matter what. "Do the dishes or I'll leave." "Buy me an Audi R8 or I'll leave." "Break off all contact with your family and friends or I'll leave." "Have sex now or I'll leave." That's some Ella Enchanted poo poo right there.

Hell, even take it to extremes: "I know for a fact that you love me more than our children, so kill them or I'll leave."

Grammarchist
Jan 28, 2013

I know trans issues weren't really mainstream at the time, but for half a second I thought that's where Meyer was going with Leah feeling that her body was "wrong" and was horrified at how that would be handled.

Lemony
Jul 27, 2010

Now With Fresh Citrus Scent!
Wait, I just realized something. If imprinting works the way they have implied, why is Paul still acting like a violent lovely houseguest when he's at Billy's place? Presumably Jacob's sister would prefer he not be a dick to her family and isn't imprinting supposed to basically make you mold yourself into a perfect partner so that the other person can't help but fall in love with you?

Or maybe Rachel just hates her family, I dunno.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

hyperhazard posted:

There's...a lot to unpack in that chapter.

Jake's absolutely right that imprinting is creepy as hell. Even if it helps you forget about your ex, it does so by wiping out any free will. Imagine how easy it would be to take advantage of someone who was forced to love you no matter what. "Do the dishes or I'll leave." "Buy me an Audi R8 or I'll leave." "Break off all contact with your family and friends or I'll leave." "Have sex now or I'll leave." That's some Ella Enchanted poo poo right there.

Hell, even take it to extremes: "I know for a fact that you love me more than our children, so kill them or I'll leave."

Considering Sam nearly killed Emily, I'm thinking the imprinter will be fine.

Imagine how easy it would be to take advantage of someone when you are super strong, forever youthful, and can turn into a monster. "I'll die if you leave me, if you try to leave me, I'll snap and you know what I could do."

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Is there a tally for all the times Leah get poo poo on? It feels bizarre for one character to endure so much grief in a story that isn't a kafkaesque comedy.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Lemony posted:

Wait, I just realized something. If imprinting works the way they have implied, why is Paul still acting like a violent lovely houseguest when he's at Billy's place? Presumably Jacob's sister would prefer he not be a dick to her family and isn't imprinting supposed to basically make you mold yourself into a perfect partner so that the other person can't help but fall in love with you?

Or maybe Rachel just hates her family, I dunno.

Most likely it's specifically "perfect partner to your partner" and provides no obligations to be a decent person to anyone else without their demands to.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008
Imprinting is such a bad concept to me because it's almost like an acknowledged, built in conceit of true love as we see in media all the time, but like it's been turned into an rpg mechanic. You now have the imprinted trait, you are obsessed with someone and will do anything for them. Why? Who knows.

But then, obviously, it's too one-sided, so Meyer has the recipient of the affection inevitably fall in love too. That is more like the actual trope, where they are just falling in love with their imprintee(?) because the person has such overwhelming feelings for them or because it's fated (by the storyteller), rather than actually involving any genuine affection or even an attraction to their personality traits or their character. Even though everyone is inevitably super sexy and good looking, they don't even fall in love out of physical desire either.

As usual, she doesn't effective follow through on the idea and it feels so strange to me that the person who doesn't have a paranormal compulsion to fall in love still, inevitably, falls in love with whoever imprinted on them. They just automatically become a couple, and both of them will forgive any fault in the other, struggle through any adversity for each other without actually having real reasons for both partners to have that kind of dedication to each other.

True love is pretty old hat at this point, but Twilight manages to suck even the slightest bit of compelling interest out of it, somehow!

Lemony
Jul 27, 2010

Now With Fresh Citrus Scent!
Right, I'm just surprised she hasn't told Paul to stop being such a dink.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Lemony posted:

Right, I'm just surprised she hasn't told Paul to stop being such a dink.

Maybe she thinks that’s cute.

MrNemo
Aug 26, 2010

"I just love beeting off"

Maybe she's terrified any kind of criticism will pricing a violent outburst and he'll tear her father's leg off. But then of course he'll see how upset that makes her and he'll feel real bad and she won't bear to be able to leave him because it's not his fault he got angry. It's the werewolf thing and she was really kind of harsh expecting him to not eat everything in the fridge. So she'll be extra super careful in three future because she knows he really does care.

