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Coohoolin posted:This got posted by Nate from TF and then he deleted his post after noticing the conspiracies devolve into "Russians" and "Bernie Bros". Liberals will try to delegitimise the protests because of violence, the next step from "there are instigators throwing bricks that don't represent the true honest peaceful protest" isn't "the protest is peaceful, let's do what they ask", it will be "ah the violence isn't a natural consequence of racial tension being pushed to breaking, it's deliberate, the cops are justified". Like it plays into the narrative that violence at a protest delegitimises the protest by painting it as a deliberate. "This brick was thrown deliberately to delegitimise this, it has now been delegitimised". Happened every time since the Klan at Tulsa in the 20s, still happens. 18 is a number that white supremacists like, this differentiating them from libertarians.
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Jun 3, 2020 22:34
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zhar posted:It seems to get referenced a lot as one of the most progressive countries by some people and an SJW state by others. Is the government a bunch of lib dems or something? For sure it has a lot of very good points. But it isn't the pure shining example to us all some seem to try to portray.
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Jun 3, 2020 22:36
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I am very confused. A non-white north american person I have on facebook is arguing that the word 'bootlicker' is racist and somehow comes from a word used by confederates against blacks who took up arms for the union. I have never in my life ever heard this take before and I can't tell whether it's just liberal brainworms or if there's something to it in the NA context, but I don't particularly want to be the white guy arguing what is and isn't racist on social media.Jaeluni Asjil posted:Sweden gets a lot of good press - not necessarily deserved. It's one of the biggest (3rd biggest?) arms dealers in the world for a start off. Oh for sure they're part of the neoliberal order just like the rest of the scandi countries but I always assumed their domestic policies were relatively progressive, and just glancing at the wiki they're apparently run by a broad left-coalition (though yeah the largest party are the socdems so I imagine somewhere around the lib dem/new labour mark - though supported by the greens and some actual left parties)
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Jun 3, 2020 22:44
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Guavanaut posted:Absolute shitshow of a nation, and yet entirely predictable given the "we won't release the document due to the political and racial tensions of the moment", "no wait we will", "no wait we won't". Oh hey, speaking of ... Russia report? Anyone seen it yet? quote:Mr Grieve told MPs that this process had finished and the report was sent to the prime minister on 17 October.
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Jun 3, 2020 22:47
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ThomasPaine posted:I am very confused. A non-white north american person I have on facebook is arguing that the word 'bootlicker' is racist and somehow comes from a word used by confederates against blacks who took up arms for the union. I have never in my life ever heard this take before and I can't tell whether it's just liberal brainworms or if there's something to it in the NA context, but I don't particularly want to be the white guy arguing what is and isn't racist on social media. Dictionaries say it's origins are from the 1840s so that can't be the source of the word?
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Jun 3, 2020 22:54
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ThomasPaine posted:I am very confused. A non-white north american person I have on facebook is arguing that the word 'bootlicker' is racist and somehow comes from a word used by confederates against blacks who took up arms for the union. I have never in my life ever heard this take before and I can't tell whether it's just liberal brainworms or if there's something to it in the NA context, but I don't particularly want to be the white guy arguing what is and isn't racist on social media. I mean, I'm sure some confederate, somewhere, called someone that among a lot of far worse things, but I'm pretty sure it has a much wider meaning otherwise...
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Jun 3, 2020 22:55
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ThomasPaine posted:I am very confused. A non-white north american person I have on facebook is arguing that the word 'bootlicker' is racist and somehow comes from a word used by confederates against blacks who took up arms for the union. I have never in my life ever heard this take before and I can't tell whether it's just liberal brainworms or if there's something to it in the NA context, but I don't particularly want to be the white guy arguing what is and isn't racist on social media. Someone is doing identity interference for capital, you dont have to worry about it, call them out and leave it. You won't get good faith engagement anyway.
