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Beefeater1980 posted:I do worry about the potential for backlash. A statue is no big deal; let’s hope that’s the end of it. Yeah, there's a big danger in making it obvious how to destroy statues, is that racists can sometimes read too. But, of course, we don't need the statues to remember the history. Them getting destroyed would be sad, and angering, but we can always make more. Paying artists is a good thing, after all. E: this is SHakespeare's sonnet 73 That time of year thou mayst in me behold, When yellow leaves, or none, or few, do hang Upon those boughs which shake against the cold, Bare ruined choirs, where late the sweet birds sang; In me thou seest the twilight of such day As after sunset fadeth in the west, Which by and by black night doth take away, Death's second self that seals up all in rest; In me thou seest the glowing of such fire That on the ashes of his youth doth lie, As the deathbed whereon it must expire, Consum'd with that which it was nourish'd by; This thou perceiv'st, which makes thy love more strong, To love that well, which thou must leave ere long. Shakespeare was a good poet, and honestly probably fairly progressive for his time, but his time was the 1600s, so he was probably at the very least kind of a prick, and probably antisemitic. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 11:30
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I mean my position on the sun hasn't really changed, it's a poo poo paper for poo poo people that runs nothing but the absolute worst poo poo. It's not really surprising to me I guess. It's exactly the sort of thing I'd expect from them. The entire UK media industry is an aristocrats joke.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:32
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I never really even bother looking at anything the sun does. The mail is far and away the worst for me.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:37
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gh0stpinballa posted:sorry but what does any of this have to do with the sun splashing an interview with her abuser on the front page to eek out some sales. like are we seriously edging up to critical support for the sun because it traumatised someone we don't like. wth. the issue is what the tabloid press have deemed fair game here, not whether jrk is a bad person so maybe deserves it. Settle down, okay?
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Jun 12, 2020 11:37
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:That was exactly what I thought when I read it but was loathe to express the viewpoint lest women I know (including relatives one of whom suffered horrendous domestic violence for 12 years) who are survivors of domestic violence dogpile me. gh0stpinballa posted:sorry but what does any of this have to do with the sun splashing an interview with her abuser on the front page to eek out some sales
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Jun 12, 2020 11:40
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Jippa posted:I never really even bother looking at anything the sun does. The mail is far and away the worst for me. I think the Mail is more dangerous because it has a thin veneer of respectability to it. People generally know tha red tops print malicious lies for profit and that The Sun is the worst offender. But a lot of otherwise perfectly reasonable (if not politically engaged) people read the Mail or Mail Online just because they're so mainstream and get slowly exposed to poison over a long period of time.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:41
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While also publishing lurid details for clicks.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:41
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3rd anniversary of grenfell is on sunday and reminder that the lib dems deliberately lied about labour being responsible for it during the election
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Jun 12, 2020 11:42
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It's possible to simultaneously despise the Scum for handing megaphones to wifebeaters, sympathise for Rowling for being a victim of domestic abuse, and also find the timing of the article highly sus.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:43
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Borrovan posted:Because the Sun are doing exactly what she did, making her out to be a victim to shield her from criticism for her flagrant transphobia It's not really fair to suggest that the Sun are doing Rowling a favour by putting her abusive ex talking about slapping her on the cover, regardless of anything else.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:45
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They're not doing her a favour, what they're doing is exploiting her experience to sell papers while also pushing the same position on transpeople. Basically maximally optimal terribleness in every possible fashion. Which is exactly what you'd expect from them.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:48
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Yes, this. The only thing they care about is giving the worst possible takes the widest possible circulation.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:49