After all he's imprinted, that's love.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Up Circle posted:

Imprinting is such a bad concept to me because it's almost like an acknowledged, built in conceit of true love as we see in media all the time, but like it's been turned into an rpg mechanic. You now have the imprinted trait, you are obsessed with someone and will do anything for them. Why? Who knows.

But then, obviously, it's too one-sided, so Meyer has the recipient of the affection inevitably fall in love too. That is more like the actual trope, where they are just falling in love with their imprintee(?) because the person has such overwhelming feelings for them or because it's fated (by the storyteller), rather than actually involving any genuine affection or even an attraction to their personality traits or their character. Even though everyone is inevitably super sexy and good looking, they don't even fall in love out of physical desire either.

As usual, she doesn't effective follow through on the idea and it feels so strange to me that the person who doesn't have a paranormal compulsion to fall in love still, inevitably, falls in love with whoever imprinted on them. They just automatically become a couple, and both of them will forgive any fault in the other, struggle through any adversity for each other without actually having real reasons for both partners to have that kind of dedication to each other.

True love is pretty old hat at this point, but Twilight manages to suck even the slightest bit of compelling interest out of it, somehow!

The idea of True Love also runs into the huge problem of sexual orientation. Imprinting seems to just delete free will and ignore the whole concept of sexual orientation.

SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL
Feb 21, 2006

Holy Moly! DARKSEID IS!

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Is there a tally for all the times Leah get poo poo on? It feels bizarre for one character to endure so much grief in a story that isn't a kafkaesque comedy.

The blog “das sporking” had a count literally called “Let’s poo poo on Leah” and per their reading there are 108 instances in Breaking Dawn, with 98 in Jacob’s section. They also assessed that Leah is the only character with a genuine narrative arc, having to face her struggles and experience change as a result (regardless of her story’s quality).

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous

Dienes posted:

Considering Sam nearly killed Emily, I'm thinking the imprinter will be fine.

Imagine how easy it would be to take advantage of someone when you are super strong, forever youthful, and can turn into a monster. "I'll die if you leave me, if you try to leave me, I'll snap and you know what I could do."

That's a good point, and very very depressing. Hell Jacob's halfway there -- he had to be restrained during the wedding to stop from hulking out and killing people. It's only a short jump to "Be with me or I'll hurt your husband and family."

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Remember in the last two books how many times Jacob just barely restrained himself from turning into a giant wolf to kill Bella? Usually over a pretty innocuous comment or fact? Like they’d be having a serious conversation about what’s going on and he’d start transforming in a rage out of nowhere.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

quote:

I was only about a mile from where I’d left my clothes, so I phased back to human and walked. I didn’t think about our conversation. Not because there wasn’t anything to think about, but because I couldn’t stand it. I would not see it that way—but it was harder to keep from doing that when Leah had put the thoughts and emotions straight into my head.

Yeah, I wasn’t running with her when this was finished. She could go be miserable in La Push. One little Alpha command before I left for good wasn’t going to kill anybody.

Remember how we were supposed to think Jacob was a cool dude who would never use his Alpha powers to suppress anyone's will and that's why Seth and Leah are so loyal and think he's so much better than Sam? Yeah that lasted 2 days.

quote:

It was real early when I got to the house. Bella was probably still asleep. I figured I’d poke my head in, see what was going on, give ’em the green light to go hunting, and then find a patch of grass soft enough to sleep on while human. I wasn’t phasing back until Leah was asleep.

But there was a lot of low mumbling going on inside the house, so maybe Bella wasn’t sleeping. And then I heard the machinery sound from upstairs again—the X-ray? Great. It looked like day four on the countdown was starting off with a bang.

Alice opened the door for me before I could walk in.

She nodded. “Hey, wolf.”

“Hey, shortie. What’s going on upstairs?” The big room was empty—all the murmurs were on the second floor.

She shrugged her pointy little shoulders. “Maybe another break.” She tried to say the words casually, but I could see the flames in the very back of her eyes. Edward and I weren’t the only ones who were burning over this. Alice loved Bella, too.

“Another rib?” I asked hoarsely.

“No. Pelvis this time.”

