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Given the availability problems with some of the films, do we want to think about streaming a few over Discord? e: I'm pretty sure my upload speed can handle streaming in HD, but it's not something I have any experience with Debbie Does Dagon fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 17:15
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BisonDollah posted:one on Disney+ (guess which one?)
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Jun 10, 2020 17:23
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TrixRabbi posted:Mary Lambert's Halloweentown II: Kalabar's Revenge Heyoo! My partner forced me to watch Halloweentown a few weeks ago and I found it quite alright.
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Jun 10, 2020 17:50
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Those movies are charming and I only consider it a benefit in Lambert's favor in this tournament.
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Jun 10, 2020 17:58
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I started to check out all the films I hadn't seen and where I could find them last night and then realized there's drat near 500 films in this drat thing and what I was doing was insane! So instead I spent an hour or so making a joke video. Because that's sane. Basebf555 posted:Look at it this way(and just like you keep apologizing for being a wet blanket I will apologize for constantly trying to change your mind): I've said it before, this feels less like a sport to me and more like a table top card game minus strategy. Which is still a perfectly cool way to play a silly game and give us all an excuse to watch movies. Just not, in my opinion, any way to judge directors. married but discreet posted:Imagine being hesitant about arguing which obscure movies that 90% of the population does not remember should be on a google sheet on a gay dead internet forum, in a thread that is specifically about arguing which movies should remain on a google sheet. Rock on my man, this is literally the content we're here for. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 18:11
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TrixRabbi posted:Those movies are charming and I only consider it a benefit in Lambert's favor in this tournament. The first film is basically saved by a premise that somehow predates Harry Potter and has a really good production design and clever camera work that hides the limited budget.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:29
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STAC Goat posted:
Ah, it's all in good fun, and disucssing the rules is part of it. If Jordan Peele or god forbid James Wan wins, so what? It would be hilarious to see Wes Craven knocked out in the first round, and nobody should care because there will still be just as many movies to discuss as before. If this ends with Evil Dead 2 vs Dawn of the Dead again, wouldn't that be boring?
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Jun 10, 2020 18:37
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married but discreet posted:Ah, it's all in good fun, and disucssing the rules is part of it. Agreed. Which is why like I don't want to be some petulant rear end whining that we're not crowning the Best Director. I'm sure by the time the first round starts and I have a bunch of movies I want to watch I'll get over it and just make snide "Sham!" jokes at the screwy matchups that present. I should really just start watching some of the movies now and get over it. Netflix pulled the series I was binging anyway. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 18:44
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Franchescanado posted:The first film is basically saved by a premise that somehow predates Harry Potter and has a really good production design and clever camera work that hides the limited budget. The first film was directed by Duwayne Dunham, who is not a name I expect anyone to know but if you want to spit out your coffee go look up his filmography as an editor.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:46
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TrixRabbi posted:The first film was directed by Duwayne Dunham, who is not a name I expect anyone to know but if you want to spit out your coffee go look up his filmography as an editor. I have seen 7 of his 10 films. You're right though, he's a genuinely impressive editor. He doesn't edit his own movies either, which is strange!
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Jun 10, 2020 19:03
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Franchescanado posted:The first film is basically saved by a premise that somehow predates Harry Potter and has a really good production design and clever camera work that hides the limited budget. The makeup and animatronics in that film is pretty impressive
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Jun 10, 2020 19:04
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Burkion posted:The makeup and animatronics in that film is pretty impressive Also the costuming, which I just blanketed under Production Design, but you're right that they all deserve a shout-out. Robin Thomas does good stuff as the villain, too.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:06
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Franchescanado posted:I have seen 7 of his 10 films. Editing is a pretty gargantuan task and is already well underway while the film is still being shot. There obviously are insane auteurs who do it all or at least have trusted assistants they can delegate duties to, but I don't think its uncommon for someone who steps out of that role to direct to want to hand off the duties to someone who can focus on it so the director can oversee the bigger task and focus. I imagine he still directs the editing. But he probably doesn't handle the bulk of the work or middle way decision making, just points direction and evaluates cuts and makes final decisions. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 19:08
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Also, like, they're Disney Channel movies.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:15
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TrixRabbi posted:Also, like, they're Disney Channel movies. Homeward Bound and Little Giants are absolutely not Disney Channel movies. Homeward Bound was theatrically released and Little Giants is a Warner Bros film. 
