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Comrade Blyatlov posted:you're talking about Kislev, right? I was asking about Chaos Dwarves Whoops, my bad. We don't really know much about the Chaos Dwarfs, beyond that they seem to have a vague Mesopotamian aesthetic. They follow one of the other Chaos Gods, Hashut, and we don't know much about Hashut, either. Hashut's commandments are universally "Build. Build more. More quickly." They're slavers, and are capable of some degree of magical genetic engineering (they created the Black Orcs), and the sorcerers who rule the Chaos Dwarves steadily turn to stone as a result of using magic so they typically amputate the afflicted body parts and replace them with magi-cybernetics. For a large part of Fantasy's run, the Chaos Dwarfs were the preserve of Forge World rather than being a mainstream army book like the other factions. Of all the potential major factions in TW3, I think CA would have to do the most completely original work with the Chaos Dwarfs, maybe more so than even the Vampire Coast - and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see multiple completely original LLs.
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Jun 9, 2020 14:43
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How is Troy coming anyway?
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Jun 9, 2020 14:44
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punishedkissinger posted:How is Troy coming anyway? free on the epic game store if you download it on launch day and not good
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Jun 9, 2020 14:52
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I hope they can get Udo Kier to voice a Kislev legendary lord. Maybe give the lord Gatling guns or something.
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Jun 9, 2020 14:53
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Troy looks like trash, they should stick with Warhams
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Jun 9, 2020 14:57
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Chaos dwarfs are Jews. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2020 14:58
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I dunno what it is but this pic just cracks me up Old Warhammer art has so much charm.
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Jun 9, 2020 15:01
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Fartbox posted:Troy looks like trash, they should stick with Warhams Troy seems to be them experimenting with a few ideas. Chariots can be destroyed and then your guy fights on foot. Magic in a history setting. Weapon swapping on units. and a few more The weapon swapping I think may of been a test run for the orc overhaul and black orks but probably didn't come out well.
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Jun 9, 2020 15:02
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Jeff the Mediocre posted:I hope they can get Udo Kier to voice a Kislev legendary lord. Maybe give the lord Gatling guns or something. he makes a good aristocratic vampire too as shown in the best comic book film
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Jun 9, 2020 15:02
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Triskelli posted:Dammit you made me imagine clicking on a chaos unit and it goes “DEAAUGH” in a bad Arnold impression and now I’m mad it’s not real GET TO ZE AHLTAHR ! Cythereal posted:Whoops, my bad. You forgot the most important known datapoint about Chorfs : they absolutely dominate the Warhammer world's hat game.
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Jun 9, 2020 15:05
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I could see the last DLC pack being Dwarfs vs Skaven with Grimm Burluksonn and Throt headlining. The Master and the Mutator. Toss in a VC freeLC lord and maybe a tweak to the Wood Elves amber mechanic and the stage is set for TWW3 getting announced.
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Jun 9, 2020 15:55
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I really want to do another no gunpowder not south america dwarf run. It was a faction unlocker that added that and let you get gunpowder if you got trade with old world dwarves. Really fun using ballistas against lizardmen.
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Jun 9, 2020 15:59
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Chaos Dwarfs' thing is about ruthless industrial production powered by daemonic magic and blood sacrifice, they make the Chaos armors (or at least some of them, it goes back and forth where that armor comes from IIRC depending on the writer), hellcannons and a bunch more daemon-infused hell-weapons. They are Dwarfs and shouldn't be able to do magic but they essentially bent the natural rules of the world over and beat them into submission so now a bunch of them are capable of magic, but all are slowly in the process of turning into stone from the feet up because Dwarfs doing magic is a thing that just should not be. The sorcerors are the ruling caste of their society and are a mixture between cult leaders, warlords and industrial magnates. Unless you consider them a pastiche of  taken to a comical, magical extreme, I'm not quite sure if they are good analogue for any one real world culture. Their campaign mechanics should defnitely center around pollution and stripping the Earth of wealth in the relentless pursuit of profit and power. Slavery should also feature and they should be able to either feed slaves into industrial projects to boost productivity or produce their most destructive weapons and magics. It'd also be cool if they had an arms dealing mechanic, especially if it had synergy with Chaos factions (seriously there should be several roaming Chaos horde factions in Game 3 that when united can invade the world) being able to take slaves in raids and from battles, and Chaos factions should face a choice of either sacrificing these slaves to gain boons from the Gods, incorporating them into their tribes to boost replenishment and growth (and other economy benefits) or selling them off the Chaos Dwarfs in return for cutting edge weaponry. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 16:12
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Who are they meant to be? The Warhammer World seems to be roughly based on the real one, who is their equivalent? Poles? If you mean the chaos dwarves, they've got a lot of Assyrian/Mesopotamian vibes from their architecture and stuff, though I doubt (hope) they're not meant to be a reflection on actual middle eastern cultures.
