|
Randaconda posted:Shane has wrestled enough high profile matches, and been terrible in every single one, that I'm comfortable including him in this discussion. Shane has had good matches like his Kurt Angle one.
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 06:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 16:10 |
|
|
fatherofmustard posted:Shane has had good matches like his Kurt Angle one. The good matches that Vince and Shane have had are good/watchable in spite of them, not because of them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 07:01
|
|
|
fatherofmustard posted:Shane has had good matches like his Kurt Angle one. 1) overrated as hell 2) should have had an actual wrestler in it
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 08:44
|
|
|
fatherofmustard posted:Shane has had good matches like his Kurt Angle one. Jeff Jarrett's cocaine brawl with Angle was way better
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 08:52
|
|
|
I was thinking about Zack Ryder the other day, as is my want, and how WWE pissed on him constantly and the reasons they did so. It got me thinking about the opposite. When is the most recent instance where WWE rewarded someone for getting themselves over?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 08:57
|
|
|
you could argue becky lynch if you assume that wwe is just really stupid and any of the things they did to place obstacles in her way were not intentional. like at least they did not take her off tv and whatnot
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 08:59
|
|
|
Kofi Kingston, maybe? If we discount the ignominious end of his reign of course.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 09:02
|
|
|
Kofi had been buried by the booking so long him having the belt at all was a joke. None of that is his fault, of course.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 09:48
|
|
|
What ever happened to Michael Shane? I feel like I remember enjoying him in early TNA and I was always surprised he didn't have a solid foot in the door of being a bigger name since Shawn Michaels is his cousin.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 13:41
|
|
|
I don't think he was very good in the end. Like he wasn't bad but he was generally outclassed by his TNA contemporaries like AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Low Ki, Kazarian, Chris Sabin, Amazing Red, Petey Williams, etc. I've always been a little surprised he didn't get a developmental deal with WWE given him kind of fitting their mold and the HBK connection. But I also always got the impression the HBK relationship was strained. VVV I think its as simple as "he was no HBK". It set a standard for the guy that he wasn't up to. That combined with him being overshadowed by the talent in the X Division made him an also ran.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:04
|
|
|
It's strange but I feel like being Shawn's cousin wss actually be a hindrance to him, but I can't remember why.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:04
|
|
|
Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:It's strange but I feel like being Shawn's cousin wss actually be a hindrance to him, but I can't remember why. TNA never shut up about it. Which made them look bush league as gently caress since mentioning that would only be relevant if he was on Shawn's level (he wasn't), or if HBK was going to be in TNA (not a hope in hell of that happening). ROH was guilty of this too, but they realized quicker than TNA that they had more engaging talent that the crowd wanted to see, and unlike TNA, weren't trying to compete with Vince. So if they wanted Joe to murder everything that moves for 600 days, it was fine. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jun 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:09
|
|
|
I mean Joe murdered everyone that moved in TNA for about the same time. Everyone basically knew what to do with Joe at some point or another. Except WWE.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:17
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I mean Joe murdered everyone that moved in TNA for about the same time. They got cold feet when it mattered with Joe. He could have carried their Heavyweight division for a decade, instead he became wrestling Winnie the Pooh, then a bad Kano ripoff with a wang on his face.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:29
|
|
|
They definitely never quite knew what to do with him once his undefeated streak was over. They basically knew he and AJ Styles were the foundation blocks they should be building on but just never were able to fully commit to it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:35
|
|
|
Samoa Joe murdering the Main Event Mafia for weeks only to join them later is peak Russo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:40
|
|
|
The whole Frontline/Main Event Mafia is really the epitome of TNA/wrestling's issues. Starts as the arrogant stars from other places uniting because they're bitter they've been getting beat by AJ and Joe. AJ and Joe lead the "Frontline" with a bunch of TNA midcarders stepping up to watch their backs. All those midcarders disappear. Rhino and the Dudley Boyz join the Frontline. Joe joins the Mafia. Just a complete disconnect from how the story started and where it wound up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:45
|
|
|
What are some good endings to a good major title reign? Bryan at WrestleMania 30 was amazing but the reign itself was a wet fart, and I guess Kofi's did too? A heel finally losing the title after months of cheating is great but what about the face that finally overcomes the odds? I don't know if it says more about me or the industry that I can't think of a good run that didn't end with a splat.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:53