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Jun 10, 2020 19:20
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Also again, remember that when we get down to the final 8, full resumes are in play. So there's no way someone like Peele is gonna win the whole thing, the effect of the format is limited to just making for more interesting early round matchups. Edit: Actually I see that I misread the OP. I feel like my way is better though and the final few matchups shouldn't be limited to evaluating one film per director.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:03
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I don't think those rules even work anymore. Because like Jordan Peele only has 2 movies. So if he advances to the Sweet 16 he'd be out of films if you eliminated on each round. So at the very least you'd have to reset the pools every 2 rounds, or just not eliminate movies, or apply different rules for 6 movie entries and <6 entries. To me the early rounds are always more interesting in these things than the last since its all more open to interpretation and wide. Yeah, upsets don't happen near as much as you like but they happen in the first 2 rounds more than later where these things tend to eventually come down to 1 and 2 seeds. But I guess that's why some people seem to prefer the idea of a 1 or 2 seed falling because of a randomly chosen bad film. But that feels artificial and dull to me. And while I agree its unlikely Jordan Peele wins this I also just think Peele is a less compelling guy to debate every round since he has a smaller body of work. That would be fine if we were just evaluating the directors in whole because then that would either be a plus or minus for Peele voters could evaluate and they could decide whether Wes Craven is better because he has more good films or worse because he has a bunch of bad films. But we're not doing that. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 20:16
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We can always create an all star director team with Peele, Kubrick, Spielberg, Bird and Mitchell, who have been robbed. I'm joking I'm joking
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Jun 10, 2020 20:23
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What about a rule where if a director with less than 4 qualifying films goes up against a director with the full 6, the more prolific director gets to eliminate x(whatever the difference is) number of their films from the draw, only leaving their strongest in. I think in most cases the decisions on which films to take out would be fairly obvious.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:30
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https://letterboxd.com/debbiedoesdagon/list/bracketology-director-madness/ I put all of the films from the spreadsheet into a handy Letterboxd list. I also noticed that I missed a film for Hélène Cattet and Bruno Forzani, they have a short segment called "O is for Orgasm" in "The ABCs of Death" anthology.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:31
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Basebf555 posted:What about a rule where if a director with less than 4 qualifying films goes up against a director with the full 6, the more prolific director gets to eliminate x(whatever the difference is) number of their films from the draw, only leaving their strongest in. I think in most cases the decisions on which films to take out would be fairly obvious. My impression is Shreck runs this in a way that they're trying to avoid lots of sub debates and noise that would threaten to make it more of an annoying chore (which I admit, is probably the dangerous way my management could probably take this since I'm a pedantic nerd). So like, having to decide what movies to cut a bunch of times each round seems counter to that and like a lot of work. Even if it was "largely obvious" (and I'd again point out Wes' list to dispute the "fairly obvious" assumption) it would still be a bunch of extra work for Shreck to define and clarify. Debbie Does Dagon posted:https://letterboxd.com/debbiedoesdagon/list/bracketology-director-madness/ 1) Thank you for this. Its awesome and helpful. 2) I think you have the wrong All Cheerleaders Die. McKee did a low budget version of it in 2001 and then a big budget remake in 2013. I don't know if the first is available anywhere but I definitely meant to nominate the latter. 3) I'm surprised the list is ONLY 399 films. I'm even more surprised I've seen nearly half of them at 176. Still a lot of work to do. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 20:34
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Thanks! If you see anymore mistakes let me know. I also couldn't find Ed Wood's Necromania on Letterboxd, Wikipedia says it's porn, so I'm guessing that's the reason.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:58
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Yeah, when I was looking last night I couldn't find that one and a bunch of others, especially the Japanese/Korean films. I think Shreck is right that a number of these votes are gonna end up with a film most people haven't and can't see. another reason to vote for the whole director's field where maybe you did see or can see some of their other films...
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Jun 10, 2020 21:09
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I can't lie STAC is starting to win me over. Anyway I've seen exactly 50% of the list so I'll be watching a bunch of movies for the first time regardless.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:14
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If anyone needs any help finding Ishiro Honda's work, just hit me up. A lot of it is on HBO max now actually!
