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I thought brown countries were incapable of having fair and free elections? 
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Jun 10, 2020 22:49
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Munin posted:The term itself is pretty well defined though even if, as with everything, there are issues categorising edge cases. Not to mention that even in the category of authoritarian regimes there are degrees and kinds. Not trying to veer too far out of Latin America discussion, but these could easily be applied to countries like France/USA/Canada as Venezuela/Cuba/etc. Like you said, there are 'degrees of authoritarianism', which primarily measure approval by the west. Painting Russia's smothering of its opposition groups as uniquely worse than the US state assassination campaign against civil rights groups is grounded more in propaganda than fact.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:23
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Squalid posted:i dont really know why so much emphasis is put on the statistics. The OAS report basically many, many allegations. The principle argument for fraud however rests on irregularities in the electronic voting system and with paper ballots. Additionally there was a statistical analysis of voting patterns. But even if there was a problem with that analysis, the OAS's argument doesn't rest on that. what a loving terrible post
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Jun 10, 2020 23:34
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brugroffil posted:Why is it so important to you to validate the pretext for a fascist coup? firstly its important to me because i very sincerely believe that reality matters, and we can't just re-imagine it to suit our purposes. For this reason it bothers me when people apparently don't care. Secondly the events leading up to Morales removal matter for Bolivians insofar as it relates to how Bolivia should proceed from here. I am in agreement with the OAS that new elections need to be held post-haste with sufficient measures to insure they they can be trusted. Trusted elections are the only way to resolve Bolivia's crisis, and if new elections are equally marred the result will inevitably be disaster for Bolivians. Pointing out that this research (which i might add, is in conflict with several other papers also pending publication) doesn't actually dispute the vast majority of OAS claims is important because posters here are already framing the NYTimes article as completely discrediting all of the OAS's research. Which it doesn't do. Assuming they are correct here and the OAS did gently caress up it wouldn't have changed their conclusions, resting as they did on a great deal of additional evidence.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:42
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Jose posted:what a loving terrible post your criticism might sting more if you weren't literally the dumbest poster in gbs
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Jun 10, 2020 23:43
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Squalid posted:your criticism might sting more if you weren't literally the dumbest poster in gbs Turn on your monitor.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:43
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Squalid posted:i dont really know why so much emphasis is put on the statistics. The OAS report basically many, many allegations. The principle argument for fraud however rests on irregularities in the electronic voting system and with paper ballots. Additionally there was a statistical analysis of voting patterns. But even if there was a problem with that analysis, the OAS's argument doesn't rest on that. The OAS report has basically no other points, it's a gish gallop. The IT complaints can be dismissed out of hand, similar setups exist in the western world without calls to redo elections. Their voter forgery complaints had little concrete evidence (so little opposition groups quickly started lighting ballot boxes on fire to prevent any verification). Additionally, giving the obvious issues with their statistical model which were raised days after the first reports were released, and OASs history of invalidating legitimate elections in Haiti/Venezuela/etc, it's reasonable to question their other claims which had little to no evidence.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:46
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Squalid posted:i dont really know why so much emphasis is put on the statistics. The OAS report basically many, many allegations. The principle argument for fraud however rests on irregularities in the electronic voting system and with paper ballots. Additionally there was a statistical analysis of voting patterns. But even if there was a problem with that analysis, the OAS's argument doesn't rest on that. i wanna see thy transubstantiation of sources
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Jun 10, 2020 23:48
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we need to gget to the source of this. i need to see the substantiation
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Jun 10, 2020 23:50
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Squalid posted:firstly its important to me because i very sincerely believe that reality matters, and we can't just re-imagine it to suit our purposes. For this reason it bothers me when people apparently don't care. "OAS research". "New elections should be held post haste" said the idiot clown after new elections have been postponed for more months and months now. How the gently caress are you still arguing this now after it is more than obvious that none of the OAS election heroes have any interest in having free or fair elections anytime soon. Like, really, which audience are you writing this poo poo for? Are there millions of impressionable lurkers in this thread that need to be properly propagandized?
