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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Lol the left is going to be ignored and shunned for the next 8 years and global warming will kill us all
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Jun 17, 2020 11:29
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 18:18 |
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perceptions on civil unrest can shift extremely quickly and very dramatically as circumstances change. all you need is for one protest to get properly out of hand and produce some sympathetic victims and you've got the ball rolling - this is the main reason why i keep saying that events, not campaigns are going to decide this election; biden's target demographic is very skittish indeed when it comes to civil unrest getting out of hand i suspect that this is also why biden hasn't really committed to anything in reaction to these policies - the campaign is worried about a big reversal of attitudes
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Jun 17, 2020 11:47
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V. Illych L. posted:perceptions on civil unrest can shift extremely quickly and very dramatically as circumstances change. all you need is for one protest to get properly out of hand and produce some sympathetic victims and you've got the ball rolling - this is the main reason why i keep saying that events, not campaigns are going to decide this election; biden's target demographic is very skittish indeed when it comes to civil unrest getting out of hand The support for these protests has been unprecedented and overwhelming so far. I absolutely do take your point re the squishiness of white moderates when it comes to being mildly inconvenienced in any way, but I've seen nothing to suggest that the current largely peaceful protests continuing throughout the summer would be anything other than bad for Trump and therefore good for Biden. If we do see an incident that produces a sympathetic victim then obviously things could change, but it does seem like so far not only have the protesters been demonstrably peaceful but that the police are absolutely determined to alienate as many people as possible Chinese Gordon fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 11:58
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Civil unrest has already gone out of hand, and it swung public sentiment hard against Trump. If Biden's coalition was fragile along the subject of race, it would've ruptured already.
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Jun 17, 2020 12:02
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nah there hasn't yet been an instance of a BLM protest leading to the molestation of a photogenic white woman or something, it's been pretty tame thus far with the most dangerous being relatively isolated cases of property damage. if the protests remain disciplined and orderly, i agree that it's good for biden, but the state has ways to make protests stop being orderly absent strong organisation on the ground, which seems to be mostly absent from where i'm sitting
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Jun 17, 2020 12:11
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the present strategy of mainly peaceful protest punctuated by the occasional and contingent escalation into attacks on commercial property seems to be very effective at channeling frustration while maintaining popular support. i did not expect this, and so my sense of where white america's pain threshold is might very well be off, but it is *somewhere* and if it turns it's going to turn hard
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Jun 17, 2020 12:15
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V. Illych L. posted:nah there hasn't yet been an instance of a BLM protest leading to the molestation of a photogenic white woman or something, it's been pretty tame thus far with the most dangerous being relatively isolated cases of property damage. if the protests remain disciplined and orderly, i agree that it's good for biden, but the state has ways to make protests stop being orderly absent strong organisation on the ground, which seems to be mostly absent from where i'm sitting The thing is the police have already tried this and it has not worked. The proliferation of phones and video cameras makes it very very hard for the cops to claim an entirely unprovoked gassing/shooting was in fact a response to drug crazed Antifa Supersoliders ripping brave police officers limb from limb. That poo poo can easily be disproved now, which I think is a big reason why these protests have seen such a massive level of support.
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Jun 17, 2020 12:21
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Goddamn!   https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1273208998028812290
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Jun 17, 2020 12:24
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V. Illych L. posted:nah there hasn't yet been an instance of a BLM protest leading to the molestation of a photogenic white woman or something This feels like a really poor choice of words, I don't think we needed to get this specific or speculative about things that haven't happened, and probably won't happen.
