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That sounds a lot like how our Avernus game went. I'm the only one in the group that really ever played the Baldur's Gate games so I had a fun time seeing familiar places like how the Elfsong Tavern had the exact same layout as in the game. The others probably got a lot less out of it. The DM threw in a trip to the Friendly Arm Inn for me. Turns out I was the wizard that attacked the party outside the inn after I got mind controlled by a Cambion. Hell has been a lot of following around an NPC and no one really caring about Eterul. I don't think even the paladin is really into the Eterul bit and is more into the Zariel bit. We talked it over as a group about some of the issues I brought up earlier in the week and we are gonna do a bunch of homemade side stuff in Avernus before we wrap things up. Maybe I can convince people to return to Mordenkainen and see if I can get some wizardly help.
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Jun 12, 2020 00:02
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Malpais Legate posted:I know it bends over backwards to pull it off, but the fighter subclass has the right idea by coupling their damage dice with the class rather than weapon type. I like these ideas, though the rogue one seems to be doing the biggest reach to recreate Twisted Fate in a class (and system) that probably won't have him. It's a problem, actually. And kind of shows that whoever worked this up really isn't that knowledgeable about how 5th Edition works. If these are not items, then a Renegade will never be doing magical damage until Level 7.
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Jun 12, 2020 01:42
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Arthil posted:It's a problem, actually. And kind of shows that whoever worked this up really isn't that knowledgeable about how 5th Edition works. If these are not items, then a Renegade will never be doing magical damage until Level 7. its also just strange in that every other martial is going to have some sort of magic weapon to aid in their progression and this class is just ... not able. with that said, it is probably the easiest house ruling on the planet to deal with this problem, but it is the kind of thing where if there was more QA involved it would have easily been spotted
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Jun 12, 2020 01:49
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I mean I would totally be up for playing the Sniper Renegade, a big shot, eventually two, per round. But the archetype totally ignores the MAJOR selling point for the Fighter class of Extra Attack. Like if you made it so the guns fired as many times per round as a Fighter normally would get attacks from an Attack action with all their Extra Attacks included then you could maybe work something with some work. Keep the Pistols at 1d6, but let the Pistoler get as many shots with their off-hand Pistol on a Bonus Action as they get attacks with their main-hand Pistol from the Attack action+Extra Attack. The damage of the guns would be low but it would throw out a lot of small shots. With the Rifle you would probably have to slow down how fast the damage of the shot gets if you could make a shot for each attack a Fighter normally gets. If each shot eventually does 2d10, or maybe even 3d10 although that might be pushing it compared to current fighter output, then you still have a highly damaging subclass but also one that actually makes use of the Extra Attack feature of the Fighter.
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Jun 12, 2020 02:00
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The pistoleer option gets extra attack anyway, it scales by number of attacks rather than damage.
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Jun 12, 2020 02:11
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Yes. That is the problem. The subclass gets extra attacks that duplicate what the class already grants. This is a terrible idea and means the Pistol option is just straight up bad. Unless you can actually make the attack with each attack a Fighter gets and thus eventually quadruple the normal number of attacks a Fighter can get, in which case it kind of becomes broken.
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Jun 12, 2020 02:46
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did anyone post this yet? leaked recently stoked to spend another trip through levels 1-10 in a slightly different corner of the forgotten realms
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Jun 12, 2020 02:55
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That can't possibly be the first icewind dale adventure what with Drizzt being a thing. Or hadn't it made it to 5 yet?
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Jun 12, 2020 03:21
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That’s a lot of ways to say poo poo is cold.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:22
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I should make a character named Icewind Dale. Or Dale Icewind.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:24
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I want a nice refreshing Dicewind Ale.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:25
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Oh no. No no no. If it is Icewind Dale I just know they are going to go with another bullshit extreme conditions Exhaustion death spiral. Just like previous adventures, and just like that garbage trash fire that is Avernus. Note Avernus might possibly not be a garbage trashfire, it might just be garbage. But since I have spent over a month in a Bazaar that I wanted to spend less than half an hour in, and was hit with multiple levels of exhaustion as a Warforged because I wanted to walk instead of sell my soul.
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Jun 12, 2020 03:35
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change my name posted:Dale Icewind.  hope u like exhaustion and getting lost in blizzards or buried in avalanches
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Jun 12, 2020 04:13
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Open Marriage Night posted:That’s a lot of ways to say poo poo is cold. Coldwind Coldplace Cold of the Coldgirl
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Jun 12, 2020 04:14
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What kind of ding-dong would rather go to Icewind Dale than on a romp of the outer planes meeting weird monsters It's like WotC isn't listening to my needlessly detailed survey responses
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Jun 12, 2020 05:25
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Man, Vengeance Paladin with PM/Sentinel is such a fun build, especially if you're fighting in a large enough area to ride your mount. Just had a combat last night where I was zipping around the battlefield on my magic elk, getting AoOs every round and generally being a massive hassle to the enemy.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:23
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I tried to make a custom class focused around dealing one big ranged hit instead of many smaller ones, but just the ability to hit multiple times/targets is such a big loss you need to compensate for it by letting the sniper deal a ton of damage to their one target. Which gets silly pretty quickly. Eventually I just let them add the damage dice they would have rolled for all their attacks together, then let them add a condition (sickened/poisoned, stunned, etc) for each extra attack rolled up into the big hit. But it's still not really good.