Funny how it kept hitting me, like each new thing was a surprise. When was I going to stop being surprised? Each new disaster seemed kinda obvious in hindsight.

Stop summarizing my thread for me!

quote:

Alice was staring at my hands, watching them tremble.

Then we were listening to Rosalie’s voice upstairs.

“See, I told you I didn’t hear a crack. You need your ears checked, Edward.”

There was no answer.

Alice made a face. “Edward’s going to end up ripping Rose into small pieces, I think. I’m surprised she doesn’t see that. Or maybe she thinks Emmett will be able to stop him.”

This cast is incredibly violent. Remember this was a series for young girls.

quote:

“I’ll take Emmett,” I offered. “You can help Edward with the ripping part.”

Alice half-smiled.

The procession came down the stairs then—Edward had Bella this time. She was gripping her cup of blood in both hands, and her face was white. I could see that, though he compensated for every tiny movement of his body to keep from jostling her, she was hurting.

“Jake,” she whispered, and she smiled through the pain.

I stared at her, saying nothing.

Edward placed Bella carefully on her couch and sat on the floor by her head. I wondered briefly why they didn’t leave her upstairs, and then decided at once that it must be Bella’s idea. She’d want to act like things were normal, avoid the hospital setup. And he was humoring her. Naturally.

I remember seeing people try to defend Bella as a character by saying that she's incredibly self-sacrificing and is basically willing to let herself die for others in every book. What I've learned is that she's exclusively self-sacrificing in the stupidest ways and every time she tries to kill herself is because of completely avoidable circumstances, usually from someone's impulses getting the better of them. It's a cast of hosed up people making bad choices and one person wildly flinging herself onto the fire every few months.

quote:

Carlisle came down slowly, the last one, his face creased with worry. It made him look old enough to be a doctor for once.

“Carlisle,” I said. “We went halfway to Seattle. There’s no sign of the pack. You’re good to go.”

The distances and times in these books never make any sense. Halfway from Forks to Seattle as the crow flies is almost 50 miles, but the previous half of the chapter makes it feel like they didn't even leave the immediate area.

quote:

“Thank you, Jacob. This is good timing. There’s much that we need.” His black eyes flickered to the cup that Bella was holding so tight.

“Honestly, I think you’re safe to take more than three. I’m pretty positive that Sam is concentrating on La Push.”

Carlisle nodded in agreement. It surprised me how willingly he took my advice. “If you think so. Alice, Esme, Jasper, and I will go. Then Alice can take Emmett and Rosa—”

“Not a chance,” Rosalie hissed. “Emmett can go with you now.”

“You should hunt,” Carlisle said in a gentle voice.

His tone didn’t soften hers. “I’ll hunt when he does,” she growled, jerking her head toward Edward and then flipping her hair back.

So she can kill him preemptively?

quote:

Carlisle sighed.

Jasper and Emmett were down the stairs in a flash, and Alice joined them by the glass back door in the same second. Esme flitted to Alice’s side.

Carlisle put his hand on my arm. The icy touch did not feel good, but I didn’t jerk away. I held still, half in surprise, and half because I didn’t want to hurt his feelings.

“Thank you,” he said again, and then he darted out the door with the other four. My eyes followed them as they flew across the lawn and then disappeared before I took another breath. Their needs must have been more urgent than I’d imagined.

There was no sound for a minute. I could feel someone glaring at me, and I knew who it would be. I’d been planning to take off and get some Z’s, but the chance to ruin Rosalie’s morning seemed too good to pass up.

I'm sure this passage will be incredibly entertaining and not at all annoying.

quote:

So I sauntered over to the armchair next to the one Rosalie had and settled in, sprawling out so that my head was tilted toward Bella and my left foot was near Rosalie’s face.

“Ew. Someone put the dog out,” she murmured, wrinkling her nose.

“Have you heard this one, Psycho? How do a blonde’s brain cells die?”

She didn’t say anything.

“Well?” I asked. “Do you know the punch line or not?”

I don't want to know it.

quote:

She looked pointedly at the TV and ignored me.

“Has she heard it?” I asked Edward.

There was no humor on his tense face—he didn’t move his eyes from Bella. But he said, “No.”

“Awesome. So you’ll enjoy this, bloodsucker—a blonde’s brain cells die alone.”

