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StabMasterArson posted:Hmm not enjoying Satisfactory as much as I’d hoped. Getting killed over and over in the tutorial cos theres animals seemingly guarding the materials I need to make a gun. Also doesnt look nearly as nice as the screenshots Circle strafe. Also, if you attack twice in a row, the second attack gets a damage boost. I can kill groups of hogs with the starter whacker without getting hit once.. haha.
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Jun 9, 2020 22:44
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I’ve been informed by reliable sources that you cannot in fact kill groups of feral hogs without a firearm
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Jun 9, 2020 22:47
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Light Gun Man posted:do be prepared to sit down and read for like, a good couple hours when you start up persona 4 though. yeah the intro is like a solid 2 hours before you actually fight anything.
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Jun 9, 2020 22:59
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i wouldn't say that persona 4 is less problematic, it just is liked more because of the setting and characters. it "no homo" ducks out of a discussion about sexuality and... i guess there isn't a phrase for it but "no gendo" ducks out of a discussion about gender dysphoria some persona fans will disagree with the latter but that's just my opinion the main thing that draws people to persona 4 is that it's if Scooby Doo was an anime-rear end JRPG, and also its small-town setting that feels more intimate and cozy
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Jun 9, 2020 23:06
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I would more unreservedly recommend (and play) Persona games if they weren't hundred hour epics. Its just a time span I can't stay interested in an RPG for. I played P3 way back when and Tokyo Mirage Sessions recently at times of my life with literally nothing else to do but play a video game and still couldn't finish.
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Jun 9, 2020 23:32
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The 7th Guest posted:i wouldn't say that persona 4 is less problematic, it just is liked more because of the setting and characters. it "no homo" ducks out of a discussion about sexuality and... i guess there isn't a phrase for it but "no gendo" ducks out of a discussion about gender dysphoria I think the distinction I would make is that it's not all that progressive in the grand scheme of things, but the themes are still gonna resonate with LGBTQA+ folks and you're free to Death of the Author the hell out of the lousier parts. By comparison there's not much you can do to mentally rewrite P5's homophobic garbage.
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Jun 9, 2020 23:43
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I think I've said this a few times before but anyone who wants a Persona-type anime JRPG that's a bit shorter and a bit more LGBTQ-positive should look at Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth. or, you know, Undertale 
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Jun 9, 2020 23:45
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Light Gun Man posted:do be prepared to sit down and read for like, a good couple hours when you start up persona 4 though. There are large chunks of p5 that are basically a visual novel so I think I can handle it. Probably.
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Jun 10, 2020 00:18
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The 7th Guest posted:there's this though This is like a monkey's paw wish come true, because I'm excited to finally have a chance to play Persona 4 Golden without having to buy a PS Vita or deal with PSNow, but seeing that it comes with Denuvo kills some of that enthusiasm.
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Jun 10, 2020 00:25
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Still waiting to hear what's actually wrong with Denuvo.
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Jun 10, 2020 00:49
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Most PS Vitas are gonna be taken off life support, RIP.
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Jun 10, 2020 00:51
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more like the PS mort
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Jun 10, 2020 00:55
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John Murdoch posted:Still waiting to hear what's actually wrong with Denuvo. Saying "well, I don't see the big deal about anti-consumer thing x" is the reason why so many things are anti-consumer. Just accepting that a marginal thing that doesn't really effect me is fine just leads to putting up with other dumb marginal things down the line, maybe even dumb marginal things that will possibly effect you. I don't want to write a lot of words about piracy, but the idea that the piracy bogeyman will undermine all forms of media has very little meat to it. The only things that don't get pirated are things no one gives a poo poo about. Sivek fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 01:00
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The 7th Guest posted:there's this though gently caress yeah I'm buying it
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Jun 10, 2020 01:01
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Well I'm excited to get lost in the meat dimension all over again
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Jun 10, 2020 01:04
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Sivek posted:For the paying customer it has no benefit. Denuvo does nothing to your experience as someone who bought the game except for the one time that the developer implemented it wrong and it tanked the games performance. It doesn't matter if a game has it, it shouldn't be a hill anyone sane ever dies on.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:05
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There's absolutely a reason to be against it in the event of poo poo like the recent stunt where they installed a ring-0 driver without warning, after launch. But in general, yes, it's just DRM.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:07
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END ME SCOOB posted:There's absolutely a reason to be against it in the event of poo poo like the recent stunt where they installed a ring-0 driver without warning, after launch. Like most gamer freak outs I have bad news about literally all anti-cheat software and kernel level access.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:09
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Orv posted:Denuvo does nothing to your experience as someone who bought the game except for the one time that the developer implemented it wrong and it tanked the games performance. It doesn't matter if a game has it, it shouldn't be a hill anyone sane ever dies on.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:12
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Yeah uhh you're calling a person insane for an incredibly mild criticism of DRM.