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Jun 17, 2020 12:30
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Raenir Salazar posted:This feels like a really poor choice of words, I don't think we needed to get this specific or speculative about things that haven't happened, and probably won't happen. evidently we did, since you didn't understand what i meant when i was more euphemistic Chinese Gordon posted:The thing is the police have already tried this and it has not worked. The proliferation of phones and video cameras makes it very very hard for the cops to claim an entirely unprovoked gassing/shooting was in fact a response to drug crazed Antifa Supersoliders ripping brave police officers limb from limb. That poo poo can easily be disproved now, which I think is a big reason why these protests have seen such a massive level of support. there's a long and storied history of using undercover provocateurs to justify a crackdown. american police seems to have gotten used to impunity enough that they've forgotten, but they will relearn eventually. if that's going to have an impact on the presidential election is unclear, but it absolutely cannot be ruled out
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Jun 17, 2020 12:48
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V. Illych L. posted:evidently we did, since you didn't understand what i meant when i was more euphemistic That's not really what's at issue here.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:05
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V. Illych L. posted:evidently we did, since you didn't understand what i meant when i was more euphemistic A boogaloo boy just arrested for killing two cops in attempt to do exactly that, so it isn't working to well.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:09
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a nazi psycho taking matters into his own hands is not the same as actual police agent provocateurs
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Jun 17, 2020 13:12
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Liberals that willingly ally themselves with never-Trumpers to stymie the left will definitely put America back on the right path.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:35
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So far it seems the police-adjacent libs or full-on cops who have infiltrated have mostly been leading people into kettles where they get horribly beaten or gassed, so it seems like the cops aren't smart enough to rile up the crowds to give themselves a reason. They seem to think the crowds existing is itself a reason and they're getting confused when people criticize them for whipping out a baton and going to town on people they lead into a trap. The average cop is not all that bright, fortunately.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:46
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COVID-19 posted:Liberals that willingly ally themselves with never-Trumpers to stymie the left will definitely put America back on the right path. I'm unsure how admiring a well-made political ad is "Liberals that willingly ally themselves with never-Trumpers".
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Jun 17, 2020 14:49
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The Lincoln project based on their tweets seem to be doing good work, and perhaps they may be convinced to be more liberal over time. Much like how we want blue collar workers to also be less conservative over time? I don't see any difference here.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:50
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Wicked Them Beats posted:So far it seems the police-adjacent libs or full-on cops who have infiltrated have mostly been leading people into kettles where they get horribly beaten or gassed, so it seems like the cops aren't smart enough to rile up the crowds to give themselves a reason. They seem to think the crowds existing is itself a reason and they're getting confused when people criticize them for whipping out a baton and going to town on people they lead into a trap. my point is that eventually they'll learn. it might be too early or too late for it to matter much electorally, but it's happening
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Jun 17, 2020 14:55
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:I'm unsure how admiring a well-made political ad is "Liberals that willingly ally themselves with never-Trumpers". I have bad news about the Biden campaign’s plans to attract neo-cons and never-Trumpers. Also, do you really fall that easily for propaganda? Good lord, no wonder why so many inept people go into political consulting. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 17, 2020 14:58
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The Lincoln Project are a bunch of Bush admin/Corporate GOP ghouls who are absolutely irredeemable shitheads and should not be praised or encouraged to express any of their opinions beyond 'Trump bad'. Their ads are very effective though and if they damage Trump then that is good.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:58
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Raenir Salazar posted:The Lincoln project based on their tweets seem to be doing good work, and perhaps they may be convinced to be more liberal over time. Much like how we want blue collar workers to also be less conservative over time? I don't see any difference here. You can't be this naive. No, they won't decide that higher taxes are good now based on their support for a Dem candidate who opposes higher taxes. Here's a quote from their website: quote:Defeat President Trump and Trumpism at the ballot box. They're here to defeat the aberration they're calling Trumpism, which in their minds is fully and 1000% divorced from their pragmatic conservative ideals. Once Trump is gone they'll be right back to calling out the tax-and-spend liberal baby killers. V. Illych L. posted:my point is that eventually they'll learn. it might be too early or too late for it to matter much electorally, but it's happening It's a valid concern. My bigger concern is all of the libs who turned out to try and defang the protests. There's always the concern of about going too far and "justifying" a crackdown, but I'm worried about the protests going the other way, being so peaceful and undisruptive that they never quite trigger the brutality you need to happen for comfortable white moderates to agree that reforms need to be done.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:00
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Chinese Gordon posted:and if they damage Trump then that is good. big "if". Feel like if Trump is gonna lose, it's gonna happen whether this little conscience-laundering project puts out good ads or not.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:02
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Maybe after Biden’s failed administration more people will realize that never-Trumpers and standard Democrats are pretty much going after the same thing and they’ll finally accept an actual leftist candidate that can solve the problems we have and not kick the can down the road pfffthahahahahahs sorry I couldn’t finish, it’s just too depressing. It’s almost like the neocons know that the best way to maintain white supremacist capitalist hegemony is through the Democratic Party 
COVID-19 fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 15:05
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COVID-19 posted:Maybe after Biden’s failed administration more people will realize that never-Trumpers and standard Democrats are pretty much going after the same thing and they’ll finally accept an actual leftist candidate that can solve the problems we have and not kick the can down the road pfffthahahahahahs sorry I couldn’t finish, it’s just too depressing. Irreparable damage was done to my party affiliation during the Obama years. Particularly, it was the 2 years of super majority the Democrats had. They could have passed literally anything, and simply chose not to. At that point, it became obvious that progress was impossible because the Democrats specifically wanted stasis, not progress. Still, I would fight with family members and friends that actually, yes, Obama did good things. It wasn't until 2016 that my faith in the party was summarily shattered. I went into the voting booth knowing that I was sacrificing my values and morality in order to empower someone I didn't believe in to beat the worst candidate in American history. And they lost. So, a Biden presidency will further weaken party loyalty, but maybe it will take another catastrophic failure of the Democratic party to destroy it forever. Who knows.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:13
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Wicked Them Beats posted:It's a valid concern. My bigger concern is all of the libs who turned out to try and defang the protests. There is also a positive use of privilege. I've seen white girls hang black lives matters posters from statues. They're using the privilege of that comes with their white bodies in order to do something that black girls would have potentially been beaten or worse for, but the product is still visibility and disruption. Also what does the necessary brutality you're looking for mean?