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Jun 3, 2020 22:58
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quote:During the debate, after Sharma was seen wiping his face with a handkerchief several times, his Labour shadow, Ed Miliband, passed him a glass of water. Sharma also appeared sweaty and sounded hoarse on Tuesday, according to one fellow MP, when he voted to abolish hybrid parliamentary measures. I wonder if the entire cabinet will be doing their civic duty and self isolating if he does turn out to be positive, or if that's still just for the little people e: also dragging yourself into parliament when there's a pandemic on and you're feeling ill, specifically to vote against remote voting, is an interesting move
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Jun 3, 2020 22:58
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ThomasPaine posted:I am very confused. A non-white north american person I have on facebook is arguing that the word 'bootlicker' is racist and somehow comes from a word used by confederates against blacks who took up arms for the union. I have never in my life ever heard this take before and I can't tell whether it's just liberal brainworms or if there's something to it in the NA context, but I don't particularly want to be the white guy arguing what is and isn't racist on social media. It sounds a bit like the "picnic is racist" urban myth, although I don't doubt that it could be used to racially abuse.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:01
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XMNN posted:rip ed miliband, but the rest are good Voting for pain and death is very british
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Jun 3, 2020 23:04
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Coohoolin posted:Someone is doing identity interference for capital, you dont have to worry about it, call them out and leave it. You won't get good faith engagement anyway. Surprisingly she does appear to be arguing in relatively good faith and is providing seemingly solid academic sources, so I guess I know what I'm going to procrastinate on my thesis corrections tomorrow by reading. I can well imagine that the same word has been used independently to mean two almost completely unconnected things at different points in history, which seems to be the likely thing that's happening, but even if so it's certainly worth being aware of.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:04
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I would question the utility of trying to revive that meaning at the current time and place, however. Like, I genuinely do not think that 99% of people would use or interpret the word that way, so its actual, like, functional meaning as uses is the one we all understand. And given the word's utility as a statement against cooperation with unjust and degrading hierarchies I'm not sure who benefits from trying to make everyone stop using it based on what would functionally be an invented meaning? Unless there's an extant community of people who already understand it to mean that I don't get it?
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Jun 3, 2020 23:12
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XMNN posted:rip ed miliband, but the rest are good Seriously, this is the mostly utterly insane thing, and the most death-culty thing, that the Tories have done yet this parliament and it's a long loving list already. Literally standing in a half mile queue because it's not safe to stand in the usual ludicrously cramped mob to demand that they return to work in quarters that are woefully inadequate even under NON pandemic circumstances is just... ever-expanding psyduck vomiting psyducks levels of what the fuckery. I'm so loving exhausted E: I give pairing maybe two weeks before it gets quietly swept under the carpet with absolutely no fanfare, and it makes no difference that it is because the Tories literally couldn't lose a vote. I'm pretty sure they would all dutifully vote for their own executions if the whips told them to. And given the history around similar times, it might well come to that. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 23:18
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XMNN posted:reckon the ehrc will be investigating endemic racism in the Tory party any time soon? I think they already said they were perfectly happy to accept the Tories' promise to investigate themselves and left it at that. RockyB posted:Oh hey, speaking of ... Russia report? Anyone seen it yet? The committee that needs to sign off release hasn't actually been set up since Boris took over the party. A bit late but king of non-cop whodunit's is Quincy. I'm alive today to enjoy Tory Britain partly thanks to that show.gently caress, maybe i should hate him for inflicting this poo poo on me. Lungboy fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 23:18
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OwlFancier posted:I would question the utility of trying to revive that meaning at the current time and place, however. I agree, it's purely curiosity on my part, but it does make me wonder if there might be some north american communities where it still has some of those connotations. In any case it never hurts to be informed on these things ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 23:19
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ThomasPaine posted:Surprisingly she does appear to be arguing in relatively good faith and is providing seemingly solid academic sources, so I guess I know what I'm going to procrastinate on my thesis corrections tomorrow by reading. Have an example of one of these academic sources?
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Jun 3, 2020 23:26
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So a friend I was discussing the lockdown with back at the start where I linked stuff about the herd immunity and got told I was making Boris sound like he wanted to commit a genocide I brought back up the policy and the fact it has actually killed tens of thousands and he got real mad at me for misinterpreting what he said, that I obviously think he's a free market capitalist and I'm convincing nobody when I link guardian articles with bad poo poo the Tories are doing and ask people not to vote for them and that he isn't engaging in the links. Makes me think it really is weighing on him and he doesn't want to engage with the idea his vote was lovely because I have never suggested he voted Tory or is right wing lol
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Jun 3, 2020 23:30