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Jun 12, 2020 12:46
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Ryuujin posted:Yes. That is the problem. The subclass gets extra attacks that duplicate what the class already grants. This is a terrible idea and means the Pistol option is just straight up bad. I don’t think it’s an inherently terrible idea, I mean it’s not that different from Eldritch Blast. Which is kind of a problem in itself in that a lot of what the subclass does can be replicated just by picking up EB as a cantrip.
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Jun 12, 2020 14:44
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Azhais posted:That can't possibly be the first icewind dale adventure what with Drizzt being a thing. Or hadn't it made it to 5 yet? There are surprisingly few published Icewind Dale adventures. Aside from the two Infinity Engine games, there's Legacy of the Crystal Shard, which was one of the transition modules released between 4E and 5E, and that's it. To be fair, Drizzt really doesn't do a lot of adventuring in Icewind Dale. The Icewind Dale trilogy only spends its first book there, and across thirty something novels, he only returns maybe half a dozen times. Icewind Dale was so insignificant that Salvatore's contribution to the FR series of sourcebooks wasn't even about it. Instead, he covered the Bloodstone Lands.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:57
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:I don’t think it’s an inherently terrible idea, I mean it’s not that different from Eldritch Blast. Which is kind of a problem in itself in that a lot of what the subclass does can be replicated just by picking up EB as a cantrip. EB doesn't work anything like that actually, it works more like Firebolt. One attack roll, bigger damage based on level scaling.
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Jun 12, 2020 21:47
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Arthil posted:EB doesn't work anything like that actually, it works more like Firebolt. One attack roll, bigger damage based on level scaling. No, you roll separately for each bolt quote:The spell creates more than one beam when you reach higher levels: two beams at 5th level, three beams at 11th level, and four beams at 17th level. You can direct the beams at the same target or at different ones. Make a separate attack roll for each beam.
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Jun 12, 2020 21:52
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change my name posted:No, you roll separately for each bolt Some confusion, sorry. The Renegade Sniper Rifle "weapon" works like Firebolt, not EB.
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Jun 12, 2020 21:56
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Oops, disregard then
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Jun 12, 2020 22:34
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Arthil posted:Some confusion, sorry. Uh, the original quote mentioned the pistol.
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Jun 13, 2020 01:41
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:I don’t think it’s an inherently terrible idea, I mean it’s not that different from Eldritch Blast. Which is kind of a problem in itself in that a lot of what the subclass does can be replicated just by picking up EB as a cantrip. It is an inherently terrible idea. On the Fighter. Because the Fighter already gets up to 4 attacks by 20th level. These features don't interact with it at all. They should have either designed it so it interacts with the Extra Attacks a Fighter already gets or put it on a different class that doesn't get Extra Attack. Also I am amazed about how I go elsewhere and see people saying these subclasses are way too powerful, especially the Rogue.
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Jun 13, 2020 01:44
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Ryuujin posted:It is an inherently terrible idea. On the Fighter. Because the Fighter already gets up to 4 attacks by 20th level. These features don't interact with it at all. It's not elegant but I don't think there's any inherent balance problem, anymore than giving a fighter a cantrip. The janky part is how they aren't technically weapons and so don't benefit from Ranged Fighting style, there's no way to augment them with magic item bonuses etc.
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Jun 13, 2020 01:51
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Probably the same people that complain about Sneak Attack being too powerful, who go and nerf it needlessly.
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Jun 13, 2020 01:52
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:It's not elegant but I don't think there's any inherent balance problem, anymore than giving a fighter a cantrip. The janky part is how they aren't technically weapons and so don't benefit from Ranged Fighting style, there's no way to augment them with magic item bonuses etc. quote:each form grants you a new ability and unlocks certain upgrades you can add to your weapon at higher levels. This makes me think they will count as a Weapon, and hopefully a Ranged Weapon. But it may be up to the DM. And honestly for the most part I am not thrilled with giving a Fighter a cantrip either. For much the same reason. Just like I am extremely disappointed in the Eldritch Knight who can at 7th level use a cantrip and then make a bonus action attack which is a terrible trade off and a bad subclass feature. Using a Cantrip as a Bonus Action when you take the Attack Action would have been much better.