This is so cringey. I can't handle it.

quote:

Rosalie still didn’t look at me. “I have killed a hundred times more often than you have, you disgusting beast. Don’t forget that.”

Okay, I'll give her that one.

quote:

“Someday, Beauty Queen, you’re going to get tired of just threatening me. I’m really looking forward to that.”

“Enough, Jacob,” Bella said.

I looked down, and she was scowling at me. It looked like yesterday’s good mood was long gone.

Well, I didn’t want to bug her. “You want me to take off?” I offered.

Yes! Please leave the story forever!

quote:

Before I could hope—or fear—that she’d finally gotten tired of me, she blinked, and her frown disappeared. She seemed totally shocked that I would come to that conclusion. “No! Of course not.”

I sighed, and I heard Edward sigh very quietly, too. I knew he wished she’d get over me, too. Too bad he’d never ask her to do anything that might make her unhappy.

“You look tired,” Bella commented.

“Dead beat,” I admitted.

I’d like to beat you dead,” Rosalie muttered, too low for Bella to hear.

I just slumped deeper into the chair, getting comfortable. My bare foot dangled closer to Rosalie, and she stiffened. After a few minutes Bella asked Rosalie for a refill. I felt the wind as Rosalie blew upstairs to get her some more blood. It was really quiet. Might as well take a nap, I figured.

I'm just astounded by how much text in this book is useless.

quote:

And then Edward said, “Did you say something?” in a puzzled tone. Strange. Because no one had said anything, and because Edward’s hearing was as good as mine, and he should have known that.

He was staring at Bella, and she was staring back. They both looked confused.

“Me?” she asked after a second. “I didn’t say anything.”

He moved onto his knees, leaning forward over her, his expression suddenly intense in a whole different way. His black eyes focused on her face.

“What are you thinking about right now?”

She stared at him blankly. “Nothing. What’s going on?”

“What were you thinking about a minute ago?” he asked.

“Just… Esme’s island. And feathers.”

Sounded like total gibberish to me, but then she blushed, and I figured I was better off not knowing.

That one would cause him to transform.

quote:

“Say something else,” he whispered.

“Like what? Edward, what’s going on?”

His face changed again, and he did something that made my mouth fall open with a pop. I heard a gasp behind me, and I knew that Rosalie was back, and just as flabbergasted as I was.

Edward, very lightly, put both of his hands against her huge, round stomach.

“The f—” He swallowed. “It… the baby likes the sound of your voice.”

There was one short beat of total silence. I could not move a muscle, even to blink. Then—

Holy crow, you can hear him!” Bella shouted. In the next second, she winced.

That's the most Mormon expletive I've ever heard.

quote:

Edward’s hand moved to the top peak of her belly and gently rubbed the spot where it must have kicked her.

“Shh,” he murmured. “You startled it… him.”

Her eyes got all wide and full of wonder. She patted the side of her stomach. “Sorry, baby.”

Edward was listening hard, his head tilted toward the bulge.

“What’s he thinking now?” she demanded eagerly.

“It… he or she, is…” He paused and looked up into her eyes. His eyes were filled with a similar awe—only his were more careful and grudging. “He’s happy,” Edward said in an incredulous voice.

"Nobody in this series is ever happy!"

quote:

Her breath caught, and it was impossible not to see the fanatical gleam in her eyes. The adoration and the devotion. Big, fat tears overflowed her eyes and ran silently down her face and over her smiling lips.

As he stared at her, his face was not frightened or angry or burning or any of the other expressions he’d worn since their return. He was marveling with her.

“Of course you’re happy, pretty baby, of course you are,” she crooned, rubbing her stomach while the tears washed her cheeks. “How could you not be, all safe and warm and loved? I love you so much, little EJ, of course you’re happy.”

“What did you call him?” Edward asked curiously.

"No, seriously, what kind of loving name is that?"

quote:

She blushed again. “I sort of named him. I didn’t think you would want… well, you know.”

“EJ?”

“Your father’s name was Edward, too.”

“Yes, it was. What—?” He paused and then said, “Hmm.”

He just realized what the "J" stands for.

quote:

“What?”

“He likes my voice, too.”

