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I don't know if it was swapped out or not, but it was in the build-up to WrestleMania 3. I watched it on ESPN a few weeks back, and they showed that shot and it looked awful.
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Jun 8, 2020 21:14
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sticklefifer posted:If I remember right, Honky Tonk Man long-term hosed up Jake's back with a hit from a legit guitar that was accidentally swapped out from a prop breakapart one. Obviously the addictions were his main problem, but freak accidents and random injuries can happen to anyone in wrestling no matter how safe your style is. From Have A Nice Day: quote:Jake was and still is one of the unique characters in the business. A strange mixture of a hell of a guy and Satan, Jake is a guy I both genuinely like and am troubled by. As a wrestler, he was one of he best, or at least until the Honky Tonk Man hit him so hard over the head with a guitar that it nearly crippled him. These days, Jeff Jarrett hits a guy with a cheap-rear end guitar, the thing explodes upon impact, a cloud of smoke adds to the effect, and nobody gets hurt too bad. Back in 1987, Honky hit Jake with the best guitar money could buy, the only thing that broke were Jake’s vertebrae, and he went down in a heap, never to be quite the same man again.
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Jun 8, 2020 21:19
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Here's the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_kfluE-l44
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Jun 8, 2020 21:40
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Honky has long insisted that it was a regular gimmicked guitar, but it really doesn't seem that way from the video. Jake's explanation here sounds way more plausible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYER_ibPft8 Jake says that Lou Dondero was tasked with getting the guitar, thought "well, Vince would want the best," and bought way too good of a guitar, plus that whoever was tasked with gimmicking it didn't do close to a good enough job.
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Jun 8, 2020 22:29
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sticklefifer posted:If I remember right, Honky Tonk Man long-term hosed up Jake's back with a hit from a legit guitar that was accidentally swapped out from a prop breakapart one. Obviously the addictions were his main problem, but freak accidents and random injuries can happen to anyone in wrestling no matter how safe your style is. None of this explains Terry Funk, though
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Jun 8, 2020 23:23
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Red posted:None of this explains Terry Funk, though The best explanation for Terry is that he is insane and impossible to kill by normal means.
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Jun 8, 2020 23:48
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Terry is a Highlander
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Jun 9, 2020 10:12
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Deathlove posted:From Terry's autobiography: i wanna know how you hide 4k under a jar
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Jun 9, 2020 12:18
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flatluigi posted:i wanna know how you hide 4k under a jar Well it probably isn't just in ones.
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Jun 9, 2020 12:35
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smikey posted:Well it probably isn't just in ones. maybe it was a really big jar
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Jun 9, 2020 13:38
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Pretty sure they wrote a check but I can't find the clip of them talking about it in their YouShoot interview. They really put over the chili, though.
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Jun 9, 2020 13:53
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Something I've never found out in all my years of watching wrestling: What is the basis/origin of Psicosis's "Tijuana Millionaire" gimmick/nickname?
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Jun 9, 2020 21:13
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My understanding is that there are a ton of wrestling schools run by current/part-time/retired wrestlers, but I'm curious about whether any particular school has produced a significant number of people who made it to a major promotion; and, beyond that, whether they'd be considered talented. As far as I can tell, there's no real requirement for opening a wrestling school (Mr. Kennedy runs one), though I'm sure they have to have some sort of insurance. And, even people who may be well trained and have good intentions can have things go wrong: https://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/01/25/student-dies-at-md-pro-wrestling-school-run-by-former-wwe-star/ I want to say the WWE considered Lance Storm's school to be reliable for scouting, but he's since moved on.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:24
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Red posted:My understanding is that there are a ton of wrestling schools run by current/part-time/retired wrestlers, but I'm curious about whether any particular school has produced a significant number of people who made it to a major promotion; and, beyond that, whether they'd be considered talented. Would the Hart Dungeon count? Aside from them, The Wild Samoans have run a school for decades. Wikipedia lists graduates: Paul Orndorff, Junkyard Dog, Luna Vachon, Michael P.S. Hayes, Yokozuna, Bam Bam Bigelow, Rikishi, Sherri Martel, Virgil, Billy Kidman, Gene Snisky, Chris Kanyon and Batista.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:31
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Besides the Harts, Storm, and Afa there's other schools that stand out to me. Danny Davis' OVW school produced a LOT of people in the business, although part of that is certainly because they spent so much time linked to WWE as a developmental and then TNA. I'm not sure the talent level is as high as some. They also played "finishing" school to guys they didn't train from the start though so it may not be what you're looking for. Mike Quakenbush's Chikara school has had a ton of success as well producing guys like Eddie Kingston, Ricochet, Cesaro, etc. Again Chikara being a success in itself is a big part of that but a lot of the Chikara best have got around. CZW's school seems to have really had a lot of success in the last decade or two with a ton of guys like Adam Cole, Jon Moxley, and MJF. HBK's school only ran for a short time I think but had a really high success rate. Kendrick, London, Daniel Bryan, Hernandez, Masada, Lance Cade.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:19
