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Toady ain't no toady.
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Jun 7, 2020 04:58
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| # ? May 24, 2024 21:10 |
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SubNat posted:I've mentioned this before, but I really wish there was an accompanying forced perspective to the walls, like there is for the furniture and such. Yeah, it's really irksome. The trees earlier had a similar problem where different outdoor objects are at different perspectives. Bushes and plants and saplings and stuff on the ground are in one kind of perspective but the trees are from a totally top-down perspective. Almost leaning _forward_ slightly even. I'm guessing it might just be really hard to try and give everything a pretty perspectvie since each Z level of DF is slmost like its own thing and might be hard for them to deal with occlusion? Straight top-down isn't a great perspective, especially for some many objects and things that just don't look interesting from that angle. Proper trees might be a nightmare with perspective, but interior spaces really feel like they need at least a faked version as you mocked. The drop shadow they have also gives the impression that the existing walls are just a picture frame floating slightly above the ground
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Jun 7, 2020 05:18
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The game has had top-down walls and forced perspective trees since forever, given how it uses ASCII. I'm not bothered by it. 
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Jun 7, 2020 11:55
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oh hell yes, danny odwyer did a noclip documentary on DF and sat down with tarn to talk about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY&hd=1 this introduction bug report story is incredible and a kruggsmash shoutout, hell yeah! edit: they really missed a golden opportunity to rattle off an unexplained list of df bugs like the "babies riding their mothers around like horses" bug. Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 20:20
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Captain Invictus posted:oh hell yes, danny odwyer did a noclip documentary on DF and sat down with tarn to talk about it everyone always talks about the cats getting drunk bug, and they should because it's a funny story, but no one ever talks about my favorite bug: the time Toady put in the wrong values when he was setting minerals melting and evaporation points, so he loaded up a save and the entire ground immediately puffed away into a cloud of steam
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Jun 10, 2020 18:45
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didn't watch that, did they mention the update that had geese laying eggs that were actually iron thrones
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Jun 10, 2020 20:01
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Someone in the Rimworld thread mentioned accidentally changing the boiling point of blood to the point where dwarves would literally explode when exposed to sunlight. Limbs and beards flying everywhere.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:07
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The history of DF bugs is unbelievably wild and immense, especially if you use the expanded definition of 'bug' to include 'features that were intended but had unintended consequences which should have been obvious'. Originally, dwarves that created artifacts would haul them around possessively for a period of time that extended from 'a few months' to 'indefinitely', which is all well and good when they make an artifact andesite ring, but would lead the creators of artifact lead floodgates to frequently starve trying to drag their perfect, immaculate lodestone from place to place. -Then there was the time dwarves were completely, consistently eating poo poo in combat because it turns out the math was wrong and they were half or less the size they were actually supposed to be. -More recently there was Toady adding riding mounts, but it turns out that that worked by sending commands into their psyche and so undead mounts couldn't be controlled because there was no soul into which to input your riding commands. -Occasionally monsters that took over civilizations would, as citizens of that civilization, grant you quests to destroy the monster that took over that civilization. (Proposing to call this 'pulling a Roger Muirebe') -Then there was loyalty cascades, that might or might not be finally fully fixed, where kinslaying within a civ could set off a rage-virus cascade of conflicted loyalties (since the aggressor would become an enemy of your civ and then be attacked by members of your civ but then because they're a member of your civ that would make those that attacked them an enemy of your civ but also an enemy of theirs so you'd have factional civil wars). -Then there was the time the boiling point of fat got set too low so everybody's fat boiled out and sloughed out onto the ground at the start of every embark, leaving wounded, fatless, but still-living dwarves. -Then there was the time that some material (some specific kind of wood, I think) had an ignition temp set too low so sometimes your wagon would flashpoint into a raging inferno on embark. -Then there was the period of time that the 'restricted' pathing weight literally made tiles inaccessible to the pathing algorithm, and since all entities follow the path weights (including invaders), you could make your fortress completely safe from invasion by sternly telling the opposing army that they weren't allowed in. -Then there were the oft-previously-discussed undead sponges that could still charge and crush dwarves with their immense mass while being totally immune to beheading and thus, at the time, immortal. -Then there was the period of time early in the 3d builds where you could embark on existing sites and steal all their stuff (or sap an enemy goblin tower by establishing a dwarven camp at the base and undermining it) Hell, most of us have probably experienced bugs which we couldn't quite figure out how to even report and haven't seen or experienced since. One of my fortresses was attacked by a dragon that, after killing half the population and setting several fires, settled down and became a permanent, essentially neutral inhabitant that often hung out in the hospital or dining hall and which mutually ignored my dwarves.
