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are helverins and war dogs the same kit, or does the war dog set have extra chaos bits?
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Jun 10, 2020 16:56
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peer posted:are helverins and war dogs the same kit, or does the war dog set have extra chaos bits? They're the same kit. Pictures of war dogs in the chaos knights codex generally are kitbashed with stuff from the chaos rhino or other chaos vehicles sprues.
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Jun 10, 2020 17:04
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Stephenls posted:They're the same kit. Pictures of war dogs in the chaos knights codex generally are kitbashed with stuff from the chaos rhino or other chaos vehicles sprues. cool, thanks
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Jun 10, 2020 17:26
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xtothez posted:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/10/having-a-blastgw-homepage-post-1/ Naturally, people are already doomsaying that this is the end of days for units of 11 or higher.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:21
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What armies generally run units of 11 or greater? If it's exactly 11 it kinda sucks. If you're running 15+ it's NBD I think.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:23
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The Bee posted:Naturally, people are already doomsaying that this is the end of days for units of 11 or higher. Well, I'm sure a lot of people are going to MSU at 5 models per just because of this rule change.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:26
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I'm sure the new terrain rules will help infantry units survive the increase in potential damage output.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:27
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Gameko posted:What armies generally run units of 11 or greater? Tyranids, Orks, Genestealer Cults. Not sure about Militarum, but wouldn't be surprised.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:29
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Finally a use for combat squads
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Jun 10, 2020 18:32
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Gunder posted:Tyranids, Orks, Genestealer Cults. Not sure about Militarum, but wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, armies that can negate the penalties of big unit bunches or get bonuses for increased unit size at least have reason to not go MSU. Like, comparing Acolytes (who get scaling numbers of special weapons and want a psychic power increasing strength to a hilarious degree targeting many of them at once) and Neophytes (who can get 4/10 of their weapons special on each squad), its pretty obvious who'll be in the big pack and who'll be in the little cheap squads full of mining lasers.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:44
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Gunder posted:Tyranids, Orks, Genestealer Cults. Not sure about Militarum, but wouldn't be surprised. Guard Conscripts are units of 20-30. No one uses 'em right now because they're the same cost as regular Infantry with worse stats and a penalty to receiving Orders. With the price changes for 9th, though, that may change and make them a more useful choice. Chaos goes over 10 models a lot too. Cultists, Tzangors, all the lesser daemon types can all be taken in big mobs. I think Kroot in the Tau lists can too, come to think of it. So can Guardians for Eldar, and some of the Dark Eldar mob units like Wracks, I think.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:44
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Ah, yes, people are going to stop using big squads of things they could have taken as MSUs to fill out detachments such as Everything that wants to be a big squad has bonuses for being a big squad that aren't going to go away on a list building level because a battle cannon was mean to you, even if that bonus is "I lived, bitch" when targeted.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:46
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A lot of it is going to depend on how other rules interact. Like, orks were already starting to not use boyz as much because they weren't getting across the table often enough to matter in the marine meta. If this makes them less likely, then you may not see boyz at all at a comp level (since a minimum sized unit of grots costs less and was more useful). If the terrain rules help negate that, then it might not matter much.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:02
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It also depends on how the detachment rules end up. If it's as expected and each detachment must be paid for, non-minimum squad sizes may used more often by more armies, notwithstanding the blast weapon change.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:07
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Terrain, and also the ability to deep strike anything, and since you don't need to take minimum size units of Grots to fill out battalions for CP anymore there's no similar compelling reason to take them in the numbers that were crowding out boyz. EDIT: which is to say that the reason to not take Boyz has nothing to do with squad size and everything to do with competing factors that may or may not matter in 9th.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:07
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Yeah, agreed there. The original concept of detachments and CP was a sound one, but it quickly turned into finagling unit sizes to win harder. One brigade should be the most cost effective option. Three brigades should not, in turn, be three times as cost effective.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:20
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Strobe posted:Terrain, and also the ability to deep strike anything, and since you don't need to take minimum size units of Grots to fill out battalions for CP anymore there's no similar compelling reason to take them in the numbers that were crowding out boyz. Eh, grot shields will still exist. Unless grots get a huge points hike compared to boyz, then they're more useful for your minimum troops units. Boyz are useful primarily because of the sheer number of attacks you can get with them when you have big ol' squads (both the extra attack you get, plus how much better any buffs become when they apply to thirty models). If you're not likely to see that many survive to make the attacks, then their utility goes way down, and you might as well go all grots and spend the points on units that have a better chance of earning their points back. Again, that assumes that there aren't other rules considerations that will help boyz survive. It sounds like the terrain rules are going to make it a lot harder for other armies from deleting them from all the way across the map, which will help a lot. I'm not trying to be Mr. Doom and Gloom. I'm just saying that boyz in MSUs are generally not worthwhile compared to taking grots and spending the points somewhere else.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:27
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Now i want to somehow field 3 Brigades worth of units in a 2000 point game
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Jun 10, 2020 20:27