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OwlFancier posted:A lot of them seem incensed at the idea that you can be racist against germans which, I mean, I never watched fawlty towers so I have no idea what the plot of the episode is. You really should - I think it's some of the best comedy I've ever watched. Most episodes are incredibly hilarious and farcical, especially once the series gets going, and it routinely tops polls of the greater ever sitcom - you're doing yourself a bit of disservice by not watching it. The Germans episode has two scenes in it which clearly involve racism, neither of which involve the Germans IMO. (The Germans themselves are portrayed as believable and well-rounded normal people and the comedy is entirely at the expense of Basil Fawlty going off the rails with a concussion). The scene where the Major drops the n-word could easily be edited out I think. I never really got whatever the point of that scene was, except to show that he was prone to wandering off on tangents. Or the words could just be muted. The other scene shows Basil reacting with surprise at the appearance of a very dark skinned doctor in a hospital. The doctor also proceeds to 'hypnotise' Fawlty to sleep at one point, presumably using the powers of the ~mystical African~ or something. It certainly doesn't look like a standard NHS procedure. It's clearly a racist depiction, but also sets up a couple of following scenes, so it would be harder to just cut this without destroying a part of the narrative. I suspect it will return with some content flags and maybe something about context at the beginning of it. Prince John fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 11:51
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josh04 posted:It's not really fair to suggest that the Sun are doing Rowling a favour by putting her abusive ex talking about slapping her on the cover, regardless of anything else.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:51
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Feeling a bit depressed this morning about the kind of world my daughter's going to inherit when she's older (this may or may not be related to the fact I drunk way too much Talisker last night). Brexit, the Tories, Covid, global warming, rise of fascism in Europe and the US, none of it feels positive. Which leads me to ask the thread: does anyone here have an optimistic vision of the future? I have faith in people's attitudes to each other becoming more progressive - so reduction of racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia (is that a word?) etc. - but otherwise, things feel a bit bleak.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:54
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Prince John posted:You really should - I think it's some of the best comedy I've ever watched. Most episodes are incredibly hilarious and farcical, especially once the series gets going, and it routinely tops polls of the greater ever sitcom - you're doing yourself a bit of disservice by not watching it. I've seen, like, clips of it, but if I'm honest I don't really find john cleese very funny outside of his work in python and even that isn't really my favourite since I stopped being a teenager. Honestly all sitcom stuff just lands pretty flat on me, even ignoring the entire format of television that I find pretty offputting. I haven't watched TV in at least a decade and I'm not sure if I could go back to it.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:55
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thespaceinvader posted:Yeah, there's a big danger in making it obvious how to destroy statues, is that racists can sometimes read too. It’s not so much the destroying statues that provokes a backlash so much as there being a highly visible mass movement that is impossible for even the most head-in-the-sand person to ignore. To be clear, I’m not advocating stopping protests or not toppling statues. I’m worrying that maybe we all need to start thinking about how to mitigate the danger if there is a violent backlash by the right.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:56
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The Perfect Element posted:Feeling a bit depressed this morning about the kind of world my daughter's going to inherit when she's older (this may or may not be related to the fact I drunk way too much Talisker last night). Just last page, in fact: Beefeater1980 posted:I do worry about the potential for backlash. A statue is no big deal; let’s hope that’s the end of it. Which I agree with. Yes we've got some lousy poo poo coming to deal with but there is a major generational divide, culturally. And I don't think any of the establishment political movements have managed to capitalize on it. It may well be that politics as we understand them just won't work in the future, that we're gonna see a lot more mass direct action. It sucks that your bairn will have to deal with it but I mean, that's true of all kids all the time, that's life. That's why I'm not having any. But I would trust that as long as you do your part then she'll have as good of a shot as anyone at making sense of the world she inherits, and there will be plenty of people in it glad of her presence in it. That's all anyone can really hope to be, it any time and in any place.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:00
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OwlFancier posted:maximally optimal terribleness in every possible fashion Ah, the News Corp mission statement. Borrovan posted:Nah, agreed, I phrased that wrong, they're exploiting her in extremely bad taste. They are 100% trying to prevent criticism of transphobia though (efb) Yes, this. The article tries to draw parallels between Rowling's abusers and people (rightfully) giving her poo poo online for her views on trans people. Rowling didn't collude and doesn't benefit, but TERF shitheads online and The Scum's gammon readership now have another vacuous argument in the arsenal to attack trans people and their allies.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:01
