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SimplyUnknown1 posted:I think that's because their goals are a bit different. In the end, Akane and Sigma wanted an ending where everyone, or mostly everyone in Akane's case because of the Ninth Man, got out alive. The Nonary Games were a means to an end. This Decision game seems more violent and this Zero appears to be a bit more sadistic than the other Zeros we've come across. Did you and I play different versions of 999 and VLR? Akane and Dr. Klim killed shitwhacks of people, they just didn't stay dead because time travel. At this point, we have no reason to suspect that Zero is doing anything at all differently from them. Nidoking posted:I can't believe I was today years old when I realized that "Crash Keys" is just Akane and Aoi's last name. ... Oh God drat it.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:52
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 We have a runaway. Update will be in the morning.
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Jun 13, 2020 06:56
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Truthkeeper posted:Did you and I play different versions of 999 and VLR? Akane and Dr. Klim killed shitwhacks of people, they just didn't stay dead because time travel. At this point, we have no reason to suspect that Zero is doing anything at all differently from them. I'm saying this because the Zeros in 999 and VLR are mostly hands off. The deaths that occur in those games are mainly caused by the people within those games, not Zero themselves. They set up the circumstances, but it was still the individual's choice to kill, not Zero. Take Ace for example. He's the one who killed the Ninth Man by tricking him, who murdered the man he believed to be Snake, killed the man in the captain's uniform, and killed everyone else in various routes. However, this was his specific choice to do so. Akane/Zero specifically left him a message that he could leave freely either by winning the Nonary Game or confessing his sins. If he had worked together with everyone and hadn't tried to kill, then he could have left with everyone else. Zero may have put him in this situation, but the only other person who goes on a killing spree in these games is Clover and only then under specific circumstances. As for Virtue's Last Reward, Klim did set things up, but most of the deaths were either caused by the Rhizome 6 encouraging suicide or Dio. While you could definitely argue that infecting everyone with Rhizome 6 is a form of murder, you can't really say that Klim was responsible for Dio's actions. No one told Dio that he had to kill Akane in the Cyan and Magenta paths, or chain Tenmyouji and Clover to a sink so the bracelets would activate, or stab K with an axe. Heck, the only people who regularly die who Dio doesn't kill are Luna and Alice, and that's because Alice usually kills herself and Luna is killed by Clover! But my main reason for believing that this Zero is different from all others is his form of punishment. In 999, breaking the rules resulted in the bomb inside you exploding (or so everyone believed), but it only went off if the system believed that someone went through a Red door without the rest of the people who opened the door. Ace was able to exploit this system because the system was automated; it couldn't realize that the person breaking the rules stayed on the other side. Same with VLR, the bracelets went off only if they believed the person wasn't going through the door or was breaking the rules. Hence why Tenmyouji and Clover were punished. In this game, however, Zero's punishment isn't directed towards the individuals. If so, he would have just killed them all for breaking the rules. Instead, he's forcing them to turn and kill each other instead, which feels a lot more sadistic to me. The idea being "Hey, you didn't murder three people to save your lives, now you have to murder six."
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Jun 13, 2020 14:55
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Radical-6, not Rhizome 6. Meanwhile, while Dio technically did those things of his own accord, he was acting on orders from presumably Brother, an otherwise uninvolved party. AweStriker fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jun 13, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2020 15:18
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That's another issue I've got with the game. Beyond the whole team structure essentially cutting interesting character iterations out and all other things said, technically there aren't rules to break, this is very much a death game. Whereas VLR and 999 were Escape games. I am pretty sure I can figure out why this is the way it is, though I hope I'm wrong, That said, we've brought up both concepts from VLR and 999. Phi and Sigma trained their SHIFT abilities in VLR so they could come back here and use them in the game (Well, Phi did, Sigma went back to after Radical 6 got out and he lost his arms.)