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Jun 9, 2020 16:27
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I feel like CA were basically meant to make fantasy games, theyre so drat good.
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Jun 9, 2020 16:54
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ZigZag posted:Chaos dwarfs are Jews. uh
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Jun 9, 2020 17:00
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Randarkman posted:Their campaign mechanics should defnitely center around pollution and stripping the Earth of wealth in the relentless pursuit of profit and power. Slavery should also feature and they should be able to either feed slaves into industrial projects to boost productivity or produce their most destructive weapons and magics. Yeah. And the mechanics already exist, too ! Just give them the Delfs slavery economic boosts & ritual fuel mechanics ; except on top of driving public order down and risk spawning black orc revolts, mass slave concentrations also create skaven-like corruption that nukes economy & growth over time (but maybe without the spread to neighbours because it's basically one giant hellcity boremining its immediate surroundings, not a global environmental hazard). I dunno if Chorfs should get Underway or not too - unlike Dorfs they seem to mostly build above ground ?
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Jun 9, 2020 17:21
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CHAOS DWARF FACTS - FACT: chaos dwarfs used to be regular dwarfs who dug in the forbidden bone zone, slowly turning them cruel and evil. they got so bad the regular dwarf clans cut off all contact with them and just acted like they had all died.  - FACT: chaos dwarfs slowly turn into stone from using magic. dwarf biology is very resistant to magic, so using chaos magic has negative effects on them. chaos dwarf sorcerers slowly turn to stone over the course of their lives, eventually ending up as a statue that gets moved to a big row of statues that lines the road to the chaos dwarf palace. the strongest current chorf sorcerer, astragoth ironhand, is carried around by a mechanical baby carrier because his arms and legs have turned to stone:    the second one is a custom model but i think it looks very cool - FACT: chaos dwarfs refer to themselves as dawi-zharr (dwarfs of fire). they live in the god drat magma realm, deeper than other dwarfs, which as anyone who knows anything about dungeons knows, means they are stronger than regular dwarfs. like regular dwarfs they use a great deal of machinery, but the chaos dwarfs take it to greater heights by binding daemons into their creations, imbuing them with evil power and will. this is why the hell cannons chaos use in total warhammer are crewed by chaos dwarfs if you look closely.  they also have evil trains:  i dont know how the trains would work in total warhammer, i think CA has their work cut out for them on making modular trains. - FACT: chaos dwarfs don't worship any of the major chaos gods, but like the skaven they have their own god, Hashut, the bull god known as the Father of Darkness. when the chaos dwarfs ancestors were living in the forbidden bone zone they all got really sick and started dying and basically started having the experience of a game of Dwarf Fortress. Hashut was just some type of loser minor chaos guy, and saw an opportunity to help out these extremely hosed up dwarfs and gain some personal power in the process. he exemplifies all the traits of dwarfkind, but turned to evil. evil ingenuity, evil lust for gold, evil being from yorkshire. his patronage makes chaos dwarfs slowly gain bull-like characteristics, like weird teeth (that i dont think real bulls have idk), red eyes, greyish skin, and little horns.   - FACT: the most updated chaos dwarf models, sold by forgeworld, do not have big hats. this is because they represent the penal legions of azgorh, who are the chaos version of Slayers. instead of forsaking armour and dying their hair red, they forsake tall hats and put on regular helmets with steel masks to hide their face. the shame of not having a tall hat marks them as having failed in society. unlike slayers though a member of the legion of azgorh can regain their status in society by doing great deeds, it's not a death sentence.  - FACT: the chaos dwarfs invented the black orks. because there just aren't very many chaos dwarfs, they use a lot of slave labour, mostly goblins, orcs, and ogres. they wanted some orks who could take orders and not just generally muck about, so they did a bunch of experiments to create the black ork breed. this both worked really well, and HORRIFICALLY backfired. the black orks were disciplined, intelligent, and highly motivated. and the second the chaos dwarfs turned their backs one of the new orks organised a devastating slave revolt and escaped into the darklands. some time later the ork who organised the revolt, and his ragtag group of allies arrived in the badlands. these days they are known as grimgor ironhide and his immortulz. in the end times grimgor would return to the kingdom of the chaos dwarfs and slaughter them all to the last, so they really hosed up when they made him.  - FACT: the chaos dwarfs have the hobgoblin khanates as a vassal race. the hobgoblins betrayed grimgor ironhide's uprising, the only faction of greenskins to do so, and so are persona non grata with every other greenskin subspecies, and now rely on the protection of the chaos dwarfs to avoid being wiped out. they serve as scouts, skirmishers, and cavalry for the dawi-zharr, given enough autonomy to operate aboveground without dwarf minders, because the chaos dwarfs know that if the hobgoblins betray them they are hosed. hobgoblins are nearly as tall as humans, and proportionally more treacherous than regular goblins as they are larger. the current most senior hobgoblin khan, being a lord pick for chaos dwarfs, is Gorduz Backstabber. he has lived for a very long time by hobgoblin standards because his back is covered in tough scar tissue which makes it almost impossible to backstab him.  - FACT: the most recent appearance in the tabletop game of the dawi-zharr is the aforementioned Legion of Azgorh. they were part of an event called Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos. it was a special forgeworld thing where a chaos champion called Tamurkhan was invading. Tamurkhan was one of the four sons of the Great Kurgan, an ancient warrior who united a bunch of norscan clans. Tamurkhan was extremely blessed by nurgle, and his natural form was a big baby maggot. He could burrow into another persons body and take them over. he was also old as poo poo, predating sigmar and ulfric. He led a big invasion of the empire and had chaos dwarfs and ogres to help him out. I mention all this because I think it is future fodder for a lord pack, since he is a nurgle boy who worked very closely with the lord of the legion of azgorh.  the bebe is hongry  tamurkhan in his ogre body riding his favourite toad dragon, buboes  da boss of the legion of azgorh - FACT: the chaos dwarfs have their own lore of magic, Lore of Hashut, and its basically like an evil themed lore of fire. i don't understand the tabletop rules well enough to tell you if its a good lore or not, but it has some cool ash clouds and whatnot. they also have a cool looking wizard guy:  thats all the facts i can think of for now goodbye
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Jun 9, 2020 17:35
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Honestly I'd kinda dig some kind've hybrid of high elves, dark elves, clan eshin and classic 'hide in a stronghold forever' dwarves. Instead of 'schemes' you make big, dwarfy constructions that fill building slots in settlements, you funnel cash turns and slaves into it. Than when its ready you pick it up with your army carry it over and drop it where you want it for whatever effect 'it' has, tanking an enemy army. Blowing poo poo up on the battle map, making a stronghold suck rear end, chaos corruption. You can leave them in settlements if you don't mind losing a build slot but of course getting sacked or losing a battle while carrying it will blow up your expensive dwarven driller or chaos bomb or whatever. The high elf part is basically manipulating diplomacy via one or more of these things. Some khornate construction that drives two factions to war with eachother when you get it finally completed. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 17:36
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juggalo baby coffin posted:- FACT: the most recent appearance in the tabletop game of the dawi-zharr is the aforementioned Legion of Azgorh. they were part of an event called Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos. it was a special forgeworld thing where a chaos champion called Tamurkhan was invading. Tamurkhan was one of the four sons of the Great Kurgan, an ancient warrior who united a bunch of norscan clans. Tamurkhan was extremely blessed by nurgle, and his natural form was a big baby maggot. He could burrow into another persons body and take them over. he was also old as poo poo, predating sigmar and ulfric. He led a big invasion of the empire and had chaos dwarfs and ogres to help him out. I mention all this because I think it is future fodder for a lord pack, since he is a nurgle boy who worked very closely with the lord of the legion of azgorh. Not Norscan clans. The Kurgans are the other major human Chaos nation, though where the Norscans are vikings the Kurgans are steppe nomads. In addition to being the villain in Highlander the name Kurgan is a word (borrowed from Turkic languages) that Russian and Soviet archaeologists used to refer to Scythian and Sarmatian burial tombs. I think in some of the lore the Kislevites (can't remember if the Ungols or the Gospodars, might be both, but if I were to guess it'd be the Ungols) are an ancient off-shoot of the Kurgans who gave up worshipping the Chaos Gods.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:44
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Yes, but will the Chaos Dwarfs get their most iconic unit, the rear end cannon? 