Hub Cat fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 01:14
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Orv posted:Like most gamer freak outs I have bad news about literally all anti-cheat software and kernel level access. I mean. The majority of them aren't so embedded. That's why that's kind of a thing.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:14
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John Murdoch posted:I think the distinction I would make is that it's not all that progressive in the grand scheme of things, but the themes are still gonna resonate with LGBTQA+ folks and you're free to Death of the Author the hell out of the lousier parts. By comparison there's not much you can do to mentally rewrite P5's homophobic garbage. I mean if you want to talk about death of the author I think Yosuke grappling with being gay is a more interesting idea than Kenji secretly being gay or whatever because he likes to knit
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Jun 10, 2020 01:17
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:So why are you intent on dying on this hill? There are plenty of games, if someone doesn't want to support a particular business practice there's nothing wrong with that. Devs using Denuvo make a choice, presuming that the delay in piracy afforded by it brings in more money than the customers who are turned off by it plus the hefty fee Denuvo charges for it. Maybe they're right maybe they're not, but they're free to make that choice just as consumers are free to add to the other side of the balance by being a small drop in the counterweight against that choice. Hub Cat posted:Yeah uhh you're calling a dude insane for an incredibly mild criticism of DRM. To clarify, my issue is with the stuff around Denuvo degrading performance in games and all the other stuff that gets trotted out every time a new release has it, because I'm just tired to death of gamer bullshit. If someone wants to make a values choice on DRM that's totally fine, poor choice of words.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:18
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Orv posted:Denuvo does nothing to your experience as someone who bought the game except for the one time that the developer implemented it wrong and it tanked the games performance. It doesn't matter if a game has it, it shouldn't be a hill anyone sane ever dies on. Game Informer | DRM Software Causing Performance Issues In PC Version Of Tekken 7, Says Producer Game Revolution | Sonic Mania Plus DRM Protection Slowing Down Legitimate Copies Extreme Tech | Denuvo Really Does Cripple PC Gaming Performance Eurogamer | Devil May Cry 5 PC's Denuvo DRM has a CPU hit With Persona 4 Golden being a port of a PS Vita game, I wouldn't think it would be that much of a system hog. At the same time, though, if the port suffers from poor optimization, Denuvo might drag it down more. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 01:32
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I will say that those sound like implementation issues but that's fair enough evidence for me to shut up.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:40
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The DMCV article is a bit dubious because the performance impact according to their own tests was really only noticeable in extreme CPU-bound situations that almost no home setup would have.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:42
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exquisite tea posted:The DMCV article is a bit dubious because the performance impact according to their own tests was really only noticeable in extreme CPU-bound situations that almost no home setup would have. I saw one for AC: Origins (a game people were actually able to strip it out of) where you could see a difference... if you were playing on a CPU well below minimum spec.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:46
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exquisite tea posted:The DMCV article is a bit dubious because the performance impact according to their own tests was really only noticeable in extreme CPU-bound situations that almost no home setup would have. That's true. I just thought to add another example. However, it was removed. It sounds like Monster Hunter World still has it, and I recall that it had stability issues when it launched on PC (dunno if it still does).
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Jun 10, 2020 01:50
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Max Wilco posted:That's true. I just thought to add another example. However, it was removed. It sounds like Monster Hunter World still has it, and I recall that it had stability issues when it launched on PC (dunno if it still does). That at least was due to their wildly hosed port, IIRC, which is still about half optimized for some people.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:52
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END ME SCOOB posted:I mean. The majority of them aren't so embedded. That's why that's kind of a thing. Except yes they are. Easy Anti-Cheat's access is identifical. Same with Blizzard's that is used in newer CoDs. It was a freakout over the Denuvo name.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:54
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END ME SCOOB posted:There's absolutely a reason to be against it in the event of poo poo like the recent stunt where they installed a ring-0 driver without warning, after launch. That driver had nothing to do with the Denuvo DRM, it was part of a seperate anti-cheat system also developed by Denuvo that Id Software chose to patch in. The DRM doesn't touch ring0. Orv posted:Like most gamer freak outs I have bad news about literally all anti-cheat software and kernel level access. ...and yeah, ring0 anticheat is pretty much the standard. Check out the list of games that use Battleye or EasyAntiCheat, they're just as invasive as the Denuvo anti-cheat and nobody cares because they don't use the scary D-word.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:54
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repiv posted:That driver had nothing to do with the Denuvo DRM, it was part of a seperate anti-cheat system also developed by Denuvo that Id Software chose to patch in. The DRM doesn't touch ring0. Yeah. That's why I called out the specific thing recently by the company, which I've only seen referred to under the same banner. But I'm clearly also loving up on other counts and will eat crow.