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JackMann posted:Eh, grot shields will still exist. Unless grots get a huge points hike compared to boyz, then they're more useful for your minimum troops units. Boyz are useful primarily because of the sheer number of attacks you can get with them when you have big ol' squads (both the extra attack you get, plus how much better any buffs become when they apply to thirty models). If you're not likely to see that many survive to make the attacks, then their utility goes way down, and you might as well go all grots and spend the points on units that have a better chance of earning their points back. My point wasn't really intended as a "No, actually, Boyz will be good". It was directed entirely toward the fact that Blast weapons are going to do absolutely nothing to the size of Boyz squads taken. You're not going to take MSUs of Boyz because Blast exists.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:29
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Strobe posted:My point wasn't really intended as a "No, actually, Boyz will be good". It was directed entirely toward the fact that Blast weapons are going to do absolutely nothing to the size of Boyz squads taken. You're not going to take MSUs of Boyz because Blast exists. Oh, then yeah, we're agreed. If they stop taking max-sized units of boyz, it's because they're not taking boyz at all. But again, way too early to make that call.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:32
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I think the real thing to think about is how much would you load up on anti infantry blast weapons in an all comers list? Something that is super good against Orks and Tyranids but not against most other armies isn't going to be a wild distuption for anything. If you are loading up to tailor against a specific opponent you are playing a narrative game at that point anyway.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:38
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I think the real thing to think about is how much would you load up on anti infantry blast weapons in an all comers list? Something that is super good against Orks and Tyranids but not against most other armies isn't going to be a wild distuption for anything. At long last the Missile Launcher's day has arrived
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Jun 10, 2020 21:13
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combing the anti-tank of a worse lascannon with the anti horde of 3 rapid firing bolters
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Jun 10, 2020 21:15
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Gonna be a fun few weeks of a rules leak and everyone delcaring xyz garbage forever.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:54
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I think the real thing to think about is how much would you load up on anti infantry blast weapons in an all comers list? Something that is super good against Orks and Tyranids but not against most other armies isn't going to be a wild distuption for anything. Battle Cannons aren't suddenly worse against MSUs tho. They're the same as they are now, which is fine.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:09
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Yeast posted:Battle Cannons aren't suddenly worse against MSUs tho. OK?
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Jun 10, 2020 22:58
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got in another round of our ongoing tabletop sim 40k game, i was asking for help choosing aggressors or cannons or not a while back after our disastrous first round we did pretty good, managed to wrap and trap a unit for ragnar and his intercessors and then everything else miraculously weathered a turn of ork gunline. my eliminators got finished off by some charging sisters but shrike only lost 2 wounds and mangled a squad of zephyrim, ragnars squad managed to survive with 2 models intact and ragnar healthy and he massacred the cannoness and pals who had come at him my smash captain survives A SECOND ROUND of shooting having 1W with his 3++ and my librarian wiped a squad with smite and is sitting on our objective so we pulled ahead by 1 point rules question: if 2 units charge an enemy unit and one of them kill the enemy before the other attacks, can the second unit that charged but did not attack consolidate? its sorta confusing cause i'd say no since they don't get a fight phase, but the fight phase rules say "Select a unit that charged OR is within 1 inch" for the fight phase, so can you select the unit that charges and skip straight to consolidate?
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Jun 10, 2020 23:14
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Guess we can post now that NOVA Open has been cancelled. 
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Jun 10, 2020 23:23
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Simmer down, I'm not having a go at you. I was responding to your point.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:34
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So what Necron kits look like they are being replaced? Warriors for sure, anything else?
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Jun 10, 2020 23:34
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OhDearGodNo posted:Guess we can post now that NOVA Open has been cancelled. It was clearly the right choice, little crazy they waited so long. Hopefully people back the charitable foundation heavily this year.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:35
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TKIY posted:So what Necron kits look like they are being replaced? Warriors for sure, anything else? Probably destroyers, scarabs look a bit new too. The monolith in the big group image looks updated & new as well.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:37
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Yeast posted:It was clearly the right choice, little crazy they waited so long. I didn’t donate all, I had spent quite a bit on there however I did leave a decent contribution. I try to also help out in other ways that I can.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:38
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Communist Thoughts posted:
They get to both pile-in and consolidate when it is is their turn for activation as long as they made a successful charge.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:40
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Someone post the new destroyer and that old concept art
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Jun 10, 2020 23:40
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Funzo posted:To be fair, the good X-Wing apps and list builders are third party. The official app is terrible. Ah I left before Mk2 - I assumed they'd just adopted a good one, but X-Wing has amazing fan support for apps - I guess a function of there being a (relatively) limited set of cards and upgrades, as opposed to the humongous sprawl that is the Black Library the Battlescribe guys keep going.
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Jun 11, 2020 00:10
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For_Great_Justice posted:Gonna be a fun few weeks of a rules leak and everyone delcaring xyz garbage forever. the clubs don't make the man, I'll be garbage forever
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Jun 11, 2020 00:11
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Yeast posted:Simmer down, I'm not having a go at you. I was responding to your point.  The internet is a weird place.
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Jun 11, 2020 01:15
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Giant Isopod posted:They get to both pile-in and consolidate when it is is their turn for activation as long as they made a successful charge. Sweet, my sick nasty ragnar and intercessors wrap and trap was legal! Thanks goonhammer
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Jun 11, 2020 02:36
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Is running Celestine and St Katherine's mardi gras at the same time dumb as poo poo or cool as hell?
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Jun 11, 2020 02:40
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