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ThomasPaine posted:Phrenology hat by itself is loving nuts - hi I'm going to measure your skull to see whether you get to go live in one of four segregated towers, are you A) good strapping bold aryan B) swarthy cunning evil guy who literally can talk to snakes, famously the most evil of creatures C) neither of the above but smart I guess or D) same as C but dumb. Better watch out pal my decision here will affect your entire life forever lol People are really over-analysing Harry Potter in their haste to gotcha JK Rowling over the last few days ITT. I mean, I don't even care about Harry Potter, but it's not a phrenology hat - it doesn't measure skulls. It looks inside people's heads at their thoughts and contains the intelligence of the four House founders who are making the decision about who fits best. A quick google reveals the thought process she had for creating it: quote:The Sorting Hat does not appear in my earliest plans for Hogwarts. I debated several different methods for sorting students (because I knew from early on that there would be four houses, all with very different qualities). The first was an elaborate, Heath Robinson-ish machine that did all kinds of magical things before reaching a decision, but I did not like it: it felt at once too complicated, and too easy. Next I placed four statues of the four founders in the Entrance Hall, which came alive and selected students from the throng in front of them while the school watched. This was better, but still not quite right. Finally, I wrote a list of the ways in which people can be chosen: eeny meeny miny mo, short straws, chosen by team captains, names out of a hat – names out of a talking hat – putting on a hat – the Sorting Hat. The involvement of a skull in the process is entirely incidental.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:02
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Beefeater1980 posted:It’s not so much the destroying statues that provokes a backlash so much as there being a highly visible mass movement that is impossible for even the most head-in-the-sand person to ignore. The narrative I'm seeing on local FB groups gaining more and more traction amongst some even quite reasonable people (normally) is that the protestors are all paid by eg Soros. I'm wondering if the tories or someone is running another one of their underhand advertising campaigns (which naturally I won't see as I'm clearly not in their demographic ad filters!)
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Jun 12, 2020 12:03
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Basically, the Sun rolled into an argument where bigots were comparing trans people to wifebeaters and went 'excuse me, no, wifebeaters are cool and good actually'.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:05
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https://twitter.com/novaramedia/status/1271399557734240259
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Jun 12, 2020 12:13
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Prince John posted:People are really over-analysing Harry Potter in their haste to gotcha JK Rowling over the last few days ITT. days? it feels like years. people are obsessed with her and the books / movies.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:18
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Just wanted to say fudge arrived today and that delicious surprise gift earned no end of brownie points, thanks 
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Jun 12, 2020 12:20
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Prince John posted:The scene where the Major drops the n-word could easily be edited out I think. I never really got whatever the point of that scene was, except to show that he was prone to wandering off on tangents. Or the words could just be muted. There was a bit of "tee hee we can get some bad words in here" to that specific speech, and most TV networks have opted to trim it, so it's debatable how much it adds in character building.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:21
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massive news being snuck out today https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/12/brexit-uk-expected-to-backtrack-on-full-eu-border-checks come January the government will not be enforcing border checks on goods coming into the country. which is obviously an open invitation to avoid any kind of import duty. cheap booze and fags for all! blaming the additional impact of compliance being too much on business on top how they've been hit by the pandemic. but in reality they're just still totally unprepared to have the necessary infrastructure and staff to actually operate a border. this goes back to May's insistence on leaving the single market / customs union, but not seriously prepare for that. and Johnson's government doubled down on that.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:23
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Cerv posted:massive news being snuck out today So does this (purely hypothetically) mean it’s open season for drugs, guns and god knows what else to flood through the borders? Or does this solely apply to commercial checks/tariffs?
