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they should scrap tlou2 and the entire company so sony could make a simpathy for lady vengeance videogame imo
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Jun 10, 2020 18:46
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Stux posted:then what points need to be made, what are the valid subjects? Does a work even need to make a point?
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Jun 10, 2020 18:57
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Stux posted:love to get paid to say tlou2 could very easily be garbage you've been posting "ah, but is it this game that's bad ... or any game that tries to be about violence" at anyone who says "yeah, sounds pretty bad" for maybe more than a month (which is a bad argument in the first place) it's a bad grift, move on
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Jun 10, 2020 19:10
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grieving for Gandalf posted:you've been posting "ah, but is it this game that's bad ... or any game that tries to be about violence" at anyone who says "yeah, sounds pretty bad" for maybe more than a month (which is a bad argument in the first place) As someone who's been on the edge of just preordering the drat game already because it seems like it's gonna be something I'll like, Stux is making a valid point and everybody else is just making GBS threads all over themselves to say he's wrong and dumb and the game is bad, then they elaborate literally nowhere beyond that. It's kind of repetitive and dumb, and y'alls are gonna poo poo all over yourselves again when good reviews start coming out.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:16
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Zeta Acosta posted:between the developer who created a system to add more porn to the torture porn game on his free time and druckmann who watched lynching videos on his youth there are some really sick puppies at naughty dog Sick puppies...for you to put out of their misery! We’re excited to reveal one of The Last of Us 2’s new collectible systems, featuring hidden sick or wounded dogs for Ellie to mercy kill with a unique, detailed animation for each one based on in-depth real-life research. Explore and collect all 40 smothered puppies to unlock an achievement and a new “eye gouge” execution animation to use against your enemies in future playthroughs!
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Jun 10, 2020 19:19
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fridge corn posted:Does a work even need to make a point? what? explain what you mean by that, do you mean a game doesnt need to make a point because its a digital toy, or do you mean any piece of media? grieving for Gandalf posted:you've been posting "ah, but is it this game that's bad ... or any game that tries to be about violence" at anyone who says "yeah, sounds pretty bad" for maybe more than a month (which is a bad argument in the first place) i specifically respond to people being extremely broad and who often turn out to actually be talking broadly while you and a couple of other people yell theyre were just talking about only tlou2 constantly. see above for someone literally saying its bad for any game to make a point about violence and who is now asking if a game or possibly any piece of media needs to make a point at all
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Jun 10, 2020 19:20
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Dewgy posted:As someone who's been on the edge of just preordering the drat game already because it seems like it's gonna be something I'll like, Stux is making a valid point and everybody else is just making GBS threads all over themselves to say he's wrong and dumb and the game is bad, then they elaborate literally nowhere beyond that. hope you like it, bud! people are allowed to like whatever games they want. I have a particular fondness for Speed Racer for the SNES, where you alternate between Mario Kart-style racing levels and side-scrolling beat'em up levels
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Jun 10, 2020 19:20
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Stux posted:
yeah but that's fridge corn, you should know better
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Jun 10, 2020 19:22
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cant wait to see why the next time it happens it also doesnt count
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Jun 10, 2020 19:24
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When a studio reaches an absurd number of employees where no one can possibly be responsible for the whole picture, with the only clear purpose being the production of extensively detailed violence and suffering, it stops being human expression and becomes a corporate expression of violence. It is inherently offputting, like watching a robot mutilate a corpse. I think that is what makes people feel more disgusted than engaged about this game, subconsciously or otherwise. There is nothing human in this expression.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:58
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TLOU part 3 on the PS5 is just 15 hours of throwing photorealistic whimpering puppies into an industrial shredder
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Jun 10, 2020 20:23
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Can’t wait to see which reviewer is brave enough to give this game an 8/10 and how much ungodly poo poo they’re gonna catch for it.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:25
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sockpuppetclock posted:When a studio reaches an absurd number of employees where no one can possibly be responsible for the whole picture, with the only clear purpose being the production of extensively detailed violence and suffering, it stops being human expression and becomes a corporate expression of violence. It is inherently offputting, like watching a robot mutilate a corpse. I think that is what makes people feel more disgusted than engaged about this game, subconsciously or otherwise. There is nothing human in this expression. that implies that any big budget game or movie production would be by its very nature incoherent, yet large budget projects are constantly able to produce a structured and understandable result. most of the people working on a big game or film are working on art assets, development, special effects and cgi etc. with the people in charge of the writing and direction being much more limited. thats where the size of the teams come from, in video games its mostly asset creation that bulks out a studios numbers, but the final product will have had a small number of people ultimately responsible for the whole picture. i dont think large budgets and teams mean thats it, its no longer possible to have human expression involved. the amount of people who worked on a film like the titanic absolutely dwarfs any AAA game studio in size but i dont think you could possibly argue the film lacks human expression or a strong authorial voice.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:37
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Dewgy posted:It's kind of repetitive and dumb, and y'alls are gonna poo poo all over yourselves again when good reviews start coming out. I don't think many people in the thread are expecting this game to get poor reviews, so I'm not sure where this is coming from.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:45
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ErrEff posted:I don't think many people in the thread are expecting this game to get poor reviews, so I'm not sure where this is coming from. definitely going to poo poo my pants when IGN or somebody gives it a 10/10
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Jun 10, 2020 21:05
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I'll poo poo my pants no matter what scores it gets
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Jun 10, 2020 21:06