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Red posted:My understanding is that there are a ton of wrestling schools run by current/part-time/retired wrestlers, but I'm curious about whether any particular school has produced a significant number of people who made it to a major promotion; and, beyond that, whether they'd be considered talented. There's The Monster Factory, which trained the likes of D'Lo, Chris Candido, The Godfather, The Pitbulls, Raven, King Kong Bundy, Tatanka, Sheamus, and Tony Atlas. Also Killer Kowalski's school, that produced Triple H, Chyna, Perry Saturn & John Kronus, Kofi Kingston, and Tommaso Ciampa.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:20
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Red posted:My understanding is that there are a ton of wrestling schools run by current/part-time/retired wrestlers, but I'm curious about whether any particular school has produced a significant number of people who made it to a major promotion; and, beyond that, whether they'd be considered talented. That said, just because a star went through a particular wrestling academy doesn't mean they really learned their stuff there. The quality of a school can go up and down wildly as trainers come and go, and some are rather brief training camps. Dory Funk Jr.'s Funking Conservatory is still around, and has produced several stars, but AFAIK it's just a camp lasting a few weeks. The big Japanese promotions have their own dojo systems. NJPW has three dojos where trainees actually live and train full-time. It's a lot like the heya system in sumo, right down to the menial housework and rumours of brutal hazing. (Kensuke Sasaki is alleged to have killed a trainee in the 90s.) Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 19:26
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Hangman said something similar on his recent AEW podcast, talking about how he went to Jimmy Valiant's school but rarely ever trained *with* Valiant. Still got to say "Yeah I was trained by Jimmy Valiant" to anyone who asked
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Jun 10, 2020 19:44
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Cesaro was trained in Switzerland by a wrestler named Sigmasta Rappo. Quack just taught him some lucha stuff. And Chuck Taylor trained Ricochet in Kentucky, not Quack. In fairness, the Wikipedia profiles for notable folk are good for muddying this kind of thing. Bryan Danielson'a profile used to list Regal, Dave Taylor, and Tracy Smothers as trainers in addition to Rudy Boy and HBK. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 19:54
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DeathChicken posted:Hangman said something similar on his recent AEW podcast, talking about how he went to Jimmy Valiant's school but rarely ever trained *with* Valiant. Still got to say "Yeah I was trained by Jimmy Valiant" to anyone who asked
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Jun 10, 2020 20:04
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Cesaro was trained in Switzerland by a wrestler named Sigmasta Rappo. Quack just taught him some lucha stuff. And Chuck Taylor trained Ricochet in Kentucky, not Quack. cagematch is another possible place to look but they have a habit of listing "WWE Performance Centre" for every wrestler signed to WWE: even people like Io Shirai who, well, weren't trained in the PC
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Jun 10, 2020 20:07
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Cesaro was trained in Switzerland by a wrestler named Sigmasta Rappo. Quack just taught him some lucha stuff. And Chuck Taylor trained Ricochet in Kentucky, not Quack. I thought Danielson said Regal and Smothers had a hand in his training, or did I dream that
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Jun 10, 2020 20:35
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Randaconda posted:I thought Danielson said Regal and Smothers had a hand in his training, or did I dream that His basic ring skills are Shawn and Rudy Boy (word is that it's not in that order) But Regal taught him stuff when he had his original development deal in Power Pro, and Smothers is a wealth of knowledge who also taught Hero and others stuff in their development (most likely in IWA MS)
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Jun 10, 2020 20:37
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El Gallinero Gros posted:His basic ring skills are Shawn and Rudy Boy (word is that it's not in that order) yeah, figures an old southern hand like Smothers would be a font of knowledge
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Jun 10, 2020 20:41
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Randaconda posted:I thought Danielson said Regal and Smothers had a hand in his training, or did I dream that Danielson's wrestling training in Texas was mostly Rudy Boy Gonzales, as well as I think Jose Lothario & HBK to some extent. But someone like him was going to seminars etc. And then he spent time in/with the Inoki LA Dojo too alongside guys like Samoa Joe & Rocky Romero & TJP. It's one of those things where "whose name was on the school you went to" doesn't always mean a lot.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:47
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I think the weird thing with HBK's school (even though his hands in it was iffy at best) is just at how many names came out of those first couple of classes. But yeah, I'm sure HBK's personal hand in making them who they are is minimal and Rudy Boy/Lothario might not have been the biggest influence. Its just a weirdly loaded list of "alumni". Its definitely true that its hard to say how much a wrestler's time at a wrestling school actually affected their development. Its probably a big part of why places like OVW, Chikara, CZW, or WXW/Afa seem to have such success. Because wherever they're at when they enter or exit the "school" when they "graduate" they move on to "secondary education" with the promotions where they get more exposure and development with each other and veterans. And it also helps that they're established either as their own thing or as gateways to bigger promotions so it encourages prospective talent to both sign up with their schools and follow through with the "secondary education" looking for the breakthrough or next step. The NJPW dojo probably works in much the same way but at a higher level. And the WWE Performance Center is certainly designed that way even if it seems to be bad at training wrestlers since its actual job is training "WWE Superstars".