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Jun 10, 2020 01:57
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It should be noted that Denuvo absolutely can slow games down but YMMV depending on whether it's integrated properly. The game developer is supposed to add markers to their code which dictate which regions can be DRMed, and ensure that nothing performance critical gets touched by the DRM, but if they don't do that job correctly then it will hurt performance. Look to games like the recent Dooms to see it done properly though, they ran incredibly well in spite of having Denuvo, and Doom 2016 ran basically the same after they removed it.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:04
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Sivek posted:For the paying customer it has no benefit. Except perhaps facilitating the release of games like Persona 4 Golden, because publishers feel safe knowing lots of people won't just pirate it immediately.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:07
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Orv posted:That at least was due to their wildly hosed port, IIRC, which is still about half optimized for some people. monster hunter isn't the best benchmark of anything because by all accounts it's a baffling creation under the hood, as the creator of a mod that optimizes the game claimed quote:I've dropped the number of cores report to the game down to 5 though. Even with this reduction, 25% of all CPU time is spent switching active threads because the game has over 100 threads. It's the most insane piece of software I've ever looked at.  Meanwhile, nvidia seems uniquely unsure of how to get it to run better as performance varies randomly and wildly from version to version of their drivers, unlike most games where you can have a reasonable amount of confidence that installing newer drivers won't somehow make them run worse
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Jun 10, 2020 02:08
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repiv posted:...and yeah, ring0 anticheat is pretty much the standard. Check out the list of games that use Battleye or EasyAntiCheat, they're just as invasive as the Denuvo anti-cheat and nobody cares because they don't use the scary D-word. Dunno what it's worth, but when I tried Conan Exiles, I opted not to use Battleye. I wasn't able to play on most of the servers, but there were still some that didn't require it. Black Desert Online I think had something similar back when it first launched (or at least when the character creator was first getting popular), where it wanted to install some anti-cheat thing. I wanted to mess around with the character creator, but the anti-cheat thing looked super-sketchy, so I dropped it. It might have changed since then. I'm sure a lot of those utilities aren't harmful, but when it talks about being kernel level, I get paranoid, because I'm worried if I install it, I'll never be able to uninstall it, and if the company gets hacked or something, my personal info will be compromised.  Granted, that can happen in a number of other ways too, but that's just my knee-jerk reaction.How does VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat) work? That's not a kernel level thing, is it? repiv posted:It should be noted that Denuvo absolutely can slow games down but YMMV depending on whether it's integrated properly. The game developer is supposed to add markers to their code which dictate which regions can be DRMed, and ensure that nothing performance critical gets touched by the DRM, but if they don't do that job correctly then it will hurt performance. I think that's the thing, though: if it's well implemented, it's not an issue. The problem is that there's a lot of cases where it hasn't been, and seeing it included with a game makes a lot of people skeptical. Det_no posted:Except perhaps facilitating the release of games like Persona 4 Golden, because publishers feel safe knowing lots of people won't just pirate it immediately. Still won't stop people from cracking the DRM and pirating it. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 02:09
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I will now go off on something nobody cares about for five seconds; Gamers as a whole community tend to find their way to half an understanding of a technical system or terminology and then grossly misuse it for what they assume will be their benefit/gain but very rarely actually amounts to anything. See: kernel access, tick rate, minimum viable product, beta, alpha, vertical slice, et al.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:10
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Det_no posted:Except perhaps facilitating the release of games like Persona 4 Golden, because publishers feel safe knowing lots of people won't just pirate it immediately.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:11
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Max Wilco posted:Dunno what it's worth, but when I tried Conan Exiles, I opted not to use Battleye. I wasn't able to play on most of the servers, but there were still some that didn't require it. Black Desert Online uses Xigncode3 which is another kernel level anti-cheat, primarily used by Korean developers AFAIK. Battleye and EAC are the two you see most often in western titles. VAC is one of the few anti-cheats that still doesn't touch the kernel, but that's a large part of why it has such a hard time detecting anything beyond the most basic casual cheaters downloading the first free hack they find on Google. The competitive CS:GO community has been driven to third parties who provide their own ring0 anticheats for the game in lieu of VAC, because they actually work. None of these ring0 anti-cheats resist being uninstalled as far as I know, and your personal info is wide open anyway even without ring0 access. Any program you run can read any file associated with your user, and any program running as admin can read anything on your computer (and Steam will helpfully give every game you install admin access on first run without asking your permission). There's some risk that a driver you have installed could allow malicious code to escalate itself to ring0 but you can be badly owned by data theft or cryptolockers without the need for ring0 at all.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:21
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Orv posted:I will now go off on something nobody cares about for five seconds; Gamers as a whole community tend to find their way to half an understanding of a technical system or terminology and then grossly misuse it for what they assume will be their benefit/gain but very rarely actually amounts to anything. See: kernel access, tick rate, minimum viable product, beta, alpha, vertical slice, et al. I watched a youtuber say the new AI in Age of Empires 2 definitive edition was a missed opportunity, because they should have instead run the game through Deepmind and I became so irrationally angry that I am still typing about it months later
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Jun 10, 2020 02:38
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