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Jun 9, 2020 17:48
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they better!
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Jun 9, 2020 17:51
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Carcer posted:If you mean the chaos dwarves, they've got a lot of Assyrian/Mesopotamian vibes from their architecture and stuff, though I doubt (hope) they're not meant to be a reflection on actual middle eastern cultures. I mean if you look up what the ancient Assyrians got up to, even in their own words, they seem to be almost comically brutal even by ancient standards. Whorelord fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 17:53
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Whorelord posted:I mean if you look up what the ancient Assyrians got up to, even in their own words, they seem to be pretty brutal even by ancient standards. More amusingly, they were probably the first nation on earth to build an actual military infrastructure. The Assyrians are the earliest known culture to have built dedicated barracks, training facilities, and supply depots for their military.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:56
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Whorelord posted:I mean if you look up what the ancient Assyrians got up to, even in their own words, they seem to be almost comically brutal even by ancient standards. Yeah but they're not really similar to chaos dwarfs in any way besides "brutal." The chaos dwarfs are aesthetically mesopotamian but they aren't like Empire or Tomb Kings where their society is obviously a caricature of a real one. Also vampirechat: I think GW screwed us on this one. CA in game one was basically sticking to 8th ed and GW by then had basically converted Vampire Counts to Von Carsteins, dropping bloodlines and dropping all the non-Von Carsteins as playable special characters until Neferata came back for end times.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:06
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I’m excited for Chaos Dwarfs! I love my little stunties, even when they’re evil. According to the lore, their population is actually increasing a little iirc.ZigZag posted:Chaos dwarfs are Jews. As a Jew, I must ask: what
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Jun 9, 2020 18:09
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Yeah but they're not really similar to chaos dwarfs in any way besides "brutal." The chaos dwarfs are aesthetically mesopotamian but they aren't like Empire or Tomb Kings where their society is obviously a caricature of a real one. Brutal, looks Mesopotamian and lots of slaves is good enough for me. I mean Lizardmen are aesthetically Aztec/Mesoamerican but their society isn't a caricature of it either, with the exception of a love of sacrifices. edit: Tag yourself, I'm Drum and Drone Ulsen 
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Jun 9, 2020 18:16
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Whorelord posted:Brutal, looks Mesopotamian and lots of slaves is good enough for me. I mean Lizardmen are aesthetically Aztec/Mesoamerican but their society isn't a caricature of it either, with the exception of a love of sacrifices. Well, and the rocket ships. E: Lol half of those dorfs might as well be Dark Helmet from Spaceballs.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:18
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ZigZag posted:Chaos dwarfs are Jews. No
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Jun 9, 2020 18:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Also vampirechat: I think GW screwed us on this one. CA in game one was basically sticking to 8th ed and GW by then had basically converted Vampire Counts to Von Carsteins, dropping bloodlines and dropping all the non-Von Carsteins as playable special characters until Neferata came back for end times. Wow, I stopped playing by 2006 and had no idea that they dropped the bloodlines. It's a real bummer, especially now that we have start locations for four of the five. Truecon420 posted:As a Jew, I must ask: what
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Jun 9, 2020 18:26
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There are nazis though. Skaven are nazis, people.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:28
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Mordja posted:Well, and the rocket ships. The Assyrians had rocket ships, it's just that Cyrus the Great destroyed the evidence.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:30
