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Which season should the next animated reconstruction be from? This poll is closed. |
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| Season 1 (Marco Polo) |
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13 | 18.57% |
| Season 2 (The Crusade) |
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1 | 1.43% |
| Season 3 (Galaxy 4/The Myth Makers/The Daleks' Master Plan/The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve/The Celestial Toymaker/The Savages) |
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25 | 35.71% |
| Season 4 (The Smugglers/The Highlanders/The Underwater Menace/The Evil of the Daleks) |
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16 | 22.86% |
| Season 5 (The Abominable Snowmen/The Web of Fear/The Wheel in Space) |
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11 | 15.71% |
| Season 6 (The Space Pirates) |
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4 | 5.71% |
| Total: | 70 votes | ||
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Barry Foster posted:Yeah, definitely. I think first time round that was lost on me because 11 was a pretty settled dude, all told, so it was like 'where's this all coming from all of a sudden?' Only for the Doctor to later find out she had infinite lives all along. I still hate that development.
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Jun 12, 2020 02:50
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:12 |
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Thank God it wasn't 12 who found that out. Just having a dozen predecessors made him panic and go on bizarre rants about brooms; imagine if in that mindset he'd found out there were an untold number of predecessors going back, what, a billion years?
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Jun 12, 2020 03:08
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Senor Tron posted:Only for the Doctor to later find out she had infinite lives all along. It is hilarious how little sense it makes.
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Jun 12, 2020 05:51
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If the Doctor's regenerations work the same way as regular Time Lords, presumably she's not immortal, she just has infinite regenerations, barring accidents. Which is fine, I don't think there's a particularly interesting story to be told of the Doctor at the end of their life. Regeneration is already a big enough price to pay for any big sacrifice. There's a reason TotD only spent like 15-20 minutes on it and then Moffat later tried to demurely suggest that the Doctor has infinite regenerations anyway later. That's nowhere near the biggest problem with that episode.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:16
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Big Finish has three dozen recent boxsets back at their preorder prices (the code to access is "RETRO") which isn't the most exciting sale, but since I didn't grab the fourth David Bradley set before the price increased and am interested in a sequel to The Daleks (assuming it continues on from that story's depiction of them as survivalists rather than universal supremacists) and a historical with the Romanovs I figured I might as well grab that even though Twice Upon a Time really soured me on that take on the First Doctor (admittedly due more to Moffat's writing than the performance) and the third McGann Time War set since I have the first two so I might as well finish the series out with this and when the fourth one comes out even though I'm pretty whatever about Time War stuff at this point. Unrelated to the sale, and far more enthusiastically than I made those first two purchases sound, I figured I should probably grab Susan's War before that goes up in price since I love Carole Ann Ford and William Russel and A Heart on Both Sides so I need to hear more from that These three box sets are probably more than I've bought from Big Finish altogether in the past two and a half years lol
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Jun 12, 2020 12:26
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Rochallor posted:If the Doctor's regenerations work the same way as regular Time Lords, presumably she's not immortal, she just has infinite regenerations, barring accidents. Which is fine, I don't think there's a particularly interesting story to be told of the Doctor at the end of their life. Regeneration is already a big enough price to pay for any big sacrifice. There's a reason TotD only spent like 15-20 minutes on it and then Moffat later tried to demurely suggest that the Doctor has infinite regenerations anyway later. That's nowhere near the biggest problem with that episode. This is confirmed by Turn Left, after all.That death to the Rachnos 'stuck' because it was too sudden to regenerate from.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:27
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It's the before Hartnell incarnations that bother people, not the extra regenerations after. Nobody seriously thought they were going to say 'Oh well, that's twelve, show's over.'