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Jun 17, 2020 15:15
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Raenir Salazar posted:The Lincoln project based on their tweets seem to be doing good work, and perhaps they may be convinced to be more liberal over time. Much like how we want blue collar workers to also be less conservative over time? I don't see any difference here. lmao at neocons being good in any way.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:19
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COVID-19 posted:I have bad news about the Biden campaign’s plans to attract neo-cons and never-Trumpers. Also, do you really fall that easily for propaganda? Good lord, no wonder why so many inept people go into political consulting. Again with the ad hominems. Again: how is admiring a well-made political ad equivalent to people making an active alliance with neoconservatives and never-Trumpers?
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Jun 17, 2020 15:19
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Irreparable damage was done to my party affiliation during the Obama years. Particularly, it was the 2 years of super majority the Democrats had. They could have passed literally anything, and simply chose not to. At that point, it became obvious that progress was impossible because the Democrats specifically wanted stasis, not progress. Still, I would fight with family members and friends that actually, yes, Obama did good things. It wasn't until 2016 that my faith in the party was summarily shattered. I went into the voting booth knowing that I was sacrificing my values and morality in order to empower someone I didn't believe in to beat the worst candidate in American history. And they lost. Yup, we are literally witnessing a re-arrangement of the parties. The Republicans started withdrawing from “globalism”, free-trade, war and austerity while the Democrats embraced what the Republicans used to stand for back around 2002-2008. This simple fact explains why so many idiots like Jennifer Rubin and those Lincoln Project morons are all suddenly happily voting for the Dems. The next few years are going to be a blast.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:21
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:Again with the ad hominems. Again: how is admiring a well-made political ad equivalent to people making an active alliance with neoconservatives and never-Trumpers? You only think it’s well-made because you earnestly believe Trump is an aberration and once he’s gone things will be magically fixed.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:23
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COVID-19 posted:You only think it’s well-made because you earnestly believe Trump is an aberration and once he’s gone things will he magically fixed. I do not actually believe this. I don't even believe anything CLOSE to this. The fact that you think I do tells me all I need to know about you.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:24
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:I do not actually believe this. I don't even believe anything CLOSE to this. The fact that you think I do tells me all I need to know about you. So you’re not voting for Biden then? 