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the only people making GBS threads their pants will be the reviewers who havent seen come and see and will praise this dreck as something more than neil druckmann misery porn fantasies come to life
Zeta Acosta fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 21:12
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ErrEff posted:I don't think many people in the thread are expecting this game to get poor reviews, so I'm not sure where this is coming from. It’s less that I think people expect it to get bad reviews, and more that Zeta Acosta posted:the only people making GBS threads their pants will be the reviewers who havent seen come and see and will praise this dreck as something more than neil druckmann misery porn fantasies come to life is going to get repeated constantly with different words between now and the end of time when it turns out people actually think it’s good.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:19
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Stux posted:what? explain what you mean by that, do you mean a game doesnt need to make a point because its a digital toy, or do you mean any piece of media? Both. Games especially rarely try to make any sort of moral stance or posit some sort of meaningful observation on the human condition. What are the themes and symbolism of Mario Kart et al? Even in literature many works do not seek to make any overt statements either. I just read The Plot Against America and that book definitely is trying to make a point, but take for example something like Mason & Dixon which presents itself as matter of fact without making any judgement on the subject matter. It's just a story about two dudes and it's up to the reader to draw their own meaning from the text
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Jun 10, 2020 21:39
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I just can't get the message of "violence is bad" unless I get to see photorealistic gore, dogs whimpering realistically as you toss molotovs on them, and pregnant women getting a knife to their throat while their girlfriend lies in a pool of their own blood with a smashed face and broken arm.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:47
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Stux posted:that implies that any big budget game or movie production would be by its very nature incoherent, yet large budget projects are constantly able to produce a structured and understandable result. most of the people working on a big game or film are working on art assets, development, special effects and cgi etc. with the people in charge of the writing and direction being much more limited. thats where the size of the teams come from, in video games its mostly asset creation that bulks out a studios numbers, but the final product will have had a small number of people ultimately responsible for the whole picture. i dont think large budgets and teams mean thats it, its no longer possible to have human expression involved. the amount of people who worked on a film like the titanic absolutely dwarfs any AAA game studio in size but i dont think you could possibly argue the film lacks human expression or a strong authorial voice.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:54
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fridge corn posted:Both. Games especially rarely try to make any sort of moral stance or posit some sort of meaningful observation on the human condition. What are the themes and symbolism of Mario Kart et al? what do you mean rarely? like, given the current state of games its probably more often than not that a game has a stance or observation given independent development has been made legitimate and given creators more freedom to make games about whatever they want. if you are saying purely within the AAA space i would agree but also turn and say that that is not a good thing, and we should ask for more from those games, because the current result is games which refuse to say anything about extreme levels of violence they themselves portray and minimise the impact of. sockpuppetclock posted:To be clear, I'm talking about a person's reaction to expressions of violence, not about the coherence of the production, nor the reaction to any other sort of expression. Compartmentalizing the production of violent content to such a degree is exactly what dehumanizes it. The focus on and the extremity of the violence increases the reaction to it. If you then put that violence front and center people will notice how much it lacks humanity and be repulsed. Titanic had violence but was offset by the focus on the human expression of the writing and the actors. Violence, to me, feels like an exception to most other aspects of art: the expresser needs to be understood or else it is simply repulsive. I cannot relate to a conglomerate of departments that create assets that are formed to express extreme violence, I do not know what that is, why is something so inhuman expressing such graphic human violence? I am left disgusted. This is not something where there is somehow an exception, all these huge teams producing realistically violent content disgust me to some degree. but this isnt the argument others were expressing, which was that regardless of context or reasoning the use of violence to express a point was illegitmate, and i think trying to map what you feel onto that doesnt quite apply, otherwise there would be exceptions being made for smaller teams. i also dont feel that there is an exception in certain larger works, your assumption is that there will not be a focus on the writing and the actors and their performances throughout a game that will likely be 15+ hours long, despite tlous entire draw being the character writing and acting. the story and gameplay are not particularly notable, its the writing and the characters. its possible tlou2 isnt that, its possible its just violence with no human expression, but it seems exceptionally unlikely.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:12
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Stux posted:what do you mean rarely? like, given the current state of games its probably more often than not that a game has a stance or observation given independent development has been made legitimate and given creators more freedom to make games about whatever they want. if you are saying purely within the AAA space i would agree but also turn and say that that is not a good thing, and we should ask for more from those games, because the current result is games which refuse to say anything about extreme levels of violence they themselves portray and minimise the impact of. You seem to crave some sort of transformative experience from playing video games and you are complaining that these experiences are not available to you well heres a little suggestion: TRY READING A loving BOOK ffs
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Jun 10, 2020 22:35
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they are available just not often in the AAA space, it would be nice if they were also available there. a book is a different experience to a game and its not wrong to want both.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:39
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Stux posted:they are available just not often in the AAA space, it would be nice if they were also available there. a book is a different experience to a game and its not wrong to want both. Well AAA games are like your middle-brow airport novels or the summer blockbuster. You're just not going to find real talent for artisitc expression in these things because it's not their purpose. But it's also not necessary either, if as you say, more poignant experiences can be found in indie games
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Jun 11, 2020 06:18
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Jun 11, 2020 07:29
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Yes they make these of many horror antagonists.