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Jun 12, 2020 12:29
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It’s one thing for us to bring over some extra fags or wine, but I can’t imagine it’s going to be fun being a huge factory and expecting all the imported stuff to be up to standard
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Jun 12, 2020 12:30
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somehow the "statues are literally the only thing that teaches about history and definitely don't glorify their subjects, apart from the Churchill one which does glorify him because he's great" canard is even more offensive coming from a guy who could, idk, make sure all these things are taught in schools so we don't have to have laudatory statues of slave owners to remind us that they existed https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1271388181343145986?s=20 https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1271388183658467328?s=20 https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1271388185973723138?s=20 https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1271388188544827394?s=20 pictured: the us army editing history https://i.imgur.com/Jr3wItR.gifv although nobody is quite sure which particular bit or why as all statues were brutally attacked by violent thugs
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Jun 12, 2020 12:31
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Guavanaut posted:I think the scene is supposed to build the character of the Major as a meandering old-man-conversation haver and also an obsessive kind of racist (with a subtext that the governance of the Empire was full of meandering racists). like that. the show is mocking the Major and people like him clinging to their old ways in the face of modernity. who at the time most everyone in the audience will know someone like that. the actual joke is just that when he says "you can't say that" it's setting up for "because racism is bad now" but then he goes in the opposite direction with a bit of shock value too. not a particularly original composition. and by contrast with Fawlty soften his character a bit. yes, Basil is a poo poo person and every episode is built around showing how poo poo he is, but he's not the worst person in the world. OwlFancier posted:I've seen, like, clips of it, but if I'm honest I don't really find john cleese very funny outside of his work in python and even that isn't really my favourite since I stopped being a teenager. Honestly all sitcom stuff just lands pretty flat on me, even ignoring the entire format of television that I find pretty offputting.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:32
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josh04 posted:It's not really fair to suggest that the Sun are doing Rowling a favour by putting her abusive ex talking about slapping her on the cover, regardless of anything else. The Sun slapped her on the cover as well.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:35
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Cerv posted:massive news being snuck out today What effect will this have at the Irish border? The UK government don't seem to be taking the infrastructure for the internal border with NI particularly seriously, either, so that seems like it would be a pretty easy way to get shoddy goods into the single market
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Jun 12, 2020 12:36
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XMNN posted:What effect will this have at the Irish border? The UK government don't seem to be taking the infrastructure for the internal border with NI particularly seriously, either, so that seems like it would be a pretty easy way to get shoddy goods into the single market I guess they’d have to bypass the U.K. entirely and use their own ports rather than using the U.K. as a land bridge
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Jun 12, 2020 12:38
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XMNN posted:somehow the "statues are literally the only thing that teaches about history and definitely don't glorify their subjects, apart from the Churchill one which does glorify him because he's great" canard is even more offensive coming from a guy who could, idk, make sure all these things are taught in schools so we don't have to have laudatory statues of slave owners to remind us that they existed The 'it's cleansing history!!!!' line is particularly irksome. And aggressively stupid. Like, it's the statues as they currently are that represent a cleansing of history, not the attempts to have them reinterpreted. The aim is the literal opposite of cleansing history. Colston's statue wasn't controversial because it was related to slavery. It was because, to all appearances, it had no relation to slavery at all. Edit: And this is now coming from a PM who wrote a biography of Churchill which was widely criticises for being more of a hagiography. How's that not 'cleansing history', Boris? BalloonFish fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 12:41
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Cerv posted:like that. the show is mocking the Major and people like him clinging to their old ways in the face of modernity. who at the time most everyone in the audience will know someone like that.  throughout.In the context of the 2020s most of the people who are mad about it just thought it was funny that the bad words were in a scene, and seem to have missed the point why.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:48
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Cerv posted:massive news being snuck out today Isnt it no EXTRA checks aka the current status quo? We assume stuff coming from the EU is up to spec already sortafing
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Jun 12, 2020 12:57
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Chubby Henparty posted:Just wanted to say fudge arrived today and that delicious surprise gift earned no end of brownie points, thanks Fudge points surely?
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Jun 12, 2020 13:01
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Guavanaut posted:Yeah, in the context of the mid-70s it was definitely "the Empire's over and there's Black and Indian people here now, old man racism is outdated" given Basil's *cries in Centre for Contemporary Cultural Studies*
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Jun 12, 2020 13:02
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XMNN posted:somehow the "statues are literally the only thing that teaches about history and definitely don't glorify their subjects, apart from the Churchill one which does glorify him because he's great" canard is even more offensive coming from a guy who could, idk, make sure all these things are taught in schools so we don't have to have laudatory statues of slave owners to remind us that they existed #3 is particularly spicy given that as noted yesterday, many of the statues concerned were in fact NOT put up by previous generations, but have been erected since the loving 2008 financial crash. Now that does FEEL like it was a loving milennium ago, but I can exclusively reveal it was in fact ONLY TWELVE YEARS.
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Jun 12, 2020 13:05
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