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Jun 11, 2020 01:15
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I definitely remember a bug where you could strategically burn the fat off your dwarves, and once they were out of fat they were completely immune to fire and could safely traverse magma
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Jun 11, 2020 01:17
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Danaru posted:I definitely remember a bug where you could strategically burn the fat off your dwarves, and once they were out of fat they were completely immune to fire and could safely traverse magma
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Jun 11, 2020 01:25
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Shady Amish Terror posted:-More recently there was Toady adding riding mounts, but it turns out that that worked by sending commands into their psyche and so undead mounts couldn't be controlled because there was no soul into which to input your riding commands. -When you play in adventure mode 'your' character still retains their original soul. All they can do is cry as they watch the horror you unleash on their world. Souls are whack.
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Jun 11, 2020 01:28
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Also remembered how much I loved that a military unit that fell onto a spike could, at very low odds, critically succeed and successfully dodge, parry, or block the spike with a shield or armor. Since fall damage ramped up massively with distance, and experience rewarded was commensurate with the blow averted, this would instantly lead the unit to being something like Legendary+12 in whatever skill was used to escape death. Throwing your military conscripts off a cliff until one of them successfully developed superpowers and blocked the entire earth was a legitimate shortcut to power.
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Jun 11, 2020 01:31
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If you're bringing up the mount code, you have to mention that dwarves carrying their babies were considered as mounts on the first iteration. So, the parent would follow the pathing AI of the baby (crawl on the floor randomly), until they starved to death. An earlier version of the simulation knew what parts go in a body, but not where they are located. It was possible to pierce both a dwarf's eyes with a singe arrow and cause no other injuries. The game was calculating chance to hit for each individual body part, which also meant that dwarves who were already missing body parts were better at dodging attacks. E: Shady Amish Terror posted:Throwing your military conscripts off a cliff until one of them successfully developed superpowers and blocked the entire earth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxQbdFdYurs&t=27s So Math fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 01:33
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Facebook Aunt posted:-When you play in adventure mode 'your' character still retains their original soul. All they can do is cry as they watch the horror you unleash on their world. for a while close friends and family members of the original adventurer would recognize the player character as a distinct entity from the original inhabitant of their body
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Jun 11, 2020 01:48
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Tunicate posted:for a while close friends and family members of the original adventurer would recognize the player character as a distinct entity from the original inhabitant of their body
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Jun 11, 2020 01:55
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Sorry, you guys probably get that question all the time, but what's currently the best modpack to use if I want to have access to the new 0.47 features? I checked the OP, but it hasn't been updated since like 2018. I'm fine with something basic, I just want the essentials and a decent tileset that lets me actually see things. My eyes aren't getting any better and I can't really read tiny ASCII anymore the way I used to.
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Jun 11, 2020 02:27
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egg tats posted:everyone always talks about the cats getting drunk bug, and they should because it's a funny story, but no one ever talks about my favorite bug: the time Toady put in the wrong values when he was setting minerals melting and evaporation points, so he loaded up a save and the entire ground immediately puffed away into a cloud of steam
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Jun 11, 2020 02:49
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Pigbuster posted:How was the drunk cat issue changed? Because it's not... exactly a bug, it's more like an accidentally accurate representation of why you shouldn't let cats wander around a beer hall filled with rowdy drunkards.
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Jun 11, 2020 02:53
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I love this game so much. 
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Jun 11, 2020 03:08
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Cardiovorax posted:Sorry, you guys probably get that question all the time, but what's currently the best modpack to use if I want to have access to the new 0.47 features? I checked the OP, but it hasn't been updated since like 2018. I'm fine with something basic, I just want the essentials and a decent tileset that lets me actually see things. My eyes aren't getting any better and I can't really read tiny ASCII anymore the way I used to. I think the Starter Pack is fully up to date now
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Jun 11, 2020 03:19
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The Peraxis one, or whatever it was called? Alright, thanks, I'll check that out.