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Jun 13, 2020 15:19
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It's a good point, even purely in terms of the structure of the games as they're presented. 999: "Seek the door marked with a 9." If you do the math, you discover that, had all of the characters remained alive, the numbered doors were set up so that at each set of doors, everyone could have gone through one and covered all of the paths. Granted, that's not the way the game turned out, but I don't think it's ever clear that that was by design. VLR: "When at least one person has 9 BP and pulls the lever, all people with at least 9 BP can escape." Working together is explicitly the goal of this game, even though people have the opportunity to betray each other. ZTD: "When six people are dead, the remaining three will be able to leave." It's quite clear that most of the players are not meant to survive. When the characters do indeed work together and pass the first hurdle without killing each other, the message is "No, that's not how you're supposed to do it, try again." Even if, at some point, Zero II relents and drops that idea, the game still begins with the expectation that there will be few survivors and runs with that. The initial coin flip is the only time at which it's given that there is an avenue for everyone to survive, and that's entirely up to chance.
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Jun 13, 2020 15:56
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It is worth pointing out in the Nonary Game and the Ambidex Game, there was a deliberate need to have a 'danger' present so that their psychic powers would develop. Ace in the Nonary Game, Dio in the Ambidex Game. In fact, Dio believed he'd infiltrated the game when Akane makes it clear not only did they know he was coming, they let him in on purpose to be the danger present.
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Jun 13, 2020 15:58
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Part 37: First come, first saved: Q Time to take the last team through the Decontamination Room.  One of two remaining new fragments for Q-Team. Though there are still a lot of locked ones. And we haven't finished any of Q-Team's fragments, either...  Same look to this fragment as the others, so let's get started.  Music: Sinisterness Phase 1  What is this, indeed. This isn't the Decontamination Room!  The dialogue here has a slight echo effect.   May you rest in peace.   Screaming.  A bad dream? Or...something more?   Wh... What the hell...What, you don't wake up screaming?      Jumped...?  Dream... And fade to black. This whole scene doesn't occur normally, and I had no idea it was here until I saw it while recording this update. But I did some experimenting off-screen and figured it out. You see, the Execution fragments are kind of special. The game remembers your last decision in each fragment, and uses those votes to determine some other things later on. Obviously the vote results and the subsequent execution scene are the most obvious of these effects. But you also get a special scene in a team's Decontamination Room fragment, if the last recorded votes in the Execution fragments, resulted in that team being executed. We can also only see this extra scene once. Replaying the fragment appears to skip the extra scene if it's already been viewed. When we go back and replay the other Execution fragments, I'll also show these extra scenes for the other teams. For now, let's get back to the Decontamination Room... Music: CQD Ward BGM 1  Let us out! Let us out of here!  How long are you planning on doing that?   Just take a sec and calm down. We need cool heads. HEY!    Maybe the door opens with it...When you think about it, it's weird that no one presses the button before the explanation of what it does. In every other room a team gets stuck in, we go and press everything in sight trying to get out. But for some reason in here we're content to just sit around.  I-I really wasn't going to push it though.Sure you weren't.   We haven't heard anything from Zero. Just sitting around here is useless...     The only thing we know for sure is what time it is. 18:08...   And at your age even.   I recall you having trouble calculating change when we first met...Half the jokes I try to make, Mira makes for me.   I wanna hear! I wanna hear! Y-Yeah?  Eric gets down on his knees in front of Mira.   