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Jun 13, 2020 02:26
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I'm DMing 5e for the first time this weekend. It'll be the first session of a Descent into Avernus campaign, however, I'm following this setup guiding the party from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate as opposed to starting off in Baldur's Gate directly, and I think I'll be taking significant game design inspiration from this guy's review of the campaign and tweaks/overhauls. We'll be picking up the fourth party member (who can only join as of the 2nd session) on the way, so framing it as the journey to Baldur's Gate is convenient. I accept any and all advice. I think this is my first D&D game I've ever run - I had two Pathfinder campaigns way back in 2014 or 2015, then two Runequest campaigns that lasted six months each, and finally brief Star Wars and L5R campaigns around 2018 and haven't played tabletop since. My players got pretty into designing their character backgrounds this time, which is cool, and the game seems like it will be really fun. We have a tiefling rogue, a half orc barbarian, a human hexblade and a human druid party.
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Jun 13, 2020 03:28
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Don't forget to hand out inspiration?
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Jun 13, 2020 03:34
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DM found out today if the enemy can't teleport and doesn't have disintegrate they really aren't getting out of a wall of force dome.
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Jun 13, 2020 04:46
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:It's not elegant but I don't think there's any inherent balance problem, anymore than giving a fighter a cantrip. The janky part is how they aren't technically weapons and so don't benefit from Ranged Fighting style, there's no way to augment them with magic item bonuses etc. The sniper shot is coded in dndbeyond to receive the bonus from the archery fighting style so it must be intended despite the somewhat-vague wording.
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Jun 13, 2020 09:44
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cheesetriangles posted:DM found out today if the enemy can't teleport and doesn't have disintegrate they really aren't getting out of a wall of force dome. You can dig down, it’s a dome resting on a solid surface. But yeah it’s very strong.
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Jun 13, 2020 12:13
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Designing an airship, and instead of having the cannons rotate, I was thinking of giving True Strike to the party members who can learn it. An action to cast/load, and advantage on their attack next turn to act as a kind of magical homing shot. I figure nobody ever takes True Strike, since it's a little slow to actually use, but having it as an option might lead them to help set up attacks for each other during more traditional combat. Maybe help build that sense of battlefield camraderie. Any other ideas? Should I just give everyone True Strike even if they can't officially learn it? Maybe give them badges or something with it infused instead of the cantrip itself? Not give anyone True Strike and use Spell XYZ instead?
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Jun 13, 2020 16:22
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I don't think the Bilgewater subclasses are really that bad. Depths Barbarian would be terrible if it was targetting Con saves but all of its poo poo targets Strength which is actually a way rarer save, so the chances of it working are way higher. I would actually go as far as to say that a free, unconditional unlimited-use Misty Step with an attack attached is a little too strong. I do agree that the Renegade's major upgrades all need some form of scaling. I do think the upgrades to your firearm might need a bit of a pass for scaling, and Pistol got left on the cold comparitively but its playable. Double Up getting invalidated by GFB basically immediately is kind of hilariously bad tho. Wild Card Rogue, the worst of the three sets you have access to is definitely Dragonchess since it's at best discount Battlemaster, but the playing cards are solid and the dice giving you an alternative to Uncanny Dodge when you really just need to Not Get loving Hit works fine.
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Jun 13, 2020 16:43
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I like the flavor of the depths barbarian because there's no qualifier for how deep the water has to be, so even if you're in the middle of a dungeon or desert you can just splash a puddle on the ground and jump in
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Jun 13, 2020 16:48
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Ryuujin posted:Using a Cantrip as a Bonus Action when you take the Attack Action would have been much better. If this was how War Magic worked EKs would outrace purestrain Fighters even more than they already do with Booming/GFB + War Magic.
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Jun 13, 2020 17:01
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Tosk posted:I'm DMing 5e for the first time this weekend. It'll be the first session of a Descent into Avernus campaign, however, I'm following this setup guiding the party from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate as opposed to starting off in Baldur's Gate directly, and I think I'll be taking significant game design inspiration from this guy's review of the campaign and tweaks/overhauls. We'll be picking up the fourth party member (who can only join as of the 2nd session) on the way, so framing it as the journey to Baldur's Gate is convenient. Me again. I saw a recommendation to give level 1 characters +10 hp because the early game is super lethal. Is that a common house rule?
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Jun 13, 2020 20:19
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I didn't do it but I was super careful with the first couple of combats, also be none of us had played in at least half a decade, and I got them up to level 2 after the first session, and level 3 in session 3 or 4. I read that a lot of campaigns start at level 3 anyway, because of the issue you raise and that's when the players get their cool abilities, so having a few easy non-threatening sessions to get back into the roll of things sounded better to me than just flat out giving them a hp boost.
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Jun 13, 2020 20:45
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Tosk posted:Me again. I saw a recommendation to give level 1 characters +10 hp because the early game is super lethal. Is that a common house rule? Our DM gave us all an item at level 1 to give +3 to make hp to counter that and I think we just had our first death at level 4, so 10 might be a bit much but a little boost can't hurt.
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Jun 13, 2020 21:38
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