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Jun 12, 2020 13:20
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Unkempt posted:It's the before Hartnell incarnations that bother people, not the extra regenerations after. i mean, like, people have had since 1976 to make their peace with pre-Hartnell Doctors i didn't really care for the whole Timeless Child thing more because it felt like an empty resolution compared to the amazing buildup to the Jo Martin Doctor, but the one thing i will give it (apart from the Time Lord Cybermen being such amazing camp nonsense) is saying "gently caress all your dumb fan rationalisations" and bringing back the Morbius Doctors Homora Gaykemi fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 13:22
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Senor Tron posted:Only for the Doctor to later find out she had infinite lives all along. Ah, that's in the Doctor Who nullzone for me. I don't care about Chibnall Who. I like Jodie a whole lot but I hate everything else Chibnall's done with the show
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Jun 12, 2020 13:37
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Unkempt posted:It's the before Hartnell incarnations that bother people, not the extra regenerations after. Nobody seriously thought they were going to say 'Oh well, that's twelve, show's over.' I'll try to articulate what bothers me about the reveal, because it's actually several different reveals at once and I could see each one of them potentially working in isolation? 1) The Timeless Child, an alien from another universe, is the source of regeneration on Gallifrey -> while I don't really see how regeneration segues into the Time Lords becoming who they are (what Omega and Rassilon did still seems more important to me?), I think this is a perfectly fine reveal that stresses just how lovely the Time Lords are and could create some moral and ethical questions for both the Doctor and the Master. 2) The aforementioned Timeless Child is the Doctor: I don't like this because it makes the Doctor special by birth, rather than by their own actions, but I posted in this thread before a Tumblr post that convinced me that the idea isn't totally meritless: people of color have frequently been the subject, unfortunately, of brutal experiments, because they've been consistently considered a disposable, inferior category of people. By giving the Doctor this new backstory, she becomes more relatable to a certain segment of the audience that Who hasn't treated very well in the past, and dissociates herself from the Time Lord aristocratic and colonial views. I do, however, find myself still wondering if this is something that works in the long run, considering that the original Doctor was quite obviously coded as the Victorian inventor, and that the current Doctor is still white (we did see non-white Doctors this season, and that's good!) 3) The Doctor has most likely been part of the Time Lord CIA for a good chunk of her life, until she was eventually mindwiped and went back to what we know as her first life. -> I don't like this at all, in its current form. Pre-Hartnell incarnations of the Doctor could work (and were very likely intended in the Brain of Morbius), and there's way to even make post-Hartnell extra incarnations fit. But I do think it's important that, for as little as I care about canon, the Doctor doesn't just come out of the gate with the title Doctor, but instead earns it by learning to empathize with humans. Cut that aspect of the Ruth Doctor, and maybe I'd be on board with that, even though it's weird to go with that story direction not long after the show established that the Doctor was on their final life until the Time Lords intervened. 4) The Doctor has infinite regenerations -> building from what I said above, I think it's weird to go in this direction in this way, but it could have been very easy to establish that the Timeless Child was the source of the regeneration the Doc got at Trenzalore, and maybe even make her reconsider, in retrospect, whether she would have even asked, knowing that the Time Lords were torturing a child to give her those. Anyway, this is kind of ranty, but I hope I sufficiently explained why I don't like these developments. It's as if Chibnall took a whole bunch of ideas, meshed them together awkwardly, delivered them entirely through exposition, and then counted on changes to the status quo to be enough to make the fans happy. Remember when everybody thought this season would feature medieval Cybermen????!?!
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Jun 12, 2020 13:39
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A crime that this season also committed; erasing the 8/Mary Shelley BF stories.
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Jun 12, 2020 14:17
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I still live in hope of the unlikely situation that the Master is making it all up and is just loving with the Doctor. Maybe bonus points if The Master is the Timeless Child, and rather than accept it he decided to be a dick...
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Jun 12, 2020 14:18
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it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if they pulled a Dallas and had the Doctor wake up to find Bobby Ewing in the shower
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Jun 12, 2020 14:30
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Sod it, Susan is the Timeless Child, the matrix memories are implanted by the Doctor when she was doing missions for the Timelords after the War Games to cover for her.
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Jun 12, 2020 14:42
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I liked RTD and Moffat's thing with the Master where the character is an old childhood friend of the Doctor and they grew up to be like mirror versions of each other, where each one could have been the other if things had gone differently and they each want the other to be more like themself so they can be friends again. No more of that with the Timeless Child; the Master is now like a cell that fell off the Doctor's body. She even says to him, "I'm so much more than you". Oh well
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Jun 12, 2020 15:03
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The_Doctor posted:A crime that this season also committed; erasing the 8/Mary Shelley BF stories. Still happened, they both just had their memories erased afterward. On the Timeless Child, there’s clearly more to come and time will tell whether this is a redeemable development. All I’ll say is that I’m in favor of anything that gets us more Jo Martin Doctor. I do wonder whether there’s going to be a connection drawn to Captain Jack and his status. As for the CIA Doctor, it could be an interesting way to explore the implications of the Timeless Child starting out as a series of minority people being experimented upon and killed who eventually regenerates into a white male form and behaves as an enforcer of the law of the colonial power before regenerating into a black woman who rebels against it and sets a trend for her future selves. As has been mentioned, it’s an interesting way of reworking the Victorian inventor model of the Doctor that is pro-colonial England. It’s no more unintelligible than Moffat’s “Doctor grew up in a barn in an orphanage in Outer Gallifrey” and “Doctor kidnapped the President’s daughter” additions to the canon.