The fateful encounter was on a Monday. This will be, what, the third time we've heard this story in some form. First from Mira with Eric already dead, then from Eric with Mira already dead. Now we hear it from Eric, in front of Mira. The sky that morning in Nebraska was full of thick clouds, though the gloom cleared in an instant, like a miracle.Music: Reminiscence  I always mustered up my best smile for customers, even the boring regulars I was tired of seeing. I still offered the most delicious ice cream to them. I was getting sick of it though. Oh, now don't think it was my work I was unsatisfied with. I really, truly love ice cream. But as the days passed, everything felt hollow. As if there was a hole in my heart. I'd thought it was just another normal day. I wasn't expecting the moment it changed. I couldn't believe my eyes. I didn't think such a beautiful sight existed in this world. My God, the feelings that hit me. I'd never felt anything like that before. That was when I realized... This. This had to be a miracle. Mm hm. Mira entered my life. She was an angel that looked like a customer! Um, shouldn't it be the other way? The details aren't important. You look like you don't understand. I didn't get it either. Mira was just such a vivacious vision of beauty. I was just a lowly ice cream shop employee. Next to that... There was no way I would be a good match. But then Mira-- Cut it out.  You really are an angel to me, Mira!  Even Mira finds that idea ridiculous, outright laughing at Eric.  Eric starts laughing, too. Just because, I guess.   Missing Lip Animations: 28 Well, earlier...you were being... Your face was pretty scary.   I'm so sorry. You were probably just rattled about what's happened to us.  You're an odd duck.  Guess you've calmed down, huh? But yeah, I'm okay now. I can definitely smile no matter what...Keep smiling, Eric. Music: Sinisterness Phase 3      They wanted to investigate how a closed space affected change on emotions, right? But then why did they want normal people like us to apply? Wouldn't you want people in helpful professions to go to Mars? Like military officials, researchers... Other skilled professionals like that? Maybe the reason they chose civilian subjects is Hm, that sounds right. Strangers living together on Mars for an extended period of time. What kind of problems would that bring? How would the subjects figure out solutions to the resulting troublesome situations. According to the Dcom staff, that's what the experiment was trying to determine. Like the chair-bound old man...  Maybe they expect to be part of a colonization of Mars in the future? Colonizing Mars...Is Dcom, Space-X?    If you want to transport live koi from Brazil to Japan, putting only koi fish in an aquarium will result in most of them dying. But by adding something to that same container, you won't lose a single one.  Missing Lip Animations: 29 A piranha?  I get it... That nervous state becomes the power to keep them alive. Uh huh. I see... Ha.  Fierce look from Mira, here. If we hadn't already seen the Study fragment, would that be a clue?   Eric, don't say scary things like that.  Living quietly in Dcom becomes boring, so the emotional state will fade. If you intentionally inject a sense of emergency-- A little late perhaps, but I will now announce the voting results.Music: Zero (Unary Game Remix)  All three groups have voted for different teams. Therefore, none have been executed. The current death count: 0. I can't say this is an ideal situation for any of us involved. It appears that none of you fully grasp the essence of this game. Think back on the rules you were told... You will remain in this shelter for eternity until six people are killed. I will give you one last chance. A single action from you may result in your escape from the depths. What must you do? It's simple. I shall show you.Music: CQD Ward BGM 3  The other two teams are listening to a message just like this one... In their ward's Decontamination Room...  The construction of all of them are the same. A yellow button exists on the wall in each. Pressing it activates the showers in the other wards, and they will rain down a solution of hydrogen fluoride.  It's not only acidic enough to melt a body, but it even dissolves glass and iron. Explaining what would happen if you were under it seems unnecessary.   That button on the wall is your way to freedom. Using it will kill the other teams, and you will obtain the needed X-Passes to escape. I have one final thing to tell you. The early bird gets the worm. After the first team pushes it, the button will become inactive for both of the other teams. Your time limit is three minutes. What will you do? Will you press it? Or refuse?   I can't even blame Eric for this reaction, when Junpei and Sigma acted the same way. Music: Strain 2nd Mix  Eric turns...  ...and makes a break for the button.  We need to trust the others!We're going to win this thing with the power of trust and friendship!  What the hell do you know?! Wh-Where did the nice Eric go--?!  Wh-Why, Eric...?! A yell fueled by the old crazy eyes.  A collision of some kind, and Eric grunts in pain, then falls. The music stops here, as well.  Mira... At least he's quiet now. I'll leave the rest of this up to you. Huh...?   The heartbeat thumps.  Music: Tough Decision (Make Your Choice)  It may just be a formality at this point, but I at least have to ask. Press the button? Extras:  We have one new file. While the topic of Dcom being a private enterprise came up, no one mentioned that is was basically run by Free the Soul. Are they the ones responsible for the Decision Game, too?
