|
Still want that leggoh version of the Agamemnon
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 01:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 08:52 |
|
|
lmao the newcomers absolutely tearing garibaldi to shreds is funny as hell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 02:00
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:That was a plot point, was it not? B5 was the match of any younger races war ship after it got it's defense grid updates in GROPOS (I think?), but it took heavy damage in both the fight against the Centauri Cruiser, and the attack by EA ships in Severed Dreams. B4 in contrast was much bigger and better armed, and so was able to serve as a deep space station for the Minbari in the war against the Shadows. I don't know if this was RPG info or something, but I seem to recall Babylon 4's defense grid being designed to fight off three full capital ships and their fighters, while as noted B5 could only handle one after it finally got its full weapons compliment.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 02:09
|
|
|
McCloud posted:lmao the newcomers absolutely tearing garibaldi to shreds is funny as hell. I admit I haven't watched b5 in several years and Season 1 is mostly a blur to me, but I remember Garibaldi being really sternly anti-fasc once Earth really hits the ground running on being fasc, so its been wild seeing them go so heavy on him being an ACAB Cop. Is he just a full-blown Actual Libertarian? I remember him grumbling about bureaucratic annoyances and espousing his "eye for an eye," model of justice to Delenn, so that would synch with him despising full-blown fascism but still being a right-wing idiot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 03:52
|
|
|
TraderStav posted:Still want that leggoh version of the Agamemnon Legomemnon
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 04:01
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I admit I haven't watched b5 in several years and Season 1 is mostly a blur to me, but I remember Garibaldi being really sternly anti-fasc once Earth really hits the ground running on being fasc, so its been wild seeing them go so heavy on him being an ACAB Cop. Is he just a full-blown Actual Libertarian? I remember him grumbling about bureaucratic annoyances and espousing his "eye for an eye," model of justice to Delenn, so that would synch with him despising full-blown fascism but still being a right-wing idiot. Given how he acts later, especially in that one episode when they're just AI versions of themselves I think that the fash scent on him this early is a combination of those of us having lived the last 25 years getting a keener sense of smell combined with them still flushing out the character and relying on the actor himself to kind of fill in the blank. My read of Garibaldi the character is that he really doesn't give a poo poo about the state, he just hates people preying on each other and he's willing to be a shitbag about it. Which, in the end since he's a cop, is going to look pretty fash. I wonder if their opinions will change, and then change again later.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 04:09
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Legomemnon Welp. Now I have to get it and put that title card with it. Started my rewatch today. Last watch was only six to eight months ago so a lot is still fresh in my mind. Going to be great going through and not hating Kosh since I now know the big picture.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 04:09
|
|
|
TraderStav posted:Welp. Now I have to get it and put that title card with it. It OK to kind of still hate Kosh because the Vorlons are horrid assholes and it took Sheridan getting in his face to make him stop being a tool for their horrible scheme and actually do something helpful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 04:17
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I admit I haven't watched b5 in several years and Season 1 is mostly a blur to me, but I remember Garibaldi being really sternly anti-fasc once Earth really hits the ground running on being fasc, so its been wild seeing them go so heavy on him being an ACAB Cop. Is he just a full-blown Actual Libertarian? I remember him grumbling about bureaucratic annoyances and espousing his "eye for an eye," model of justice to Delenn, so that would synch with him despising full-blown fascism but still being a right-wing idiot. He very much strikes me as the kind of guy that's "tough on crime" because of his own experiences as a cop and doesn't really think about politics otherwise unless it relates to making his own life easier, so kinda? Sanguinia posted:It OK to kind of still hate Kosh because the Vorlons are horrid assholes and it took Sheridan getting in his face to make him stop being a tool for their horrible scheme and actually do something helpful. I think you're being a bit unfair here. There were rules of engagement between the Vorlons and the Shadows that iirc meant they didn't engage each other directly, presumably a rule that had been intact for millenia. They'd been chipping away at this rule for a long time but a direct confrontation would mean their cold war would escalate into full on genocidal war. The vorlons and the shadows understood what it would mean if they attacked and killed one another directly, and more to the point, Kosh knew that his life would be forfeit if he got involved.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 04:55
|
|
|
Garibaldi’s a 90’s TV cop and it is a bad time to be a 90’s TV cop.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 05:15
|
|
|
McCloud posted:I think you're being a bit unfair here. There were rules of engagement between the Vorlons and the Shadows that iirc meant they didn't engage each other directly, presumably a rule that had been intact for millenia. They'd been chipping away at this rule for a long time but a direct confrontation would mean their cold war would escalate into full on genocidal war. Lets not forget the ultimate purpose of those rules though: the entire point of the cycle and the war is to prove an ideological point. Its like the One Dollar Bet from Trading Places, the Old Rich Guys don't care about the lives that they're destroying, they care about proving their belief system superior regardless of the cost to those they're using as pawns. Now, granted, Kosh seemed to be a legitimate good person. At the end of the day when the chips were down he stood for the Young Races interests rather than the dumb game and gave Sheridan what he needed. Not only that, he expressed remorse for doing things the way he had done them. Sheridan helped him recognize that he'd been wrong to demand things be done HIS way rather than Sheridan's way, and in retrospect with our eventual discovery of what the Vorlons and Shadows are really up to I like to interpret it as him realizing that the whole thing was wrong, and in his own oblique way that the "set in his ways," he's talking about was the entire manipulation of the Young Races into fighting the war for ideology rather than actual salvation. But I think its fair to call Kosh out for being the instrument of the Vorlon's grand design up to that point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 05:18