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Jun 10, 2020 21:58
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WWE superstars? I’ll take the soup!
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Jun 10, 2020 22:10
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HBK apparently did train the first class quite a bit, which led to the amazing story Danielson told of Shawn's mama screaming at him after he took a bump.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:32
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Randaconda posted:HBK apparently did train the first class quite a bit, which led to the amazing story Danielson told of Shawn's mama screaming at him after he took a bump. Yes, complete with invoking the full birth certificate name powers that all moms have
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Jun 10, 2020 22:49
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The way most Japanese dojos work is that they have an entrance exam you have to pass in order to get into the dojo, then they focus heavily on the absolute basic fundamentals and building up strength (especially neck strength); then there's a test you have to pass in order to officially debut and then at that point you are still a dojo person so still training and doing all of that usual stuff there regularly; only you are wrestling in matches on top of that. The point when you get promoted above that varies depending on the promotion: in New Japan its when you go on excursion but in others they'll start to push you to a higher level. I don't know how Western schools work but one main difference is that people are paying to train there rather than trainees being paid so they can't be anything like as aggressive with people since, well, they'd just take their money and go elsewhere plus also they have totally different training methods. If anyone is interested in seeing a little bit into the training of a current dojo: AJPW did a documentary following a day in the life of Akira Francesco (an Italian wrestler who's moved to Japan full time and is living the full time dojo life) that has English subtitles; its very good and very interesting. There's also GAEA Girls which is a BBC documentary looking at trainees in GAEA preparing for their pro test; and that's infamous for showing just how brutal their methods were.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:57
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I assume a lot of the school/promotion setups work in a similar way, even NJPW probably operates a higher level. Like OVW used to advertise 3 stages of education for their school. Some of that's probably just grifting but I do think its part of why the schools that are part of a bigger promotion package tend to develop guys further along one way or another than a school where someone paid to attend for a few weeks/months and then went somewhere else.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:10
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Thanks for the school responses. It totally makes sense that development goes through a few steps. Fun fact: My uncles are members of the Moose Lodge, and one of their members was Larry Sharpe, who ran the Monster Factory. He was nice, and I really wish I'd asked him things. Somehow, and I don't know how, but my one uncle dated King Kong Bundy's ex-wife. She was... about what you might expect her to be, and she was not liked by my family. They didn't date very long, but meeting her was pretty 'what'.
