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Arsenic Lupin posted:Honest to goodness, get a marble cheese board. They're cheap, they're tough (mine's lasted 35 years), and it is an absolute joy to do sticky doughs on; your scraper slides across the surface and the dough peels off. And when you do make biscuits or pastry, it's a cool surface without any pre-chilling. Ok this is a great idea thanks. Having the ability to chill it is really good.
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Jun 11, 2020 16:23
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Working with dough directly on the countertop looks so nice and simple, but it just feels wrong to me, I don't know why. I use a big flexible plastic cutting mat and just throw it in the dishwasher when I'm done. A couple of wet paper towels underneath keep it from slipping, mostly. I've got another dutch oven boule rising right now. Gonna take my first stab at scoring a design this afternoon.
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Jun 11, 2020 16:49
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Lester Shy posted:Working with dough directly on the countertop looks so nice and simple, but it just feels wrong to me, I don't know why. I use a big flexible plastic cutting mat and just throw it in the dishwasher when I'm done. A couple of wet paper towels underneath keep it from slipping, mostly. Yep even if I clean the counter with soap and water and more water, it feels like I'm either getting old cleaning stuff on my food or some left over soap, or dirt...being able to rinse whatever i'm using as a surface is critical to making me feel it's food safe.
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Jun 11, 2020 17:01
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Lester Shy posted:Working with dough directly on the countertop looks so nice and simple, but it just feels wrong to me, I don't know why. I use a big flexible plastic cutting mat and just throw it in the dishwasher when I'm done. A couple of wet paper towels underneath keep it from slipping, mostly. I can empathize if you're stuck with some old formica that conveyed with your house from the 70s or earlier. I've not had issues with stuff grabbing my granite. On the other hand, I absolutely wouldn't work directly on my concrete countertops outside. For one, they have some divots from my screwing up my screeding...
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Jun 11, 2020 17:45
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I can empathize if you're stuck with some old formica that conveyed with your house from the 70s or earlier. I've not had issues with stuff grabbing my granite. also I've read that concrete is chemically food safe.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:00
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Done sourdough a couple of times now, with this recipe; https://hostessatheart.com/sourdough-bread-recipe/ It's a starter recipe, what would make things more advanced. Can I just autolyse the water and floor for this one for a few hours? Or is that redundant here with the long proof?
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Jun 11, 2020 18:15
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Cyrano4747 posted:I think my current issue is avoiding deflating the dough too much after the bulk. When I do the final round of folds she recommends it always feels like I kill the dough too much getting it out of the bowl and into my cast iron. (I don’t have a banneton so I just let it hang out in the cast iron in the fridge for a day) You do lose some volume going from basket or bowl to counter to cast iron. But as long as you're retaining bubbles on those final folds, you're probably fine.
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Jun 11, 2020 21:11
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Cyrano4747 posted:I think my current issue is avoiding deflating the dough too much after the bulk. When I do the final round of folds she recommends it always feels like I kill the dough too much getting it out of the bowl and into my cast iron. (I don’t have a banneton so I just let it hang out in the cast iron in the fridge for a day) I was using a tea towel in a mesh sieve previously. I used waaaay too much flour but it’s pretty easy to brush that off after cooking. As I understand it, it’s desirable to have some airflow around your dough (but I’m not certain why), hence the banneton/colander/sieve I grabbed a banneton the other day when I was in the shop for something else. I really don’t think it was necessary, I didn’t see any huge difference in ease of use from my sieve method.