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Jun 10, 2020 21:19
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Basebf555 posted:What about a rule where if a director with less than 4 qualifying films goes up against a director with the full 6, the more prolific director gets to eliminate x(whatever the difference is) number of their films from the draw, only leaving their strongest in. I think in most cases the decisions on which films to take out would be fairly obvious. Eh, I think it should be on the respective quality of the films. If Jordan Peele runs up against Herschell Gordon Lewis, Lewis may have been around long enough to have a full filmography but did he make anything remotely as good as Get Out? That's a debate to be had when we get to the matchups and I think it's fair. The directors with smaller filmographies are in here because they've so far proven themselves exceptional in a way that warrants graduation into the big leagues. By their inclusion at all, we're saying they can hold their own against guys who've specialized in this genre for decades. Can two great horror movies beat out entire filmographies is a worthwhile question we'll put to the test.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:21
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, when I was looking last night I couldn't find that one and a bunch of others, especially the Japanese/Korean films. I think Shreck is right that a number of these votes are gonna end up with a film most people haven't and can't see. This is why I was advocating for a small bracket where it's one film against one other film. That way people can actually watch the films week to week, otherwise the first half of the bracket is just going to be a popularity contest. I found myself having to do that in the preliminary round where there were a handful of filmmakers whose entire body of work I'd never seen.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:30
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TrixRabbi posted:Eh, I think it should be on the respective quality of the films. If Jordan Peele runs up against Herschell Gordon Lewis, Lewis may have been around long enough to have a full filmography but did he make anything remotely as good as Get Out? That's a debate to be had when we get to the matchups and I think it's fair. The directors with smaller filmographies are in here because they've so far proven themselves exceptional in a way that warrants graduation into the big leagues. By their inclusion at all, we're saying they can hold their own against guys who've specialized in this genre for decades. Can two great horror movies beat out entire filmographies is a worthwhile question we'll put to the test. That's the thing though, you can't have that conversation because you're only supposed to consider whichever film ends up being selected. So you can't say "Did John Carpenter make anything as good as Get Out?" if he gets a lovely dice roll and ends up getting Prince of Darkness. You then have to decide the matchup on those two films alone, Get Out vs. Prince of Darkness and that's it, which would be kinda weird because you know, it's Carpenter.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:32
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Basebf555 posted:I can't lie STAC is starting to win me over. I did another pass over and got up to 45%. Any way this goes there's a TON of films I've wanted to see or meant to see that are available so I'm probably gonna have another big horror month. I'm already changing my October plans. TrixRabbi posted:Eh, I think it should be on the respective quality of the films. If Jordan Peele runs up against Herschell Gordon Lewis, Lewis may have been around long enough to have a full filmography but did he make anything remotely as good as Get Out? That's a debate to be had when we get to the matchups and I think it's fair. The directors with smaller filmographies are in here because they've so far proven themselves exceptional in a way that warrants graduation into the big leagues. By their inclusion at all, we're saying they can hold their own against guys who've specialized in this genre for decades. Can two great horror movies beat out entire filmographies is a worthwhile question we'll put to the test. To be clear, I'm not arguing against directors like Peele. I voted for Peele and in my initial proposal of a "Top 10" ballot and a "wildcard" ballot he absolutely would have been one of my wildcards. And yeah, I think its worth arguing how far the strength of Get Out and the other stuff he's done with Us or his influence on Twilight Zone or Lovecraft Country or whatever can take him. I think that could have sparked a lot of fun debate and not just with Peele. Ari Aster, Jennifer Kent, Benson/Moorhead, Chuck Russell, and Roger Eggers are other directors with 2-3 films I voted for and could easily see arguing for depending on their matchups. But that's not what we're doing. And I think that's more interesting than "Get Out vs Last House On The Left". It might be fun to see Peele knock off a legend because of the roll of dice but like... what's the debate there? Get Out is a better film in like every conceivable way. edit: feedmyleg posted:This is why I was advocating for a small bracket where it's one film against one other film. That way people can actually watch the films week to week, otherwise the first half of the bracket is just going to be a popularity contest. I found myself having to do that in the preliminary round where there were a handful of filmmakers whose entire body of work I'd never seen. I get that. Its definitely much more doable to go through maybe 5-10 films you haven't seen in a week than like 5-10 filmographies you're not familiar with. Putting aside the "movie vs catalogue" debate I just think there's gonna be a problem with availability. I've never heard of Herschell Gordon Lewis before this. I've never seen any of his movies. Exactly 1 of his films on the list is available for me to watch, and that's on Kanopy which I only get 3 rentals a month for. I can watch that and get SOME sense of Lewis but there's a 4 out of 5 chance if he makes the tournament that I'll have no chance to watch his film and I'll never even consider giving him my vote regardless of what he's up against. Similarly I've seen 1 Jean Rollin film and 4 of his other 5 are on Kanopy. I've seen none of Koji Shiraishi Noroi and Norio Tsuruta and couldn't find any of their films online with a quick search last night. So they're all in a tough spot to begin with for my vote and if it comes down to 1 film I can't get then it doesn't matter if I can get ahold of others. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 21:33
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Going film by film means at most 126 films to watch for the competition, and the obscure directors likely get knocked out early anyway, so it doesn't seem that bad. And I'm in the camp that there needs to be some reason for the elimination brackets, otherwise you might as well just use the ranked-choice poll as your result and spend a little time discussing the picks. Of course, the secondary of goal of encouraging the films by the lesser-known directors to be viewed is an intended effect, to be sure, and nobody's going to stop anyone from going and watching more of someone's filmography on their own.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:55