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:Sheridan helped him recognize that he'd been wrong to demand things be done HIS way rather than Sheridan's way, and in retrospect with our eventual discovery of what the Vorlons and Shadows are really up to I like to interpret it as him realizing that the whole thing was wrong, and in his own oblique way that the "set in his ways," he's talking about was the entire manipulation of the Young Races into fighting the war for ideology rather than actual salvation. Yea this whole bit is very clearly spelled out in Sheridan's dream with his father.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 05:25
|
|
|
Garibaldi is a great character. He's kind of a dick, but I think they're going a bit overboard in the thread due to current ACAB sentiments. When he's literally antifa later they may come around. Season 4 is so rough with what happens to him.  It's still hard to watch.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 05:48
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Garibaldi is a great character. He's kind of a dick, but I think they're going a bit overboard in the thread due to current ACAB sentiments. When he's literally antifa later they may come around. Given what they think of him now they’ll be baying for his crucifixion in S4.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 06:08
|
|
|
Lmao yep
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 06:18
|
|
|
Jedit posted:There is a canon illustration of the Babylon station available. It's pretty close to the design for Babylon 3 in that series of images, although it's not easy to pick out all the details because it's a three quarter profile from the front and against a starfield. ...may I see it
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 06:30
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:
Oh for sure, but Kosh at least actually seemed to care about the younger races. Contrast that with his replacement who saw them more like cattle. It is rather telling though, that even when Kosh is trying his best to help, he's still being a manipulative SOB about it. The way he dealt with G'kar never sat right with me, for instance. Midjack posted:Given what they think of him now they’ll be baying for his crucifixion in S4. Well, that will depend what they'll make of Sheridan
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 06:51
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Season 4 is so rough with what happens to him. Eh, yes and no. I say this as a recovering alcoholic who got sober in 2009, his relapse is almost comic book-ish in how over-the-top it's portrayed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 06:53
|
|
|
Timby posted:Eh, yes and no. I say this as a recovering alcoholic who got sober in 2009, his relapse is almost comic book-ish in how over-the-top it's portrayed. The relapse is S5, I think they meant the whole "works for Edgar Industries" thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 06:56
|
|
|
pentyne posted:The relapse is S5, I think they meant the whole "works for Edgar Industries" thing. Goes to show that it's been almost 20 years since I watched the show cover-to-cover. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 07:12
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Yea this whole bit is very clearly spelled out in Sheridan's dream with his father. Goddamn but that's a good scene. I'm almost sorry they wasted the actor on, what, two scenes as Sheridan's dad. He's absolutely perfect delivering Kosh's last message.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 07:37
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:Goddamn but that's a good scene. I'm almost sorry they wasted the actor on, what, two scenes as Sheridan's dad. He's absolutely perfect delivering Kosh's last message. The bit in the cast commentary on that episode, when Boxleitner says he never understood the scene but then upon re-watching during the recording of the commentary that Kosh was telepathically messaging Sheridan, is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 07:40
|
|
|
Timby posted:The bit in the cast commentary on that episode, when Boxleitner says he never understood the scene but then upon re-watching during the recording of the commentary that Kosh was telepathically messaging Sheridan, is amazing. Oh yes, that part is amazing. It was the first time I really appreciated buying the expensive DVDs. It's the only show I have on record at home, and I'm glad I'm not at the mercy of distributors who may make it free some months and cost 30 bucks per season some other months. There are advantages to having physical possession of some media.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 07:57
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Oh yes, that part is amazing. It was the first time I really appreciated buying the expensive DVDs. It's the only show I have on record at home, and I'm glad I'm not at the mercy of distributors who may make it free some months and cost 30 bucks per season some other months. There are advantages to having physical possession of some media. I used to buy DVDs of tv and movies on the reg, but now I have nowhere to keep them so I haven't done it in years. Might be changing soon thought 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 07:59
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Oh yes, that part is amazing. It was the first time I really appreciated buying the expensive DVDs. It's the only show I have on record at home, and I'm glad I'm not at the mercy of distributors who may make it free some months and cost 30 bucks per season some other months. There are advantages to having physical possession of some media. I bought them first-run, back in like 2002, so I'm sure there's massive disc rot on some of them. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 08:30
|
|
|