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Jun 12, 2020 06:24
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LifeSunDeath posted:also I've read that concrete is chemically food safe. I'm guessing you mean not food safe? I mean, at least not by default. I had used a food-safe sealant on mine, but another reason I still won't work directly on it is that, well, the sealant is flaking off. I'm not going to do anything about it and until the weather is back in the 60-80F range again in 4+ months.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:02
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I'm guessing you mean not food safe? I mean, at least not by default. I had used a food-safe sealant on mine, but another reason I still won't work directly on it is that, well, the sealant is flaking off. I'm not going to do anything about it and until the weather is back in the 60-80F range again in 4+ months. yep sorry not food safe. I was thinking that maybe it was directly toxic, but i'm reading now it's certain sealants, silica dust (which sealer handles), and pores retaining Bactria that make it a poor food surface. That said I love the look of concrete countertops.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:13
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LifeSunDeath posted:That said I love the look of concrete countertops. I love the exposed aggregate appearance--or even an exposed aggregate using decorative materials. I had originally gotten a variety of light/clear refined glass specially ordered for my countertop mix that I was going to grind down and expose. My wife, however, wanted pretty much just light-gray countertops with nothing added, so now I guess that's soil filler. It also sabotaged my plan to smooth out irregularities in my screeding. So as it stands, I have to use boards and mats when working with my stuff outside. On the other hand, a messy day in the outdoor kitchen means I just blast everything with a garden hose.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:18
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I love the exposed aggregate appearance--or even an exposed aggregate using decorative materials. I had originally gotten a variety of light/clear refined glass specially ordered for my countertop mix that I was going to grind down and expose. My wife, however, wanted pretty much just light-gray countertops with nothing added, so now I guess that's soil filler. It also sabotaged my plan to smooth out irregularities in my screeding. So as it stands, I have to use boards and mats when working with my stuff outside. On the other hand, a messy day in the outdoor kitchen means I just blast everything with a garden hose. my girlfriend wants an outdoor kitchen badly (we're renting though so can't), and I want a brick oven badly. what I'm saying is, cheers for living the best life 
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Jun 12, 2020 18:25
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I rent also and have a "temporary" outdoor kitchen that is an old stainless steel sink on a stand with a faucet hooked up to the hose bib with the BBQ next to it on another stand with a piece of Corian as a table top.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:36
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Jun 12, 2020 23:02
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My attempt at Weissman's Hokkaido rolls. They didn't rise as much as I'd hoped; probably shouldn't have crowded the pan so much. Easily the most delicious thing I've made in my short baking career though. I could've eaten the entire pan in one go. I think they're about 250 calories each.  
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Jun 13, 2020 23:43
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I think I'm getting the hang of this:
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Jun 14, 2020 00:21
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:I think I'm getting the hang of this: These look incredible.
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Jun 14, 2020 00:25
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Honestly, I've still got two things I'm trying to improve on: * The bagels are still really fluffy, closer to a loaf of bread vs. the chewiness of a bagel. I'm already using 100% bread flour, and I'm kneading the dough for 10 minutes or so, so I probably need to increase how long I'm kneading things. The crust on it is pretty spot on now that I've increased how long I boil them for before baking to about 2 min per side, as well as adding a bit of baking soda to the water before boiling (I'd use lye but can't quite get my hands on any). * I'm still not able to get shaping right, in that the hole in the middle of the bagels almost always comes close to closing. Do I need to finger the holes more? Or is that an issue that'd go away with more kneading? MadFriarAvelyn fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 03:36
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:Do I need to finger the holes more? Or is that an issue that'd go away with more kneading? 
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Jun 14, 2020 04:17
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This was a very wet dough and I’m always surprised at any oven spring. Really messed up by being too confident when mixing my levain and forgot how wet it mine is compared to his. ALSO I’m in the exact opposite climate from TPL. I don’t own any bannetons so I do the fermentation on parchment in my stainless Dutch oven and a covered mixing bowl so they always are very “rustic” looking This was the intro sourdough loaf at TPL, but all white. 
cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 05:15
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:Honestly, I've still got two things I'm trying to improve on: Those holes are perfectly fine. If you really want bigger holes, I'd suggest forming the bagels from a rope rather than by tearing a hole in a dough ball. I can't tell which you did here, but I've found that making a rope is better for controlling the hole size. Moatman fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 07:22
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:* The bagels are still really fluffy, closer to a loaf of bread vs. the chewiness of a bagel. I'm afraid of bagel recipes because bagels in Yankeeland are a completely different beast than elsewhere. So it's possible you did everything correctly . . . according to the recipe you used. Edit: Can you share a picture of the cross section of one? My bread porn folder is not getting enough new material. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 08:06
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This week's loaf 500g bread flour 200g mashed pumpkin 200g started 100g oat flour (blended rolled oats) Nothing crazy on the make, but quite enjoyable and easy enough to make Forgive my pictures, my upload situation is lacking 
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Jun 14, 2020 11:42
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:Honestly, I've still got two things I'm trying to improve on: Having grown up in Bagel Country, I can say fairly confidently that the best ones usually have a tight hole... OK now you're making me do it. (But seriously, at real bagel places there is not a pronounced hole at all.) Going for my first all bread flour sour dough today. The recipe I've used calls for 90g of wheat flour, which I think has knocked down the hydration of my dough and made it easier to handle. I've also consistently cheated by sprinkling a bit of instant yeast when folding in my starter, which I am going to skip today. No more easy mode!
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Jun 14, 2020 14:23
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Edit: Can you share a picture of the cross section of one? My bread porn folder is not getting enough new material.   
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Jun 14, 2020 17:39
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I knead my bagels in the stand mixer for nearly 20 minutes most of the time
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Jun 14, 2020 18:17
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The lye does make a big, big difference. (My brother makes his own bagels, so I'm basing this on talking to him.) Search for "food grade lye" at Amazon. Dr. Harold McGee (genuflects) came up with a method of making baking soda more effective. See The Splendid Table for details; scroll to "Baked baking soda". The article is for pretzels, but the same principles would apply to bagels.
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Jun 14, 2020 18:24
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:Honestly, I've still got two things I'm trying to improve on: I completely forgot to hit send on my edit last night. Whoops. (e: and I did it again) If you're sure the alkaline water is what you want, it might be worth using sodium carbonate (easy to make at home by cooking baking soda at 250F for an hour or two) as the water additive. It's massively more basic than baking soda but less than lye (and it's safer, too). The problem with using alkaline water is that it can make it taste a bit pretzely and it can brown pretty heavily if you aren't careful. I've had good luck with honey, but other syrups should work, too.
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Jun 14, 2020 19:37
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 Yesterday's sourdough. Pleased with it, went for a longer loaf for more even sized slices instead of a boule. Wonder if I can get it to rise more?
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Jun 14, 2020 19:50
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i think malt powder is a bigger factor in bagel texture than baking soda v lye in the water
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Jun 14, 2020 19:50
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for the crumb maybe, but not the crust
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Jun 14, 2020 20:05
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Time posted:i think malt powder is a bigger factor in bagel texture than baking soda v lye in the water So the recipe I've been using is based off of Joshua Weissman's recipe here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8j-ZUp7KD0 3 1/2 Cups Bread Flour 1 1/3 Cups Lukewarm Water 1 Tablespoon Active Dry Yeast 1 Tablespoon Sugar 1 Tablespoon Kosher Salt 1 Tablespoon Malt Extract Syrup 1/3 Teaspoon Baking Soda 1 Egg Yolk 1 Teaspoon Heavy Cream Whatever seasonings you want to apply to the bagels before baking (poppy seeds, sesame seeds, etc, etc) Mix water, sugar, salt, malt extra syrup and yeast in a bowl and let proof for ten minutes. Add in bread flour and mix until a shaggy dough forms. Turn over onto a floured surface and knead for ten minutes. Place into a lightly oiled bowl, cover, and let rise in a warm environment for an hour or until doubled in size. Punch down, then turn over onto work surface and divide into eight equal sized parts. Stretch the parts over themselves and roll them into a ball, then pinch a hole in their center with your fingers and roll it around two fingers until sufficiently wide. Let bagels rest for ten minutes while bringing a pot of water + above mentioned baking soda to a boil. Place each bagel into the boiling water for about two minutes per side (being careful not to overcrowd the pot with bagels). Remove bagels from pot and place on greased baking sheet. Brush with egg wash made from above egg yolk and heavy cream, then top with seasonings. Bake at 425 F for 25 minutes or until golden brown. Based on the above suggestions, the next time I try this I'll: * Double my kneading time from 10 minutes to 20 minutes * Bake my baking soda into sodium carbonate instead of just using baking soda in my boiling water * If neither of those get me close to the result I'm looking for, pivot and either try the rope method or use food grade lye instead Thanks everyone! MadFriarAvelyn fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 20:06
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Time posted:i think malt powder is a bigger factor in bagel texture than baking soda v lye in the water but the baking soda isn't really for texture it's for browning...I think.