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Jun 11, 2020 03:34
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Tunicate posted:for a while close friends and family members of the original adventurer would recognize the player character as a distinct entity from the original inhabitant of their body Wasn't there a thing where they still had a soul, so if you forced your adventurer to do something horrible, the soul would get bad thoughts and the only way it could manifest those thoughts was by making the adventurer cry?
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Jun 11, 2020 03:48
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Captain Invictus posted:Dwarf fortress, undertale before undertale. if you kill off literally every sapient creature in the world, the game transitions into the 'age of emptiness'. Someone on bay 12 games went further, and tried to exterminate all animal life as well quote:A new adventurer was sent to try and kill the last two--the first wolf actually got the drop on one, killing her, mainly because one too many instances of DF were open and DF Companion wasn't super-powering the right adventurer. But I went with it; and checked legends--there was now one wolf left in the forest, and one wolf in a cave, who now had a name. Last adventurer set out, killed both. Then the adventurer walked around the circle of forest for a year of in-game time. "But nobody came."
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Jun 11, 2020 03:48
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brilliant
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Jun 11, 2020 03:52
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Jun 11, 2020 03:57
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I miss embarking on other sites, it was fun to embark on a human town and dig straight to hell just to watch what happened
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Jun 11, 2020 14:25
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Danaru posted:I definitely remember a bug where you could strategically burn the fat off your dwarves, and once they were out of fat they were completely immune to fire and could safely traverse magma I wonder if it was this bug plus another one that led to one of my favorite DF bug stories. Basically, a military dwarf got hit with a syndrome that made skin necrotize and fall off. The dwarf was sent to the hospital, and the surgeons attempted to cut away the infected bits. However, due to some weird buggery, the syndrome spread about as fast as body parts were removed, and eventually, what ended up was a dwarf that had no skin, fat, or organs, because they had all been amputated. They managed to live somehow, and due to the lack of anything other than bones and a brain, were basically immortal. I recall they were wrapped in full adamantium armor, to protect those fragile bones, and then used as a terrifyingly effective hybrid between the terminator and robocop for that fortress.
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Jun 11, 2020 23:01
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Now that I've got the hang of .47 and am regularly managing to get forts past year 3 without lack-of-temple related spirals, I'm getting back to needing a question answered that I never really figured out before: What's the minimum set of clothing I can make to keep everyone happy? I could just start making batches of everything, but with population at 110 and rising that's going to be hard to keep up with. I did google around a bit and found some sources saying shirt, pants, and socks are good enough, but I've also seen bad thoughts from lacking mittens and hoods. I know how to set everything up with the manager, and I have the rest of my clothing industry well-sorted, but I'm stuck on what to produce.
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Jun 12, 2020 06:40
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Minimum amount of clothing? A really nice dining hall.
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Jun 12, 2020 07:57
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To elaborate a little, it was at one time %100 optimal to never make or allow clothing in the fortress because the negative thoughts from rotting and destroyed clothing were a constant menace and dwarves were just plain happier once they committed to being a nudist colony. The right personality dimensions can still make that work, probably, but you'll probably be cycling through a lot of migrant waves trying to find the right dwarves, and having a full set of clothing seems to be more impactful than before. Supposedly, upper body, lower body, and footwear covering are all a dwarf needs to be happy, even if that takes the form of a kilt, a cloak, and two mismatched socks, but dwarves wearing other clothing items will get upset when they get tattered and may be more upset if they can't replace them. Clothing management is admittedly somewhat of an annoyance, and a common source of both tedium and fortress clutter that may contribute to slowdown, especially as dwarves usually keep their old worn-out clothing in their bedroom for years unused before relinquishing it or allowing it to rot away. The wiki helpfully notes that clothing left on the ground decays slowly normally, at a rate of approximately ONE LEVEL PER CENTURY, but this decay is rapidly sped up in refuse stockpiles, encouraging you to periodically dump the tattered rags out of dwarven bedrooms and then designate the dump site a refuse stockpile; while not strictly necessary, it will cut down on the mess. Clothing supply issues are a common source of bad thoughts and foul moods, but the good news is that it doesn't take many dedicated dwarven jobs to constantly churn out masterwork clothing which will help mitigate mood problems and provide a steady supply of surplus trade goods. A farmer dedicated to fibrous plants and their processing can provide tons of material, and traders from every civ will tend to bring lots of cloth and leather if you don't want to bother with that (bear in mind elves are lazy and you will need