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:What are some good endings to a good major title reign? Bryan at WrestleMania 30 was amazing but the reign itself was a wet fart, and I guess Kofi's did too? A heel finally losing the title after months of cheating is great but what about the face that finally overcomes the odds? I don't know if it says more about me or the industry that I can't think of a good run that didn't end with a splat. Okada ended his record-breaking reign with arguably the greatest match of all time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:58
|
|
|
Both of Okada’s last two reigns. But then again Okada isn’t a heel or face per se, he’s just Okada.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 14:59
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:They definitely never quite knew what to do with him once his undefeated streak was over. They basically knew he and AJ Styles were the foundation blocks they should be building on but just never were able to fully commit to it. When did the Joe/Steiner feud start in relation to his streak? I remember Steiner's nonsense was funny, but it helped no one (except maybe Petey? I thought that was really fun, but I didn't watch enough TNA to know if it was worthwhile to him). I just remember cringing when Steiner did a pre-match promo against Joe, ending with "Now get your fat rear end out here!". Like, how would it help the company's top face to be called a fat rear end? Admiral Joeslop posted:What are some good endings to a good major title reign? Bryan at WrestleMania 30 was amazing but the reign itself was a wet fart, and I guess Kofi's did too? A heel finally losing the title after months of cheating is great but what about the face that finally overcomes the odds? I don't know if it says more about me or the industry that I can't think of a good run that didn't end with a splat. I wanted to say Bret beating Piper, but Piper was only champ for like 3 months. Ditto for Bulldog beating Bret.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 15:14
|
|
|
Flair beating Vader st Starrcade, maybe
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 15:21
|
|
|
Red posted:When did the Joe/Steiner feud start in relation to his streak? I remember Steiner's nonsense was funny, but it helped no one (except maybe Petey? I thought that was really fun, but I didn't watch enough TNA to know if it was worthwhile to him). I just remember cringing when Steiner did a pre-match promo against Joe, ending with "Now get your fat rear end out here!". Like, how would it help the company's top face to be called a fat rear end? I think Joe went against Steiner 3 times. Once on his way up from X Division to Main Eventer, once when he was champ and running over everyone, and then in the Frontline/Mafia thing. The "he's fat" came in the last one. The "Steiner Math" thing came during Joe's title run, I think. I'm not much of a fan of Steiner myself in part for the same reason. He can be funny when he's not being disgusting but like, I'm not sure who gets helped by him. Except Little Petey Pump. That was magic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 15:23
|
|
|
Randaconda posted:Flair beating Vader st Starrcade, maybe Was that the one where they had clips of Flair solemnly saying goodbye to his family? STAC Goat posted:That meme "he's fat" promo I believe was a Main Event Mafia one so that was well after Joe's streak and World Title reign were over. By like years. Didn't he show up at Survivor Series and destroy Nowinski and Matt Hardy, did a few pushups, then just disappear again for a few months before the HHH disaster? His entire WWF run was just absolute trash.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 15:28
|
|
|
Red posted:Was that the one where they had clips of Flair solemnly saying goodbye to his family? Yeah, the build-up and the match both loving owned
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 15:35
|
|
|
Randaconda posted:Yeah, the build-up and the match both loving owned Japan: Look at Vader, he's a huge unstoppable monster, and it's a huge deal when he loses WCW: Look at Vader, he's a huge unstoppable monster, and it's a huge deal when he loses WWF: Vader, after losing to Kane by being hit by a big wrench: "I ain't nothin' but a piece of poo poo, a BIG FAT PIECE OF poo poo!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 15:46
|
|
|
Red posted:Didn't he show up at Survivor Series and destroy Nowinski and Matt Hardy, did a few pushups, then just disappear again for a few months before the HHH disaster? His entire WWF run was just absolute trash. The angle where he was brought in had Raw GM Eric Bischoff and Smackdown GM Stephanie McMahon get into a bidding war over him. Stephanie, who had been a face ever since taking on the GM role, suddenly started flirting with a heel turn because... she had PMS! Steiner's inclination was to go with Smackdown because he thought Stephanie would have sex with him. When this didn't happen, he firstly threatened to rape her in front of thousands of seagull-popping* fans, then he went with Bischoff to Raw instead, apparently giving Stephanie her comeuppance for being a woman. Man, never mind Steiner, 2002 in general was a rough year. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkhL1JuUaDE EDIT: Whilst considering his brand options, Steiner also took the opportunity to grab Nidia's rear end a few times. He was the face in all this. Hedgehog Pie fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jun 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 17:22
|
|
|
Red posted:Japan: Look at Vader, he's a huge unstoppable monster, and it's a huge deal when he loses They had buried Vader long before that. His first angle was laying out Gorilla Monsoon and it was pretty awesome. He should have won the title at Summerslam 96 but Michaels threw a fit and had a tantrum during the match. They never really got behind Vader after that and he was used to put over guys like Sid and turned into a midcarder. I think injuries and their perception of his weight was the reason why. By the time he feuded with Kane in 98 he was barely being used and when he was it was in a low midcard capacity.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 17:34
|
|
|