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Jun 11, 2020 23:55
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Red posted:My understanding is that there are a ton of wrestling schools run by current/part-time/retired wrestlers, but I'm curious about whether any particular school has produced a significant number of people who made it to a major promotion; and, beyond that, whether they'd be considered talented. Eddie Sharkey trained a bunch, like The Road Warriors, Rick Rude, Barry Darsow, Jesse Ventura
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Jun 12, 2020 13:09
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Red posted:Thanks for the school responses. It totally makes sense that development goes through a few steps. Fun fact: My uncles are members of the Moose Lodge, and one of their members was Larry Sharpe, who ran the Monster Factory. He was nice, and I really wish I'd asked him things. Somehow, and I don't know how, but my one uncle dated King Kong Bundy's ex-wife. She was... about what you might expect her to be, and she was not liked by my family. They didn't date very long, but meeting her was pretty 'what'. Kim Kong Bundy
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Jun 12, 2020 13:14
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With wrestling schools, you really just have to do your research and know what to look for as far as a track record. Don't put too much stock in whose name is on the door, even if they're doing the actual training. For example, if someone told me money was no object and they were willing to move wherever was necessary, I would have always pointed them to Lance Storm's school before he closed up shop. But it's not that he's a name wrestler, it's that he clearly established himself as an excellent, safety-first trainer whose school produced a lot of solid talent who he went to bat for to get booked. But I would never have recommended the old ROH school regardless of who the trainer was, because they were terrible about getting the students booked. Cornette and some older people within wrestling push only going to name brand schools, but the training is so often done by someone other than the big name that it doesn't really mean anything. Doing and teaching aren't the same thing. Buddy Rose and Ray Stevens were incredible workers but terrible teachers because they couldn't really tell you why they did anything. You HAVE to go by the actual track record, and not get sucked in by schools that mix in people who they didn't really train, which is a big problem, as well. (And one that even good schools, like WWA4, have been guilty of.) I'd certainly recommend WWA4, with their track record of training good workers, running tons of school shows to get them experience, getting them bookings, etc., over, say, Ken Anderson's school, The Acadamy, that Molly Holly and the Daivaris help out at. WWA4 has a track record, while The Academy just has Airwolf so far. But you also have Seth Rollins's school, which has been putting out good graduates, getting them booked, etc, and has him involved in the training whenever he's available, plus the other main trainer broke in with him so you can trust that they're in sync as far as what's being taught. Curt Hawkins/Brian Myers teaches at his school as much as he can and they've put out some great graduates, too. But someone like Brian Fury isn't a name and has just as good a track record for producing good wrestlers. Also a real consideration: Some schools, via word of mouth, become destinations for women to train at because word gets around that a particular school/trainer is especially respectful and chill. Jason Knight's ACW was one when it was around, and Damien Adams's Team Adams is a current one. Which isn't to say that a school WITHOUT a disproportionate number of female graduates would be a bad environment for women as much as that there are some that really stick out in a positive way. TL;DR version: You want to look at who the actual trainers are, how much they do to get the students booked (both in their own promotion if they have one and elsewhere), who's *really* graduated from there, and, if possible, what kind of track record they have for safety.
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Jun 12, 2020 22:22
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Jun 12, 2020 22:40
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I refuse to believe that’s real
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Jun 12, 2020 22:59
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davidbix posted:Cornette and some older people within wrestling push only going to name brand schools, but the training is so often done by someone other than the big name that it doesn't really mean anything. Doing and teaching aren't the same thing. Buddy Rose and Ray Stevens were incredible workers but terrible teachers because they couldn't really tell you why they did anything.
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Jun 12, 2020 23:13
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There's a wrestling example of this that comes to mind that's a bit different but demonstrates that idea very strongly. Pro Wrestling EVE in London book a lot of Japanese wrestlers and they have a school that runs I think the morning after their live show date that's women's only (although they got in a lot of hot water by trying to over define it and outing themselves once again as not very cool people) and often when they have foreign imports they'll ask them to help out as a guest coach at their school the next night. One of their shows in 2017 I think had Manami Toyota and Emi Sakura both booked on it. Toyota is the bigger name and in the eyes of a lot of people the much better wrestler but when they asked her to help out she was like "look Emi is a much better trainer than I am; so she should do it" and honestly she was probably right. Emi has a long, long list of wrestlers that she's either trained herself or has been involved in training in some way (the Gatoh Move way of doing things is an open wrestling school which is still sort of unusual in Japan and what has happened is that some people that start out with her later go on with her blessing to try out for more formal dojos with that experience behind them and they tend to do very well) while Toyota worked as the mentor for Tsukasa Fujimoto and Tsukushi (and gave Tsukka her finisher) but I don't think that she really 'trained' them in any way as much as being a friendly experienced face to offer advice (as she does to a lot of the Ice Ribbon rookies now, her thing post-retirement seems to have been becoming the mother of the promotion). Emi's record as a trainer is something that gets her a lot of respect more broadly: its a big factor why certain people are willing to help out Gatoh Move sometimes when you'd not expect them to. While if you look at their careers as wrestlers Toyota was one of the top women stars of her era if not ever with a lot of accolades and recognition; while Emi didn't get into the AJW dojo and had to work through the deathmatch companies to break in, and its not really been until very recently with Gatoh Move getting more exposure and her runs in Europe and AEW where she's started to get the respect as a wrestler that she deserved outside of a small faction of Joshi fans; and even then I think people would probably not rank her at Toyota's level. Because being a good coach is less about having skills yourself; its about being able to explain why you do certain things and the theory behind it and to identify small things that people could improve on.
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Jun 13, 2020 01:24
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Both Tsukka and Tsukushi were originally trained by Emi
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Jun 13, 2020 11:17
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