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Jun 13, 2020 16:14
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Eric continues to be extremely hosed up. In both ways, honestly.
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Jun 13, 2020 16:48
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DKII posted:
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Jun 13, 2020 17:26
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Wait, who's the 'chair-bound old man' Eric mentions? Nobody on the cast is really that old unless you count Sigma.
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Jun 13, 2020 17:45
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I just realized there's no hinges or handles on Q's helmet, but have no idea what to do with that information.
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Jun 13, 2020 18:31
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TheSoulian posted:Wait, who's the 'chair-bound old man' Eric mentions? Nobody on the cast is really that old unless you count Sigma. I dunno if Sigma counts, but he's not chair-bound, so...who knows. Anyway, how about we don't traumatize the kid with his head in a fishbowl? Don't push that button!
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Jun 13, 2020 18:32
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Back in VLR, I sympathised with Luna's always-Ally approach a lot. I'd think, what excuse has anyone got to not Ally at the start, when they'd still be ok even if they do get screwed the first round? Just work together and everyone can have 9 points real quick in a couple rounds, you total idiots! God! But here, this yellow-button conundrum really makes me uncomfortable. Even though I think it's completely morally abhorrent to condemn someone else to a gruesome death by pushing a button like this, goddamn that sounds like such a horrific way to go. Even I would be extremely tempted to ditch all thoughts of playing nice, and quickly push the button out of sheer terror and self-preservation. This Zero really is way more messed up.
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Jun 13, 2020 18:48
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TheSoulian posted:Wait, who's the 'chair-bound old man' Eric mentions? Nobody on the cast is really that old unless you count Sigma. I'm working on a theory but it sounds too stupid to possibly be true so it probably is. We've seen a wheelchair, talk of a handicap guy, calling Q blind and deaf, and we can't see Qs portrait on top of the game giving a "name needed" error when trying to put in Q during the standoff. Do we ever see the other members of Q team call the kid Q? Assuming this extra person exists we never see them and Zero in the same room.... But then why the heck do people think he's part of Q team? The LEADER, even? I'm missing something dumb as hell I just know it. Second biggest flaw, then who the heck is this kid and why is he not on the board? It's getting there but we're missing pieces.
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Jun 13, 2020 19:04
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Fumbles posted:Do we ever see the other members of Q team call the kid Q? Looking back through the thread, the answer seems to be "no". They do call him "kid" many times, but never once "Q". NeverHelm fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jun 13, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2020 19:38
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quote:: D
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Jun 13, 2020 19:46
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Blind, deaf, chair-bound old man that everyone met at D-COM? Hm, looking back on Eric's reaction at the beginning, when told that Q, the group leader, must submit the vote  He's not looking at our helmet-boy. 
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Jun 13, 2020 20:35
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I just realized there's no hinges or handles on Q's helmet, but have no idea what to do with that information. There's a hatch in the back with a keypad. Putting that crack to give him a mouth was a good design choice. It really adds to the character.