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Jun 11, 2020 07:31
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Jun 11, 2020 07:35
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Jun 11, 2020 07:40
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tlou2 will be bad because it will fall into the trap of "win when you play, lose in cutscene"
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Jun 11, 2020 08:22
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Unless I missed a trailer or it was in the leaks the violence in this looks pretty middle of the road so far as far as games go  nothing I haven't seen in red dead 2 or some other M rated game. The devs talking about them having to look at gross stuff to do their job all day sounds way worse and games that show little blood and gore have been better able to convey a violence is bad messages than this which just seems to be violence because we're extreme devs who are 2edgy4u like the brutal doom modder.
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Jun 11, 2020 09:48
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The horror of violence is not in the orgiastic moment of commission but in the following hours and years of aftermath. The actual act of violence is loud and spectacular and exciting. Adrenaline is pumping. It is in the PTSD that follows, the recriminations and guilt, the cycles of response and escalation, the holes in people’s lives of missing loved ones that the horror is to be found. It is in the dread of anticipation and the hollow echoes of insincere apology. So when Naughty Dog emphasizes the realism of the gore at the moment of death I find it hard to believe that they know what they are doing. Maybe we’re wrong and they have the storytelling chops to pull it off and the leaks and marketing have put an unfortunate spin on a masterpiece. But the conventions of the genre (stealth action horror game) are working against them. The verbs attached to the controller buttons tend to all be violent. So the core gameplay loop is very likely to be about the anticipation and act of violence and not so much the consequences. Honestly, it’s probably for the best that they’re unlikely to succeed. I’m not sure that we need a generation of AAA gamers traumatized by their virtual crimes, haunted by what they have done.
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Jun 11, 2020 10:38
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doingitwrong posted:
This is my main issue with it too, hard to convey "violence bad" if your game is just the player doing violence in graphic detail to win like every other action game, I'm just going to think the head shot decals look neat as I dome everyone. Even past action games that wanted to have a anti-violence/war message like spec ops or MGS3 where it's just shooting people mainly managed to convey it better by just tricking the player into bad consequences. It would be better if they just didn't bring attention to the violence and left it as a stealth action game that had a message of: we made another stealth action game with a tight narrative like the first one.
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Jun 11, 2020 12:33
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now this is violence
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Jun 11, 2020 12:34
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whoa... looks like the leaks were wrong, and Joel’s fate is taken straight from the ending of Todd Browning‘s Freaks... chilling
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Jun 11, 2020 13:08
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Zeta Acosta posted:they should scrap tlou2 and the entire company so sony could make a simpathy for lady vengeance videogame imo Yeah
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Jun 11, 2020 13:22
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doingitwrong posted:The horror of violence is not in the orgiastic moment of commission but in the following hours and years of aftermath. The actual act of violence is loud and spectacular and exciting. Adrenaline is pumping. It is in the PTSD that follows, the recriminations and guilt, the cycles of response and escalation, the holes in people’s lives of missing loved ones that the horror is to be found. It is in the dread of anticipation and the hollow echoes of insincere apology. as harrow said before, using the conventions of a violent game to specifically create tension between what you are doing and the themes of the game isnt an automatic failure or mistake. the execution of everything within the whole game will be what decides if it is successful at it or not, and it very easily could not be, but the basic concepts shown are not immediately flawed for their existence. fridge corn posted:Well AAA games are like your middle-brow airport novels or the summer blockbuster. You're just not going to find real talent for artisitc expression in these things because it's not their purpose. But it's also not necessary either, if as you say, more poignant experiences can be found in indie games nothing is necessary, but having bigger budget games which arent written like 100% garbage and are instead only 90% garbage would be nice, and we have had examples so it can be done. you can have artistic expression in a large budget game and its not wrong to want that. condemning broad concepts outside of their execution because AAAs cant handle it is blinkered.
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Jun 11, 2020 13:24
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Violent revenge and brutal destruction of your enemies is loving cool
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Jun 11, 2020 13:28
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Stux posted:nothing is necessary, but having bigger budget games which arent written like 100% garbage and are instead only 90% garbage would be nice, and we have had examples so it can be done. you can have artistic expression in a large budget game and its not wrong to want that. condemning broad concepts outside of their execution because AAAs cant handle it is blinkered. What games would you say are only 90% garbage?
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Jun 11, 2020 13:45
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 01:40 |
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Mature deconstruction of the Sonic series where Sonic goes so fast he is always on the right edge of the screen to really drive home the irresponsibility of going fast
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Jun 11, 2020 13:54
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