“Of course he does.” Her tone was almost gloating now. “You have the most beautiful voice in the universe. Who wouldn’t love it?”



quote:

“Do you have a backup plan?” Rosalie asked then, leaning over the back of the sofa with the same wondering, gloating look on her face that was on Bella’s. “What if he’s a she?”

Bella wiped the back of her hand under her wet eyes. “I kicked a few things around. Playing with Renée and Esme. I was thinking… Ruh-nez-may.”

“Ruhnezmay?”

“R-e-n-e-s-m-e-e. Too weird?”

That's the stupidest loving name I've ever heard!

quote:

“No, I like it,” Rosalie assured her. Their heads were close together, gold and mahogany. “It’s beautiful. And one of a kind, so that fits.”

This unbelievably awful name comes from a Mormon tradition of combining the names of the child's grandparents to name them. Meyer, for her part, said that "whether they become a stripper or a lawyer in large part has to do with the name you give them."

quote:

“I still think he’s an Edward.”

Edward was staring off into space, his face blank as he listened.

“What?” Bella asked, her face just glowing away. “What’s he thinking now?”

At first he didn’t answer, and then—shocking all the rest of us again, three distinct and separate gasps—he laid his ear tenderly against her belly.

“He loves you,” Edward whispered, sounding dazed. “He absolutely adores you.”

In that moment, I knew that I was alone. All alone.

I wanted to kick myself when I realized how much I’d been counting on that loathsome vampire. How stupid—as if you could ever trust a leech! Of course he would betray me in the end.

I’d counted on him to be on my side. I’d counted on him to suffer more than I suffered. And, most of all, I’d counted on him to hate that revolting thing killing Bella more than I hated it.

I’d trusted him with that.

Yet now they were together, the two of them bent over the budding, invisible monster with their eyes lit up like a happy family.

At this point, the foreshadowing of immortal children supernaturally making everyone love them so they can kill with impunity is so blatant that it would be extremely bad writing for it to not be the case here.

quote:

And I was all alone with my hatred and the pain that was so bad it was like being tortured. Like being dragged slowly across a bed of razor blades. Pain so bad you’d take death with a smile just to get away from it.

The heat unlocked my frozen muscles, and I was on my feet.

All three of their heads snapped up, and I watched my pain ripple across Edward’s face as he trespassed in my head again.

“Ahh,” he choked.

I didn’t know what I was doing; I stood there, trembling, ready to bolt for the very first escape that I could think of.

Moving like the strike of a snake, Edward darted to a small end table and ripped something from the drawer there. He tossed it at me, and I caught the object reflexively.

“Go, Jacob. Get away from here.” He didn’t say it harshly—he threw the words at me like they were a life preserver. He was helping me find the escape I was dying for.

The object in my hand was a set of car keys.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Forget it Jake, it’s vampire town.

Grammarchist
Jan 28, 2013

IT'S HAPPY.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
What's starting to offend me most is how boring Meyers' use of imprinting and whatnot is. It's just used to arbitrarily pair up characters without needing to write any sort of relationship or even chemistry between them. Just bam, these two are in love, beginning and end of story.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Cythereal posted:

What's starting to offend me most is how boring Meyers' use of imprinting and whatnot is. It's just used to arbitrarily pair up characters without needing to write any sort of relationship or even chemistry between them. Just bam, these two are in love, beginning and end of story.

For that matter, the only imprinting that's even mattered in the long run so far has been Quil and Claire because of what it's trying to set up and justify. Sam and Emily has been horrifying in how much the abuse overtones get brushed off, but Emily has been a virtual non-entity in the story. Kim (Jared's imprintee) only appeared briefly at the bonfire in Eclipse and Rachel (Paul's imprintee) hasn't even appeared at all.

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous

chitoryu12 posted:

That's the stupidest loving name I've ever heard!

You need to find a clip of this scene in the movie, because it's worth watching. She says the name and none of the actors can keep a straight face. (Also, Jake's response is literally "uhhhhh...")

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Cythereal posted:

What's starting to offend me most is how boring Meyers' use of imprinting and whatnot is. It's just used to arbitrarily pair up characters without needing to write any sort of relationship or even chemistry between them. Just bam, these two are in love, beginning and end of story.
Looking at it through the lens of a devout Mormon really does make it make more sense, I think. Obviously imprintees love their imprinters because they're soul mates! Just like Alice and Jasper hooked up immediately because Alice knew it was predestined, and Rosalie fell in love with a mangled Emmett immediately!