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Jun 12, 2020 15:10
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2house2fly posted:I liked RTD and Moffat's thing with the Master where the character is an old childhood friend of the Doctor and they grew up to be like mirror versions of each other, where each one could have been the other if things had gone differently and they each want the other to be more like themself so they can be friends again. No more of that with the Timeless Child; the Master is now like a cell that fell off the Doctor's body. She even says to him, "I'm so much more than you". Oh well Gross
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Jun 12, 2020 15:31
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All of the Morbius doctors are just 2 with wigs and fake moustaches.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:20
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Speaking of Big Finish...Rory! https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/brand-new-doctor-who-spin-off I loved Arthur Darvill on Legends of Tomorrow, I loved Big Finish's version of Frankenstein with him as Victor, and I'm excited for this.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:35
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Anyone else here listen to the Big Finish Torchwood range? The series is very good right now and I just want to fanboy tbh.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:35
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Open Source Idiom posted:Anyone else here listen to the Big Finish Torchwood range? The series is very good right now and I just want to fanboy tbh. I'm picking it back up. The Dying Room was the last one I listened to a year ago. I've enjoyed drat near all of them. They FEEL like how Torchwood should have been portrayed on TV. Moving Target and Fall to Earth are my two standouts.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:41
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Narsham posted:It’s no more unintelligible than Moffat’s “Doctor grew up in a barn in an orphanage in Outer Gallifrey” and “Doctor kidnapped the President’s daughter” additions to the canon. The idea that the Doctor was once a frightened lonely child is one that the audience might find relatable. The Doctor being the president's father is a bit of a weird choice, but then the Time Lords tried to make him president multiple times so it doesn't really affect much in terms of *the canon*
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Jun 12, 2020 17:35
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Narsham posted:It’s no more unintelligible than Moffat’s “Doctor grew up in a barn in an orphanage in Outer Gallifrey” and “Doctor kidnapped the President’s daughter” additions to the canon. I dunno, I feel like those two were some pretty minor additions that can also be easily disregarded if one wants. The Timeless Child stuff is all one big plot point. But I'm gonna give it a chance, honestly (and I disagree with the doom and gloom cries... look, fiction has constantly ignored/retconned much more bizarre stuff than this... Chris Chibnall can't even begin to touch the poo poo comic books do on a yearly basis).
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Jun 12, 2020 18:17
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The second one seems to be so minor that I can't actually figure out what exactly it's referring to. Help a goon out? The physical aspect of the young Doctor being in a barn doesn't bother me at all, beyond some nerd complaints about time locked events etc. The part of that scene in Listen that rubs the wrong way is the implication that Clara was responsible for giving the Doctor his principles. However, I'm OK with that because: a) It's only implicit and quite easy to disregard. b) It's cyclical - Clara was repeating what the Doctor had said to her, so essentially the Doctor inspired the Doctor. c) the scene is really well done. I can't remember if Hell Bent added anything more to that backstory? I suppose the other Moffat retcon to throw in would be the confession in Heaven Sent that the Doctor left Gallifrey because he was scared, rather than because he was bored. I'm not particularly keen on that, but it's very vague and also easy to just gloss over.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:52
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:...and I disagree with the doom and gloom cries... look, fiction has constantly ignored/retconned much more bizarre stuff than this... Fair point. Even Doctor Who has ignored the Morbius Doctors before!