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:Thanks! If you see anymore mistakes let me know. I also couldn't find Ed Wood's Necromania on Letterboxd, Wikipedia says it's porn, so I'm guessing that's the reason. Looks like the short film version of Saw made the list instead of the feature-length.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:56
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Kangra posted:Going film by film means at most 126 films to watch for the competition, and the obscure directors likely get knocked out early anyway, so it doesn't seem that bad. And I'm in the camp that there needs to be some reason for the elimination brackets, otherwise you might as well just use the ranked-choice poll as your result and spend a little time discussing the picks. I think we lose that if an "upset" is just happening because the dice drew a good/great film vs a bad/mediocre/ok film.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:17
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STAC Goat posted:Similarly I've seen 1 Jean Rollin film and 4 of his other 5 are on Kanopy. I've seen none of Koji Shiraishi Noroi and Norio Tsuruta and couldn't find any of their films online with a quick search last night. So they're all in a tough spot to begin with for my vote and if it comes down to 1 film I can't get then it doesn't matter if I can get ahold of others.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:21
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TrixRabbi posted:Eh, I think it should be on the respective quality of the films. If Jordan Peele runs up against Herschell Gordon Lewis, Lewis may have been around long enough to have a full filmography but did he make anything remotely as good as Get Out? That's a debate to be had when we get to the matchups and I think it's fair. The directors with smaller filmographies are in here because they've so far proven themselves exceptional in a way that warrants graduation into the big leagues. By their inclusion at all, we're saying they can hold their own against guys who've specialized in this genre for decades. Can two great horror movies beat out entire filmographies is a worthwhile question we'll put to the test. There are also cases like with James Whale who only ever got to make the four horror films due to bullshit going on at the time. An openly gay man getting screwed over by the studio and then shut out of the industry in the 40s, and then the latter portion of his life, he never had the chance to make more than what he did. This is one of the only ways you can pit people like him against people like Romero, Craven and Carpenter, who worked for decades in the field.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:40
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I disagree completely. Whale's only got 4 films but its a pretty amazing 4 films. Whale would unquestionable be one of my top seeds and was one of the guys I was considering giving my automatic bid to. I think he'd absolutely put up a fight against anyone, including the big guns. I keep using Wes Craven so I'll keep doing it here. As much as I love him do I think his entire positive collection is as good as Whale's four films? I don't know. Do I think Wes' fairly sizeable bad catalogue counts against him vs Whale even doing well in a situation like Frankenstein where he was clearly not at the top of his skill or knowledge? I think that's a real debate to be had, much more than "movie X vs movie Y". I honestly think that the idea we have to handicap the field to help Whale get his respect is rear end backwards and diminishing to a drat impressive body of work.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:52
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I'm using Whale as an example as some one who wasn't allowed to continue making these kinds of movies. It's to his fortune that his four movies are all great- other director's aren't that lucky.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:57
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I'm sure that's true but I think practically we probably don't have many people in this field who (a) were poo poo on by the system and (b) were unable to showcase their skill despite that. Sadly those people probably mostly just got lost to history. So I'm not sure what this really accomplishes.* But like, does that mean you agree with me that this format inherently favors directors like Peele and Aster who have smaller catalogues and handicaps directors with large catalogues like Wes and Carpenter? *Its good at the very least that we are talking about more obscure directors and their films and that there's a lot of films and directors that weren't on my radar before that are now. SOME of that might come from these matchups and possible upsets, but I'm not sure its any more that would have come if we had just done this the other way.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:05
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Burkion posted:This is one of the only ways you can pit people like him against people like Romero, Craven and Carpenter, who worked for decades in the field. Have you heard Carpenter talk about his career? It's generally with the sort of attitude of "Well, doesn't do me any good that my movies are beloved now. If people had bothered seeing the things at the time then maybe I could have actually done half of what I wanted to do." It's not the same situation, obviously, but I know at least two of your examples are directors who didn't get the career they wanted and eventually stopped getting the films they wanted to make funded.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:12
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feedmyleg posted:Have you heard Carpenter talk about his career? It's generally with the sort of attitude of "Well, doesn't do me any good that my movies are beloved now. If people had bothered seeing the things at the time then maybe I could have actually done half of what I wanted to do." Yeah that's also a whole thing with horror. It's the bastard child of the movie genres and we all know it. Which is why- STAC Goat posted:I'm sure that's true but I think practically we probably don't have many people in this field who (a) were poo poo on by the system and (b) were unable to showcase their skill despite that. Sadly those people probably mostly just got lost to history. So I'm not sure what this really accomplishes.* I think you're overestimating Peele's chances here. Horror fans are very forgiving and very willing to go with what's fun over what's 'good'. Though I will also say, I brought this up for adjacent reasons and not as part of your on going thing. I was also under the impression that we would be doing a few rounds with movie vs movie and then switch things up as it goes.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:44
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Darthemed posted:Looks like the short film version of Saw made the list instead of the feature-length. Fixed! I suggest we remove Ed Wood's Necromaniac, which appears to be porn and is also not available anywhere, and replace it with Final Curtain which is available on Prime.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:50
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