This isn't exactly to bash Mormonism, it's got a range of extreme to casual believers like any religion and Mormons can be progressive as well as conservative, but the specific race and gender relations in Twilight make a lot of sense if you consider Meyer's cultural background and the fact that it's basically wish fulfillment for her. Like historically Mormonism is very white-dominated but the doctrine when it comes to Native Americans is specifically super racist. These aren't problems that are exclusive to Mormonism by any means, but there's specific quirks.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

That said my favorite Mormon Quirk in Twilight is how everyone dresses like a Mormon, despite explicitly not being Mormon.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?
Why do all the Native Americans have very Biblical names? Jacob, Seth, Leah, Rachel.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

HopperUK posted:

Why do all the Native Americans have very Biblical names? Jacob, Seth, Leah, Rachel.

Mormonism has some hosed up teachings on the history of Native Americans.

hyperhazard
Dec 4, 2011

I am the one lascivious
With magic potion niveous

HopperUK posted:

Why do all the Native Americans have very Biblical names? Jacob, Seth, Leah, Rachel.

She named a lot of side characters after people she knows irl. Which is why I'm still convinced that it was real-life Leah that leaked her pages.

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chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Okay, so Mormons and racism.

Part of the Mormon mythology is that there were three ancient tribes who traveled from Israel after the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem around 600 BC and settled America thousands of years ago:

* The Jaredites, descended from Jared (a sixth-generation descendant of Adam and Eve and the father of Enoch in the Book of Genesis). Mormon scholars place them in Mesoamerica, possibly as the Olmecs.

* The Mulekites, descended from Mulek (supposedly the only surviving son of Zedekiah, the last King of Judah) and established their capital in the unknown location of Zarahemla (unknown because it didn't exist).

* The Nephites, descended from Nephi (who I'm pretty sure is a complete invention for the book) who settled in Central America.

When Nephi believed his brothers, Laman and Lemuel, planned on killing him, he and his followers fled into the wilderness. Laman's followers remained as the Lamanites. Most importantly, Nephi is the one who engraved their history first on brass plates.

The Lamanites and Nephites had a fierce war, in which the Lamanites turned away from God and became decadent. While a visit from Jesus temporarily created peace and united the tribes, a breakaway group of Lamanites 84 years later revolted and exterminated the Nephites. For their wickedness and corruption, they were punished with "a skin of blackness" as a mark of their evil and to ensure the Nephites would not associate or breed with them.

You can see where this is going.

Joseph Smith, who "found" the golden plates buried under a nearby hill telling the true history of America after being visited by the angel Moroni, was a supporter of slavery and claimed that the Book of Mormon provided justification for the enslavement of Africans. While he would eventually soften and become anti-slavery, Brigham Young (his successor and the founder of Salt Lake City) enacted a total ban on black men becoming Mormon priests. The Mormons believe the Lamanites to be the ancestors of Native Americans, Polynesians, and other dark-skinned peoples. Some passages have been interpreted as allowing the skin of the Lamanites to finally lighten once they accept God truly, which associates Mormonism with whiteness. During the establishment of Salt Lake City, Young directed his followers to brutally suppress local natives and take resources from them to support the city, using the justification that they were "rejecting Christ's message."

So while Mormons do not believe Native Americans to be so wicked or sinful as to be impossible to rehabilitate, there's over 150 years of religious racism infecting Mormonism. There have been many attempts by modern Mormon scholars to reframe their relationship with race, but it hasn't exactly been perfect.

This ends up tying firmly into the colonialism narrative that Meyer accidentally infects Breaking Dawn with, and is likely the root cause of it appearing despite her seeming to be totally clueless about it. The Cullens are the metaphor for a perfect Mormon family, while the Quileute are the Lamanites who must be rehabilitated to truly gain redemption. Only the Quileute who side with the Cullens are portrayed as truly good and redeemed; those who don't aren't necessarily bad, but they're also not truly worthy. Jacob's path in the final book is slowly learning to accept the Mormon Cullen lifestyle and beliefs and become a part of them.

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