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Yeah both those statements are true lol
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Jun 13, 2020 18:57
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Metapod posted:Yeah both those statements are true lol Calling the Malkavians "the mentally ill getting some representation" is just shockingly cynical and offensive. I'm staggered that someone could be so stupid as to think that the people they're talking to are so stupid.
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Jun 13, 2020 18:59
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Lurks With Wolves posted:I will admit that this thread does have a bias against V5. A bias that mostly exists because it started with Martin Ericsson making a bunch of edgy promises about how it's going to tackle modern issues and then hired noted harasser/pants-shitter Zak S to make a promotional game and handled ISIS refugees in a hamhanded way in a preview adventure and caused a literal international incident when the second book called an actual organized effort to kill gay people a vampiric smokescreen.
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Jun 13, 2020 19:12
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Ferrinus posted:Calling the Malkavians "the mentally ill getting some representation" is just shockingly cynical and offensive. I'm staggered that someone could be so stupid as to think that the people they're talking to are so stupid. Its offensive to call one of the pillar clans a representative for how people with mental illness are still beneficial to society?
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Jun 13, 2020 19:33
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Metapod posted:Its offensive to call one of the pillar clans a representative for how people with mental illness are still beneficial to society? Yes, incredibly. I shudder to think of what you'll be saying about the Ravnos when they next show up. It's really sickening how obviously disingenuous this is, too. Like for some reason V5 is so important to you that you're just scraping the bottom of the barrel for anything you can possibly find, and you figure this tepid faux-social justice language is good enough to do the job.
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Jun 13, 2020 19:41
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Metapod posted:Its offensive to call one of the pillar clans a representative for how people with mental illness are still beneficial to society? Yes, on several levels, that we've tried to explain to you before. And even if it wasn't, trotting out one clan to point at as evidence that you game is good and your detractors are the real nazis is like saying you have a black friend so you can't possibly be a bigot.
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Jun 13, 2020 20:05
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It's always hilarious to me how much harm Oberst and Metapod (who are either the same person or so close as to be indistinguishable) do to the reputation of V5 in this thread. They only ever pop in to the thread to be hyper stans for it, but when they do they're such garbage posters they make their cherished vampgame look awful by proxy. Consider the time Oberst told a woman being sexually harassed it's her own fault for being too sexy, or every time Metapod tries to pretend that Malkavians are positive representation, or the times where one of them (I forget which since they're basically the same) smashes in yelling about how the thread is doing a harassment campaign on some rando on the internet nobody had heard of, or the time one of them mocked people who didn't like problematic elements in the game for not being mature roleplayers like they are  .Metapod, Oberst, serious talk: If you want people to regard V5 more positively then either shape up or ship out. You one have done a more thorough job tarnishing V5 than anyone in this thread, and certainly more than anyone but Swedracula himself.
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Jun 13, 2020 23:23
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Hey, Werewolf's getting a second video game. https://twitter.com/worldofdarkness/status/1271936909321760768 Not a dang clue as to gameplay, but it appears to be an RPG.
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Jun 14, 2020 00:26
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Hey, Werewolf's getting a second video game.
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Jun 14, 2020 00:45
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Omnicrom posted:It's always hilarious to me how much harm Oberst and Metapod (who are either the same person or so close as to be indistinguishable) do to the reputation of V5 in this thread. They aren't going to do that because they're only here to troll, and you saying all this is just giving them positive affirmation.
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Jun 14, 2020 00:59
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What is the difference between v20 and fifth edition? I looked at a pdf of Requiem 2nd and it’s not going to do it, so I was thinking of checking out the current owod offerings. Is the twentieth anniversary edition basically the version I played back in college, while 5th edition continues the setting past Gehenna like it wasn’t the actual end days?