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Jun 11, 2020 00:02
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Squalid posted:your criticism might sting more if you weren't literally the dumbest poster in gbs you're defending a fascist coup currently starving poor people and suppressing protests with the military you ghoul https://twitter.com/frrodriguezc/status/1270794349291454469?s=20
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Jun 11, 2020 00:03
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i'd rather be dumb as gently caress than defend fascists in dnd
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Jun 11, 2020 00:03
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yes, but what about reality Jose?
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Jun 11, 2020 00:07
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uninterrupted posted:The OAS report has basically no other points, it's a gish gallop. The IT complaints can be dismissed out of hand, similar setups exist in the western world without calls to redo elections. Their voter forgery complaints had little concrete evidence (so little opposition groups quickly started lighting ballot boxes on fire to prevent any verification). Additionally, giving the obvious issues with their statistical model which were raised days after the first reports were released, and OASs history of invalidating legitimate elections in Haiti/Venezuela/etc, it's reasonable to question their other claims which had little to no evidence. If similar IT problems are common, can you show me an example? Nobody has ever done that yet. In fact these issues were first identified by the private company contracted to run the election. The voter forgery complaints were also also based on the most concrete evidence, the ballot envelopes themselves. Also have you considered that the OAS doesn't have a history of invalidating elections in either of those two countries? Like what Venezuelan election are you thinking of where they refused to certify? because I can't remember it. The OAS has never invalidated a Haitian election either that I know of, what year are you thinking of? Oh by the way, in case anyone was interested, Bolivia's new election have been given a new date https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/bolivia-increases-virus-measures-for-elections/1863886 quote:Bolivia's Supreme Electoral Court (TSE) announced Tuesday it reached an agreement with political parties to hold elections Sept. 6.
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Jun 11, 2020 00:08
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the OAS has indeed validated every Haiti election won by a right wing crony of theirs, with the exception of that one Ariste term they let him have before orchestrating a coup
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Jun 11, 2020 00:12
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like... loving hell man, do you even know the first goddamn thing about Haitian history?
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Jun 11, 2020 00:16
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Hey everyone! Contrary to popular belief, this thread is for debate and discussion, not for dishing out sick one-line burns with no explanation toward anyone who has the incredible audacity to disagree with you on anything. Cut it the hell out.
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Jun 11, 2020 00:34
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Kurnugia posted:like... loving hell man, do you even know the first goddamn thing about Haitian history? He admitted he knew nothing about Haiti’s election earlier in the thread, then read the CIA Facebook on Haiti, then said Haiti should have their legitimate results invalidated because democracy can be complicated
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Jun 11, 2020 00:35
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Main Paineframe posted:Hey everyone! Contrary to popular belief, this thread is for debate and discussion, not for dishing out sick one-line burns with no explanation toward anyone who has the incredible audacity to disagree with you on anything. Cut it the hell out. sorry. I did have a serious point with Haiti tho, Haiti being a textbook case of what is currently going on in Bolivia, and with the OAS having the exact same role in Haiti post 2004 coup as it is currently having in Bolivia
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Jun 11, 2020 00:40
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Hey guys, just to let you all know that The Dollop did a recent episode about the failed Venezuela coup. https://allthingscomedy.com/podcast/the-dollop/430---jordan-goudreau-vs.-venezuela Trigger Warning for the Anti-Maduro crowd: They mention a couple of times that Maduro is a lovely "dictator" is he's just letting Guaido walk around.  Otherwise, it was a pretty fun listening experience.
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Jun 11, 2020 03:30
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I don't think anyone will argue that Guaido isn't a total incompetent but that's what happens to an opposition when the leaders are jailed one by one over a period of years. The PSUV are probably letting him run around because they know how much of a total failure at everything he is.
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Jun 11, 2020 07:39
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I don't think anyone will argue that Guaido isn't a total incompetent but that's what happens to an opposition when the leaders are jailed one by one over a period of years. The PSUV are probably letting him run around because they know how much of a total failure at everything he is. Does it really take that much to have a miserably incompetent opposition led by unlikeable failures?