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Jun 13, 2020 21:07
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Bifauxnen posted:Back in VLR, I sympathised with Luna's always-Ally approach a lot. I'd think, what excuse has anyone got to not Ally at the start, when they'd still be ok even if they do get screwed the first round? Just work together and everyone can have 9 points real quick in a couple rounds, you total idiots! God! For this, I think there are a couple of reasons depending on which path you're on. For the Magenta and Cyan doors, you have the first vote after a murder has occurred. The only people you've seen could have murdered this person so there's a real fear that could drive you to pick Betray to avoid being killed, or to get someone else out in the case of Tenmyouji and Quark. There's also the fact that people are being influenced by the morphogenic field and decisions made in other paths, like with Alice for example or Sigma/Phi. But the major part of the prisoner's dilemma actually comes from the definition. "A prisoner's dilemma is a situation where individual decision makers always have an incentive to choose in a way that creates a less than optimal outcome for the individuals as a group." Cooperation is of course always an ideal solution, but in a situation like the Nonary Game, trust is usually in short supply at the start of the game between the entire group. There are a few people who automatically trust each other like with Junpei/Akane and Snake/Clover in the first game or Clover/Alice and Tenmyouji/Quark in the second, but it's not cohesive through the entire group. And it only takes one person acting selfishly, like Dio or K in most first rounds, to bring the cooperation crashing down. And if you successfully betray twice, you can leave the game in only 2 rounds rather than waiting for 3 with everyone Allying every time, or more if you have to wait for people to gain their 9 points. And what if you lose the 9 points you earn along the way, or someone never makes it to 9 BP? You could be trapped for a long time. You also have to take the Radical-6 infection into account as that does induce a strong desire to kill oneself and can cause people to behave erratically. And if they're taken out of the voting chance, wouldn't it be tempting to vote Betray against someone you know is going to Ally? A lot of benefit with no risk though it rarely works out for Sigma. Fear is a powerful motivator and the desire to get out of a dangerous situation could trump the logic of getting everyone out or the dangers of betraying especially on the first turn. Which is why Dio usually ends up in trouble.
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Jun 13, 2020 22:21
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SimplyUnknown1 posted:Fear is a powerful motivator and the desire to get out of a dangerous situation could trump the logic of getting everyone out or the dangers of betraying especially on the first turn. Which is why Dio usually ends up in trouble. Yeah, sitting here reading a ZTD LP instead of a VLR one, it's a lot easier to understand that feeling. I mean, even a stubborn "let's just everyone work together and get along" chump like me is thinking about slamming the acid bath button now 
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Jun 13, 2020 22:29
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SimplyUnknown1 posted:For the Magenta and Cyan doors, you have the first vote after a murder has occurred. Akane wasn't murdered in the Cyan path, she was murdered in the Magenta and Yellow paths.
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Jun 13, 2020 22:43
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W.T. Fits posted:Akane wasn't murdered in the Cyan path, she was murdered in the Magenta and Yellow paths. ...Yeah, you're right. I was looking at a map that didn't have colors and for some reason I always pair Alice with the Yellow door and Tenmyouji with the Cyan. My bad!
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Jun 13, 2020 23:03
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SimplyUnknown1 posted:...Yeah, you're right. I was looking at a map that didn't have colors and for some reason I always pair Alice with the Yellow door and Tenmyouji with the Cyan. My bad! I always do the same thing too, I think it's because those are the colours of their portraits every time they play the AB game. Luna's Magenta there too.
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Jun 13, 2020 23:03
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Watching Q-Team fragments gets fun when you play the "Guess when Eric turns into a raging rear end in a top hat" game, though in this case it was a pretty easy guess to make 
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Jun 14, 2020 00:43
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Super Jay Mann posted:Watching Q-Team fragments gets fun when you play the "Guess when Eric turns into a raging rear end in a top hat" game, though in this case it was a pretty easy guess to make Is it a day ending in y?