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Jun 14, 2020 05:05
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the 20th anniversary editions are basically huge collections of all the 3rd edition media brought into one book with the storyline roughly brought up to the current day (While also pushing back the end times as necessary) It uses the same rules as Revised with limited changes, and they have relatively complete compendiums of disciplines, bloodlines, and merits. It's the "Final" Version of what you played in college, more or less. V5 basically ignores that the 20th anniversary books came out, Gehenna happened but it wasn't the world changing apocalypse that people feared it would be. The mechanics are completely different though they still use d10s.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:18
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Kurieg posted:the 20th anniversary editions are basically huge collections of all the 3rd edition media brought into one book with the storyline roughly brought up to the current day (While also pushing back the end times as necessary) It uses the same rules as Revised with limited changes, and they have relatively complete compendiums of disciplines, bloodlines, and merits. It's the "Final" Version of what you played in college, more or less. Both have nothing to do with the nazi dress up guy, right?
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Jun 14, 2020 05:20
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V5 Core and Camarilla were created during the tenure of "Nazi Dress Up Guy", though after Camarilla he was shitcanned and that book was edited to remove the international incident.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:23
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Kurieg posted:V5 Core and Camarilla were created during the tenure of "Nazi Dress Up Guy", though after Camarilla he was shitcanned and that book was edited to remove the international incident. Got it. I think I might check out the 20th anniversary then. Pretty sure Revised is what we played back in the day.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:26
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mysterious frankie posted:Got it. I think I might check out the 20th anniversary then. Pretty sure Revised is what we played back in the day. Unless college was a very long time ago you either played 2nd or revised edition, which are nearly indistinguishable mechanics wise. Mainly Revised removed most of the ways for players to shift target numbers. So it will probably look quite familiar to you.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:29
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Kurieg posted:Unless college was a very long time ago you either played 2nd or revised edition, which are nearly indistinguishable mechanics wise. Mainly Revised removed most of the ways for players to shift target numbers. So it will probably look quite familiar to you. Nice! Thanks!
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Jun 14, 2020 05:31
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mysterious frankie posted:Both have nothing to do with the nazi dress up guy, right? Which nazi dress up guy?
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Jun 14, 2020 05:44
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Swedracula, who dressed up like Dracula and was, even at the most charitable interpretation, accidentally Nazi adjacent, and wanted to see more Facism in the games he played.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:48
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Kurieg posted:Swedracula, who dressed up like Dracula and was, at the most charitable interpretation, accidentally Nazi adjacent. That’s the guy. I didn’t remember the name and I don’t know the full story, just that there was at least one international incident and literal 1488 references under his watch.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:51
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There's a really long writeup describing everything wrong with Swedracula, but I'm too tired to hunt it down right now. But I do remember a few stories that kind of encapsulates why he's kind of a... problematic figure. During the grand masquerade convention prior to V5's launch they had a Q&A panel, and a woman asked him how they were going to address gender issues in their game, particularly in the dark ages which was a setting he was very keen on resurrecting. His response was that historical realism was paramount and it was important that women be discriminated against in historical settings otherwise why even have them, but not to worry, female characters wouldn't get 75% of the resource dots that a man would get. The person running the panel then grabbed the microphone and asked for another question so that Swedracula couldn't somehow dig himself even deeper than rock bottom. He also called original white wolf pussies for not capitalizing on 9/11 in New York By Night. NYBN came out in November 2001, by the way. He also expressed interest in doing a new "Gypsys" book while acknowledging that he'd have to call them Roma now to be PC. And he said that he wanted to return werewolf to their "Cryptofacist" roots. All three of those things were in one interview, I believe.
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Jun 14, 2020 06:15
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mysterious frankie posted:That’s the guy. I didn’t remember the name and I don’t know the full story, just that there was at least one international incident and literal 1488 references under his watch. EDIT: wait Keurig covered this already how did I miss those posts 
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Jun 14, 2020 06:24
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Lurks With Wolves posted:I will admit that this thread does have a bias against V5. A bias that mostly exists because it started with Martin Ericsson making a bunch of edgy promises about how it's going to tackle modern issues and then hired noted harasser/pants-shitter Zak S to make a promotional game and handled ISIS refugees in a hamhanded way in a preview adventure and caused a literal international incident when the second book called an actual organized effort to kill gay people a vampiric smokescreen. The thread is only aggressive over oberst or metapod posts, because they actually derail all other discussion on v5 into their strange cheerleading of it being the best game ever. I *really* want other people to post more about the edition without engaging with those two so we can have real discussions on the have with people who've actually played it. There is a very real reason I have the op saying to put those two on ignore.