Hedgehog Pie posted:The angle where he was brought in had Raw GM Eric Bischoff and Smackdown GM Stephanie McMahon get into a bidding war over him. Stephanie, who had been a face ever since taking on the GM role, suddenly started flirting with a heel turn because... she had PMS! Steiner's inclination was to go with Smackdown because he thought Stephanie would have sex with him. When this didn't happen, he firstly threatened to rape her in front of thousands of seagull-popping* fans, then he went with Bischoff to Raw instead, apparently giving Stephanie her comeuppance for being a woman. Steiner wasn't 100% healthy, which is why the buildup to his "match" with HHH consisted of armwrestling, pushup contests, and a posedown (and probably other stuff, like a bake-off or game of HORSE or some poo poo).  So the crowd poo poo all over their match, where Steiner was completely done about 2 minutes in. So, naturally, they had a rematch a month later. That was bad enough he didn't get on to WrestleMania.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 17:42
|
|
|
CopywrightMMXI posted:They had buried Vader long before that. His first angle was laying out Gorilla Monsoon and it was pretty awesome. He should have won the title at Summerslam 96 but Michaels threw a fit and had a tantrum during the match. They never really got behind Vader after that and he was used to put over guys like Sid and turned into a midcarder. I think injuries and their perception of his weight was the reason why. By the time he feuded with Kane in 98 he was barely being used and when he was it was in a low midcard capacity. Oh, absolutely. His 'final four' match was amazing, so they *could* use him right now and then, but I think his 'piece of poo poo' thing kind of summarizes his WWF career.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 17:43
|
|
|
Granted, didn't Vader spend his last few months in WCW just basically losing to Hogan? In a way that makes WWF's misuse of him even worse but still.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 17:45
|
|
|
 This is the best moment of Vader's WWF run.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 17:54
|
|
|
Hedgehog Pie posted:The angle where he was brought in had Raw GM Eric Bischoff and Smackdown GM Stephanie McMahon get into a bidding war over him. Stephanie, who had been a face ever since taking on the GM role, suddenly started flirting with a heel turn because... she had PMS! Steiner's inclination was to go with Smackdown because he thought Stephanie would have sex with him. When this didn't happen, he firstly threatened to rape her in front of thousands of seagull-popping* fans, then he went with Bischoff to Raw instead, apparently giving Stephanie her comeuppance for being a woman. This is all exactly the type of behavior you’d expect from a big bad booty daddy
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 18:08
|
|
|
Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:
Counter point: 
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 18:12
|
|
|
The Flair-Vader match for Starrcade 93 was so good. The entire build-up was basically just "Yep, Flair is going to die". Originally the main event was going to be Vader vs Sid Vicious, but Sid got in that fight with Arn and got himself fired so they had to figure something else out and it became a Title vs Career match with Flair instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG116I6loT0 MrBling fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 18:36
|
|
|
Red posted:Steiner wasn't 100% healthy, which is why the buildup to his "match" with HHH consisted of armwrestling, pushup contests, and a posedown (and probably other stuff, like a bake-off or game of HORSE or some poo poo). I've heard one take on that match being "So HHH you think you're the next incarnation of Ric Flair. Ric Flair could have a 4* match with a broomstick. Here's your broomstick, go work your Flair magic. Or you can poo poo up the room and throw him under the bus, that's cool too.' But in a rare bit of HHH defense from me I have to say 'A broom isn't 250lbs of pissed off dead weight dropping you on your goddamn head.'
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 20:56
|
|
|
ChrisBTY posted:I've heard one take on that match being "So HHH you think you're the next incarnation of Ric Flair. Ric Flair could have a 4* match with a broomstick. Here's your broomstick, go work your Flair magic. Or you can poo poo up the room and throw him under the bus, that's cool too.' Nah, gently caress Trips, they wanted the match to go about 8 minutes originally, and he was like "Lol I can drag a good match out of him!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 21:02
|
|
|
Randaconda posted:Nah, gently caress Trips, they wanted the match to go about 8 minutes originally, and he was like "Lol I can drag a good match out of him!" I have no idea at all why I watched the years where HHH, JBL, Orton, and Cena were champion. I mean, there was Benoit/Angle/Lesnar/Eddie/Batista peppered in there, but still. Nothing is ever going to match the months of Austin and Hart just destroying each other.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 21:31
|
|
|
Triple H being the kind of man he is (wasn't his "B+ player" remark to Daniel Bryan an obscure reference to something Dave Meltzer had said about him literally over a decade earlier?), I can totally believe that he had been reading all sorts of comments throughout 2002 about how he was only a fraction of the wrestler he was before his quad injury, hence he would pitch all these ridiculous ideas like having a 20-minute barn-burner with 2003 Scott Steiner. On the same card that had Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit in their primes no less! Then when it fails it can be the other guy's fault, because he is that kind of person too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 21:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 16:10 |
|
|
Red posted:I have no idea at all why I watched the years where HHH, JBL, Orton, and Cena were champion. I mean, there was Benoit/Angle/Lesnar/Eddie/Batista peppered in there, but still. the worst part was Cena not really improving for an entire loving decade
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2020 21:39
|
|