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Late to this but the best cop show (that isn't Police Squad!) is Detectives On The Edge Of A Nervous Breakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Ap8HpmBRc Although admittedly it won't ring anywhere near as strongly with anyone not marinated in The Sweeney and the other shows being ripped to shreds, but Jim Broadbent overacting for Britain and the extremely surreal point that the climax, filmed at South Quay just opposite Canary Wharf, with them lamenting that all of the warehouses full of cardboard boxes for them to drive through were gone, is now almost as unrecognisable to modern eyes with just how fast the area has changed - one of the buildings there has been demolished and a new building put up (the IRA assisted with the first part of that process), then partially demolished again to make way for yet another building, in the 25 years since this was made. My actual serious suggestion for - maybe not best, but certainly most underrated - cop show is The Chinese Detective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7qrY26QlM Alas not available on Youtube but not hard to find. There's a lot of on-paper detective story cliches - maverick detective disliked by his superiors and his colleagues who gets results, "honest" criminals and bent coppers, even a hip, cool black buddy - but it's all through the rather darker prism of the maverick being the only Chinese-descent detective in the Met (and notably the only minority of any kind in the CID), and although it plays with a lot of racial stereotypes it also makes sure to gently caress them over - David Yip (still, AFAIK, the only Chinese actor to get a leading role in a prime time show on British TV) is fantastic in the title role, a sort of nerdier Columbo who more-or-less annoys people into confessing, also dealing with the second-generation immigrant problem of not really being accepted either by his birth community or by the country he was born in and carefully maneuvering himself closer to the bent copper who had bankrupted his father. It's a hell of a period piece in both the storylines and the actual filming locations (I once went through the whole series and there's only about 6 outside scenes that show buildings still recognisable today) and while the storylines are sometimes a little cookie-cutter, the performances, particularly of Yip but also of the who's who of Cockney character actors that make up the supporting cast, are absolutely amazing.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:33
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You could try retreating a bit to mollify him in the hopes that you can feed the guilt later lol.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:34
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OwlFancier posted:You could try retreating a bit to mollify him in the hopes that you can feed the guilt later lol. I was expecting him to day I was being a dick or that wasn't want he said not the whole spiel with a ps about guardian links lol
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Jun 3, 2020 23:36
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Jose posted:So a friend I was discussing the lockdown with back at the start where I linked stuff about the herd immunity and got told I was making Boris sound like he wanted to commit a genocide I brought back up the policy and the fact it has actually killed tens of thousands and he got real mad at me for misinterpreting what he said, that I obviously think he's a free market capitalist and I'm convincing nobody when I link guardian articles with bad poo poo the Tories are doing and ask people not to vote for them and that he isn't engaging in the links. Makes me think it really is weighing on him and he doesn't want to engage with the idea his vote was lovely because I have never suggested he voted Tory or is right wing lol It's funny how lovely, lovely people frequently react incredibly defensively when you mention lovely things in their vicinity without ever even implying they themselves have done them. If you have the energy, keep plugging. It'll take sustained metaphorical battering to break down the walls of voluntary ignorance, propaganda, fallacious thinking, and so forth, but if you can, then that might be a convert. We need to deradicalise as many people as we can stomach deradicalising, and you're doing a good thing by trying.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:37
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The guilt is a good sign, shows they're still capable of self reflection and linking their actions to effects, tricky part is try to steer it so they don't just go into hard denial.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:41
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goddamnedtwisto posted:(still, AFAIK, the only Chinese actor to get a leading role in a prime time show on British TV)
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Jun 3, 2020 23:43
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Coohoolin posted:Have an example of one of these academic sources? This is the book she's pushing, idk, it's a thousand miles from my field and I've never come across the author(s) before, so I can't speak to any possible ideological angles they might have https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=72N9-3vavMcC&lpg=PP1&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Jun 3, 2020 23:44
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https://twitter.com/basquiat1998/status/1268013469162496002 An improvement, honestly.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:55
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Cerv posted:I never watched Humans but doesn't that make Gemma Chan number two? Possibly, I did say as far as I knew. It's possible that there have been others but there really haven't been a lot of east Asian actors on British TV or in films - I guess the box-tickers only bother going down the list as far as south Asian, and just had Burt Kwouk on speed-dial if they needed a representative of a fifth of the world's population.
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Jun 3, 2020 23:59
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Beware Greeks bearing molotovs: https://twitter.com/CerveauxNon/status/1268269513105199104
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Jun 4, 2020 00:02
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zhar posted:It seems to get referenced a lot as one of the most progressive countries by some people and an SJW state by others. Is the government a bunch of lib dems or something? "bunch of lib dems" is about right, or New New Labour types. The far right had a huge resurgence and the Sweden Democrats were going from strength to strength until they stalled out slightly last election after a set of scandal and infighting. The managed to pull the whole tenor of the debate further right though and the current "left" government is barely that, not to mention weak and ineffective. The current mishandling of various things is leaving the door open for the far right to get another surge in the polls and the Sweden would go the same way as Denmark (where the ostensibly left wing party fully supports the use of detentions camps for asylum seekers etc). Basically, the outlook is pretty grim.
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Jun 4, 2020 00:02
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ThomasPaine posted:This is the book she's pushing, idk, it's a thousand miles from my field and I've never come across the author(s) before, so I can't speak to any possible ideological angles they might have Yeah no idea either. From what you're saying my instinct is someone trying to wokescold about a widespread term that regardless its origins has a pretty clear modern meaning. But I'm not seeing the conversation so might be totally off base.