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Randarkman posted:There are nazis though. Skaven are nazis, people. I overheard a dude last year at a game store saying the skaven were based on jewish stereotypes which uh... says more about that dude than about the skaven or jews. Also Tolkien actually did derive his dwarven language and some of their customs from how he perceived jews (ie, they had an ancient "secret" language that outsiders rarely learned, they wear beards, some less charitable things that later interpretations have made worse). Which'd makes me side-eye him seriously today but as a jew I think he meant it respectfully at the time. He ended up trashcanning the german edition of the Hobbit because the nazis wanted him to switch to a non-jewish publisher anyway so I get the feeling he's decent enough for an old conservative english aristocrat. Plenty of his contemporaries were cavorting with nazis and genociding people.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:36
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Whorelord posted:Tag yourself, I'm Drum and Drone Ulsen I'm Doomaxe the Dreaded, inexplicably wielding a sword.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:37
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Azran posted:Ogres have four dudes and they could always just make a maneater LL up. One of their 4 dudes is already a Maneater leader actually, he’s where they have their name from even. Golgfag Maneater (probably get a changed first name), is basically the first ever Ogre Mercenary and his success and thus great wealth is why more Ogres followed in his path. The bigger issue is Bragg the Gutsman is a named Ogre Character whose lore specifically states no Ogre clan would ever follow him, because his method of fighting with other Ogres disgusts and terrifies them. So they kind of only have 3 LL choices that truly make sense. Greasus Goldtooth and Skag the Slaughterer are both really easy obvious ones, they match the usual top leader and top wizard combo for starting lords. Golgfag Maneater can easily have mercenary stuff as his campaign catch. Bragg could theoretically work as a Gnoblar based Legendary Lord. It’d be weird but could prove an interesting campaign idea. My personal hope is they make up an Ogre Legendary Lord designee thematically/aesthetically around the Firebellies (volcano fire priest wizards), Ironguts (think maximum armor) and literal hand cannons the Ogres use.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:00
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Lore of Hashtut is interesting. Some good, some meh, but overall probably fine. Their best spell is Ashstorm, which hits a unit with a whole slew of non-damaging effects for a while - one of which is counting as Flammable. That's... rather nasty given what most of the actual damage spells in the lore count as (plus they've got access to Metal and Fire, and a fair chunk of their ranged weaponry does fire damage as well). Among the meh, they've got a reasonably strong Magic Missle with a range of "you're in charge range." Given that most top tier casters (that aren't Vampires or Chaos Lords of Tzeentch... or Greater Daemons) really don't want to be in melee, that's not exactly ideal.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:10
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Whorelord posted:edit: Tag yourself, I'm Drum and Drone Ulsen That's a dwarf... with a sword... whose name is Doomaxe. I respect the hell out of him. You carve your own path of destruction and refuse to follow the path laid out for you, little dude.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:32
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I find it kind of weird that Ulthuan can have undercities when they went through the trouble of making it so the underway doesn't work there. Also, there was an Eshin undercity in one of my cities by turn 10 as Eltharion, how did that get there? Does the AI just gain a bunch of random undercities as the game goes on?
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Jun 9, 2020 19:34
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juggalo baby coffin posted:he has lived for a very long time by hobgoblin standards because his back is covered in tough scar tissue which makes it almost impossible to backstab him. FUN FACT : hobgoblin society is so murder-happy, their shoulder blades have fused together into a single hunchbacky bone over time to help survive the constant backstabbings.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:37
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Broken Cog posted:I find it kind of weird that Ulthuan can have undercities when they went through the trouble of making it so the underway doesn't work there. I think they argued that undercities can exist in Ulthuan because they just build upside down cities hanging under the disc. Starts in the elven basements and cellars, ends up an upside down hive city.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:39
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