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Jun 17, 2020 15:26
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Irreparable damage was done to my party affiliation during the Obama years. Particularly, it was the 2 years of super majority the Democrats had. They could have passed literally anything, and simply chose not to. At that point, it became obvious that progress was impossible because the Democrats specifically wanted stasis, not progress. Still, I would fight with family members and friends that actually, yes, Obama did good things. It wasn't until 2016 that my faith in the party was summarily shattered. I went into the voting booth knowing that I was sacrificing my values and morality in order to empower someone I didn't believe in to beat the worst candidate in American history. And they lost. I'm not gonna replicate the numbers myself, but from wikipedia "the majority was only filibuster proof for a period of 72 working days while the Senate was actually in session. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress I think there are quite a few missteps that were made during that period, but they definitely could not have "literally passed anything" and saying they had a super majority for 2 years is incorrect.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:26
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plogo posted:I'm not gonna replicate the numbers myself, but from wikipedia "the majority was only filibuster proof for a period of 72 working days while the Senate was actually in session. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress If the big pile of poo poo we got from 8 years of Obama the best the Dems can do, I can’t wait to see what Biden will bring to the table.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:28
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COVID-19 posted:So you’re not voting for Biden then? Yes, I am. He's the best of two bad options and the only option that results in the country being rid of Donald Trump. The fact that you have decided, based on this, that I believe Donald Trump is the SOLE problem with the Republican Party and that his removal will make everything better tells me everything I need to know about you. Why am I not allowed to believe both of these things at the same time? They're not mutually exclusive. I'm confused as to why you think they are.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:29
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COVID-19 posted:If the big pile of poo poo we got from 8 years of Obama the best the Dems can do, I can’t wait to see what Biden will bring to the table. How much of that is based on an inaccurate understanding of what actually happened? If you are under the illusion that the dems had a super majority for 2 years you should revisit that period of congressional politics.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:32
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plogo posted:I'm not gonna replicate the numbers myself, but from wikipedia "the majority was only filibuster proof for a period of 72 working days while the Senate was actually in session. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress FDR got an enormous amount of poo poo done in his first 100 days, which is only (let me see here, (100/7)*5) 71.4 working days. This is the exact poo poo that I'm talking about. This sort of unwavering faith in the Democratic party cannot be sustained indefinitely. You can't demand voters not to question literally everything forever. Eventually, a very severe problem will effect an individual voter, and the Democrats will fumble it. For Obama, millions of people lost their homes, and millions more are unable to afford the rising healthcare costs that the ACA mandated. Those voter loyalties are lost forever. And it's just a matter of time until climate change or some other unforeseen issue shits on enough people that they also drop out of electoral politics.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:34
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plogo posted:How much of that is based on an inaccurate understanding of what actually happened? If you are under the illusion that the dems had a super majority for 2 years you should revisit that period of congressional politics. Ah yes, clearly those Republicans simply outsmarted us and that’s why we couldn’t do anything. But if you vote for the Dems this time that totally won’t happen again. Fritz Coldcockin posted:Yes, I am. He's the best of two bad options and the only option that results in the country being rid of Donald Trump. So in order to get rid of Trump, you’re going to go back to the guys that made Trump possible. A ballsy move, I must admit.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:35
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plogo posted:I'm not gonna replicate the numbers myself, but from wikipedia "the majority was only filibuster proof for a period of 72 working days while the Senate was actually in session. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress They should have iced the filibuster, but you probably only had 40 votes for that at the time, and Obama was way too decorum-obsessed to ever even consider it. Timeless Appeal posted:Also what does the necessary brutality you're looking for mean? If the cops weren't brutalizing people, publicly and on camera, there would be no incentive for change. If the cops aren't attacking your protest, it's only a matter of time before it's co-opted by local politicians taking a knee and chanting "I Can't Breathe" before going back to their six-figure gigs and upping the police budget a few more percent. You need the pigs, on camera, smashing the skull of some kid whose only crime was being in the vicinity of someone else who threw an empty water bottle. Without that blood being spilled your protest will accomplish about as much as the Women's March did, which is approximately jack and poo poo. Fully peaceful, non-disruptive protests can be ignored and memory-holed, and if the police get smart about avoiding conflict and only intervening when actually necessary, like if people are lighting fires or something, then all of the usual suspects will line up to claim that George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and on and on and on are just the results of a "few bad apples." That's harder to claim when there's active war in the streets and only one side has any guns.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:35
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COVID-19 posted:Ah yes, clearly those Republicans simply outsmarted us and that’s why we couldn’t do anything. But if you vote for the Dems this time that totally won’t happen again. I mean the republicans were only able to pass one bill through reconciliation because they couldn't get it together to pass something on health care, disagreement within caucuses when they have slim majorities is endemic to democracies.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:37
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COVID-19 posted:So in order to get rid of Trump, you’re going to go back to the guys that made Trump possible. A ballsy move, I must admit. The Lincoln Project people aren't running for President, Joe Biden is. Last I checked, Joe Biden did not vote for Trump or make him possible in any way. I'm very confused now, I have to say. Are you saying that we shouldn't attempt to put Democrats back in power because it'll just result in more Republicans in four years? Is this a tacit admission that you'd prefer four more years of Trump? Help me out here. I certainly understand wishing that Joe Biden wasn't the nominee this time out; Lord knows I wish that myself pretty much every day--but there wasn't anyone in the Democratic field I wouldn't prefer over four more years of what we currently have. Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 15:37
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