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Jun 14, 2020 20:07
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I'm not sure how I feel about that egg wash, but it's on the not good side of things. The boil is what makes your bagel surface basic.
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Jun 14, 2020 20:21
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Moatman posted:Those holes are perfectly fine. If you really want bigger holes, I'd suggest forming the bagels from a rope rather than by tearing a hole in a dough ball. I can't tell which you did here, but I've found that making a rope is better for controlling the hole size. Agreed on both accounts -- rope is easier to shape from, and what you've got is fine. If you have a preference for a bigger hole, sure, but most good places by me have the hole kind of "touch" from both sides.
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Jun 14, 2020 20:22
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Lye is really unnecessary for bagels. It's a much bigger deal for making breads like pretzels. The malt or similar syrup and boiling water do much more for the traditional bagel than lye would. For what it's worth you don't even need lye for pretzel baking - sodium carbonate (yes, by baking bicarb) is absolutely good enough.
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Jun 14, 2020 20:33
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:for the crumb maybe, but not the crust also the crust. the reinhardt recipe produces some perfect bagels and it only needs baking soda and maybe some malt syrup in the water https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/bagels-366757
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Jun 14, 2020 21:08
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:So the recipe I've been using is based off of Joshua Weissman's recipe here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8j-ZUp7KD0 You also might want to try a cold retard, most everything I can find on oldschool bagels mentions it, and it can't hurt. FWIW, this (or a related version that skips the sponge) is the recipe I generally follow: https://smittenkitchen.com/2007/09/bronx-worthy-bagels/, and it has my mom's seal of approval (she grew up in a Jewish family in the Jewish part of Brooklyn in the 50s, so she's the closest thing I have to an authoritative source). mediaphage posted:Lye is really unnecessary for bagels. It's a much bigger deal for making breads like pretzels. The malt or similar syrup and boiling water do much more for the traditional bagel than lye would. Just make sure you remember to add the soda before the water boils. That wasn't fun to clean up. e: gently caress it I'm making some bagels tonight. It's been a few weeks Moatman fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 21:15
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I've been making sourdough for a couple weeks now, trying to get the hang of it. Right now my issue is that the dough kinda spreads out when I invert from the banneton into the pan, leaving me with not much oven spring. I think I just need to get better at shaping the dough and creating tension on the top of the loaf. Anyways, what I wanted to ask is: does anyone have a preferred loaf pan that they like using? I'm having fun making boules but as I lock those down, I figure most of my breadmaking will be for making sandwich lunches when school starts back up (if school starts back up...)
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Jun 15, 2020 06:45
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Scholtz posted:Anyways, what I wanted to ask is: does anyone have a preferred loaf pan that they like using? I'm having fun making boules but as I lock those down, I figure most of my breadmaking will be for making sandwich lunches when school starts back up (if school starts back up...) My wife prefers these Kaiser rolls I've been working on, which just go on the bricks naked without a pan in sight. I think it is a vehicle for eating toasted sesame seeds or something. If school is for like, kids and not for you, then you are probably looking at a boring loaf pan to make some unassuming bread.
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Jun 15, 2020 08:58
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