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Jun 14, 2020 06:30
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Soonmot posted:The thread is only aggressive over oberst or metapod posts, because they actually derail all other discussion on v5 into their strange cheerleading of it being the best game ever. I *really* want other people to post more about the edition without engaging with those two so we can have real discussions on the have with people who've actually played it. I'll be honest, I forgot oberst had a history of running into the thread and being a jackass about it. I thought they were new, and I might as well give a new weirdly aggressive poster a chance to chill out and understand where the thread's coming from.
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Jun 14, 2020 14:06
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Kurieg posted:There's a really long writeup describing everything wrong with Swedracula, but I'm too tired to hunt it down right now. But I do remember a few stories that kind of encapsulates why he's kind of a... problematic figure. Y'know, I was just about to chime in saying that he was just an idiot edgelord, not full on fash....then I saw this. Holy loving poo poo. (And the tasteful disclaimer box at the beginning of NYBN acknowledging 9/11and being very explicit about not making it a plot element must have causedd him physical pain.)
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Jun 14, 2020 14:46
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Just how horror adjacent do you folks run your World of Darkness? Of any era and edition. I feel like this thread and others start on a footing of at least making the tone of events severe and gut punching. However, in my experience, my players always get pissy when their super speed corpses get a little trounced because they didn't expect a ghost to be able to fight back. Do most of y'all shoot for more of a CW style? Seems like sometimes the magic powers cause players expectations to warp towards YA urban fantasy as opposed to horror.
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Jun 14, 2020 14:57
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Baby Broomer posted:Just how horror adjacent do you folks run your World of Darkness? Of any era and edition. I feel like this thread and others start on a footing of at least making the tone of events severe and gut punching. However, in my experience, my players always get pissy when their super speed corpses get a little trounced because they didn't expect a ghost to be able to fight back. Do most of y'all shoot for more of a CW style? Seems like sometimes the magic powers cause players expectations to warp towards YA urban fantasy as opposed to horror. My V5 game made it clear up front to the players this is a horror game, there are worse things running around besides them. The response to the Carpenter's The Thing monster I tossed at them was "UH WTF?!" And the Tremere player who saw it first had a great reaction which was exactly what I hoped for. I'd say if you want it to be more horror and less CW drama, talk to your players. Sure they have cool rear end powers but those powers aren't going to save them every time a horrible gribblie from somewhere shows up to wreck poo poo. Talk to your players basically, that's the solution to most table top issues.
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Jun 14, 2020 15:32
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Baby Broomer posted:Just how horror adjacent do you folks run your World of Darkness? Of any era and edition. I feel like this thread and others start on a footing of at least making the tone of events severe and gut punching. However, in my experience, my players always get pissy when their super speed corpses get a little trounced because they didn't expect a ghost to be able to fight back. Do most of y'all shoot for more of a CW style? Seems like sometimes the magic powers cause players expectations to warp towards YA urban fantasy as opposed to horror. I tend to leave that up to the players. If you're going to take over a senior living center for easy feeding then that can be a multi-session endeavour involving the coterie or just spending some xp off screen. If players aren't interested in the horror aspects then you downplay how hosed up it is to turn people who are more likely to die than a random person in the Rack into your personal feeding stock but you can also talk about a moment of realization where they've made keeping themselves easily fed the priority over killing elderly people sooner. If they're at Humanity 5 or lower I wouldn't bother with a roll but if they're trying hard not to succumb to comfortable numbness wrt killing then it's probably a check to hold on to Humanity.
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Jun 14, 2020 15:58
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Yeah, I guess just asking up front how serious they want to take things would be the best approach. It's probably just a miscommunication on who wants to play Blade and who wants to play Only Lovers Left Alive.
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Jun 14, 2020 17:09
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A session or two of What We Do In The Shadows can be nice as well on occasion.
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Jun 14, 2020 17:14
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I guess these types of games seem to encourage a tight control of things on the ST's part, or perhaps that's my own bias from starting with Pathfinder back in high school. The in-universe fiction always seems to imply a sense of ever present style, for lack of a better word. Then again, I should probably be trying to run a game, not a short story.