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Jun 12, 2020 19:34
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In Hell Bent the Doctor refers to a rumour that he stole the moon and the president's wife- he clarifies that he actually lost the moon, and it was the president's daughter. Since this would have happened around the time he left Gallifrey, it makes sense that the president's daughter would be Susan
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Jun 12, 2020 19:44
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2house2fly posted:In Hell Bent the Doctor refers to a rumour that he stole the moon and the president's wife- he clarifies that he actually lost the moon, and it was the president's daughter. Since this would have happened around the time he left Gallifrey, it makes sense that the president's daughter would be Susan Ah, thanks. I'd not connected those dots and (rightly or wrongly) just put it down as a random offscreen adventure. Plus that's not even in the top ten worst things in Hell Bent, so it's easily lost in the noise. Ultimately, a vague throwaway line like that is much easier to ignore or dismiss than a massive multi-season plot arc.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:11
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If you make a big deal about it on the show, viewers will make a big deal about it. That's how drama works.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:16
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Voting Floater posted:I suppose the other Moffat retcon to throw in would be the confession in Heaven Sent that the Doctor left Gallifrey because he was scared, rather than because he was bored. I'm not particularly keen on that, but it's very vague and also easy to just gloss over. Honestly the two aren't necessarily contradictory anyway. The Doctor could have been scared, in a very pressing way (they're an exile from Gallifrey when starting up after all) and also bored of stuffy Gallifreyan society.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:31
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The_Doctor posted:A crime that this season also committed; erasing the 8/Mary Shelley BF stories.  Also still holding out hope that Chibnall takes the hiatus to retcon away the Timeless Child. CobiWann posted:Speaking of Big Finish...Rory! This will be very good. 2000 years of history to go through, all the way to Hitler (he's rubbish).
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Jun 13, 2020 01:26
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I dislike any concept that tries to make out that Susan isn't actually the Doctor's granddaughter, it just seems like such an utterly pointless change to make. Anyway, we'll have to wait to see what Chibnal does with this Timeless Child nonsense, every bit of information we have comes directly from The Master showing her memories in a device he's been shown to have the ability to forge memories in before (in fact, its very first ever appearance in the show was as a result of the Master forging information kept inside!), and the argument for the Doctor being the Timeless Child is the Master saying so with absolutely nothing to back it up. The Master posted:- Not-Rassilon found a kid.
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Jun 13, 2020 01:43
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Well, all we need is for another Time Lord to come in and clear things up OH WAIT
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Jun 13, 2020 01:47
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Jerusalem posted:I dislike any concept that tries to make out that Susan isn't actually the Doctor's granddaughter, it just seems like such an utterly pointless change to make.
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Jun 13, 2020 01:49
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Edward Mass posted:Well, all we need is for another Time Lord to come in and clear things up OH WAIT Yeah, now that all the other Time Lords are dead, they're out of the picture forever. Time Lords seen milling around in the background waiting to be back in like 4 episodes
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Jun 13, 2020 01:53
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Master: The Time Lords?! But you all died! TM: Yes! And we came back.
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Jun 13, 2020 02:26
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Crosspeice posted:Master: The Time Lords?! But you all died! Master: Oh... so this is how that feels? 
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Jun 13, 2020 02:55
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"Turns out we all have infinite regenerations and whenever we die For Realsies This Time, we just kinda awkwardly pop back into existence in a remote part of the universe after a few minutes." "The Daleks do that too." "Well someone gave them regeneration energy. To a species with access to time travel."
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Jun 13, 2020 04:14
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Something incredibly chilling about the Daleks in their first ever story, especially with the benefit of hindsight, is the following exchange: Dalek: We will examine your machine. Doctor: No. Not unless you stop what you're doing. Otherwise I won't explain its secrets to you and its philosophy of movement. Dalek: Now we know of the machine, we can examine it for ourselves. Doctor: But you can't operate it without me. Dalek: Every problem has a solution. Basically the Daleks - desperate survivalists who can't even leave their city - discover that space and time travel are thing. The next story we see them in, they've mastered space travel and conquered the Earth. The next story after that, they've already figured out a crude if effective form of time travel.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:29
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Jerusalem posted:Something incredibly chilling about the Daleks in their first ever story, especially with the benefit of hindsight, is the following exchange: Even more to the point- they had no reason to leave their home. But then they got one. Life, alien life. Life that wasn't them. Lives that weren't Dalek. This was an affront, a crime that must be countered. A challenge to the very nature of all Daleks. There could be no other life forms, no other society, superior to the Dalek race. And there would be none. As a reminder, not even a few serials after they discover time travel, they've already made a weapon that can end reality.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:35
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 17:12 |
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I can see what Midnight is doing, and I think it does it very well, but I just don't find it particularly fun to watch; and that's why I come to Doctor Who.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:59
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