to process the leather they deliver first, via your butcher's workshop) E: Realized I did a poor job of answering the original question. I would personally say from my experience that, yes, you can generally get away with shirts, pants, and socks, but I tend to also invest in shoes (because socks alone is loving weird), as well as some combination of leather hoods, cloaks, and gloves for the extra bit of protection they seem to provide, especially when paired with a military armor outfit. You are unlikely to be able to keep every dwarf perfectly happy, because 1) they have lots of different preferences and can, for instance, arrive wearing clothing your civ doesn't even know how to make and thus can't be readily replaced, and 2) dorfs are idiots and may manage to get bad thoughts about 'being forced to wear tattered clothing' because the stars simply didn't align right for them to decide to replace some article even though those replacements exist in abundance. Dwarves slowly becoming irrationally angry because of their own procrastination about replacing tattered personal effects is surprisingly realistic though, in fairness. Shady Amish Terror fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 09:41
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Zesty posted:Minimum amount of clothing? This is far less true than it used to be, unfortunately. One of these days I'll do a comprehensive write-up of the new stress and happiness system, because it's actually a pretty "game-like" system by DF standards -- that is, there's a lot the player can do to interact with it to get the outcomes they want. It's just that it's all extremely obfuscated and making all your dwarves perfectly happy takes an extreme level of commitment. If I did it right now I'd be procrastinating from actual work, though. The super-tl;dr version: the game is no longer about racking up one source of happiness that overwhelms everything else. It's about covering as many needs as possible, and picking the ones that are relatively straightforward to address instead of the ones that require you hand-craft exactly the right food / clothing / etc. to satisfy picky dwarves.
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Jun 12, 2020 14:44
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Yeah I'm not going for perfect happiness in every dwarf, just looking for an efficient way to cover the most common sources of unhappy thoughts. I have a productive but not ludicrous amount of cloth industry, and with the second generation of turkeys maturing, a good source of leather too. So for starters I'll set up cloth shirts, pants, and socks; leather shoes and hoods; and probably use my yarn for gloves.
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Jun 12, 2020 15:27
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Make temples early because there's currently a bug(?) where if dwarves have unfulfilled needs they'll go to fulfill those needs as soon as they can and won't stop until they're sated so one time I didn't make any temples until three years in at which point half the fortress went to go try and fulfill three years worth of worship all at once
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Jun 12, 2020 16:22
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It is better to make a bunch of diety specific temples or can I get by with a general temple?
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Jun 12, 2020 17:05
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A general one is fine. I've never bothered making a diety specific temple.
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Jun 12, 2020 17:13
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re : clothing I usually just set recurring orders to keep a stock of pants, robes and shoes and periodically run dfhack's cleanowned scattered to dump the rotten clothing down a dumping zone chute into magma the longterm problem is you must rotate your clothiers so the legendary clothiers don't make masterwork clothes that will get dumped into magma
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Jun 12, 2020 17:20
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If you use DFhack cleaning does that still cause sad thoughts about masterwork clothes?
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Jun 12, 2020 17:28
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promising carl posted:It is better to make a bunch of diety specific temples or can I get by with a general temple? A general one is fine for most dwarves but in a large enough fort you will eventually get some percentage extremely devout dwarves who will refuse to worship at an ecumenical temple, and since they're extremely devout they will also be more affected than normal by an inability to pray when and how they like. Worship is also one of the most influential sources of happiness/destressing available to dwarves -- competing with or even stronger than alcohol(!) -- while also being one of the easiest to fulfill. I usually make fancy themed temples for each god my citizens worship, because why not?
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Jun 12, 2020 17:44
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Agreed with the above on 'one temple will work most of the time, eventually you'll want one for each deity as well'. The good news is that you can make tiny little cloisters for each deity and that's usually sufficient if you don't want to go all out or don't have the time/resources to do so yet.
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Jun 12, 2020 19:26
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| # ? May 24, 2024 21:10 |
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Elephant People are hilariously lethal. I just wrestled a zombie and pinched its teeth. Literally every single one of them flew off into the distance in a giant arc of shattered dentes. Did the same with the rest of the limbs. Now I'm gonna strangle it for infinite wrestling.
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Jun 13, 2020 02:32
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