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Jun 14, 2020 17:19
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Relevant Tangent posted:A session or two of What We Do In The Shadows can be nice as well on occasion. Honestly this is probably the closest to general tone my group does. I've played the vast majority of games with one group of people (4 core and about 5 others who have been in a campaign or two over the last decade). Virtually every campaign, regardless of setting, becomes a political action-comedy. Lots of Death of Stalin vibe even a decade before that came out. I've been running Promethean a bit more seriously, but it's not so much horror as introspection. Still lots of comedy.
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Jun 14, 2020 17:27
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Baby Broomer posted:Just how horror adjacent do you folks run your World of Darkness? Of any era and edition. I feel like this thread and others start on a footing of at least making the tone of events severe and gut punching. However, in my experience, my players always get pissy when their super speed corpses get a little trounced because they didn't expect a ghost to be able to fight back. Do most of y'all shoot for more of a CW style? Seems like sometimes the magic powers cause players expectations to warp towards YA urban fantasy as opposed to horror. My group lives by "be gay, do crime" so the tone tends to be less serious. I find that's really useful because when I do bring out the horror elements, or make something serious, it really ups the stakes for my players.
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Jun 14, 2020 18:02
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Soonmot posted:My group lives by "be gay, do crime" so the tone tends to be less serious. I find that's really useful because when I do bring out the horror elements, or make something serious, it really ups the stakes for my players. Basically this. this Deep RP is not something I’ve ever been able to achieve in Tabletop, tbh, aside from PBP.
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Jun 14, 2020 18:29
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When I run nWoD, I usually go for a John Carpenter vibe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVFlMy5kdw
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Jun 14, 2020 18:29
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I've always found it very hard to, as a player, buy in to the whole horror aspect of any horror game because... I'm sitting at my kitchen table with my fellow nerds. I can get excited and annoyed and sad, but not scared.
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Jun 14, 2020 19:14
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Hattie Masters posted:I've always found it very hard to, as a player, buy in to the whole horror aspect of any horror game because... I'm sitting at my kitchen table with my fellow nerds. I can get excited and annoyed and sad, but not scared. I was able to pull it off one time while running Call of Cthulhu. Actually had everyone jump at one point. Man that was gratifying. The Vampire games I played in were always straight up action adventure. I remember they were fun, but pretty generic; you work for the prince and he sends you somewhere different every session to break something new. I’m hoping to bias more toward horror and investigation, as well as an actual long form storytelling, this time out.
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Jun 14, 2020 19:29
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Just make sure that the players are fully invested in that mood. All it takes is one player to undercut all the tension you're trying to build. Let them know that it's not like you're banning jokes or goofy stuff, but that they should make an effort to think through how their actions are eroding their humanity and how easy it is to give into that voice in the back of their head. oWoD just does straight up XP, but in CoD with the 5 beats=1XP I'll use beats or beneficial conditions to tempt my players into bad choices (but choices that still introduce interesting of fun elements to the game. Drama = good, loving over players = bad). Playing to their vices, setting up situations that you know the actual player can't resist investigating or messing with no matter what their character would do, all of these are good tools.
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Jun 14, 2020 19:46
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It can also be good to figure out what will happen if your players aren't interested in dealing with the horror aspects. If everyone starts acting like superheroes with fangs then starts frenzying at the drop of a hat because they've lost their last toehold on Humanity that can also be horror. This Anacillae was only just barely keeping the Beast in check, they just found out you destroyed their cherished possession as a prank, and they've visibly lost the battle for sanity. Probably should have made sure there were witnesses who mattered instead of taunting them in front of the Kine though.
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Jun 15, 2020 03:13
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I'd like to thank everyone for the V5 replies! Seriously. I checked out Reddit and the Onyx Path forums for game advice, and it was more even more contentious over there. I only recently found out about V5, so I was not around for the serious issues that it had. I considered VtR and V20 as well, but I'm most interested in the new mechanics of V5. I had a feeling they were a little more finicky than they first appeared, and I see that is indeed the case. Thank you again for the articles and advice!
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Jun 16, 2020 03:28
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