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Jun 11, 2020 08:04
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE5kgkgYtvU
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Jun 12, 2020 04:37
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They' alReADy AgrEeD To EleCTionS! Merely 9 months after their "mandate" ran out! Oh, and they will be cancelled anyway! https://twitter.com/KawsachunNews/status/1271572328045051905
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Jun 13, 2020 00:02
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It's funny how we needed a coup to fix Bolivia's election, but now that there's a military dictatorship that won't hold elections at all hm well it would be really nice if they would
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Jun 13, 2020 00:33
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Spice World War II posted:They' alReADy AgrEeD To EleCTionS! Merely 9 months after their "mandate" ran out! Oh, and they will be cancelled anyway! Hope the MAS comes back with "given poor leadership seems to be the biggest indicator of poor outcomes and the two worst performing countries are right-wing, racist, fascist populists, seems like voting you out is the greatest public health initiative possible".
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Jun 13, 2020 02:34
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Electoralism is a dead end, especially under actual fascists. Wishing MAS best of luck when they have to start chucking poo poo.
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Jun 13, 2020 07:50
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So they just fired the health minister for hiding 50% of corona deaths, and replaced him with an antivax sympathizer. Cool cool.
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Jun 13, 2020 17:58
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Redczar posted:So they just fired the health minister for hiding 50% of corona deaths, and replaced him with an antivax sympathizer. Cool cool. Which country? Definitely not Brazil since we haven't had a health minister for months and the president would give him a medal for hiding corona deaths.
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Jun 13, 2020 18:26
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Chile. Though the av made it obvious, sorry
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Jun 13, 2020 19:18
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Water is wet, the sky is blue, western media is an imperialist tool. https://twitter.com/BrasilWire/status/1272496673038782465
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Jun 15, 2020 17:54
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bagual posted:Water is wet, the sky is blue, western media is an imperialist tool. Destruction to her agenda.
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Jun 15, 2020 18:22
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What the hell does "Ukrainization" of Brazil even mean? Can't be an euphemism for "whitening" because Ukrainians most certainly aren't, given they're Slavs.
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Jun 15, 2020 19:02
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ZearothK posted:What the hell does "Ukrainization" of Brazil even mean? Can't be an euphemism for "whitening" because Ukrainians most certainly aren't, given they're Slavs. I think it means emulating Euromaidan
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Jun 15, 2020 21:17
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ZearothK posted:What the hell does "Ukrainization" of Brazil even mean? Can't be an euphemism for "whitening" because Ukrainians most certainly aren't, given they're Slavs. Nazis marching around freely spanking politicians, journalists and leftists
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Jun 15, 2020 21:22
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https://twitter.com/BrianMteleSUR/s...ingawful.com%2F
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Jul 1, 2020 18:37
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Barack Obama being able to claim credit for both Jair Bolsonaro and Donald Trump has to be an amazing feeling
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Jul 1, 2020 19:55
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hey don't forget a string of ghouls in Honduras!
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Jul 1, 2020 20:07
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Might as well post this here. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53262767BBC posted:The UK High Court has ruled against Venezuela's government in a legal battle over access to $1bn (£820m) of gold stored in the Bank of England. Which, obviously it's not good for a country in a crisis and mired in debt to lose access to its gold reserve. Functionally, this isn't an active decision by the UK government, it's a consequence from them already having declared Maduro's presidency illegitimate. I don't see them changing their minds on that without some kind of move on Maduro's part. Even assuming the best of Maduro (which is a whole lot), I really don't see any way of him maneuvering Venezuela out of the situation it's in without somehow stepping down, although it'd be better if they could hold new elections instead of handing things to an unelected Guaido.
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Jul 2, 2020 19:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:Might as well post this here. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53262767 there's actually no reason to hold new elections, as he fairly and legitimately won the last ones the obvious solution is what he's been doing; build links with the rest of the world opposite western hegemony (China, Russia, etc) and work on building the nation back up.
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Jul 2, 2020 20:24
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