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Jun 14, 2020 01:13
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wologar posted:He's not looking at our helmet-boy. I get the feeling that if there's a big twist coming, it's from Q-Team. These games love to use the player's assumptions about what perspective they're seeing from against them, so that feels like what's coming. I think there's a 10th player that the game's trying to be coy about. This is also really dumb, but this is called the decision game, and deci is associated with 10. TheSoulian fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 02:53
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TheSoulian posted:This is also really dumb, but this is called decision game, and deci is associated with 10. man that is exactly the kind of bullshit i expect from this series god i hope you're right 
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Jun 14, 2020 04:44
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Part 38: Don't Press (4) Going for the third time through without pressing the button.  Just have to let the timer run out one more time...  Music: Divulgation 2nd Mix  It seems like the other teams didn't press it either.  Eric suddenly sits up, gasping.   Missing Lip Animations: 30   Wh-What? Watch where you're staring! It seems there may be a misunderstanding, so I shall clear it up for you. I never said the showers would activate as soon as the button was pressed. Which means... You've yet to learn whether the button has been activated by someone or not.    Now, it is time for you to sleep. When next you wake, know that you will have no memory of these past ninety minutes. Pleasant dreams... Nooooo!Falling sounds again.  And the fragment is over.  Hey, there's a new fragment there. Bottom row, second from the left. Looks like C-Team is looking at a box - the Force Quit Box that each team found in the Execution fragments. (The Rec Room fragment doesn't say "NEW" because I recorded part of it earlier.)  Q-Team has a similar new fragment, in the upper-left corner.  As does D-Team, in the upper-right corner.  I'll call these new fragments "Force Quit" after the box, and add them to the poll. So now we have eight new framgents (five from before, and the three we just unlocked) and five fragments available for replay. Where to next? Select the story fragment.
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Jun 14, 2020 04:49
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I’m not particular on which team (I chose D), but it’d be nice to go back and see what happens if we press the decontamination room button 
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Jun 14, 2020 04:55
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If you've already recorded part of it, might as well get it out of the way. Let's go with the Rec Room.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:35
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TheSoulian posted:I get the feeling that if there's a big twist coming, it's from Q-Team. These games love to use the player's assumptions about what perspective they're seeing from against them, so that feels like what's coming. I think I just figured it out but it's so hilariously dumb and kind of bullshit I hope I'm wrong and there's some better, more logical explanation for what's going on. I'm just going to stop speculating about Q-Team now because if I'm right about this I can't wait to see the reaction people will have to it. I guess let's do the Q-Team Force Quit fragment to see if it continues the current thread.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:53
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I realized something interesting: while no one directly on Q-Team refers to 'Q' as anything but kid, when 'Q' dies in the standoff, the announcement says Q has died.
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Jun 14, 2020 06:51
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please sir, may I have some puzzles
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Jun 14, 2020 06:57
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BlazeEmblem posted:If you've already recorded part of it, might as well get it out of the way. Let's go with the Rec Room. Well, I didn't mean to bias the results. But we have gone a long time without a puzzle room. So I was trying to get a little ahead on one of the more popular choices last time.
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Jun 14, 2020 07:27
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TheSoulian posted:I realized something interesting: while no one directly on Q-Team refers to 'Q' as anything but kid, when 'Q' dies in the standoff, the announcement says Q has died. Actually, the announcement comes before he's gone completely. He's still reaching for Mira for a moment afterwards. Though we don't know what counts as "dead" for the purposes of X-passes.
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Jun 14, 2020 07:38
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TheSoulian posted:I realized something interesting: while no one directly on Q-Team refers to 'Q' as anything but kid, when 'Q' dies in the standoff, the announcement says Q has died.
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Jun 14, 2020 08:45
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Looks like we're headed to the Rec Room. I'm holding off on speculation simply because I've got no clue at the moment. Something's definitely up with Q Team but I wonder if it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. Though I think the premise of the game has something to do with Mira and Eric's past.
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Jun 14, 2020 14:46
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 This one actually surprised me; I thought we'd be replaying one of the Decontamination Rooms, or trying out one of the fragments we just unlocked, but it looks like the thread wants a break from cut-scenes so it's back to a puzzle room. I have the footage recorded but like most puzzle rooms the write-up will still take awhile. Shooting for getting the update out tonight.
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Jun 14, 2020 18:06
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 09:42 |
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I like how you go 'a while' and then 'oh it'll be out tonight'. You are an LP MACHINE.
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Jun 14, 2020 18:11
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