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Jun 4, 2020 00:25
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Guavanaut posted:Never heard that. I've heard that 'contraband' was used as a term of abuse for those soldiers, which seems more realistic as the South viewed fugitive slaves more as property used illegally than human beings with free agency to lick boots, but bootlicker seems to predate the Civil War and referred to degradation and hierarchy within the British Army. Andrew Jackson (of otherwise being a general poo poo fame) allegedly refused to do so. "contraband" would lend itself to "bootlegger" maybe there's some difference in use bootlegger/bootlicker? Coohoolin posted:Have an example of one of these academic sources? Yes that would be interesting. Can't see anything on google that seems relevant (other than confederate boot licker things for actual boots). Did find this: https://www.reddit.com/r/redneckrevolt/comments/f4s9nk/psa_for_the_sons_of_confederate_bootlickers/
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Jun 4, 2020 00:41
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I'll say this much for the Prime Minister, it was a very canny move to bring in some cooler weather and help calm people down.
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Jun 4, 2020 00:57
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i feel real bad about the protests cause its essentially gonna apply a biological selection pressure against being a good person, and we really don't need that in the UK there's few enough of you as it is i guess we just gotta hope bojo and cummies are right and the kooky asians freaked out for no reason
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Jun 4, 2020 01:06
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Coohoolin posted:Yeah no idea either. I think that might be likely, or that she's making a fairly tenuous argument that 'x bad people used the term, therefore the term itself is bad', as if a word like 'fuckwit', for example, could become considered a slur towards some specific group because some members of group x used it to describe group y at some point. I've not actually seen her in person for going on a decade, but afaik she's definitely a right-leaning liberal so whether she actually believes it herself or not, there's a very good chance that she's pretty thrilled to have found a way to invoke some obtuse historical use of the terminology to attack the 'violent protesters' (who are I am sure almost entirely using it in a non-racial way) as somehow taking a colonial approach towards the protests and being classic whitey, and getting black people beaten up and shot in the process. She seems to believe it's a it's a US/Europe difference, and that in the former this is common reading, which tbh I think she's probably exaggerating considerably. Fwiw I'm fairly sure she's talking mostly garbage, but 1) I don't actually know for sure, 2) I'm not about to be 'white man lecturing brown woman on the internet about racism', even if I do think it's bullshit, 3) she's at least doing a good job of looking like she's discussing it in good faith, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, and 4) I have next to zero knowledge of US leftism + black liberationist stuff, and perhaps there are certain circles who consider it a problematic term. It's worth looking into if only to avoid potential future faux pas (and out of personal curiosity). ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 01:13
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Communist Thoughts posted:i feel real bad about the protests cause its essentially gonna apply a biological selection pressure against being a good person, and we really don't need that in the UK there's few enough of you as it is There's already one of those and it's called capitalism. But unlike political action it does not build power.
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Jun 4, 2020 01:15
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Communist Thoughts posted:i feel real bad about the protests cause its essentially gonna apply a biological selection pressure against being a good person, and we really don't need that in the UK there's few enough of you as it is Yeah, I’m with the protests 100% but people are going to die because these mass gatherings happen, and not for the usual reasons.
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Jun 4, 2020 01:54
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Meanwhile, in other news: https://twitter.com/WardieJerusalem/status/1268316960099573762?s=20
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Jun 4, 2020 01:59
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Femi just accidentally posted the true goals of his handlers. https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1268345832182624257?s=19
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Jun 4, 2020 02:06
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Very mixed feelings watching the protests. As a socialist, obviously gently caress yeah. But as a doctor there's something genuinely chilling about watching people merrily spread this disease that I spend every day fighting and watching people die from.
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Jun 4, 2020 02:48
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OwlFancier posted:There's already one of those and it's called capitalism. But unlike political action it does not build power. People come first, you can't replace people and I don't want these people dying. Cops are killing people and I hope the pressure causes some change in some states but looking at these crowds... If anything we thought about covid is true the bodycount down the line is going to be horrendous directly because of these huge gatherings. In the states the cops are keeping distance when theyr not bashing skulls and have face shields. The r0 among crowds of good people is going to be far higher.
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Jun 4, 2020 02:56
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And as I said, the death rate of good people is far higher in general, because capitalism kills the good and rewards the wicked. But the riots wouldn't happen without the pandemic, without the unemployment and anger at the system, and the people protesting in solidarity can't defer their action until next year either, the moment is now and they are taking it, and yes, it will kill them, but the wrong is with the system that makes their protest necessary, that puts in them the need to be out there fighting for their futures, and for all our futures. They know they're at risk which is why they're wearing masks, but they're there anyway because they see no other option. The blood of the dead that will follow is on the hands of those in power who would not change when asked, who would not change when it was clearly right, and who will only change under threat of force.
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Jun 4, 2020 03:04
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