The remnant of Kosh Naranek forces Ulkesh Kosh off the station to their deaths to protect everyone as well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 14:24
|
|
|
pentyne posted:The relapse is S5, I think they meant the whole "works for Edgar Industries" thing. Yeah I mean Bester mindfucking him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 15:44
|
|
|
McCloud posted:
Can't wait to see a line like 'pompous caricature of a picturesque army man that screams american ancestry' after ep 1. Oh man I hated him dearly for a few episodes. ps to not be misconstrued, I hated his character depiction, it was almost as a bad joke compared to Sinclair's character Erulisse fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jun 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 16:48
|
|
|
You can't hate Sheridan for long, he's too hamtastic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 16:53
|
|
|
Boxleitner was an inspired choice for that role.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 17:00
|
|
|
Timby posted:Goes to show that it's been almost 20 years since I watched the show cover-to-cover. why Timby posted:I bought them first-run, back in like 2002, so I'm sure there's massive disc rot on some of them. Ah, that's probably true, I've already had to re-buy season 2 due to a bad disc.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 17:28
|
|
|
Tighclops posted:...may I see it Yeah same, I've only ever seen the little bit of it from in the beginning:  Definitely looks like it's got the zero-g loading dock bits on top and bottom though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Given how he acts later, especially in that one episode when they're just AI versions of themselves I think that the fash scent on him this early is a combination of those of us having lived the last 25 years getting a keener sense of smell combined with them still flushing out the character and relying on the actor himself to kind of fill in the blank. He fits into a profile that's gotten a lot of attention lately, and that is probably a driver of some of the systemic problems in American policing: he's very much an "Us vs. Them" kind of thinker. It's just that "Us" is the team of cops he's put together, not Nightwatch or Earthforce. If one of his officers were accused of excessive force, he'd defend him, because it's his team and "Us vs. Them," but that can live comfortably with him hating the use of excessive force by "Them" groups. That's part of how S4 works: heighten Garibaldi's paranoia and push him away from his friends = make his friends and allies on B5 into "Them" to force him into leaving. He's prejudiced, absolutely, but pretty solidly in the "Us vs. Them" way. A telepath on his team is just different from all the other telepaths, for example; he shows remarkably little paranoia about Lyta or Talia when they're "on side" despite his general attitude toward telepaths. It's the kind of prejudice that allows people to seriously claim they aren't racist because they have "X" friends, for whatever X applies. Note that what really pisses him off about Nightwatch is that it splits his team up. Before that point, he doesn't seem to see a problem with allowing his people to join the organization.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 18:47
|
|
|
TraderStav posted:Still want that leggoh version of the Agamemnon Yeah in completely unsurprising news that never showed up. Oh well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 19:07
|
|
|
power crystals posted:Yeah in completely unsurprising news that never showed up. Oh well. Sorry to hear that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 19:13
|
|
|
power crystals posted:Yeah in completely unsurprising news that never showed up. Oh well. Oh man, that sucks. I was hoping by mentioning that the poster who dropped the coin for it would chime in with a sweet pic. Hope you were able to do a claim on your credit card.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
Fascism tends to be a lot about subjective judgements, so if Garibaldi didn't have the right flavor of hatred in him or if the fascists somehow offended him on an unrelated level, it'd be easy for him to end up on the other side from the fascists. Garibaldi might've been convinced on a "humans first" basis, but he had close ties to martians, so Earth cracking down on them definitely pushed him away from the movement. I do think he embodies that kind of "order at any cost" attitude that is part of what has been empowering police brutality, although his police force is more integrated into the community than most American police these days, and I think police in the 90s hadn't developed the attitude of "shoot first, ask questions later" that is dominant now. I can still totally see Garibaldi reflexively defending his guys against allegations of abuse or flying a thin blue line flag. I think that the 'Clarkists' just generally didn't prioritize cultivating Babylon 5 as a stronghold for the movement. They sent Nightwatch out to everywhere there was military personnel, but all they had to work with was an offer of extra pay, no special privileges or rallies. They were happy with appointing Sheridan because they thought it was an insult to the Minbari and didn't give it much more thought, since alien-haters probably wouldn't prioritize the space-UN for anything.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 19:45
|
|
|
Yeah, police being violent sure isn't new but the level of rapid militarization is a 21st century thing. It was beginning back then but I remember when I was a kid, the LAPD having an APC with a battering ram on the front and Darryl Gates being all in on military poo poo was a big deal people talked about because it was so unusual.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 19:50
|
|
|
One picture of the Babylon Station, as requested. Apologies for the quality, it was photographed from a book. This image also predates ITB, so while it was canon at the time the show takes precedence. However, B1 is canonically meant to have collapsed during construction of the outer rotating sections - at the time it was blamed on substandard materials; people didn't question the incident, or B2's fusion reactor explosion, until B3 was destroyed by more obvious bombing - so it could be that this is "concept art" of the finished product while the photo from ITB is only of the central superstructure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 08:52 |
|
|
I think they're going to find the earth arc a little uncomfortably real
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2020 20:50
|
|